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Author Topic: Disproportionate force BS  (Read 5879 times)

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Disproportionate force BS
« on: August 02, 2006, 05:07:49 pm »
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I've been thinking about it, and it's no wonder that we're so anti-war, anti-guns, anti-self protection.  We're taught even in early elementary school that we're not allowed to defend ourselves.

I mean, if someone punches a kid in school, and they punch back, both of the kids get suspended.  We're taking away human rights from CHILDREN.  You just have to sit there and take someone beating you up, becuase retaliation will earn you suspension.

What kind of a sick, liberal school system is America in today?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 05:19:42 pm »
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Automatically blame the liberals.

Nice.


<3 you Possum
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 05:22:43 pm »
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Well, it's a liberal philosiphy.  I said 'liberal schoolsystem', not 'system run by liberals'.  Becuase it's a liberal philosiphy.

So what's the problem, other than you're usually a very angry person trying to make me look bad?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 05:24:55 pm »
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So what's the problem, other than you're usually a very angry person trying to make me look bad?
So what's the problem, other than you're usually a very angry person trying to make liberals look bad?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 05:26:36 pm »
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Quote from: Scooternew on August 02, 2006, 05:24:55 pm
Quote
So what's the problem, other than you're usually a very angry person trying to make me look bad?
So what's the problem, other than you're usually a very angry person trying to make liberals look bad?
It's a freaking liberal philosiphy.  And it's not MY fault that it's a liberal philosiphy.  It's BS and it's a liberal philosiphy.  Did I say liberals were the bad guys?  NO.  I said that the philosiphy is BS, and it is.  And it happens to be a liberal philosiphy.  A SICK liberal philosiphy.

[EDIT]Is EVERYONE too stupid to actually debate the topic at hand?  Does anyone care to actually address the debate, not attacking me on a personal level?  And I thought Swiftu was very much against "straw man" arguments ;)

Don't accuse me of Left vs. Right either, because if I had to choose between a paleo-conservative (ie. Clinton) and a liberal (ie. Lieberman), I'd vote the liberal in.

And it's not like I'm saying that Swiftu's a liberal either.  He's an isolationistic paleo-conservative when it comes to the war in Iraq.  I'm a neo-conservative, which means I demand a balance, becuase both sides have their ups and downs ;)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 06:01:08 pm by 2awesome4apossum »
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 06:01:32 pm »
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I agree about this, not just because being able to defend ourselves is logical, but also because its an urge that in restriction comes out in worse ways.
What should be shown is a discipline towards self (and others) defence: martial arts classes as standard - viola!

Also.. Duh people, just because possums saying this particular liberal philosiphy is silly to him, doesnt mean hes calling liberals silly. He wouldnt generalize like that, and clearly even liberals might not support all liberal philosiphies.
Dont have an act like a cow, man.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 06:04:31 pm by aab »
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 06:05:51 pm »
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Well, since both kids were fighting they should get punished.

You can't just punish the kid who punched first. It would set a bad example for the kid who hit back.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 06:09:58 pm »
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Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:05:51 pm
Well, since both kids were fighting they should get punished.

You can't just punish the kid who punched first. It would set a bad example for the kid who hit back.
It would set a bad example in that... he defended himself and got away with it?  Oh no! ;)

It's like murder vs. manslaughter... they're not the same thing, although both times, one killed someone.  We should look at these situation by situation, no?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 06:12:53 pm »
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Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:05:51 pm
Well, since both kids were fighting they should get punished.

You can't just punish the kid who punched first. It would set a bad example for the kid who hit back.

no it wouldn't. I knew this kid who got jumped getting off the bus by a group of people. What was he supposed to do? get pummled? Anyways he got kicked off the bus.

Unnessicarily continueing a huge brawl should be punished, but defending your self should not be. I'm certainly not going to take a beating if I could easily stop it.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 06:14:47 pm »
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Well, if it's just two little kids in school.

