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Author Topic: Are Fan Games Legal?  (Read 11434 times)

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Nebetsu

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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2006, 07:43:08 pm »
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What about fair use? Doesn't that hold any water anymore?
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  • Yiddish Nebbish

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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2006, 08:23:50 pm »
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And also the loss to them making it more difficult and risky for them to make good games - Less quality in the games, and less official games.

Another thying to remmember is that although a game is made by a company of hundreds of people these days, there are still only a few at the top, designing all of the unique things in the game; These are their characters, their ideas, and they have they maturity not to whine about credit (...waits for partially insulted zfgcer ;) ).
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2006, 11:51:43 pm »
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Well technically no, companies usually won't care though. Because there are so many, it's hard to catch and stop everyone - and sometimes fan games are good for promoting the originals. The only bitching comes when you sell fan games, or the original company decides to be a !@#$% and thinks you are using their licences to much and will send a cease and desist letter, such as what happened with Chrono Resurrection, my all time favorite fan game. 3d remake of Chrono Trigger in C++, insane graphics/texturing, and the music was completely recomposed using modern technology. What an insanely awesome game.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2006, 02:42:19 am »
  • Minalien
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Nintendo I know in particular doesn't care. I sent an email to them about a year (?) ago, and they said they dont support fan recreations of their games, and, so long as the creators make no profit off of them, they wont shut the projects down or sue them. Even further, you're more likely to receive a cease & desist order than being sued, unless you ignore the cease & desist order, in which case you're a dumbass and deserve to be sued anyways xP
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2006, 02:47:04 am »
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they wont shut the projects down or sue them.
Well... that's not a rule, although it's certainly true in most cases... it just seems to be that they go after those who get popular and happen to be basing it off of a recent title, although there are exceptions.  >_>;;

*points to Zelda II Enhanced, Zelda III Clone, OpenZelda, Graal Online, etc.*
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2006, 03:00:04 am »
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Allow me to rephrase that, then. The person I talked to said something to the effect of 9.9/10 times, they wont bother shutting one down if it's making no profits
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2006, 03:01:30 am »
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LOL!  You knew what I meant ;)

I've seen the email (I believe it's prewritten for all who ask the question), and they simply say that they cannot endorse it and that's about it.  Of course, they imply that it's fine.
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Pedlya

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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2006, 04:46:38 am »
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im going to say this once and not have a long post

if you try to sell or make money in anyway from fan games = illegal
if you are making it for free distribution (freeware) = legal

no quarrel needed
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2006, 07:46:19 am »
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Quote from: Scooternew on September 27, 2006, 11:51:43 pm
Well technically no, companies usually won't care though. Because there are so many, it's hard to catch and stop everyone - and sometimes fan games are good for promoting the originals. The only bitching comes when you sell fan games, or the original company decides to be a !@#$% and thinks you are using their licences to much and will send a cease and desist letter, such as what happened with Chrono Resurrection, my all time favorite fan game. 3d remake of Chrono Trigger in C++, insane graphics/texturing, and the music was completely recomposed using modern technology. What an insanely awesome game.
Do you have maybe a screen(s) from it?
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 08:21:53 am »
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using other peoples intellectual property and possibly distributing things that use that intellectual property without permission = illegal

includes but not limited to fan games, fan art, screenshots etc.
the whole non-profit thing would never hold up, as you still have the ability to detract sales.

