ZFGC
Projects => Recruitment => Topic started by: sjegtp on August 11, 2007, 12:58:20 am
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View this topic at ZFGC. (http://www.zfgc.com/index.php?topic=19482.0)
And this topic at RGF. (http://rgf.yudia.net/index.php?topic=47.0)
I will need:
Up to 20 spriters:
1-
2-Beavercanoe
3-Deku_stick
4-(Chaotic_Death)
5-(dehvknull)
6-(TheRealDragonboy)
7-(Pyzelda) * items and explosions
8-Bustertheheroic * back-up spriter
9-
10-
11-
12-
13-
14-
15-
16-
17-
18-
19-
20-
OBS: Spriters will make 2D 32x64 animations (this is the standard size, but others are possible) for the characters, and things as items, explosions, etc..
Up to 10 background drawers:
1-
2-Tabby
3-(TheRealDragonboy)
4-Beavercanoe
5-
6-
7-
8-
9-
10-
They'll draw the backgrounds for the levels, design title screens and menus.
Up to 8 level designers:
1-uma
2-Chaotic_Death
3-sirkildar / Vandavil
4-Knivu
5-Soapie(cb43569)
6-
7-
8-
OBS: Feel free to design whatever you want. I want the levels to be very creative. I intend to make 30~40 levels available in the game. You don't need to draw the levels (this will be done by the background drawers), so don't worry about if the levels are hard to draw or to program, just focus on the level being original.
Up to 10 composers.
1-
2-(theforeshadower) * helping with MP3 convertions
3-(uma)
4-*Dayjo left*
5-*blue_chu_jelly left.*
6-
7-
8-
9-
10-
OBS: Some of the tracks will depend on the character or the level.
Up to 7 people to deal with .wav files (record sounds for characters' voices and sound effects):
1-cb43569
2-Colbydude
3-Drewdelz
4-uma
5-Tabby
6-Q.K. * sound quality and announcer
7-
OBS: I will try to ask the members that have playable characters in the game if they could record their own voice, but some of them won't have human voices for them, and others might not be able to record it.
EDIT: Programmers:
1-sjegtp
2-
OBS: I'm using C++ with SDL. I think I'm able to code it all myself, but I might need help.
Up to 5 beta-testers:
1-Ryan
2-Colbydude
3-
4-
5-
Up to 3 people to help with choosing the characters' moves:
1-TheRealDragonboy
2-Colbydude
3-
Up to 3 Concept Artists:
1-TheRealDragonboy
2-
3-
PS:I'd like to state one thing that a few people didn't notice... People who are working in the game aren't necessarily in the character list. Not even I am. The character list in independent of who are making the game.
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Aww dang no programming positions available (yet). I could probably help with the voice recordings and sound effects somehow...
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Have an option to pick from multiple announcers, maybe 3?
And I'll do the voice work and be one of 'em. :P haha
And one of the 3 should be a female member.
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Well, for now I cou start handing you innovative and/or revolutionary ideas. Or, later on at leased, I could manage the team if it gets big enough for that... You know, things like that.
And I might be able to help with graphics.
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I could be a level designer and do soundeffects...
Level design will be fun! *Evil grin*
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I'll do level design!
,;Sk;,
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I'll help with level design too, if there's room n__n
I would help with spriting too but with school starting soon I won't have any time.
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I can help with the spriting..
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I'll help with level design too, if there's room n__n
I would help with spriting too but with school starting soon I won't have any time.
I put you in the spriting too. I put many positions because I know that everyone is busy with school or college or work, so it's okay if you can only help a little.
Maybe I should add more programmer positions, but the problem is that I consider sharing code something quite difficult... I'd rather use the programming board.
I could be a level designer and do soundeffects...
Level design will be fun! *Evil grin*
Would you like to make some MP3s too? There are so few composers in ZFGC, and I don't know if Dayjo or Q.K. or Scooternew would be able to help... Or maybe I could use videogame music, but I'd like to have someone to deal with the music for me.
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I'll do sound effects and level design. Um, wait though, as for level design: am I drawing a level, or just tiling one from premade tiles from the spriters? Because I can tile and design, but not sprite the level <_<;
Oh, and sound effects; I own at them. Um. Kinda.
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I could contribute a few tracks... But I can't be the main composer!
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I could contribute a few tracks... But I can't be the main composer!
Same here...I would also like to join level design...
I can get and search for good game music....I also modify .mid and then convert into mp3...
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
You are making the mistake of mixing up trademarks with copyright. The code can still be under the GPL as long as you are the copyright owner (i.e. you wrote the code, or got the copyrights transfered to you). And I'm not really sure how we would use names and ideas from Nintendo anyway. Except the Z in ZFGC and possibly member names.
The point in releasing it under the GPL has already been discussed in the other thread on the ideas board.
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I might design a level or two, but don't count on me being able to sprite, I have no spriting ability whatsoever. I have to see what my college schedule is like later next week when I move in before I make a full commitment.