He may have defended himself but he still fought back. Fighting in school is against the rules.
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Ben
Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2006, 06:15:43 pm »
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You should only retaliate if you're in a corner :D, because then it's your only option as you cannot ruuuuuuuuun.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2006, 06:16:51 pm »
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Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:14:47 pm
Fighting in school is against the rules.
And I'm saying that it shouldn't be in PUBLIC schools. :)

Quote from: Ben on August 02, 2006, 06:15:43 pm
You should only retaliate if you're in a corner :D, because then it's your only option as you cannot ruuuuuuuuun.
You're not serious, by chance?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2006, 06:17:05 pm »
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isnt that just an easy way for schools to try to deal with bullying?
and then being anti war, is just obvious, as war is terrible, unless it's seriously needed because in the end, the good things will add up to overtake the bad things it causes?
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2006, 06:18:45 pm »
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Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on August 02, 2006, 06:16:51 pm
Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:14:47 pm
Fighting in school is against the rules.
Quote
And I'm saying that it shouldn't be in PUBLIC schools. :)

It shouldn't be against the rules to fight in school?

People could easily fight and blame it on the other kids.

aka "he started it"

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Ben
Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2006, 06:20:49 pm »
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I am serious, if I cannot run or get help and my only option is to hit back (if i've been hit) then I'd funking hit back. You've gotta stand up for yourself if your in a situation like that, I mean it depends who you are. It's get pumelled or get the same pummelling and give someone a black eye? I'd choose the latter. Why? Because I'm human, and I don't subject myself to the restrictions of christianity etc in the form of pacifism.

Starting fights is bad, but finishing them really shouldn't be.

Edit: The fact of the matter is, I know that I'd done right by defending myself, even if whatever judicial system doesn't agree, and anyone with any sense of "honour" wouldn't mind getting hit back if they were starting the fight.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2006, 06:21:56 pm »
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isnt that just an easy way for schools to try to deal with bullying?
It's an extremist position, that does not allow kids to defend themselves... good intentions?  Absolutely.  But again: the execution is what *really* counts.

Quote
and then being anti war, is just obvious, as war is terrible, unless it's seriously needed because in the end, the good things will add up to overtake the bad things it causes?
The philosiphy is that other people's freedom and democracy will bring our national security.  IE. we go in and beat the !@#$% out of the North Korean's government, we become much safer :)

Quote
It shouldn't be against the rules to fight in school?
Not with that wording, because it's an extremist position... certainly certain kinds of fighting should be.  Remember: fighting in self-defense is legal in public... why not in the public schools?

Quote
Starting fights is bad, but finishing them really shouldn't be.
Agreed.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2006, 06:22:04 pm »
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Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:18:45 pm
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on August 02, 2006, 06:16:51 pm
Quote from: FISSURE on August 02, 2006, 06:14:47 pm
Fighting in school is against the rules.
Quote
And I'm saying that it shouldn't be in PUBLIC schools. :)

It shouldn't be against the rules to fight in school?

People could easily fight and blame it on the other kids.

aka "he started it"



then the adult in charge should frickin' pay attention to what goes on.

seriously, that would have solved alot of my problems in school if teachers paid attention.

Not that I ever got in a fight, technically...I was punched once
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Ben
Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 06:23:24 pm »
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Teacher's can't be everywhere, so unfortunately it's the law of the playground, lol.
Just don't get into fights, it's as simple as then.
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2006, 06:24:40 pm »
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Quote from: Ben on August 02, 2006, 06:23:24 pm
Teacher's can't be everywhere, so unfortunately it's the law of the playground, lol.
Just don't get into fights, it's as simple as then.
Yes, especially when someone comes up to you unprovoked and nails you hard.

You could have avoided that by not existing.

Besides, we have supervisors, cameras... and let's face it... kids while they can be dishonest, you can find "witnesses" if neccessary.  Ever remember fights in your elementary schools?  Everyone saw what happened :)
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Re: Disproportionate force BS
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2006, 06:24:52 pm »
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1. If someone is defending themselves they shouldn't be punished.
2. If they are fighting they should.

Pretty obvious huh? But look at it through the teacher's eye. Depending on the situation  she maybe can't make it clear who was defending, attacking blah blah blah. So you see, it probably hasn't anything to do with liberal philosiphy. It's just that teachers can't do everything right. It's easier to take both and have a talk with them trying to sort it out (that's my motto; talking gets further than punishing in most cases), not blaming anyone until it is sorted out. It's just like the victim still goes to court (if s/he's still alive).

I can honestly don't see where anyone would want strict punishment on self defence. Meh, maybe it's just an american thing :P Oh, thank good NEITHER liberals nor moderate conservatives rules Sweden xD (We have socialistic government, which also sucks arse, so hopefully left party (revolutionary socialistic) gets more votes this year <.<)

Wow, 10 replys while writing. <.< Can't bother to read it again and risk getting more replies x_X
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