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Author Topic: What I think Wii developers should do.  (Read 2245 times)

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Hoffy

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What I think Wii developers should do.
« on: June 16, 2007, 11:26:50 pm »
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The Problem
I'm noticing a trend. A pretty bad one, too. The Wii is getting non-mainstream games, unsuccessful games, and games that are likely to be unsuccessful. This came to mind as soon as I heard that Soul Calibur 4 wouldn't be appearing on Wii, and would only show up on Xbox360 and PS3. But because Namco can't manage to have such a pretty game on a console that can't handle it, and because they need to have some Soul Calibur name on the Wii, they pull out a spin-off known as Soul Calibur Legends... which sounds alright, but can never be quite as good as the mainstream Soul Calibur games. The same seems to apply with Resident Evil 5 and Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles.

RE5 could have been on Wii. Soul Calibur 4 could have been on Wii. It's not the Wiimote that's stopping those games from showing up, it's simply the power of the console... it has nothing to boast over. "A little better than Xbox" won't get that console anywhere. In the end, if Soul Calibur 4 were to appear on all 3 consoles, it would be very much different on Wii, graphics-wise.

I could spend this post talking about how Nintendo could have added the extra horsepower to the Wii and still included the motion control (which they could have done), but I'm not entirely bothered about that. Because, even without the 1080p visuals, HD DVD playback, 120gb hard drive, 27000 USB ports, 3.2GHz processor, $1000 price tag and a decent online system, the Wii still has a lot to showcase for. But I'm sure you've already read about that stuff a billion times so I'll spare you the trouble of reading it again.

Taking that in, I do believe that the mind of the casual gamer will have Nintendo's Wii console place highly at the end of this generation. They could place first, or even second, or maybe even third. But in my belief, they won't be very far behind if they do place third. All casual gamers need is Wii Sports and eventually a Wii Sports 2, and the Wii is a definite winner. That said, the hardcore games have... nothing. Well, little to nothing. All we have is Nintendo's games. Smash. Mario. Metroid. Zelda. And then all of the other additions like Pikmin and Battalion Wars and Pilot Wings and F-Zero and !@#$%. And while that provides us with a library of about 20 decent games, there's no variety. It's just Nintendo, Nintendo, Nintendo.

Now, third-party developers have been supporting the Wii pretty well. There hasn't been any ground-breaking games, as such, but they're have been mildly okay games. The Godfather, Scarface, Sonic, SSX Blur, Banana Blitz. These games are alright, but they're not super-friggin-duper. More to the point, they're not games that are going to be viewed as highly as third-party games on the Xbox360 and PS3. Why? Because there's no real effort going into them, because the very same developers are in the process of designing triple A games on the other consoles. That's the problem. There's just no love.

Does this mean we're going to see third-party games as good as Resident Evil 4, or Baten Kaitos, Beyond Good & Evil, Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, Prince of Persia, Rogue Leader and Viewtiful Joe? Well, yeah. We could definitely see a game that is as good as or even better than any of those games. Games that are as good as last-generation games. Games that are being compared to last generation games. They are last-generation games. But therein lies the major problem. Developers are going to develop on Wii with the idea that they're developing on this familiar, dated hardware, with the added addition of motion-sensing controller. Why would there ever be a third-party, exclusive, AAA game on Wii, when the same third-party could possibly design that phenomenal game on a better console? With a game on a better console, with graphics that surpass any other, the game will likely stand out. If the same game were designed for Wii, the only aspect that would allow the game to stand out is the motion-sensing controls... Do you honestly believe that will make the game more attractive? I can't say I do.

The Solution
So what can be done? Casual gamers have already got their console. They'll be able to have the games that allow them to dress up their Miis, play sports, play with dogs and exercise their brain. For the hardcore games? I think third-party developers, and Nintendo, need to think about graphics. I know there's some part of them that says it's not about that, but hardcore gamers do care. Games like Brawl and Super Mario Galaxy are looking fantastic, but that's expected of Nintendo.

As for the other developers, I think they need to take a look at games like (you guessed it) Resident Evil 4. If the GameCube was capable of running a game with that much atmosphere, detail, texture and whatnot, then I'm sure with the "double power" or "one-and-a-half times power" of the Wii, we can have something a little prettier than RE4. Or even Shadow of the Colossus! God knows how much more powerful the Wii is over the PS2, I'm sure we can see a game that looks as good as SotC. I know it can be done, I just wait to see it. So really, developers don't have a lot of excuse when it comes to ugly games (except that they're lazy).

If not the pretty graphics, then why not focus on art style? In my eyes, Wind Waker is the most gorgeous game to ever land on a console, 'nuff said. That game was freaking beautiful, and the art style was very much appreciated amongst many of us. Or even games like Okami, we all know how much a gorgeous game that was. And that was on the PS2 as well. My point is, art style sometimes speaks so much louder than realistic graphics, and I'm sure that if developers decided to use a unique art style, games would go a lot easier on the hardcore gamers whom are also art buffs.