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I'll do sound effects and level design. Um, wait though, as for level design: am I drawing a level, or just tiling one from premade tiles from the spriters? Because I can tile and design, but not sprite the level <_<;
No, as I've said, don't worry about making the sprites or the backgrounds: In this case level editing would be the ideas for each level such as how many floors, moving platforms, or things like the barrels of a D.K. stage. You only need to design something that would match with the stage's respective character. Don't worry about drawing the floor or the backgrounds, leave that to the spriters.
I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
It'll be GPL... I think :P. In fact I mean it'll be free and I'll release the source. I don't think that would be stealing from Nintendo; first because this is not copyrighted, second because we won't take anything from Nintendo, most sprites and music would be custom... Some sprites and music would be inevitably copied or very similar (for instance, for Hyrule_boy we would probably use Link custom sprites with Zelda music), are some names (as well as the game title) are related to Nintendo, but as this is not copyrighted, I don't think there is much problem.
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
You are making the mistake of mixing up trademarks with copyright. The code can still be under the GPL as long as you are the copyright owner (i.e. you wrote the code, or got the copyrights transfered to you). And I'm not really sure how we would use names and ideas from Nintendo anyway. Except the Z in ZFGC and possibly member names.
The point in releasing it under the GPL has already been discussed in the other thread on the ideas board.
Exactly. Learn what things are before you make assumptions. You can find the GPL at www.gnu.org. It's not very long (only about four pages on paper).
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
You are making the mistake of mixing up trademarks with copyright. The code can still be under the GPL as long as you are the copyright owner (i.e. you wrote the code, or got the copyrights transfered to you). And I'm not really sure how we would use names and ideas from Nintendo anyway. Except the Z in ZFGC and possibly member names.
The point in releasing it under the GPL has already been discussed in the other thread on the ideas board.
I'm not confused between the two, I'm simply stating that we'd most likely be releasing content under the GPL with already copyrighted names/ music / art etc ...
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
You are making the mistake of mixing up trademarks with copyright. The code can still be under the GPL as long as you are the copyright owner (i.e. you wrote the code, or got the copyrights transfered to you). And I'm not really sure how we would use names and ideas from Nintendo anyway. Except the Z in ZFGC and possibly member names.
The point in releasing it under the GPL has already been discussed in the other thread on the ideas board.
I'm not confused between the two, I'm simply stating that we'd most likely be releasing content under the GPL with already copyrighted names/ music / art etc ...
But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
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I might sprite myself, but ONLY if this game is released under the GPL.
Not entirely sure that'd be possible seeing as it's already copying names and ideas from Nintendo... not sure what the GPL says about things like that.... Also, what would be the point in releasing it under the GPL?
You are making the mistake of mixing up trademarks with copyright. The code can still be under the GPL as long as you are the copyright owner (i.e. you wrote the code, or got the copyrights transfered to you). And I'm not really sure how we would use names and ideas from Nintendo anyway. Except the Z in ZFGC and possibly member names.
The point in releasing it under the GPL has already been discussed in the other thread on the ideas board.
I'm not confused between the two, I'm simply stating that we'd most likely be releasing content under the GPL with already copyrighted names/ music / art etc ...
But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
That's true, but if we're going to use sprites then we probably wouldn't use too much vector graphics or layers. Unless he goes with the Alien Hominid idea.
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But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
Yes, we'd better use only original art. But that you've said also applies to music, right? Then I'll have to change the music positions to composing only (instead of also using existent music).
EDIT: Added 2 A.I. programming positions.
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yes, I will compose, I can make a few tracks, .mid or .mp3. BUT I will not lead the composers.
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wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
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wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
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wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
That's why you should make your code readable and and well-documented. The GPL will help a bit here.
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But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
Yes, we'd better use only original art. But that you've said also applies to music, right? Then I'll have to change the music positions to composing only (instead of also using existent music).
Yes it also applied to music. In fact it applied to any kind of resource <_< >_>
yes, I will compose, I can make a few tracks, .mid or .mp3. BUT I will not lead the composers.
Ok, sorry for being a complete ass here but technically .mp3 is inferior to .mid. Or actually they are both inferior (generally) to anything. Even silence!
Technically when you convert a .mid to a .mp3 you first convert it to raw wave (think a .wav) and then compress it lossy to mp3. While playing a .mid at run-time it is just creating beautiful lossless .wav which is far better quality than .mp3, PLUS it's a smaller size to store because it only has data on how and what to play, not necessarily how it's going to sound!
Oh right, in that last part I shot myself in the foot. The *bad* thing about midi is that it sounds different on most systems, because every sound card or operating system use different sound fonts. Thus a mp3 created from a .mid on a $10000 sound card would sound better than a .mid played on a $10 sound card any day. But there's a solution. Use a software synthesizer with a good sound font installed embedded in the actual game (or link it to a DLL/Shared Library). An example of such a library is TiMidity++ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiMidity) and it's free software and very well compatible with many operating systems, and sound the same on all of them! However, in theory it would be compatible with GameMaker technically (by using the DLL interface), but legally it isn't (even if your project is free software; remember that GameMaker is not).
wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
Not to mention that A.I. in GamerMaker is slow as a dehydrated snail trying to move sideways.
