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[Mamoruanime]

Mamoruanime

Criticism without Construction

I'm bringing this up not as an admin, but as a long time ZFGCer (with the exception of the 1 year break); and I'm not posting this because I'm mad or anything in fact I'm in a good mood right now but I feel it needs to be mentioned (I noticed there was nothing on it before o.0)

Theres one major thing I've seen going on a lot lately, and its easy for anyone to do; and thats criticizing something on the forum without doing anything to help solve the problem. I lurk around the boards reading threads, and every now and again I see the same users complaining about the same issues, but it's usually very rudely mentioned, and no suggestions are made to help improve the issue. So I ask you; again, not as an admin, but as a ZFGCer- please, if you're going to criticize the way things are ran, the staff, or the users, please follow your complaint up with how YOU think the issue you have should be handled, including how you would solve the problem in a logical, realistic manor.

It's almost impossible to take specific complaints seriously from users who say the forums going to hell and then proceed to flame and degrade everyone they see, or even further, take complaints seriously from users who break rules all the time and get in trouble; and those are usually the users that have a problem with things. Things like calling ZFGC "/zfgc/", and random "Theres too much 4chan stuff on here!" *goes to post a /b/ meme* just gets annoying, and it's not constructive at all.

The staff is aware of a lot of the issues this forum has, and even further the administration team has plans for ZFGC using SMF 2.0, and the different ways it will be maintained; so please keep that in mind when you have an issue with the board.

Even further than forum complaints; if you don't like someones work, post, etc do not, please, under any circumstances degrade the user and make them feel like crap. This is a major pet peeve of mine. If you're going to comment on content (sprites, music, etc) someone posts that you dislike, give constructive criticism, not just criticism.

Also remember, EVERYONE is welcomed to PM administration with suggestions/complaints/etc. We DO read those, and even further we make a thread in the staff boards (or admin boards if applicable) about the issue and ways to solve it; so don't think you go unsung.

Anyway, I just felt it would be appropriate to post this; It's been on our minds for a little while; but just remember to follow up complaints logically, and do it in a tasteful manor. Don't degrade everyone and become a problem yourself just because you see an issue with the boards

-Mammy

[Dumb_Ass]

Dumb_Ass

Re: Criticism without Construction

I make a movement that /b/ memes are unallowed in Spam!.

[शेफाली]

शेफाली

Re: Criticism without Construction

I make a movement that /b/ memes are unallowed in Spam!.

That is completely unrelated to this topic. Also, !@#$% censorship.

* Shefali goes to post some memes in /spam/.

[Mamoruanime]

Mamoruanime

Re: Criticism without Construction

I think you guys are missing the point lol

[Mirby]

Mirby

Re: Criticism without Construction

* MetaKirby criticizes without contructive input

Yeah, I've noticed ths too and it really pisses me off. HB did this to me in TRM's textbox topic. It really pissed me off and I didn't like it at all. At least when FISSURE commented on Goomba's Revenge, there was some constructive input. Seriously, it's called C&C for a reason. It's not comments and/or criticism, it's both!

Mirby Studios | Share & Enjoy now available! (Links above!) | Games I've Beaten

I like-like it

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[Garoth Moulinoski]

Garoth Moulinoski

Re: Criticism without Construction

I hate how some people do criticize without giving any input as to how you can improve. I guess they feel you're too stupid to follow their advice... Also, it's not like being told what's not working will help since sometimes the answer isn't as clear as "just take it out".

I also hate, however, when you explicitly say "don't comment on such thing since that's only a placeholder or that I'm aware of that problem already" and they still come in and comment about it. Ugh.

My Brawl FC is 1289-8196-4511. Don't expect me to be on all the time though.

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[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Criticism without Construction

This might sound a little cynical to say, but there are users here who just want praise and would rather have someone do something completely for them than to do it themselves.  Even if constructive criticism were given to these individuals, they for the most part do not listen or attempt to follow it.  If those responding to this user abide by the "if you have nothing nice to say, then do not saying anything at all" mentality, then the user in question would most likely post an annoying "bump" or get angry that no one was responding to them.  It would be refreshing if people such as this would be intervened upon by others and potentially staff so that their behavior in itself could be curtailed or adjusted.

