Hello Guest, please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Burning the flag of the USA in means of protest!  (Read 9817 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2006, 08:49:03 am »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
Alf, Pyru said that he is only against burning things as a means of protest if it brings harm to people, and that burning a flag in particular is not what the law should do.  Also, you cannot outlaw something because it is "disrespectful".  I could call you a !@#$% dooshbag in America, and even though it is disrespectful, it should still be allowed.  If the law jollyed everything up anyway, the whole country would be a bunch of pansies and twinkle fairies.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2006, 05:07:03 pm »
  • Who's your favorite possum?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1378
Yes, but we're not talking about calling someone a name, or badmouthing a president.  We're talking about burning a flag.  Not ripping it to shreds, not chewing on it, but BURNING it.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2006, 05:12:56 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6206
Isn't it that Terro's burn USA flags?
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2006, 07:46:26 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
The right of freedom of expression is often called freedom of speech because both are in the first amendment, and both meanings are similar.  People in the United States are allowed to critize their government, and flag burning is a means to critize this government.  A lot of the people who do burn flags do it because they love their country and seek change; that is also why they protest in a dramatic fashion.  And since when was burning a flag so bad?  People could take turns spitting on it, dumping garbage onto it, and a variety of other things that would be a lot worse.  Where should the government draw the line of what is acceptable protest?  They should not draw any line unless their is a significant reason too, and respect for a flag is not a good enough reason.

The people of America do not look like a pansies or a twinkle fairies to other countries and the countries who say that are probably that themselves.  The only thing that others can truly accuse the American people of being is fat, lacking in education, and lazy, but luckily not everyone is like that and most of which is a stereotype.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2006, 11:00:37 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
Apple pie and hot dogs represent America but pie throwing and hot dog eating contests are not banned.  Why, they are just as American as a flag is?  It is because they are symbols and not the real thing; America is America, a flag only represents that idea and in itself is not America.  People can show disrespect if they want to. 
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2006, 11:05:32 pm »
  • Why am I so indisicive?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 179
it won't just be burning. any desicration:

Logged
Meghan <3 Lederhosen!

Soy un perdedor. I???m a loser baby, so why don???t you kill me?

<('.'<)<)<)<)<)
  • deviant
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2006, 11:15:15 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
Apology accepted, lol.  The thing is that apple pie and hot dogs are an all-American food just like you have said.  So, would wasting those foods be anti-American?  Surely, disrespecting something that represents America is anti-American, so I guess that I would be a traitor to the nation or something.  The founding fathers language was different back then and should not be taken directly literally for loss of context.  They meant that the flag would be our symbol, just as all of the other establishments of the time had symbols that represented them.  They did not consider the flag to be America only they felt it was their respresentation for a world identity.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2006, 11:16:44 pm »
  • Who's your favorite possum?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1378
Quote
Apple pie and hot dogs represent America
By law?  OWAIT!  They're not.  However, the flag is the OFFICIAL LEGAL flag of the USA. :)

Should we be allowed to burn bald eagles, lol?
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2006, 11:23:11 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
Bald eagles are living and burning them would be animal cruelty.  But burning what is the official representation of a nation is not a criminal thing to do.  Only the government could make and define its own symbol, but that does not make it a truly legal thing.  The flag is still official, but that does not mean that it has the same standing as law. 
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2006, 11:48:39 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
What I meant was that the founding fathers considered the flag a symbol in the same way other institutions had emblems and symbols that represented them.  They only considered it as a form of representation, and to establish that symbol for themselves only they could make their symbol official.  The reason they had to make it official was so that other countries would know who we were.

As the context of a situation changes, things should be thought of with relation to the context and with consideration of the past intention.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2006, 01:21:08 am »
  • Why am I so indisicive?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 179
here's something I bet you never thought of....

You shouldn't burn flags because it's a waste of labor, material, and is bad for the ozone.

 8)
Logged
Meghan <3 Lederhosen!

Soy un perdedor. I???m a loser baby, so why don???t you kill me?

<('.'<)<)<)<)<)
  • deviant
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2006, 05:24:26 am »
  • Huzzowee!
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 571
The people who make the flags don't see it as a waste as long as they're getting paid for it and it deals such a minimal effect on the ozone that it's negligeable really. Either way, that has nothing to do with burning flags specifically, but rather the burning of any product.

As for burning flags, as far as I'm concerned it shouldn't be banned at all. A country's flag is the banner which represents it. It is the symbol of the country around which people will unify and recognize their pride. Americans seem to take that whole pride thing a bit far, but nonetheless that's what it is. The flag represents everything in and of the USA and therefore burning one or destroying one in any way is an incredibly strong gesture against that which the symbol stands for. In this case it's a protest against not one particular thing but the entirety of America. Its people, its cities, its customs, everything. I'm sure when someone burns a flag they don't consider the extent of their protest and maybe think they're just protesting the government or whatever, but regardless the burning of the flag is the protest of the whole. If, however, there is someone who protests all that America is and stands for, then by all means they should burn a flag and show it. This way they demonstrate their protest in a much stronger fashion than just saying it. It's like an effigy, only of something larger. On the flip side those who just burn flags and then enjoy the luxuries of America are acting hypocritically. Is hypocrisy wrong? I like to think so. Should they do it in those cases? No. But should the entire act of merely burning a flag be banned? Absolutely not. People should be free to express themselves in the best way they can as long and it causes no harm to anyone else. Burning a flag might get smoke in someone's eyes, but so could any other fire and you're not about to ban camping. If someone so strongly believes that the entirety of American society is wrong, then I say let them protest it in the strongest manner possible. Let them burn flags.
Logged
"They say 'Don't sweat the little things!', but in the end, the little things are all that matter..."
--Alex2539

tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2006, 08:44:10 pm »
Quote from: AlfSommers on August 03, 2006, 11:37:16 pm
I love America