You will want to do it in C, C++ or some other standard language if you want to work together. As I said before GM is not made for that task! It's ridiculous to pass around the gm6 and keep track of who has the latest version and so on.
Instead you put up a project in a so called revision control system. From there you download a couple of source code files, edit them, and upload them again (putting your signature and a little comment on what the change do). The management system keeps track of who is doing what, and people editing the same file will in 99.99% cases not ruin for each other. With a click everyone has the latest version through the internet. In almost all major revision control systems you are also able to rewind and create a copy from any version ever made. Just like a wiki it keeps track of every change so you every version still exist even if you apparently overwrite it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control
Of course, if that sounds even more complex, sure go ahead and make it one man in GameMaker. I would however be glad with contributing code if you used the other way *cough* my way, lol *cough* (especially A.I. sounds fun, and is partially a new area for me).
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wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
That's why you should make your code readable and and well-documented. The GPL will help a bit here.
I know, I can put comments in the whole code, but it's still difficult to understand/explain how the code works, what each variable stands for, why some pieces of code are needed, etc.. When you read a topic in the programming section you realize it; you often take some time to fully understand the code posted. Now image an entire game. Even with the comments it's difficult.
@Venus: all right, you are starting to make me confused. :P
About .mp3: converting .mid to .mp3 is pointless if you don't add extra sound effects after that. You know that after you convert it, you can add things such as reverb, echo, chorus, etc. and you can change the soundfonts. Also you can add human voice to it (for instance, in a song). THEN mp3 quality is a lot better.
About the AI: I've already said that I might change it to C++ with SDL if I manage to learn it well, but as of now I'll do it in GM. Also, I prefer having one main programmer who gathers all the engines and algorithms and adapts them so that the engines can work together.
About revision control: Sounds interesting but rather confusing. I'll think about that later though.
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wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
That's why you should make your code readable and and well-documented. The GPL will help a bit here.
I know, I can put comments in the whole code, but it's still difficult to understand/explain how the code works, what each variable stands for, why some pieces of code are needed, etc.. When you read a topic in the programming section you realize it; you often take some time to fully understand the code posted. Now image an entire game. Even with the comments it's difficult.
@Venus: all right, you are starting to make me confused. :P
About .mp3: converting .mid to .mp3 is pointless if you don't add extra sound effects after that. You know that after you convert it, you can add things such as reverb, echo, chorus, etc. and you can change the soundfonts. Also you can add human voice to it (for instance, in a song). THEN mp3 quality is a lot better.
About the AI: I've already said that I might change it to C++ with SDL if I manage to learn it well, but as of now I'll do it in GM. Also, I prefer having one main programmer who gathers all the engines and algorithms and adapts them so that the engines can work together.
About revision control: Sounds interesting but rather confusing. I'll think about that later though.
It would be better to use .ogg instead. I don't think .mp3 works in Pygame (and likely many other things), and it is higher quality, smaller, and Free Software. If programmers work on different parts, then it might be easier.
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But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
Yes, we'd better use only original art. But that you've said also applies to music, right? Then I'll have to change the music positions to composing only (instead of also using existent music).
Yes it also applied to music. In fact it applied to any kind of resource <_< >_>
yes, I will compose, I can make a few tracks, .mid or .mp3. BUT I will not lead the composers.
Ok, sorry for being a complete ass here but technically .mp3 is inferior to .mid. Or actually they are both inferior (generally) to anything. Even silence!
Technically when you convert a .mid to a .mp3 you first convert it to raw wave (think a .wav) and then compress it lossy to mp3. While playing a .mid at run-time it is just creating beautiful lossless .wav which is far better quality than .mp3, PLUS it's a smaller size to store because it only has data on how and what to play, not necessarily how it's going to sound!
Oh right, in that last part I shot myself in the foot. The *bad* thing about midi is that it sounds different on most systems, because every sound card or operating system use different sound fonts. Thus a mp3 created from a .mid on a $10000 sound card would sound better than a .mid played on a $10 sound card any day. But there's a solution. Use a software synthesizer with a good sound font installed embedded in the actual game (or link it to a DLL/Shared Library). An example of such a library is TiMidity++ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiMidity) and it's free software and very well compatible with many operating systems, and sound the same on all of them! However, in theory it would be compatible with GameMaker technically (by using the DLL interface), but legally it isn't (even if your project is free software; remember that GameMaker is not).
wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
Not to mention that A.I. in GamerMaker is slow as a dehydrated snail trying to move sideways.
You will want to do it in C, C++ or some other standard language if you want to work together. As I said before GM is not made for that task! It's ridiculous to pass around the gm6 and keep track of who has the latest version and so on.
Instead you put up a project in a so called revision control system. From there you download a couple of source code files, edit them, and upload them again (putting your signature and a little comment on what the change do). The management system keeps track of who is doing what, and people editing the same file will in 99.99% cases not ruin for each other. With a click everyone has the latest version through the internet. In almost all major revision control systems you are also able to rewind and create a copy from any version ever made. Just like a wiki it keeps track of every change so you every version still exist even if you apparently overwrite it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control
Of course, if that sounds even more complex, sure go ahead and make it one man in GameMaker. I would however be glad with contributing code if you used the other way *cough* my way, lol *cough* (especially A.I. sounds fun, and is partially a new area for me).
