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[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Organization Changes

I can't speak for everyone, but after OoT 2D died down i stayed for the community, not the game development. Even after that Project X debacle and fusing with DSR, then splitting with DSR, what brought me back was the community, not game development. You're cutting out some of ZFGC's organs. Then to top it all off, you say we're not needed if we don't want to develop something or aren't really interested in a lot of the "fan games" and such here. That's a huge !@#$% slap in the face to a lot of people.

[Aliento]

Aliento

Re: Organization Changes

Its like removing a cancer from your foot that's kept you from running to train for being a track star

Except nobody likes cancer. Most people enjoyed OT and Debate.

This is like surgically removing the bones in your feet, so you can run faster.

This is like a huge "!@#$% you" to a lot of people, me included. This is a great place to post about a lot of things, and yet you're changing that. Trying to force the hand of development won't work.

I agree fully. In fact, if the administrations doesn't reverse this decision, I'm taking my Zelda fangame to a forum with admins who know what the !@#$% they're doing.

We may as well call it "Small Forum Populated by a Few People Who Make Fangames, Mostly About Zelda, But More Often Talk About Other Nintendo Franchises Central"
"SFPFPWMF,MAZ,BMOTAONFC" for short.

[Kyubi]

Kyubi

Re: Organization Changes

To me this will kill the community off. While yes I understand wanting to increase the development of games on this forum, this isn't the best way to go about it :/

Just for the record; I agree.

Then why not do something about it? Aren't you the one in charge here?

Gannon-banned brother.

[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: Organization Changes

I agree fully. In fact, if the administrations doesn't reverse this decision, I'm taking my Zelda fangame to a forum with admins who know what the !@#$% they're doing.

I don't mean to start anything up but I don't think that's a very fair comment to make. As much as it enrages people that they're taking down forums people like, they're TRYING to get development to boost. You can't blame them for acting and trying to improve something...

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[Scooternew]

Scooternew

Re: Organization Changes

I agree. Even though I'm interested in development, I don't think everyone else should have to be. You can center a forum around development whilst allowing people to discuss about other things, as well. Those people who don't come here for the games might as well leave now.

Yeah, I guess the admins are trying...but this is a bad, bad move.

[Dracon]

Dracon

Re: Organization Changes

I agree fully. In fact, if the administrations doesn't reverse this decision, I'm taking my Zelda fangame to a forum with admins who know what the !@#$% they're doing.

I'm amazed by admins that think they can solve !@#$% by hurting the community. After DSR died and DSWii took it's place, it started gradually dying, but the final blow really came from shitty management, when bad mods like ValiumMan would lock every thread that went remotely off-topic because they thought that it would help the community... somehow.
Anyway, I don't see how having a forum that people can actually !@#$% enjoy is going to stop the programmers from making games. I personally don't make games, as my game programming skills are limited to the most basic of GML, but I do enjoy having fangames around and sampling them. Even though none of the big fangames are ever completed, I expect it, because it's a big feat to take on as a hobby. What really brings me here is the community, which has a collection of very interesting people and enjoyable discussions, many of which existed on boards that the administration just eliminated.
I do agree with those who say that the removing of non-pro fangame boards is a slap in the face to many of us. It's like saying "make games or GTFO".

I think the admins should realize that the reason why no big projects are ever finished is not that we're having to much fun in the community, but that fangames require a tremendous amount of time, effort, skill, and dedication to a level that most people just do not have. You can't change that by making the forum boring. It's just that a lot of us have the time to dedicate to forum conversations and not the time to fleshing out a whole Zelda game.

And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Organization Changes

Of all the boards you deleted, could you !@#$% please delete the ZFGC Weekly and Big Question Archive board?  I have asked nearly every administrator over the course of a month, some more than once.  I even readied the board for deletion for you.  Even if you are not going to make the News public, and that is fine if you are not, could you please delete the obsolete?

