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[bertfallen]

bertfallen

Re: Evolution

So then, Possum, you seem to want evidence to be proven, you don't believe the evolution story. So, Facts and evidence on the Creation story please .

[Vash]

Vash

Re: Evolution

Lets look at religions, each religion has their own idea and concept of life, one can't really disprove one religion or another, because its a personal belief. Maybe God did create everyone, or maybe there was some form of evolution that occurred.

Evidence lacks in both evolution and religious based theories. Being evolution coincides with scinece related topics its taught in school. We have been misinformed in school, and later corrected in life on science subjects. Since this is the most popular of the science concepts in relation to this theory, I don't see a problem with teaching it in science classes. Science isn't all facts, the majority of it is theories and concepts we've developed based on what we know. Now you could say the same about religion, however there is no basis of knowlege of what is true and not true in religious aspects, since there is so many religions.

Whose to say that both concepts are incorrect, and we just originally came from the stars? Any of the three could easily be correct. There is no way to disprove religious beliefs, with the exception of saying 'thats just too farfetched', however thats not really a scientific way of disproving a concept.

I don't know if I believe we evolved from things, however I do believe in genetic links between similar species. They do exist.

I'd enjoy seeing the link between humans and daises.  

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Dumb_Ass]

Dumb_Ass

Re: Evolution

Noone knows, really. While you can't prove that evolution exists, or existed, you can't prove that God exists or existed. And there's so many religions, too. It's all a guessing game, really. That's just my opinion, though. Don't jump all over me and start dry humping. D:

[2awesome4apossum]

2awesome4apossum

Re: Evolution

I don't have a problem with teaching evolution in science classes either, vash.

So then, Possum, you seem to want evidence to be proven, you don't believe the evolution story. So, Facts and evidence on the Creation story please .

Who said (apart from pre-concieved knowledge) that I believe in the creation story?  What if I didn't?  This topic is about evolution, not about creationism.  Because there are many creationist theories (for lack of a better word... you can't call creationism a theory, only an idea, much like evolution, for lack of evidence).  To group them all into one is simple-minded, in my opinion.

So then, where do the changes in evolution come from, if not natural selection?

The point is that evolution doesn't exist and that natural selection, while it is an accepted theory, doesn't necessarily mean that evolution is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

I mean specific examples.  I've looked through a few of those... and they all seemed to be their own species, no?  It's hard to find anything leading up to them.  Understand what I'm saying or do I need to be more clear?

And through your own example, you can see that they are directly related. Are you paying attention?

In order for evolution to be true, natural selection has to be true.  But natural selection being true doesn't make evolution true.

[Easy_D]

Easy_D

Re: Evolution

You know. You seem hellbent on denying evolution as a fact. Why the hell did you even make this thread? It's not like anything will ever change your views, no matter how painfully obvious it is. So I declare this a troll-topic and add the following image.

I </3 Sol

[CoNfUsEd_GaMeR]

CoNfUsEd_GaMeR

Re: Evolution

mmmm, 2 random thoughts on it all:

Genetic links between species; perhaps I'm mistaken on what that means exactly, but surely a designer is likely to design many different things with similarities, ie a God making life forms. Just think of the way the Zelda games rehash the same old stories all the time lol.

Secondly, the age of the Earth is immense, how does this support evo though? creation story involves a number of days yes, but "day" in itself doesn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It is merely a period of time - think "holiday", the Bible here could well mean unspecified amounts of time ...unless you mean the huge amount of time we're dealing with here presents many more opportunities for mutation.

Och vi som väntar på något gott vi väntar alltid för länge jag vet, jag vet
men ett liv med låga krav är som sommar utan sol och vinter utan snö
Och vem vill leva så

• 

[Behemoth5]

Behemoth5

Re: Evolution

I'd enjoy seeing the link between humans and daises.  

After a long, exhausting research period, I have come up emptyhanded. My apologies.