I hate midis. mainly because I have a !@#$% sound card, so I prefer to listen to mp3. you could always use wav files, but then I doubt many people will want to dl 500mb of wav just to play the game. and using FLStudio6 you can do more to an mp3. who cares if it's a lossy format? there's not that much difference in sound quality.
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But that is what I was saying. Names cannot be copyrighted (they can however be protected other ways, but only in some cases. That's why you can still make unique characters named Link or Zelda and so on). And we don't need to put or use music and art under GPL just because we put the code under it. However, if we truly want a free game we shouldn't for other reasons use music and art which is already copyrighted in a non-free way or in some other way "protected". We wouldn't really *want* to use art from e.g. Nintendo, or at least that's what I'm thinking. Either way, using their art is illegal with or without a license. At most they can demand us to take the art off, and that's all.
It seems like we have already found a lot of artists anyway so it would be kind of pointless to use from Nintendo. And we can make original art based on Nintendo's and still be able to use it (the same way e.g. parodies are legal). I recommend that the art is original and either put under the GPL together with the code, or put under a Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license. If the art is under the GPL you will need to release the "source" for the art as well. That might for example be the original vector art, the image separated in the original layers and so on. Such art-"source" could be really good to distribute as well to make it easier for a user to modify them. And if it's easier for them to modify the very original source art it will make contributions a lot easier and it will keep the overall quality of the art.
Yes, we'd better use only original art. But that you've said also applies to music, right? Then I'll have to change the music positions to composing only (instead of also using existent music).
Yes it also applied to music. In fact it applied to any kind of resource <_< >_>
yes, I will compose, I can make a few tracks, .mid or .mp3. BUT I will not lead the composers.
Ok, sorry for being a complete ass here but technically .mp3 is inferior to .mid. Or actually they are both inferior (generally) to anything. Even silence!
Technically when you convert a .mid to a .mp3 you first convert it to raw wave (think a .wav) and then compress it lossy to mp3. While playing a .mid at run-time it is just creating beautiful lossless .wav which is far better quality than .mp3, PLUS it's a smaller size to store because it only has data on how and what to play, not necessarily how it's going to sound!
Oh right, in that last part I shot myself in the foot. The *bad* thing about midi is that it sounds different on most systems, because every sound card or operating system use different sound fonts. Thus a mp3 created from a .mid on a $10000 sound card would sound better than a .mid played on a $10 sound card any day. But there's a solution. Use a software synthesizer with a good sound font installed embedded in the actual game (or link it to a DLL/Shared Library). An example of such a library is TiMidity++ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiMidity) and it's free software and very well compatible with many operating systems, and sound the same on all of them! However, in theory it would be compatible with GameMaker technically (by using the DLL interface), but legally it isn't (even if your project is free software; remember that GameMaker is not).
wow umm..is one main programmer really going to cut it?
EDIT: I will need one or two people to help with the A.I.. The A.I. will be very difficult in this game, I estimate it will represents about 1/2 of the total code. The problem is that it is difficult to have many people working on the code, it's difficult to explain to the other programmers (specially through the internet) how the code you coded works and vice versa; it's not the same thing of having more than one spriter or composer.
Not to mention that A.I. in GamerMaker is slow as a dehydrated snail trying to move sideways.
You will want to do it in C, C++ or some other standard language if you want to work together. As I said before GM is not made for that task! It's ridiculous to pass around the gm6 and keep track of who has the latest version and so on.
Instead you put up a project in a so called revision control system. From there you download a couple of source code files, edit them, and upload them again (putting your signature and a little comment on what the change do). The management system keeps track of who is doing what, and people editing the same file will in 99.99% cases not ruin for each other. With a click everyone has the latest version through the internet. In almost all major revision control systems you are also able to rewind and create a copy from any version ever made. Just like a wiki it keeps track of every change so you every version still exist even if you apparently overwrite it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control
Of course, if that sounds even more complex, sure go ahead and make it one man in GameMaker. I would however be glad with contributing code if you used the other way *cough* my way, lol *cough* (especially A.I. sounds fun, and is partially a new area for me).
I hate midis. mainly because I have a !@#$% sound card, so I prefer to listen to mp3. you could always use wav files, but then I doubt many people will want to dl 500mb of wav just to play the game. and using FLStudio6 you can do more to an mp3. who cares if it's a lossy format? there's not that much difference in sound quality.
As I said, oggs would be best.
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I hate midis. mainly because I have a !@#$% sound card, so I prefer to listen to mp3. you could always use wav files, but then I doubt many people will want to dl 500mb of wav just to play the game. and using FLStudio6 you can do more to an mp3. who cares if it's a lossy format? there's not that much difference in sound quality.
I agree with you. I could never tell the difference between a .wav file and an .mp3 one (or .ogg). It must be a difference humans can't hear. However, .wav files make the game much bigger, that's the problem. I might release two versions of the game: One with .mp3 music and the other with .wav or .ogg music.