And my final solution, and the most intriguing (and risky) is to simply use 2D graphics. Nintendo have made it clear that they're not really competing with Sony or Microsoft, so why not go back to the most lovable console of all time, the Super Nintendo, and just develop a few games in 2D? I'm not talking about Wario Ware-2D, I'm talking about FFVI 2D. If you had amazingly detailed and gorgeous sprites, you'd have retro gamers in spasms. Why not develop a 2D RPG, Nintendo? That'll surely bring back some memories for those who cherished the SNES. And just think about how much content you could add into the game with so little focus on graphics? A lot. The game could go on forever if you wanted it to. There's nothing wrong with a 2D game on a 7th Generation console. In fact, I'd cherish such a game if it were well done. Or why not fuse 2D Sprites with amazing art style? And then when you bring the Wiimote into the equation... There's just so many possibilities to make the Wii a unique, or even "indie" console. Maybe this is what the Virtual Console is for, so who knows. I hope you see my point, though.

That's about all I have to say. If you read this entire post, you're pretty cool. Now if you'd excuse me, it's my birthday, and I'm going to pick up a 360. Cheers.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2007, 11:35:30 pm by Hoffy »
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 11:36:58 pm »
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I like what I read...
I'm not really sure on what and how to comment, so I'll leave it without any comment of my own...
But yeah, the first part is pretty noticeable... and Miyamoto has already asked publicly for more "interest" from the thrid-parties... I hope that happens...
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 11:47:44 pm »
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I agree 100%. The Wii is pretty powerful, if even a bit more powerful than the cube. Anyone who has played Elebits has probably noticed how smooth it is, and it doesn't lag unless you have tons of things flying, but what's the chance of that?
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 11:49:21 pm »
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Indeed, i have been wondering why they couldn't include motion sensoring, plus really good graphics.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 11:51:52 pm »
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The Wii is pretty powerful, if even a bit more powerful than the cube. Anyone who has played Elebits has probably noticed how smooth it is, and it doesn't lag unless you have tons of things flying, but what's the chance of that?

No, no it's not. The processor is not much faster than 700MHz (729, to be exact), and about 128MB of RAM. If anything, it's weaker than the Xbox, which had a 733Mhz processor and 256MB of RAM.

My opinion is that Nintendo is too busy with innovation and doesn't really give as much thought to gratuitous eye candy that most gamers these days want. This is ultimately going to be their downfall. Next generation, Nintendo needs to give their console more power.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 01:08:02 am »
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I'm not complaining about the power, but nintendo should have at least made the nintendo Wii HD capable.  480p the best possible?  That's horrible!  Games with fantastic art direction, like Super Paper Mario (not actually so fun) look atrocious because of the horrible resolution.

Also Wii developers seem to love this "minigame collection" and "education-brain-training-game" craze, so... have fun Wii gamers <_<

I'll go play on my 360 with GTAIV, Assassin's parkour, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Too Human, Shadowrun, Viva Pinata, Halo 3, etc. (some titles not out yet :P).  I'll also get all my indie/classic/casual gaming done with Xbox Live arcade :D
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 02:55:44 am »
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I'm not complaining about the power, but nintendo should have at least made the nintendo Wii HD capable.  480p the best possible?  That's horrible!  Games with fantastic art direction, like Super Paper Mario (not actually so fun) look atrocious because of the horrible resolution.

Also Wii developers seem to love this "minigame collection" and "education-brain-training-game" craze, so... have fun Wii gamers <_<

I'll go play on my 360 with GTAIV, Assassin's parkour, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Too Human, Shadowrun, Viva Pinata, Halo 3, etc. (some titles not out yet :P).  I'll also get all my indie/classic/casual gaming done with Xbox Live arcade :D
Share plx?
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 03:18:48 am »
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in b4 hyrule_boy and subsequent shitstorm

The problem with the Wii is not necessarily its inability to produce good graphics. What people fail to realize is good graphics are not what the next-gen is all about...more power allows for bigger levels, more complex puzzles, and smarter enemies that all contribute to a "next-gen" experience that may use a "last-gen" controller.

However, the Wii is in a completely different market. Its games are different, it can't compete with the 360 and PS3...simply because it isn't mean to. Nintendo has carved out their own chunk of the market.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 03:39:01 am »
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In short "3rd party developers rely too much on hardware, and should make the software better to compensate." Am I right?
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2007, 03:39:37 am »
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in b4 hyrule_boy and subsequent shitstorm

The problem with the Wii is not necessarily its inability to produce good graphics. What people fail to realize is good graphics are not what the next-gen is all about...more power allows for bigger levels, more complex puzzles, and smarter enemies that all contribute to a "next-gen" experience that may use a "last-gen" controller.