Companies usually only act when they feel that they could be at risk
Zelda II Enhanced could detract sales from the Nes Classic Edition of Zelda II for the GBA.
Zelda III Clone could detract sales from the re-release of Zelda III on the GBA.
OpenZelda, distributed with copywrited material and Makes Zelda Fan Games, nuff said.
Graal Online became P2P, no need to explain anything there.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2006, 09:00:47 am »
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Quote from: Hyrule_boy on September 27, 2006, 06:10:58 pm
Quote from: Helios on September 27, 2006, 05:40:49 pm
Quote from: Hyrule_boy on September 27, 2006, 03:25:47 pm
Quote from: Soulrivers on September 27, 2006, 02:00:39 pm
There was a member on ZFGC a while ago called tssf. (don't think he's here still) He and his team was making a Chrono Trigger remake in 3-D, and they were progressing very nicely, and it looked beautiful. As far as I know, it would have easily finished if Square Enix wouldn't have closed down the project. They weren't sued or anything, but I think if they would've kept going Square would've taken legal actions.
How pathetic! !@#$% you Square-Enix stupid money suckers.
And you would just sooo love people to steal your ideas wouldn't you.
lol if they already had that in mind why does it take ages before they start one? Its not fair from them to shut down a project made by fans. I'm happy Nintendo isn't so retarded.

Never heard of Graal?
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2006, 09:13:06 am »
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Quote from: Andrew on September 28, 2006, 09:00:47 am
Quote from: Hyrule_boy on September 27, 2006, 06:10:58 pm
Quote from: Helios on September 27, 2006, 05:40:49 pm
Quote from: Hyrule_boy on September 27, 2006, 03:25:47 pm
Quote from: Soulrivers on September 27, 2006, 02:00:39 pm
There was a member on ZFGC a while ago called tssf. (don't think he's here still) He and his team was making a Chrono Trigger remake in 3-D, and they were progressing very nicely, and it looked beautiful. As far as I know, it would have easily finished if Square Enix wouldn't have closed down the project. They weren't sued or anything, but I think if they would've kept going Square would've taken legal actions.
How pathetic! !@#$% you Square-Enix stupid money suckers.
And you would just sooo love people to steal your ideas wouldn't you.
lol if they already had that in mind why does it take ages before they start one? Its not fair from them to shut down a project made by fans. I'm happy Nintendo isn't so retarded.

Never heard of Graal?
Well I'm happy Nintendo shut them down because they where making money from copyrighted Material.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2006, 09:16:38 am »
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Quote from: Pedlya on September 28, 2006, 04:46:38 am
im going to say this once and not have a long post

if you try to sell or make money in anyway from fan games = illegal
if you are making it for free distribution (freeware) = legal

no quarrel needed

even though distributing copyrighted or trademarked property is illegal the above statement is a good "borderline" for us homeroom game programmers
so the moral here is do not ever start taking money for what you make
because if you do, someone will report you (yes there are people like that), and the Oot2D thing will happen over again
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2006, 01:49:47 pm »
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Quote from: Gonzo on September 28, 2006, 09:16:38 am
Quote from: Pedlya on September 28, 2006, 04:46:38 am
im going to say this once and not have a long post

if you try to sell or make money in anyway from fan games = illegal
if you are making it for free distribution (freeware) = legal

no quarrel needed

even though distributing copyrighted or trademarked property is illegal the above statement is a good "borderline" for us homeroom game programmers
so the moral here is do not ever start taking money for what you make
because if you do, someone will report you (yes there are people like that), and the Oot2D thing will happen over again

"OOT2D thing"? the original (and I use the term referring to TRM's version of it) OOT2D was never shut down, TRM just never finished it :/

Anyways, it seems that two main points seem to just get repeated over and over:
Yes, it's illegal
No, chances are, you wont be sued unless you're making a profit, and regardless, you'll usually get a cease & desist order before being sued.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2006, 03:04:21 pm »
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Quote from: MiNalien on September 28, 2006, 01:49:47 pm
"OOT2D thing"? the original (and I use the term referring to TRM's version of it) OOT2D was never shut down, TRM just never finished it :/
Thats because he is still working on it.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2006, 03:08:11 pm »
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They really are,but who is going to stop anybody?If nintendo told me to stop any of my five fangames,id ignore it.if you dont sell the fangame,they have nothing to sue for.And,anyways,they would also need to close down this place along with MANY others.