Behe's Kirby Factory

I ♥ Sol

• 

[bertfallen]

bertfallen

Re: Evolution

So then, Possum, you seem to want evidence to be proven, you don't believe the evolution story. So, Facts and evidence on the Creation story please .

Who said (apart from pre-concieved knowledge) that I believe in the creation story?  What if I didn't?  This topic is about evolution, not about creationism.  Because there are many creationist theories (for lack of a better word... you can't call creationism a theory, only an idea, much like evolution, for lack of evidence).  To group them all into one is simple-minded, in my opinion.

I used the Wrong Word anyway, Instead of "Story" Which would assume its fake, I really should of used Theory, simply because its not proven yet.

And, really I based that upon the fact I assumed you didn't believe in Evolution so you must of believed in the Creation Theory. I find the Creation Theory way too 'Random' to be true.

Secondly, the age of the Earth is immense, how does this support evo though? creation story involves a number of days yes, but "day" in itself doesn't necessarily mean 24 hours. It is merely a period of time - think "holiday", the Bible here could well mean unspecified amounts of time ...unless you mean the huge amount of time we're dealing with here presents many more opportunities for mutation.

Well does it not state he worked everyday of the week bar Sunday? I mean I know Sundays are slow, but fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: Evolution

Possum, I gave you a specific example that you missed (unless you meant fossils, then you win lol).  May I also add the ceolecanth to my argument?

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Evolution

Not getting involved in this much, because some of the arguments on both sides are so flipping weak. Maybe when I find some time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

I mean specific examples.  I've looked through a few of those... and they all seemed to be their own species, no?  It's hard to find anything leading up to them.  Understand what I'm saying or do I need to be more clear?

No, none of them are their "own species". Arguably, if you ditch the definition of a species as individuals that are able to breed to produce fertile young (with this definition dropped, tigers and lions become seperate species) and rely more on specific characteristics (as well as, to an extent, breeding ability) then none of those on their are in the same species.

And I can hardly see how you can call these two - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakicetus and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosaurus - anything close to being the same species. And, yet, there they are - a whale ancestor and a prehistoric whale.

[a Hint of Lime]

a Hint of Lime

Re: Evolution

Possum, don't you think that the next logical step after Natural Selection would be evolution?  If you believe in natural selection, that means that you believe that genes and DNA can change in small amounts, and the good changes stay, right?  Well, given a large amount of time, the small changes add up, right?  And you do believe in dinosaurs, so you know that the earth has been around for a long time.  Therefore, Natural Selection over a long period of time would logically lead to evolution... 

I don't understand the whole religion vs evolution thing either.  Couldn't some supreme being be behind evolution or natural selection?  I'm no athiest (anymore), but I still believe in evolution 100%.

[TCGamer]

TCGamer

Re: Evolution

I don't understand the whole religion vs evolution thing either.  Couldn't some supreme being be behind evolution or natural selection?  I'm no athiest (anymore), but I still believe in evolution 100%.

Indeed, just because you believe in God doesn't mean you should throw all ideas which the church doesn't like out of the boat. Why couldn't God be behind the evolution and natural selection?

[dehvknull]

dehvknull

Re: Evolution

I don't "believe" in evolution, but it's the best scientific theory we've got. One of the biggest problems with mainstream science today is that scientists and others get almost religious about their ideas. It's part of human nature and has been around for a long time, but this really needs to change. Religion is very similar in that it is part of human nature, but shouldn't exist (please don't angry about this, it's only my opinion).

[Swoftu]

Swoftu

Re: Evolution

Evidence lacks in both evolution and religious based theories.

Only in the latter. There is much more evidence for evolution than the people in this topic would have you think.

I'd enjoy seeing the link between humans and daises.

Well first you'd need to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back on the geologic column.

The point is that evolution doesn't exist and that natural selection, while it is an accepted theory, doesn't necessarily mean that evolution is true.

aaannnnnd this is where I tell you to gb2 science class. (no, not your mormon school, actual biology taught by a respected professor in the field. No, not Behe. he's an idiot.)