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I hate midis. mainly because I have a !@#$% sound card, so I prefer to listen to mp3. you could always use wav files, but then I doubt many people will want to dl 500mb of wav just to play the game. and using FLStudio6 you can do more to an mp3. who cares if it's a lossy format? there's not that much difference in sound quality.
I agree with you. I could never tell the difference between a .wav file and an .mp3 one (or .ogg). It must be a difference humans can't hear. However, .wav files make the game much bigger, that's the problem. I might release two versions of the game: One with .mp3 music and the other with .wav or .ogg music.
.ogg is smaller than .mp3.
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I suppose oggs are fine too as GM can read them... but I'm an mp3 person. .wav's are too big, .ogg's aren't very popular and I never bothered to find out much about them, and the only thing .mid's are good for is the score, not for playback.
and venus, we could do the soundfont lib idea, but what's the point when it just over-complicates things and is illegal with GM anyway?
And someone needs to make a file updater, fast. that will help a lot with making this.
also, quick question: are the people working on this getting their own character in the game?
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I suppose oggs are fine too as GM can read them... but I'm an mp3 person. .wav's are too big, .ogg's aren't very popular and I never bothered to find out much about them, and the only thing .mid's are good for is the score, not for playback.
and venus, we could do the soundfont lib idea, but what's the point when it just over-complicates things and is illegal with GM anyway?
And someone needs to make a file updater, fast. that will help a lot with making this.
also, quick question: are the people working on this getting their own character in the game?
I'm not sure if he's using GM, though.
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sjegtp, I need to know what kind of spriter/artist you need before I can agree to do that !@#$%.
Just so you know, I own a Wacom drawing tablet, so I can do that crap.
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I suppose oggs are fine too as GM can read them... but I'm an mp3 person. .wav's are too big, .ogg's aren't very popular and I never bothered to find out much about them, and the only thing .mid's are good for is the score, not for playback.
What?? You don't use oggs because they're not popular? Sure they are, most Indie developers wanting a nice compressed sound format will use OGG, mainly because MP3 requires a license to distribute. I don't see why we can't use OGGs. Also, I would be interested in being part of the composing team, but I think I'll wait to see how the leading and planning of the team turns out... so far it's a bit of a mess.
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I never proposed you to have raw .wav files -_-;; And IF I would I would recommend something like FLAC instead which compresses it losslessly.
How about this? You might use .midis and so on from the beginning. When those are done you might want to convert them to a regular sound file and make some minor or major changes. Then you keep all intermediate files, so when you convert a .mid to .wav you still keep the .mid as a backup, and when you compress the .wav to .ogg you still keep the .wav (alternatively you could compress it losslessly with FLAC). When you finally have a lossy compressed file you can't (or shouldn't) work on it anymore; you should always work on lossless (you knew that right?). That way in the end you can make a release of all three or more versions, and at the same time respect the GPL very much (because you would release the equivalent to the source code for the music).
@sjegtp, I'm sorry I make you confused but I try everything I can to explain :P I need to create a manual for this, lol. If you feel all this is new to you, although I can't explicitly recommend e.g. GameMaker I would still recommend you to doing it your own way since I wouldn't really have time to help a lot when the project start (there's however loads of help on using SDL and Revision control systems around the Internet). I guess it wouldn't be fair if I broke down the whole project just because you can't use the tools I recommend.
Oh, and I'm sorry if you get the feeling that I'm hijacking your project D: I am not trying to do that. It just happened that the discussion come up before and I couldn't resist throw myself into it >_>;;
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I suppose oggs are fine too as GM can read them... but I'm an mp3 person. .wav's are too big, .ogg's aren't very popular and I never bothered to find out much about them, and the only thing .mid's are good for is the score, not for playback.
and venus, we could do the soundfont lib idea, but what's the point when it just over-complicates things and is illegal with GM anyway?
And someone needs to make a file updater, fast. that will help a lot with making this.
also, quick question: are the people working on this getting their own character in the game?
Not all of them. This is a game about the "famous" people of ZFGC, not about the game producers. :P Not even I will be in that game. I mean, I did the character list independently of the who is doing the game, and I won't remove people like .TakaM or FISSURE from the list to add someone who is doing the game (but I may change the list if there are people who deserve more to be in the list than others). If you want to see the list and comment on it you can view the game's topic.
sjegtp, I need to know what kind of spriter/artist you need before I can agree to do that !@#$%.
Just so you know, I own a Wacom drawing tablet, so I can do that crap.
Well, the backgrounds of the stages will use quite elaborate graphics; maybe I should recruit people to draw the backgrounds, because it isn't the same of doing the characters' sprites.
The sprites, though, will use 32x64 pixelated images (using graphics similar to most SNES or GBA games), and some of them will be based on existent images (from e. g. the avatars of the characters and some of them from the character competition).
To tell the truth, I've never heard about that program you use, but I'll suppose it's the same level of MSPaint or the drawing tools of GM6. You can do sprites using those programs, but it's better to use a more advanced program to do the backgrounds.
I never proposed you to have raw .wav files -_-;; And IF I would I would recommend something like FLAC instead which compresses it losslessly.