The development changes are not perfect, but they are alright to some degree.  The separation of advertising and recruitment to just recruitment is a good change; one that I favored in the past as well.  If people have a good website that they want people to know about, they can link it in their signature or if it is theirs, they can ask for affiliation.

The separation of the WIP section to be both Zelda and Other also seems like a regressive step to me honestly.  I understand the distinction of projects and our focus or whatever, but once you make it seem as Zelda games are the only ones that matter, Zelda fan games get boring.  I don't know, with some of the other changes it might be appropriate.

As for the Graphics section, something that needs to end there is requesting, or it needs to be clarified as where to request graphics.  Should it be either Resource Discussion or the Graphics section itself? 

As for the current Community Project that I guess is not official, I have been asking to be made local moderator of that board so I can at least work on salvaging it.  Even if you don't like the project, to completely give up on it seems counter-productive; even if it were to fail, putting in a position to where the work done on it could be dispersed easily would help everyone out. 

Also, a manner of semantics, move the Community Projects board to be above the Projects board as to signify that they matter more to our focus - not to mention it would look better.  And alter the board descriptions of both development boards.  If you need help moving non-Zelda games to the Other Development board, I can also help you if you temporarily make me a local moderator of that board as well.

[Theforeshadower]

Theforeshadower

Re: Organization Changes

I think the admins should realize that the reason why no big projects are ever finished is not that we're having to much fun in the community, but that fangames require a tremendous amount of time, effort, skill, and dedication to a level that most people just do not have. You can't change that by making the forum boring. It's just that a lot of us have the time to dedicate to forum conversations and not the time to fleshing out a whole Zelda game.

But the other main issue that I have seen over the years as to why "huge" zelda projects never get finished is the lack of help from the community.
I prunned some more of the WIP section last night and you would not believe how many projects were canceled from some of the more-known members that used to come here simply because no one wanted to help.  Some needed spriters, some needed composers.  For some reason, ZFGCers with talent just like to hoard it away for themselves(most of the time, not always).  Yeah you post some spritesheets for everyone, but a member who is known to be a good programmer requests for someone to help them sprite a game and no one except a couple newbs reply to the request.  Then you wonder why for a while it seemed, we were getting projects with nasty mix-matched graphics.

I said that to say this:
This is/was supposed to be a development forum.  Yeah we got a great community here, but what's the point of us even keeping the community if we never contribute to the development aspect?  Other than a few of us, mostly new users like to post in the WIP(now Zelda projects) section.  They may be young and inexperienced, so for some reason we justify calling their projects horrible, lame, laughable, etc.  You started somewhere too.


Also, the Other Discussion is gone.  Maybe we as members should show that we want it back.  Show more efforts in the areas of development, spriting, engines, etc.
I'm pretty sure that Vash would probably bring the boards back if he actaully saw members posting more in those sections.

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[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Organization Changes

I think the admins should realize that the reason why no big projects are ever finished is not that we're having to much fun in the community, but that fangames require a tremendous amount of time, effort, skill, and dedication to a level that most people just do not have. You can't change that by making the forum boring. It's just that a lot of us have the time to dedicate to forum conversations and not the time to fleshing out a whole Zelda game.

But the other main issue that I have seen over the years as to why "huge" zelda projects never get finished is the lack of help from the community.
I prunned some more of the WIP section last night and you would not believe how many projects were canceled from some of the more-known members that used to come here simply because no one wanted to help.  Some needed spriters, some needed composers.  For some reason, ZFGCers with talent just like to hoard it away for themselves(most of the time, not always).  Yeah you post some spritesheets for everyone, but a member who is known to be a good programmer requests for someone to help them sprite a game and no one except a couple newbs reply to the request.  Then you wonder why for a while it seemed, we were getting projects with nasty mix-matched graphics.

I said that to say this:
This is/was supposed to be a development forum.  Yeah we got a great community here, but what's the point of us even keeping the community if we never contribute to the development aspect?  Other than a few of us, mostly new users like to post in the WIP(now Zelda projects) section.  They may be young and inexperienced, so for some reason we justify calling their projects horrible, lame, laughable, etc.  You started somewhere too.