In order for evolution to be true, natural selection has to be true.  But natural selection being true doesn't make evolution true.

COMMON SENSE PLEASE. Just think that through a few times. Changes from natural selection -> changes accumulate over time -> Evolution.

You know. You seem hellbent on denying evolution as a fact. Why the hell did you even make this thread? It's not like anything will ever change your views, no matter how painfully obvious it is. So I declare this a troll-topic and add the following image.

This is a huge troll topic. Honestly. All he does is parrot the same phrase over and over "there is no evolution", even after you debunk all of his arguments. It happens all the time when we debate him. All he uses is denial and dodges questions.

Also, here's my picture contribution to this topic:

[Dascu]

Dascu

Re: Evolution

Eh, there's no reason why evolution theory and religious beliefs can't coexist (unless your religion strictly says that evolution is fake).

Possum's just be sceptic about evolution theory. However, I'm just upset that he is. I thought he'd be smarter than that. Scepticism is good, but come on, there's a vast majority of evidence supporting the evolution theory. Why not start doubting that George Bush is a girl? Really, move on. There is no conflict between science and religion, so stop trying to debunk one or the other.

And about the Global Warming thing, fraud or not, I don't care. I only noticed that temperatures are rising worldwide. A bit small now, but the effects are there. Sure, during time Earth's warmth has increased and decreased.
But all those gasses and all that pollution certainly can't be good for the planet. Global Warming is not about left versus right, it's about making people aware that pollution is harming our enviroment.

[Kleaver]

Kleaver

Re: Evolution

I hate people saying like 'OMG global warming is a natural thing so we shouldn't worry' - yeah right, like in the last 30 years the temperature can suddenly go up more than in 1000 years.

About evolution. It makes much more sense to me than creatism. Besides. Religion was just something invented by people to get an answer to their questions. And later just a tool to keep people in line. (Sorta like how Bush used terrorism to get his votes). I mean I don't have a problem with personal religion, that can give a person comfort and stuff.
But as soon as it starts to involve the pope or the idea of running a nation in a religious sense it's scary.

But yeah, evolution makes perfect sense. There is way, WAY more proof of that then there is of any God. And there always will be. If God really wanted people to follow his way. He'd show up once in a while.

[Moon_child]

Moon_child

Re: Evolution

I believe in God, I also believe that the Adam and Eva story and God created the world in 7 days (actually 6, 7th day he rested) are moralistic stories (don't ask me what the moral of the story 'God created the world in 7 days' is), and I do believe in evolution.

It's funny that you believe in God and evolution at the same time because these 2 things go straight against each other in any way that's possible!

If you haven't read much about it, that's probably why you still believe it.  Evolution by means of natural selection seems to make sense at first, and by all means doesn't disprove God in any way, shape or form, but once you get into how it would actually work if it was real... it's more abstract than the idea of trinity (which my religion actually doesn't believe in, either).

So you don't believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit are one?

@To all the people that believe in Evolution: You all say that Evolution is true and has been proven many times blablabla... But why the hell is it still called Evolution Theory?

@Dascu: It's pathetic to see you wanting 2awesome4apossum apologize to you! Because you're the one that should said "I'm sorry" to 2awesome4apossum since you're the the one that started being an ass against him, not he to you!

[Dascu]

Dascu

Re: Evolution

I believe in God, I also believe that the Adam and Eva story and God created the world in 7 days (actually 6, 7th day he rested) are moralistic stories (don't ask me what the moral of the story 'God created the world in 7 days' is), and I do believe in evolution.

It's funny that you believe in God and evolution at the same time because these 2 things go straight against each other in any way that's possible!

My religion teachers believe evolution. The priests here believe it. Even the POPE believes in Evolution. Evolution does NOT destroy religion in any way. If anything, you could say evolution is God's way how he created life. Evolution is a scientific supported theory to explain how life changed over time into what we have now.