How about this? You might use .midis and so on from the beginning. When those are done you might want to convert them to a regular sound file and make some minor or major changes. Then you keep all intermediate files, so when you convert a .mid to .wav you still keep the .mid as a backup, and when you compress the .wav to .ogg you still keep the .wav (alternatively you could compress it losslessly with FLAC). When you finally have a lossy compressed file you can't (or shouldn't) work on it anymore; you should always work on lossless (you knew that right?). That way in the end you can make a release of all three or more versions, and at the same time respect the GPL very much (because you would release the equivalent to the source code for the music).
I intend to do this way. I can compose MIDIs, but I wouldn't buy FLStudio or soundfonts. As I know, composers usually create a MIDI, convert them to MP3 and then they change the soundfonts and add sound effects, so they usually have the MIDI saved in their PC. I'm not very sure about how composing with .wav or .ogg works though.
@sjegtp, I'm sorry I make you confused but I try everything I can to explain :P I need to create a manual for this, lol. If you feel all this is new to you, although I can't explicitly recommend e.g. GameMaker I would still recommend you to doing it your own way since I wouldn't really have time to help a lot when the project start (there's however loads of help on using SDL and Revision control systems around the Internet). I guess it wouldn't be fair if I broke down the whole project just because you can't use the tools I recommend.
Oh, and I'm sorry if you get the feeling that I'm hijacking your project D: I am not trying to do that. It just happened that the discussion come up before and I couldn't resist throw myself into it >_>;;
I can't blame you for anything. I really feel the need to learn about that, specially because I want to be a professional programmer and I'm starting to feel like a n00b in these topics >.<. Er... please, just keep posting. You can't force me to do anything in this project, because you aren't working on it, but I need to know all the possibilities.
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About the backgrounds.. it would be cool if you could get someone like Crystal to do some cool vector backgrounds... could be really nice.
About composing.. I don't get a lot of time, but if you need me, just give me a bell and I'll see if I can whip some stuff up. Basically sjegtp, if anything is composed in midi, and we're going to work with a high quality soundtrack, it's easy enough to import a midi file into Fruity loops and spruce it up.
I would recommend using OGG format, mainly be cause it compresses very well with little loss, and is very easy to work with.
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About the backgrounds.. it would be cool if you could get someone like Crystal to do some cool vector backgrounds... could be really nice.
Yes, vector backgrounds would look nice. And I suppose they're easier to draw than pixel art.
About composing.. I don't get a lot of time, but if you need me, just give me a bell and I'll see if I can whip some stuff up. Basically sjegtp, if anything is composed in midi, and we're going to work with a high quality soundtrack, it's easy enough to import a midi file into Fruity loops and spruce it up.
I would recommend using OGG format, mainly be cause it compresses very well with little loss, and is very easy to work with.
It's okay if you can only compose one or two tracks... I'll put you in the list with your name in a parenthesis.
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I don't really don't know how capable of writing smash bros style music I am... It's pretty full flavoured and epix.. i generally work with quieter, more classical pieces... i'll open fruity loops and see if I can muster anything more... i dont know.. smashy? lol
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I don't really don't know how capable of writing smash bros style music I am... It's pretty full flavoured and epix.. i generally work with quieter, more classical pieces... i'll open fruity loops and see if I can muster anything more... i dont know.. smashy? lol
I would be a composer too, but I suck at making music for battle themes, bosses and that stuff too :P. So I would understand if you say that you can't compose them, it's okay.
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The only thing I could possibly do is draw stage ideas on paper. I'd have to get someone else to sprite them.
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Hammer Bro Mike.Hey,I know someone good at spriting,but rite now I cant remember his name lol :D
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Hehe, played around with Fruity Loops for a while and came up with like a little medley of tunes.. Kinda sounds like trailer music, or like opening sequence music where it introduces characters..
http://dayjo.org/files/sounds/ssb1.mp3
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Lol,What chracters?
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Hehe, played around with Fruity Loops for a while and came up with like a little medley of tunes.. Kinda sounds like trailer music, or like opening sequence music where it introduces characters..
http://dayjo.org/files/sounds/ssb1.mp3
Very good, if the whole game has music that good, it'll be amazing.
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Hehe, played around with Fruity Loops for a while and came up with like a little medley of tunes.. Kinda sounds like trailer music, or like opening sequence music where it introduces characters..
http://dayjo.org/files/sounds/ssb1.mp3
Sorry Dayjo, but I couldn't open the link... I don't know if the link is broken or something like that, because there are some sites from which I can't download files (including Ripway and Binary Phoenix hosting). Could you send me that MP3 attached in an e-mail, please?
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nice dayjo! I also would like to say I'm more suited to quieter, more ambient things, but I'll mess around in FL awhile too ;).
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Hehe, played around with Fruity Loops for a while and came up with like a little medley of tunes.. Kinda sounds like trailer music, or like opening sequence music where it introduces characters..
http://dayjo.org/files/sounds/ssb1.mp3
Sorry Dayjo, but I couldn't open the link... I don't know if the link is broken or something like that, because there are some sites from which I can't download files (including Ripway and Binary Phoenix hosting). Could you send me that MP3 attached in an e-mail, please?
Try again, it might be because I was re-uploading it.
