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Author Topic: Mapping the Overworld  (Read 19842 times)

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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2009, 02:43:31 am »
  • RyuKage2007
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@Jeod: Thanks for the compliment :)

@4sword: Well, I could give you the sheet I used if that might help too. Here it is:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3898/mcmastersheettiles.png

If you do want to use that Mabe Village just give me a list of stuff to do to make it usable.
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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2009, 04:52:47 am »
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Those sheets weren't really meant for Game Maker. :P The tree tops need to be separate from the tree trunk like in MC. This also applies to the roof tops being separate from the house base. VBA shows how this is done in the map viewer tool. eg. The tree top is over Link while the trunk is a layer lower. I think I'll start ripping.
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  • Pyxosoft
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2009, 08:36:16 am »
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So, you guys want any help? Heres my MC mabe village:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5766/mabevillagemc.png


It is a nice mock-up of Mabe Village, but I don't agree with some of the buildings and some of the cliffs you have chosen. But that is a discussion for later. We are still working on some guidelines to prevent a lot of redo work in the future. One of those guidelines is the resources used. Did you make that tilesheet yourself? We appreciate your help and love to have it, but please don't go ahead of yourselves, until the major things are settled.

A lot of the features on it look nice; I like the fact that deviations were taken so that parts didn't seem too square, but I am unsure of whether or not parts of it seem too wide or too big, if that makes sense. As for the question of usability, the buildings, trees, and possibly the hills would have to be re-ripped for the area's master tile sheet - in addition, the objects on the map would have to be removed (bushes, doors, signs, rocks, twig roots, etc.)

So if I understand correct, we have the map has to be build up in a few layers (2?). One layer is the background. This contains the tree trunks, walls, cliffs, fences and other stuff that Link doesn't really interact with, but does influence Link, objects and other characters movements. Additionally, this layer contains the decorations, like the greens, flowers, stone steps, stairs and dirt roads. And finally this layer contains the cut versions of plants, high grass, uprooted signs and removed rocks.

The second layer contains the objects that don't influence Link but are painted over him to show depth. Like the tree tops, roofs and other high up stuff.

Stuff that Link interacts with are made as objects in the world. Examples, high grass, plants, rocks, sign posts and other characters. What about doors and doorposts?


PS: As no one objects to the first set guidelines I assume I can put them in the first post.
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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2009, 02:16:56 pm »
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The tilesheet he provided is a combination of the Minish Cap RPGMaker sheets I created when the game first came out. Except with my name wiped off of it. XD

http://www.pyxosoft.com/forums/index.php?topic=9.0

That's why I happen to know they aren't good sheets for this game. They were specifically made with RPGMaker 2000/2003 in mind. Since you can only get so much in a tileset with that program. What you said is spot on though. Doors would be interactive objects. You'll need 4sword's final nod on that one, just in case I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2009, 03:52:39 pm »
  • RyuKage2007
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@Xfixium: Sorry about the name being off your sheet :P those have been on my computer for a long time and I forgot whose they were.

@Niek: Well, I made the mock-up awhile ago just for fun and decided to post it to see what you guys thought.

EDIT: I had an idea for how we should do the mapping, I think we should put together a small GM file with all the tile sheets and then pass it out to the mappers and have them each do a different part (one person does mabe village, another toronto shores, etc.) then merge them into the main file to use them. sound like a good idea?

EDIT2: Thought I'd post this:
http://portfolio16.de/zelda/map4/map_en.htm
Its a really useful interactive map of the game that I used when I tried remaking LA.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 08:33:49 pm by RyuKage2007 »
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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2009, 08:47:52 pm »
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Sorry about my delay in responding to these topics. In addition to having to deal with user behavior on this forum, I am working on simplifying and reworking Goodnight's movement engine for the Community Project's Engine.

As for how maps will be implemented. Essentially they will be mockups. If the mockup is good enough, it can be put into a Game Maker 7 file so others can work on it. The only thing that would be needed in each Game Maker 7 file would be the background resource set as a tile sheet and a room that contains the layering concept I mentioned made from those tiles. I do not think that it would need all times and if all tiles were used from each map, it could lead to possible issues with redundant tiles in multiple background files.