Reason number one why you should be pissed off each and every time the government takes away more of your rights. In other words, LET PEOPLE BURN WHATEVER PIECE OF CLOTH THEY CHOOSE! (provided it cannot bring harm to others)
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2006, 09:26:21 pm »
  • Who's your favorite possum?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1378
Quote from: tippz on August 04, 2006, 08:44:10 pm
Quote from: AlfSommers on August 03, 2006, 11:37:16 pm
I love America

Reason number one why you should be pissed off each and every time the government takes away more of your rights. In other words, LET PEOPLE BURN WHATEVER PIECE OF CLOTH THEY CHOOSE! (provided it cannot bring harm to others)
In public and government areas.  It's really quite simply not a God-given freedom, and it's certainly not backed up by the constitution.  If someone burns a flag on my property, I'm going to sue them.  Shouldn't the public be allowed to say that there are some things that shouldn't be seen in THEIR tax-paid property?  You can't walk around nude in a public park.  It's expression!  Sure as hell is... but not something we want to see.

Let the public decide what they want to see in public, eh? :P
Logged

tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2006, 09:29:58 pm »
Right, in public areas like you say NO fire is allowed so why would there be an exception for flags? On your property too, people aren't allowed to just come on your front lawn and start a fire, so no they shouldn't be allowed to do that with flags there either. However, in any area where it is legal to burn things it should, by all means, be legal to burn flags too.

oh, and letting the public dicide isn't what this is about though. It is about the constitution and what rights is does and doesn't protect. The public has proven it is more than willing to take away rights it shouldn't
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 09:32:43 pm by tippz »
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2006, 09:32:40 pm »
  • Who's your favorite possum?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1378
Why?  There's a difference between walking around with clothes and walking around nude.

There's a difference between burning a dishcloth and burning a flag.  Or else why wouldn't they just burn a dishcloth instead?

Again: let the public decide what they are willing to see.  Similar philosiphy with the FCC.
Logged

tippz
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2006, 09:34:46 pm »
To PEOPLE there is a difference between a dishcloth and a flag. To the CONSTITUTION there is not. That is the point. It is form of expression and when done safely in an area where fire is legal, it is protected by the constitution.
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2006, 09:36:25 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +8/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6604
A ban against flag burning is opposed by Supreme Court cases (Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman) in which the ruling was that the government's interest in preserving a symbol does not outweigh the individual right to disparge that symbol through expressive conduct.  It was also said that punishing desecration of the flag dilutes the very freedom that makes this emblem so revered, and worth revering.  The government has no right to silence unpopular speech.

Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2006, 09:46:19 pm »
  • Who's your favorite possum?
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1378
Quote
A ban against flag burning is opposed by Supreme Court cases (Texas v. Johnson and United States v. Eichman) in which the ruling was that the government's interest in preserving a symbol does not outweigh the individual right to disparge that symbol through expressive conduct.  It was also said that punishing desecration of the flag dilutes the very freedom that makes this emblem so revered, and worth revering.  The government has no right to silence unpopular speech.
If it was merely a political statement that would be silenced by burning a flag, then I'd agree with you.  Images of terrorists burning American flags have been seen.  Burning a flag is in no way a political statement.  It's a statement of hate.

Or at least, that's how society looks at it.

There is a form of "expression" that is not protected by the constitution.  One could say, "I'm going to shoot the president" to a secret service person, and could be entirely joking, or not meaning that.  But they have to take it seriously and press charges, because it is dangerous and not protected by the constitution.

Burning an American flag certainly isn't a peaceful means or protest, it's confrontational (although not "violent" by definition).

Quote
To PEOPLE there is a difference between a dishcloth and a flag. To the CONSTITUTION there is not. That is the point. It is form of expression and when done safely in an area where fire is legal, it is protected by the constitution.
So what about people walking around nude?  What grounds do we have against that? :)
Logged
Re: Burning the flag of the USA in means of prot...
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2006, 09:59:26 pm »
  • IBV
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1075
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on August 04, 2006, 09:46:19 pm
Quote
To PEOPLE there is a difference between a dishcloth and a flag. To the CONSTITUTION there is not. That is the point. It is form of expression and when done safely in an area where fire is legal, it is protected by the constitution.
So what about people walking around nude?  What grounds do we have against that? :)
So maybe you should be allowed to walk around nude then? :D? (I'm not kidding o_O)
Logged
My signature is empty.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
« previous next »

 


Contact Us | Legal | Advertise Here
2013 © ZFGC, All Rights Reserved


Page created in 0.287 seconds with 73 queries.

anything