Or here it is on Pufile; ZFGC-Smash-Bros-Medley (http://media.putfile.com/ZFGC-Smash-Bros-Medley)
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I can help you with the backgrounds and/or .wav files if you want to =) Though like Dayjo, I lack time. But I will try to do as much as I possibly can!
Edit: Just listened to the song, Dayjo, you're 1337, that was nice!
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:D :D :D
This is incredible, Dayjo.
As dehvknull said, if the whole game has this level of music, it would be great.
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Hehe, played around with Fruity Loops for a while and came up with like a little medley of tunes.. Kinda sounds like trailer music, or like opening sequence music where it introduces characters..
http://dayjo.org/files/sounds/ssb1.mp3
That's really good for just "messin' around", Dayjo! Nice work!
I love Fuity Loops.
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Very interesting idea for a game, that makes me want to join the team!
1. A spriter, I'm not that good in spriting animations or sides. But I could design the idea of a character.
2. Ideas for characters (is there a place like that? if so, I could help other people thinking of a character)
3. Webdesigner, If we are going to have a site. I also made the CoG site :)
4. Artist, if you are going to have them
Please choose the right thing for me :P
Oh and, Dayjo, your music is awesome :D
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1. A spriter, I'm not that good in spriting animations or sides. But I could design the idea of a character.
I'll put your name in the spriter's list, but let's see if the other spriters like your work...
2. Ideas for characters (is there a place like that? if so, I could help other people thinking of a character)
I do need help in that. You know, I can't choose everyone's moves alone, and some people didn't suggest anything for their moves (I've just PM'd everyone who's in the character list to get suggestions for their own moves and permission to be in the game). I intend to discuss that with the whole team together, possibly in an MSN "meeting", but actually I haven't talked to anyone about this yet :x. It's okay if you want to help with it, I'll have to put your name in the credits then :P.
3. Webdesigner, If we are going to have a site. I also made the CoG site :)
No sites.
4. Artist, if you are going to have them
They are the spriters and the background drawers. Do you really want to be a background drawer? That would be more difficult than spriting, and would require more advanced tools like Photoshop or using vector art...
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You guys wouldn't need an announcer would you? :P
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You guys wouldn't need an announcer would you? :P
As this game is being made for ZFGC, with ZFGC characters, I don't know if people from outside ZFGC would want to play it...
Do you want to be an announcer? Where would you announce the game?
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Me and Moldol got PM'd asking if we could be in the game, like Mario and Luigi. I said yes. :3
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Me and Moldol got PM'd asking if we could be in the game, like Mario and Luigi. I said yes. :3
Or like Ice Climbers, that would definitely be funny. :D
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You guys wouldn't need an announcer would you? :P
As this game is being made for ZFGC, with ZFGC characters, I don't know if people from outside ZFGC would want to play it...
Do you want to be an announcer? Where would you announce the game?
I meant the guy that yells stuff like "SUPER SMASH BROTHERS" or "FIGHT" and lines like that, not advertising :P
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I think I could help with graphics. ;P
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4. Artist, if you are going to have them
They are the spriters and the background drawers. Do you really want to be a background drawer? That would be more difficult than spriting, and would require more advanced tools like Photoshop or using vector art...
Lol, I have a LOT more experience with 'advanced' Photoshop and paint shop pro tools like vector arting. So that would be no problem.
However, I meant "art-ist" in drawing concept arts.
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You guys wouldn't need an announcer would you? :P
As this game is being made for ZFGC, with ZFGC characters, I don't know if people from outside ZFGC would want to play it...
Do you want to be an announcer? Where would you announce the game?
I meant the guy that yells stuff like "SUPER SMASH BROTHERS" or "FIGHT" and lines like that, not advertising :P
Ah, sorry, I understood advertising XD. Yeah, that goes to "dealing with .wav files". I'll put your name there then.
4. Artist, if you are going to have them
They are the spriters and the background drawers. Do you really want to be a background drawer? That would be more difficult than spriting, and would require more advanced tools like Photoshop or using vector art...
Lol, I have a LOT more experience with 'advanced' Photoshop and paint shop pro tools like vector arting. So that would be no problem.
However, I meant "art-ist" in drawing concept arts.
drawing concept arts... I don't know if that would be necessary, but you can do that too.
Also, since you have expierience with Photoshop I'll put you as "Background drawer" too, but if you don't want to, just post it here.
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I think a graphic style should be chosen soon. And a base sprite set made, with basic moves.. Jumping, Running, Attack Left, Right, Up, Down etc... So people can use them as templates and start designing their characters etc =)
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I think a graphic style should be chosen soon. And a base sprite set made, with basic moves.. Jumping, Running, Attack Left, Right, Up, Down etc... So people can use them as templates and start designing their characters etc =)
I think I'll do that for human characters, but there are some people who want to have animal design (Infinitus, for instance, said that would like to use that snake in his avatar); for these people the templates wouldn't work.
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I think a graphic style should be chosen soon. And a base sprite set made, with basic moves.. Jumping, Running, Attack Left, Right, Up, Down etc... So people can use them as templates and start designing their characters etc =)
I think I'll do that for human characters, but there are some people who want to have animal design (Infinitus, for instance, said that would like to use that snake in his avatar); for these people the templates wouldn't work.