Also, the Other Discussion is gone.  Maybe we as members should show that we want it back.  Show more efforts in the areas of development, spriting, engines, etc.
I'm pretty sure that Vash would probably bring the boards back if he actaully saw members posting more in those sections.

We shouldn't have to "prove" that we want them back. This is a forum, not a classroom, we're not here to prove anything. If that's the case, then it would be forcing us to do something to get something back. It just doesn't work.

[Dracon]

Dracon

Re: Organization Changes

FISSURE is right. If you deliberately downgrade the enjoyability of the community, the only thing that's going to happen is that people are going to lose interest in ZFGC, in terms of both community and game development, and go elsewhere.

And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.

[Infinitus]

Infinitus

Re: Organization Changes

To me this will kill the community off. While yes I understand wanting to increase the development of games on this forum, this isn't the best way to go about it :/

Just for the record; I agree.

Then why not do something about it? Aren't you the one in charge here?

Nope, thats Vash.

I wasen't even involved in a discussion about this :S

[Jeod]

Jeod

Re: Organization Changes

Maybe if more members dd get involved with these discussions, there wouldn't be much arguing and crying afterwards. Me, Pyrazor, Vash, and 4Sword seemed to be the only ones discussing the forum remodeling in earlier topics. If you don't like the changes, then join in and discuss how to resolve the big problem: Mass cancelation of fan games

"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
___________________________________

Zelda GBC+ Engine for Multimedia Fusion 2

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[Vash]

Vash

Re: Organization Changes

Dracon:

THIS IS NOT DSR (Just in case you weren't aware).

FISSURE, I don't enjoy the community. I think it's a giant waste of 20 dollars a month. All I see is people with hurt feelings, people yelling at each other, people whining about !@#$%, I don't see anything that the purpose of this forum is for, which is game development.

I think I drew the line when LynkW died. Sure he was annoying, but who isn't at a young age? We all were (aside from maybe Kirby). But the disrespect this community has even in the death of one of our members? The only reason a lot of us are here is to troll and cause problems. I'd rather see this place be productive and healthy than a pile of crap.

I understand how it's like 'cutting out the guts', but perhaps the guts need to be earned back by people who give a !@#$%, not about people who don't do anything to bring the community along. -- Fissure you were a driving force back in the day, what happened to that?

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Jeod]

Jeod

Re: Organization Changes

Dracon:

THIS IS NOT DSR (Just in case you weren't aware).

FISSURE, I don't enjoy the community. I think it's a giant waste of 20 dollars a month. All I see is people with hurt feelings, people yelling at each other, people whining about !@#$%, I don't see anything that the purpose of this forum is for, which is game development.

I think I drew the line when LynkW died. Sure he was annoying, but who isn't at a young age? We all were (aside from maybe Kirby). But the disrespect this community has even in the death of one of our members? The only reason a lot of us are here is to troll and cause problems. I'd rather see this place be productive and healthy than a pile of crap.

I understand how it's like 'cutting out the guts', but perhaps the guts need to be earned back by people who give a !@#$%, not about people who don't do anything to bring the community along. -- Fissure you were a driving force back in the day, what happened to that?

Qft. I too was disgusted at the replies to that topic.

"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
___________________________________

Zelda GBC+ Engine for Multimedia Fusion 2

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[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Organization Changes

Can I get a resolution to a concern I keep asking about: can you please delete the ZFGC Weekly and Big Question Archive boards or tell me why you are not willing or able? 

Also:

Can the Official ZFGC Projects board be moved about the Projects board, and can the Zelda Development description be changed?  Where do you request graphics at?  Do you need help moving non-Zelda projects to the Other Development and if so could I be of help?  Can I be made a local moderator of the Community Project board (not the new board) so I can work in getting that revived?

[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: Organization Changes

Dracon:

THIS IS NOT DSR (Just in case you weren't aware).