But yeah, Niek, as for layering it is mostly two layers. The first and second layers are what you said pretty much, there is sometimes a higher third layer and then sometimes there is a foreground overlay which is kind of like a fourth layer.
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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2009, 09:22:27 pm »
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Take your time responding :), I noticed you were dealing with the "make zelda game" topic, must be kind of annoying dealing with that kinda stuff all the time. So, the plan is (once the tile sheets are set up) we'll make mock-ups of the areas, show them to everyone on here, and if it looks good, transfer it into GM? Sounds like a good plan.

Is there anything I can do know to help until the resources and guidelines are all setup?
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Miles07

Knight of ERA
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2009, 10:42:20 pm »
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So if I understand correct, we have the map has to be build up in a few layers (2?). One layer is the background. This contains the tree trunks, walls, cliffs, fences and other stuff that Link doesn't really interact with, but does influence Link, objects and other characters movements. Additionally, this layer contains the decorations, like the greens, flowers, stone steps, stairs and dirt roads. And finally this layer contains the cut versions of plants, high grass, uprooted signs and removed rocks.

The second layer contains the objects that don't influence Link but are painted over him to show depth. Like the tree tops, roofs and other high up stuff.

Stuff that Link interacts with are made as objects in the world. Examples, high grass, plants, rocks, sign posts and other characters. What about doors and doorposts?

Shouldn't the stairs be included in the "objects" category, too? I remember in TMC that small cliffs and hills can force Link to look like he's moving slower, so wouldn't that technically be separated from the rest of the map in order for that to be coded correctly?
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Zelda Items Spritesheet album (OUT OF DATE) - (link here)
A Link Across Time project - (link here)
Boss Keys project (Metroid) - (link here)
Boss Keys project (Zelda) - (link here)
Boss Keys project Trello Board - (link here)
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2009, 12:46:27 am »
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I am not so sure that stairs would have to be objects like that. There would be tiles since the stairs are beneath Link and they do not really change their appearance at all. There would also probably be invisible objects representing stairs; in the same way that invisible walls provide something solid to run into.
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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2009, 02:35:59 am »
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So, what can I do to help move things along? I wanna map out some more stuff :).

Off-Topic Sorta:
Got bored and did a recolor of one of the photos:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png
What do you guys think?
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Miles07

Knight of ERA
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2009, 05:39:40 am »
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Meh. I'm gonna say: In order for it to be acceptable for the TMC-style, everything should look like it'd belong to the TMC/TWW/PH/FS/FSA world. EVERYTHING. Even the pictures. But I don't know what they'll plan on doing with the pictures, since the project's still quite young.
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I was talking to my friend last night, and he was mentioning about how in 1980, he thought the internet would become this amazing place where people from across the world would share ideas. I was telling him about how this project [KOT] has worked, lurching along for years and drawn by different people from across the globe, and he thought it was beautiful. And he was right, it's awesome. :D

Zelda Items Spritesheet album (OUT OF DATE) - (link here)
A Link Across Time project - (link here)
Boss Keys project (Metroid) - (link here)
Boss Keys project (Zelda) - (link here)
Boss Keys project Trello Board - (link here)
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2009, 07:06:27 am »
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So, what can I do to help move things along? I wanna map out some more stuff :).

Off-Topic Sorta:
Got bored and did a recolor of one of the photos:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png
What do you guys think?

RyuuKage2007 nice recolor, but like Miles07 said, it should fit MC style. But I'm more focused on getting to the first dungeon first. If you want to do something to help. You could start with ripping resources from Minish Cap Roms. VBARipper can help you in that department.

4Sword, I have some doubt about that we need every single tile from the Minish Cap and some tiles have to be custom made, because there isn't a correct equivalent in MC. So I think we best can map the overworld and extract from that the necessary tiles and put those in a tile sheet. Eliminating duplicate tiles and adding the new ones. We would be making 2 tilesheets. One for the background and 1 for the forground. I don't think LA made use of overlays, unless you want to add them for the woods and swamp or something.
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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2009, 01:29:08 pm »
  • RyuKage2007
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Haven't tried ripping anything before, guess I'll give it a try.

As for the photo, I was just kinda bored and felt like doing something related to LA :).
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Jeod

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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2009, 01:32:00 pm »
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Just take images of random areas and put them through this thing. Then make proper tilesets out of them. However, the output file may be a bit big. You'll have to manually delete duplicate tiles.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 01:42:32 pm by Jeod »
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Ryuza

That one guy
Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2009, 01:41:32 pm »
  • RyuKage2007
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Thanks for the files :), I'll go give it a try.