@To all the people that believe in Evolution: You all say that Evolution is true and has been proven many times blablabla... But why the hell is it still called Evolution Theory?

Because we don't pretend to be all-knowing !@#$%. If there's a better explanation, we can accept it, contrary to narrow-minded fools.

@Dascu: It's pathetic to see you wanting 2awesome4apossum apologize to you! Because you're the one that should said "I'm sorry" to 2awesome4apossum since you're the the one that started being an ass against him, not he to you!

1) You're trolling.
2) That topic has nothing to do with this one.

[TCGamer]

TCGamer

Re: Evolution

I believe in God, I also believe that the Adam and Eva story and God created the world in 7 days (actually 6, 7th day he rested) are moralistic stories (don't ask me what the moral of the story 'God created the world in 7 days' is), and I do believe in evolution.

It's funny that you believe in God and evolution at the same time because these 2 things go straight against each other in any way that's possible!

Why do they go straight against each other?  And who says I'm an Christian, Muslim or whatever? Maybe I just believe in God, but not in the way the religions interpreted it.

[dehvknull]

dehvknull

Re: Evolution

I believe in God, I also believe that the Adam and Eva story and God created the world in 7 days (actually 6, 7th day he rested) are moralistic stories (don't ask me what the moral of the story 'God created the world in 7 days' is), and I do believe in evolution.

It's funny that you believe in God and evolution at the same time because these 2 things go straight against each other in any way that's possible!

Why do they go straight against each other?  And who says I'm an Christian, Muslim or whatever? Maybe I just believe in God, but not in the way the religions interpreted it.

Wouldn't that make you a Deist. I'm an atheist, but I tend to think in Deistic ways. I don't believe there is any sort of god, but I think there probably is. I don't worship it (him wouldn't be an appropriate term here), though.

I hate people saying like 'OMG global warming is a natural thing so we shouldn't worry' - yeah right, like in the last 30 years the temperature can suddenly go up more than in 1000 years.

About evolution. It makes much more sense to me than creatism. Besides. Religion was just something invented by people to get an answer to their questions. And later just a tool to keep people in line. (Sorta like how Bush used terrorism to get his votes). I mean I don't have a problem with personal religion, that can give a person comfort and stuff.
But as soon as it starts to involve the pope or the idea of running a nation in a religious sense it's scary.

But yeah, evolution makes perfect sense. There is way, WAY more proof of that then there is of any God. And there always will be. If God really wanted people to follow his way. He'd show up once in a while.

I don't know whether global warming is caused by humans, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I believe in God, I also believe that the Adam and Eva story and God created the world in 7 days (actually 6, 7th day he rested) are moralistic stories (don't ask me what the moral of the story 'God created the world in 7 days' is), and I do believe in evolution.

It's funny that you believe in God and evolution at the same time because these 2 things go straight against each other in any way that's possible!

If you haven't read much about it, that's probably why you still believe it.  Evolution by means of natural selection seems to make sense at first, and by all means doesn't disprove God in any way, shape or form, but once you get into how it would actually work if it was real... it's more abstract than the idea of trinity (which my religion actually doesn't believe in, either).

So you don't believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit are one?

@To all the people that believe in Evolution: You all say that Evolution is true and has been proven many times blablabla... But why the hell is it still called Evolution Theory?

@Dascu: It's pathetic to see you wanting 2awesome4apossum apologize to you! Because you're the one that should said "I'm sorry" to 2awesome4apossum since you're the the one that started being an ass against him, not he to you!

Theory means more when speaking scientifically than it does when you are speaking casually. A "theory" in science requires a lot of evidence. A scientific hypothesis is more what you're thinking of. I have to say that the trinity is pure !@#$%. It makes no sense that 3 gods (even if they share the same "essence) count as one God. It's not even in the Bible anyway.