FISSURE, I don't enjoy the community. I think it's a giant waste of 20 dollars a month. All I see is people with hurt feelings, people yelling at each other, people whining about !@#$%, I don't see anything that the purpose of this forum is for, which is game development.

I think I drew the line when LynkW died. Sure he was annoying, but who isn't at a young age? We all were (aside from maybe Kirby). But the disrespect this community has even in the death of one of our members? The only reason a lot of us are here is to troll and cause problems. I'd rather see this place be productive and healthy than a pile of crap.

I understand how it's like 'cutting out the guts', but perhaps the guts need to be earned back by people who give a !@#$%, not about people who don't do anything to bring the community along. -- Fissure you were a driving force back in the day, what happened to that?

Qft. I too was disgusted at the replies to that topic.

As was I. I was horrified by some of the responses I read, !@#$% about suicide being retarded. I'm not getting back into this.

I somewhat agree with what Vash has been saying; why should we have community forums if all people do is act annoying? I can definitely say that I have not been impressed with a lot of peoples' attitudes on these forums, and I tried pinpointing it with young age but that may not be the case. Why should such boards be open to the sight of new members? It's almost embarassing to see such an attitude being shown from the community. The only reason why I wasn't driven away was because I was a member of the past ZFGC and I know there is more to these boards than trolling and rude members.

Whining and insulting the Administrators is not going to do much. Like I said in a previous post, they're actually doing something to try and improve the development atmosphere of this forum. Hey, taking down amusing boards may be a little harsh/rash/silly, but in their opinion, that's what will enforce development to be the main concentration of these boards. You should have all seen this coming; I've been reading that thread Jeod mentioned earlier since it was made, and even tried making some suggestions.

Why can't people just suck it up and try being more active in development? As mentioned before, you don't have to be a programmer or a graphics designer to take part. Making suggestions, playing the games, and critiquing is good enough, isn't it? Actually, for development, generally software engineers have to follow the "customer's always right": the opinions, wants, and needs from the people playing these games in development is crucial to a good finishing product.

• 

[Vash]

Vash

Re: Organization Changes

If I needed help, I'd ask. I needed sleep so I went to bed, I just woke up.

I don't know what boards your referencing, which is why I've never deleted them.

No you don't need to be a local moderator at the moment. I figured one of the three or four requests you sent into every administrator was answered by now, but apparently not.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Organization Changes

If I needed help, I'd ask. I needed sleep so I went to bed, I just woke up.

I don't know what boards your referencing, which is why I've never deleted them.

No you don't need to be a local moderator at the moment. I figured one of the three or four requests you sent into every administrator was answered by now, but apparently not.

You don't know what boards I am talking about, nor did anyone else know what I was referring to?  You made me a local moderator of the Big Question Archive when I was moving topics out of there to the News.  Don't give me that crap saying you did not know what at least that one was.  Earnestly, I just think you don't care, nor did anyone else.

http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=274.0
http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=275.0

They were at the top of the page under ZFGC.com


And no, I was not responded to by any administrator.  I was trying to help with something and I was ignored, time and time again because no one gave a !@#$%.  I would need to be a local moderator of that board to change things around in it and to manage it, and the team members of the project were all fine with me doing such.

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: Organization Changes

Dracon:

THIS IS NOT DSR (Just in case you weren't aware).

FISSURE, I don't enjoy the community. I think it's a giant waste of 20 dollars a month. All I see is people with hurt feelings, people yelling at each other, people whining about !@#$%, I don't see anything that the purpose of this forum is for, which is game development.

I think I drew the line when LynkW died. Sure he was annoying, but who isn't at a young age? We all were (aside from maybe Kirby). But the disrespect this community has even in the death of one of our members? The only reason a lot of us are here is to troll and cause problems. I'd rather see this place be productive and healthy than a pile of crap.

I understand how it's like 'cutting out the guts', but perhaps the guts need to be earned back by people who give a !@#$%, not about people who don't do anything to bring the community along. -- Fissure you were a driving force back in the day, what happened to that?