Linkw
p.s.OOT2d was halted by nintendo(its true),but trm was smarter.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 03:09:54 pm by linkw204 »
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2006, 03:10:45 pm »
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Quote from: linkw204 on September 28, 2006, 03:08:11 pm
They really arent,but who is going to stop anybody?If nintendo told me to stop any of my five fangames,id ignore it.if you dont sell the fangame,they have nothing to sue for.And,anyways,they would also need to close down this place along with MANY others.

Linkw
The truth of the matter is this: If you didn't cease and desist after orderred, they could very easily sue you, and they would have every right to do so. And furthermore, they wouldn't *have* to shut down anything just because they'd shut down yours. The thing is, however, your projects probably will never get so far as Nintendo ever even noticing them, much less attempting to shut them down, but if the unreasonably low odds happen to be hit and they do give you a cease and desist order, the only smart thing to do would be to do as they order.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2006, 05:47:17 pm »
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Quote from: linkw204 on September 28, 2006, 03:08:11 pm
They really are,but who is going to stop anybody?If nintendo told me to stop any of my five fangames,id ignore it.if you dont sell the fangame,they have nothing to sue for.And,anyways,they would also need to close down this place along with MANY others.

Linkw
p.s.OOT2d was halted by nintendo(its true),but trm was smarter.
Um, no, Yahoo! closed TRM's hosting account because they were afraid of legal troubles. but Nintendo did not shut down OOT2d. Besides, even if they did, there is no way TRM would be/is "smarter" than an enormous company and no way he could have avoided it.

But, another few reasons that you are unlikely to be prosecuted: One is that copyrighted game media is used far more for other things like sprite comics, background music, etc. for things unrelated to fangames. Another is that probably due to lack of real motivation, seldom do reasonably high-quality fangames get completed. And another is that the technology is way behind. Look at us here. We're mostly making LTTP-style games. Some people are making Gameboy-style games. the truth is that that technology is long gone, and that whatever Nintendo produces, even if it's terrible by their standards, will beat the best fan game out there - even if only because of big brand-name recognition.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2006, 12:09:55 pm »
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Quote from: linkw204 on September 28, 2006, 03:08:11 pm
They really are,but who is going to stop anybody?If nintendo told me to stop any of my five fangames,id ignore it.if you dont sell the fangame,they have nothing to sue for.And,anyways,they would also need to close down this place along with MANY others.
You can be sued for using resources from the Zelda games and the "The Legend of Zelda" title. (TLOZ is a trademark brand)

Quote from: Wikipedia
Some companies go out of their way to shut down fangames, declaring them copyright infringements. Such shutdown has been believed to have a chilling effect on free speech, where amateur developers can't predict what a court will find as fair use. The term "foxed" is often used to describe these incidents, stemming from the original coining of the term from 20th Century Fox's shut down of an Aliens-themed total conversion of Doom. In the vast majority of cases, the original copyright holders have full legal justification to order a cease and desist upon fangame projects, as by definition, fangames are unauthorized infringing uses of copyrighted property. Many fangames go as far as taking music and graphics directly from the original games.

Quote from: linkw204
Linkw
p.s.OOT2d was halted by nintendo(its true),but trm was smarter.
TRM's website was shut down by Yahoo! not Nintendo.
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Re: Are Fan Games Legal?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2006, 04:43:19 pm »
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I have a more interesting question now. Hypothetically, if I were to make a zelda fangame, but used custom sprites, tiles, sounds, etc. and did not include the name The Legend of Zelda in my game, would it be a legal game now? Because, each new Zelda game uses new characters, assuming I did the same, I wouldn't use any of the same characters. Arguably, I would be using Link, however, almost all Zelda games allow you to choose your own name and then refer to you using that name. If I did the same, then it would be left entirely up to the user to call themselves Link, so I wouldn't be infringing copyrights there. Can games be deemed illegal due simply to similarities?
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