EDIT: Tried ripping, not a fan, lol. If you guys are okay with it I'm just gonna work on perfecting Mabe Village and (hopefully) making it usable, I realize that it will need to be gone over again once the final resources are put together but I'm fine with doing that, I had to re-do the entire village a few times when I was working on it for my own remake (kept switching tile sheets :P).

EDIT2: Once again getting ahead of things :P
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5979/lamcopeningarea.png
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 12:13:34 am by RyuKage2007 »
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Jeod

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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 02:18:20 am »
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Well if it won't be used in-game, at least it's a good visual.
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Ryuza

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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 02:23:41 am »
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Yeah, I'm just kinda bored atm. I really want to do some work on this project buts theres not much I can do :P
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Jeod

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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 02:28:44 am »
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Can you draw sprite rehashes of LA characters in MC style?
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Ryuza

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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 02:32:37 am »
  • RyuKage2007
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I could give it a try :).

EDIT: Did a few recolors/edits/etc. Not the best work I know, just thought I'd post them, the Madam MeowMeow one isn't too good but the other two look fine in my opinion.

Should I start a new topic and get all the character sprites together?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 04:01:11 am by RyuKage2007 »
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Re: Mapping the Overworld
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2009, 11:37:57 am »
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It is a good idea, but just recoloring won't be enough. It has to be in MC style as well. A number of the NPC's can be found in The Minish Cap. NPC's like Mr. Wright and Syrup the Witch. Those will have to be ripped.

BACK TO TOPIC:

OK. A week has passed and everyone has been able to say their thoughts. And to get the ball rolling on the mapping. From what I've seen  up here the following guidelines are the best:

Quote
Map creation
What we create is a bit a mock-up, but the tile set for the game will be compiled from this. The map  will exist of two layers one layer created as a background and one as a foreground. The background will have the following elements
  • Stuff that only impedes links movements: Tree trunks, walls of buildings, cliffs (land and water), fences and rocks.
  • ground tiles, like grass and sand.
  • Road tiles like dirt roads and pavement tiles.
  • Decorations like flower patches and pebbles.
  • Removed and destroyed versions of overworld objects Link can interact with.
The foreground will contain the following elements:
  • Roofs
  • Tree tops
  • Statue tops
  • Other high up stuff
Don't put in objects Link interacts with and can change state, neither put in animated background tiles like water.

Map characteristics
  • The size of the separate parts of the maps will have the size 320x256.
  • The main tile size is 16x16 pixels. For some decorative purposes tiles of 8x8 pixels are also allowed.
  • We stay true to the size of the tiles and objects from MC. Objects won't be shrunk to match similar objects from LA.

File characteristics
  • Make two files, one for the background and one for the foreground.
  • Name the parts of the map according to the area in the Game and the grid coordinates. For example the top left most area of Toronbo Beach, just below Mabe Village Library, is Toronbo_Shores_1-1. And the part to the right of that Toronbo_Shores_1-2. Some areas may have some special building which can be taken in the naming like, Toronbo_Shores_2-4_Tail_Cave
  • File format: PNG
  • Program to create the files: TBA

Resources
  • We use the resources ripped by the people of ZFGC for the Community project. The sheets can be found WHERE?
  • Making custom tiles are allowed, but offer a small sheet of the custom tiles along to the new part of the map, in order for the custom tiles to be put with the resources.

We start mapping from Mabe Village and continue following the story.
Current area: Mabe Village.
Next Up: Toronbo Shores.

Look at this http://portfolio16.de/zelda/map4/map_en.htm for an example map from LA.

If people have problems with this, then let me know and post it in this topic. Otherwise they will go up at the end of the week. There are still some things that need to be decided:

Infin: Are you still prepared to make a map editor. Or will Xfixium's Ocarina Room Editor be usable. Or are we going to have to use something like GIMP?

What file format are we going to use? PNG, JPEG or something else?

And where do we dump the Resources? And are there any tutorials on using VBARipper or any other resource extracting applications (for dummies and people in stupidity periods).

Anything I've missed?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 08:11:42 pm by Niek »
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