Every forum has people yelling and whining, it's a forum,  not the united nations. A driving force back in the day? Aha, all i did was post, just like a lot of people. The driving force back in the day was pretty much OoT 2D. You're basically pushing the forum into sink or swim mode.

Dracon:

THIS IS NOT DSR (Just in case you weren't aware).

FISSURE, I don't enjoy the community. I think it's a giant waste of 20 dollars a month. All I see is people with hurt feelings, people yelling at each other, people whining about !@#$%, I don't see anything that the purpose of this forum is for, which is game development.

I think I drew the line when LynkW died. Sure he was annoying, but who isn't at a young age? We all were (aside from maybe Kirby). But the disrespect this community has even in the death of one of our members? The only reason a lot of us are here is to troll and cause problems. I'd rather see this place be productive and healthy than a pile of crap.

I understand how it's like 'cutting out the guts', but perhaps the guts need to be earned back by people who give a !@#$%, not about people who don't do anything to bring the community along. -- Fissure you were a driving force back in the day, what happened to that?

Qft. I too was disgusted at the replies to that topic.

As was I. I was horrified by some of the responses I read, !@#$% about suicide being retarded. I'm not getting back into this.

I somewhat agree with what Vash has been saying; why should we have community forums if all people do is act annoying? I can definitely say that I have not been impressed with a lot of peoples' attitudes on these forums, and I tried pinpointing it with young age but that may not be the case. Why should such boards be open to the sight of new members? It's almost embarassing to see such an attitude being shown from the community. The only reason why I wasn't driven away was because I was a member of the past ZFGC and I know there is more to these boards than trolling and rude members.

Whining and insulting the Administrators is not going to do much. Like I said in a previous post, they're actually doing something to try and improve the development atmosphere of this forum. Hey, taking down amusing boards may be a little harsh/rash/silly, but in their opinion, that's what will enforce development to be the main concentration of these boards. You should have all seen this coming; I've been reading that thread Jeod mentioned earlier since it was made, and even tried making some suggestions.

Why can't people just suck it up and try being more active in development? As mentioned before, you don't have to be a programmer or a graphics designer to take part. Making suggestions, playing the games, and critiquing is good enough, isn't it? Actually, for development, generally software engineers have to follow the "customer's always right": the opinions, wants, and needs from the people playing these games in development is crucial to a good finishing product.

Because even if any of the games were actually completed, it would take a awhile if they were good. It seems a lot of the game makers don't really have that much time to put into making a complete game. Never the less one that is actually good, depending on the type of game and such.

[Vash]

Vash

Re: Organization Changes

If I needed help, I'd ask. I needed sleep so I went to bed, I just woke up.

I don't know what boards your referencing, which is why I've never deleted them.

No you don't need to be a local moderator at the moment. I figured one of the three or four requests you sent into every administrator was answered by now, but apparently not.

You don't know what boards I am talking about, nor did anyone else know what I was referring to?  You made me a local moderator of the Big Question Archive when I was moving topics out of there to the News.  Don't give me that crap saying you did not know what at least that one was.  Earnestly, I just think you don't care, nor did anyone else.

http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=274.0
http://www.zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=275.0

They were at the top of the page under ZFGC.com


And no, I was not responded to by any administrator.  I was trying to help with something and I was ignored, time and time again because no one gave a !@#$%.  I would need to be a local moderator of that board to change things around in it and to manage it, and the team members of the project were all fine with me doing such.

Fixed. I truly wasn't paying attention to which boards actually needed deleted

I popped my head on the community project board too for a moment. I wasn't aware that all of those people had mod access. (Which I really didn't want..) but I added yours anyway. I'll need to rope you in on some things we discussed in the past regarding Community Projects. Ideally they're to be housed under "ZFGC Official Projects". I don't want the community to be limited to one community project. Essentially they'll be 'endorsed' ZFGC projects.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100