My point being that sometimes for the users of the type I mentioned above, it is best to just be blunt and give them words that they will listen to.  In a roundabout way, the user will end up either trying really hard to prove someone wrong or will just go away; if the latter, it is mostly for the best as they would not have been that much of an asset to the community direction anyway. 

Of course though, it is best to give constructive criticism out as much as you can though as it does help those who look forward to it.

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Criticism without Construction

This might sound a little cynical to say, but there are users here who just want praise and would rather have someone you have nothing nice to say, then do not saying anything at all" mentality, then the user in question would most likely post an annoying "bump" or get angry that no one was responding to them.  It would be refreshing if people such as this would be intervened upon by others and potentially staff so that their behavior in itself could be curtailed or adjusted.

My point being that sometimes for the users of the type I mentioned above, it is best to just be blunt and give them words that they will listen to.  In a roundabout way, the user will end up either trying really hard to prove someone wrong or will just go away; if the latter, it is mostly for the best as they would not have been that much of an asset to the community direction anyway. 

Of course though, it is best to give constructive criticism out as much as you can though as it does help those who look forward to it.

Or they will just post back against your bluntness and insult you, then ignore you or just ignore you all together.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Criticism without Construction

That is also likely.  If the message someone posted was just "your game is !@#$%", then the user would respond bluntly.  If the message was "your game is !@#$% because you just put a bunch of engines together with no synchronization", then the point is made.  Dealing with people who want praise though only listen to what they want to hear anyway though.  They will keep fishing for a positive response to what they did even if it is truly bad. 

It saddens me a little that insults matter so much in the development section though as most of the things people make in there will never be finished or will just end badly.  To that regard I say everything is !@#$%, but then my mind does the slippery-slope and so is everything thereafter.  It would be nice if users in development would try to solve their own problems once in a while though.  Programming is not supposed to be so clean and straightforward on your first try, so expecting it to be is a little much.

If someone can legitimately claim though that they put work into something, then the project or whatever can be found to be worthy of respect.  That is what I believe.

[Mamoruanime]

Mamoruanime

Re: Criticism without Construction

Erm...

Okay, if it plays out like this-

User: Check out my awesome spritesheet!
ZFGCer: Hmm you should probably fix the shading a bit
User: !@#$% YOU THE SHADING IS FINE. IM NOT CHANGING IT.


Then the ZFGCer should then move on and not bother with it further, as the user did not take their advice. It's no longer the ZFGCers concern. Further posts would only instigate a potential argument. While the user should not act as such, more than likely a post from staff will show up informing the user that they should play nice, not be so harsh, etc.

Then if it plays out like this-

User: Check out my awesome game!
ZFGCer: Awesome, I like it.
User: Thank you!
User: Bump!
User: Bump!

The user will be informed that he should not bump his thread; if someone has interest in the project they will post. plain and simple. It's not up to the ZFGCer to rent-a-mod or tell the User off just because he bumped his thread. It's up to the staff to inform the user that he should not bump so frequently without updates, etc.

In this case-

User: Check this sprite out!
ZFGCer: Sucks.
User: !@#$% you!

The ZFGCer AND the User are at fault. ZFGCer should NEVER have acted so harshly, and the User should have just reported the thread and moved on.

My point is, there are channels things should go through... "ZFGCer" should not insult a user under any circumstances.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Criticism without Construction

Alright, but I was more or less referring to an instance where a "ZFGCer" would respond with something that is mildly harsh but also helpful and the "User" would only take notice of the negativity and respond accordingly in a negative manner.  Also, in your first case, sometimes confrontations are a good thing in that it engages the members of the community not only to look into a certain section, but to gang up around the importance of constructive criticism.  As long as the "ZFGCer" does not respond to the "User" with a message of equivolant vulgar and tries to maintain a calmness in their responses, then leaving the "User" alone would not be the best thing.  If the "User" proves to just be an extremely negative person who cannot tolerate everything, then a ban could be put in place either temporarily or permanently depending on the continuation of his or her actions.  Also, while this may not be a factor during all parts of the day, the moderation is sometimes hesitant or unable to react immediately so the conflict just escalates naturally. 

It is not so much an insult to a person to say that their project is "shitty" as well.  While I can see where the person might take offense to it as it was their work, it takes a bit for the work to be a reflection of the person who made it.  Then again, some projects are just insulting in their existence.  Meh.