Yeah, but a template can be modified a lot. But it'd be good to set up a scale for humans etc, so people know how big they're characters / moves are going to be.. how big backgrounds will be etc
Choosing a resolution is a good idea too =)
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Choosing a resolution is a good idea too =)
Screen resolution will vary because I'll have to use zoom so that all characters appear in the screen.
And the sprites' size is 32x64
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32x64? Surely that could be 64x64, incase of non-vertical characters, and for attacks etc..
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32x64? Surely that could be 64x64, incase of non-vertical characters, and for attacks etc..
Yes, I've said in my first post in this topic that this is the standard resolution, but could be changed for some characters: OBS: Spriters will make 2D 32x64 animations (this is the standard size, but others are possible) for the characters, and things as items, explosions, etc..
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4. Artist, if you are going to have them
They are the spriters and the background drawers. Do you really want to be a background drawer? That would be more difficult than spriting, and would require more advanced tools like Photoshop or using vector art...
Lol, I have a LOT more experience with 'advanced' Photoshop and paint shop pro tools like vector arting. So that would be no problem.
However, I meant "art-ist" in drawing concept arts.
drawing concept arts... I don't know if that would be necessary, but you can do that too.
Also, since you have expierience with Photoshop I'll put you as "Background drawer" too, but if you don't want to, just post it here.
I've actually never drew any backgrounds before, but I do have Photoshop experience. I think I can better be no background drawer, unless we're in need for one, I can be reserve :P
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@TRD: Okay.
Also, maybe we could have someone do draw a background (i. e. using color pencil or something like that), scan the drawing and adapt it using Photoshop so that it looks like vector art. Do you guys think it's a good idea?
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Yes! Because I'm just been practicing vector drawing recently....
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Yes! Because I'm just been practicing vector drawing recently....
Do you want to be a background drawer?
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Yes! Because I'm just been practicing vector drawing recently....
Do you want to be a background drawer?
Possibley... Depends....
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Yes! Because I'm just been practicing vector drawing recently....
Do you want to be a background drawer?
Possibley... Depends....
Okay... I'll put your name in, later if you think you can't do it I would just remove your name.
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I would like to sign up to sprite explosions and items!
here is an energy blast i made:(http://www.picsoup.com/images/81447energy blast.bmp) (http://www.picsoup.com/v.php?id=81447energy blast.bmp)
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I would like to sign up to sprite explosions and items!
here is an energy blast i made:(http://www.picsoup.com/images/81447energy blast.bmp) (http://www.picsoup.com/v.php?id=81447energy blast.bmp)
Oh Jesus.
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oh jesus
What do you mean oh jesus
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I think he means, as do I, that it is not really that great work. :/ Sorry but it is true. No shading and blocky. The whole thing is just ugly.
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heres a level stage I made:
(http://www.picsoup.com/images/54782pirate ship stage.bmp) (http://www.picsoup.com/v.php?id=54782pirate ship stage.bmp)
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Pyzelda, this resolution is too low... If the sprites are 32x63 pixels, we'd have to have backgrounds with more than 640x480 pixels, maybe 1280x960 pixels (since I'll use zoom and scrolling engines).
In this game, background drawing is more advanced than spriting, because you'd probably have to work with Photoshop or use vector art...
Sorry, but you'll have to put more effort into your images, otherwise I don't know if I can let you be in the team.
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I'll do the voices. Like, "Choose a player!", "Malonfan", "Pick a Stage". :D
Also, for a stage name I was thinking something along the lines of: "Spam Central!", "Mod Boards!". :D
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I wouldn't mind being a beta-tester or help out with the characters moves also. When are we gonna start actually doing stuff with this?
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Just a little question before I can begin,
In which style would it be?
Because I saw at TSR's SSB's spriteset, they where all in a different style.
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@Colbydude:Okay.
I'd like to have a "meeting" in real time with the staff of the project to decide what everyone can start doing... possibly using MSN or something similar? It's 'cause I have a lot of things to discuss with the staff, about the characters, about what they've suggested, about what can everyone start working on, etc.. The problem is that only a few people have their MSN address in their profile, so I was going to PM everyone to ask their MSN or if they'd like to do it using another real-time discussion program.
@TRD: I was going to ask the spriters to make some templates for human characters on that "meeting" (because we'd set a list of sprites that every character must have), but I haven't PM'd anyone yet.
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@TRD: I was going to ask the spriters to make some templates for human characters on that "meeting" (because we'd set a list of sprites that every character must have), but I haven't PM'd anyone yet.
I'll count on it :D
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i'll be a back-up spriter
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*BUMP*
Sorry for kind of gravedigging this topic, but I'm in urgent need of spriters.
The spriting is extremely slow, and only 2 out of the current 7 spriters are working on the project. And I need at least the templates of the sprites done so that I can release the movement engine demo.
Even if you can't sprite permanently, you can help it by posting in this board in this forum (http://rgf.yudia.net/index.php?board=23.0), because the project is public. You'll recieve credit the same way.