However, the Wii is in a completely different market. Its games are different, it can't compete with the 360 and PS3...simply because it isn't mean to. Nintendo has carved out their own chunk of the market.
Ah, but that is Nintendo's problem right there. They ask for the mainstream games from this year, yet they do not own the piece of market (Power.) that makes it (Almost) impossible for them to get mainstream games.

 Most developers are going to develope for the bigger market (XBox 360, Ps3 and PC.), all of which have alot of power. So, to make a game specificly for the Wii would be killing off 3/4ths of the market, then losing more money then they could've made. (Why developers do not use the PC as much as the Ps3/360 is beyond me.... it is as powerful, if not more then the consoles and has the biggest market.)

 Nintendo really should've thought of EVERYTHING, before developing the Wii... like how developers think...

I'll go play on my 360 with GTAIV, Assassin's parkour, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Too Human, Shadowrun, Viva Pinata, Halo 3, etc. (some titles not out yet :P).  I'll also get all my indie/classic/casual gaming done with Xbox Live arcade :D
:( No Alan Wake?

 BTW: I know I over used the words developer/developing.... I do not know any synonyms for it....
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 03:41:56 am by piers »
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2007, 03:52:04 am »
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in b4 hyrule_boy and subsequent shitstorm

The problem with the Wii is not necessarily its inability to produce good graphics. What people fail to realize is good graphics are not what the next-gen is all about...more power allows for bigger levels, more complex puzzles, and smarter enemies that all contribute to a "next-gen" experience that may use a "last-gen" controller.

However, the Wii is in a completely different market. Its games are different, it can't compete with the 360 and PS3...simply because it isn't mean to. Nintendo has carved out their own chunk of the market.
Ah, but that is Nintendo's problem right there. They ask for the mainstream games from this year, yet they do not own the piece of market (Power.) that makes it (Almost) impossible for them to get mainstream games.

 Most developers are going to develope for the bigger market (XBox 360, Ps3 and PC.), all of which have alot of power. So, to make a game specificly for the Wii would be killing off 3/4ths of the market, then losing more money then they could've made. (Why developers do not use the PC as much as the Ps3/360 is beyond me.... it is as powerful, if not more then the consoles and has the biggest market.)

 Nintendo really should've thought of EVERYTHING, before developing the Wii... like how developers think...

Indeed, one example can be seen in Spiderman 3 for the Wii. When they made the game they probably concentrated on making it for the ps3/360 then the Wii last. And Since they based it around the power and graphics of the 360/ps3, the Wii apparently couldn't handle the graphics when you get too far. Probably has to do with draw distance and power of the Wii.

It may not affect games that much yet, but in the future it definitely could.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2007, 03:55:56 am »
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In short "3rd party developers rely too much on hardware, and should make the software better to compensate." Am I right?
Not only is that true, but they assume that the Wii's "casual gamer" market knows nothing about videogames.  So they can get away with releasing shitty games, or really easy dumb games.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2007, 03:58:56 am »
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Well, after reading the "The problem" section, your forgetting that some of those spin-off games are actually going to be very good. Like Final Fantasy Crysal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers looks freakin' amazing. And a few of these new games for the Wii are going to be freakin' amazing to.

No More Heroes. Case closed. That will make the Wii even more of an instant win than it was before.

Opoona. This the Wii rpg i've been seriously waiting for for a long time. Or atleast since I got my Wii... but it isn't 3rd party.

Wii just need to give the Wii more time. It will surely have plenty of great games Wii can play sooner or later.

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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2007, 09:32:58 am »
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Most developers are just way to !@#$% lazy! The port some stuff and I don't have a problem with that. But what the hell do we get? Some monster named Farcry: Vengeance for example! I'm highly disappointed in the 3rd party developers.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 09:34:39 am by Hyrule_boy »
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2007, 01:12:41 pm »
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Most developers are just way to !@#$% lazy! The port some stuff and I don't have a problem with that. But what the hell do we get? Some monster named Farcry: Vengeance for example! I'm highly disappointed in the 3rd party developers.

Maybe Nintendo should give some indie publishers the ability to write games for it? I know they can't at the moment. I've read the application form for Nintendo's devlopment kits before. You have to already be properly established with a large company that has experience in game design on other platforms... which means indie developers are screwed.
Microsoft did it (They even publish good enough games on the XBox Live Arcade.)... so it isn't entirely out of the question. If Nintendo put up some libraries and a way to link the computer to the console, I am sure many would use it.
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2007, 02:13:04 pm »
Quote
Does this mean we're going to see third-party games as good as Resident Evil 4, or Baten Kaitos, Beyond Good & Evil, Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, Prince of Persia, Rogue Leader and Viewtiful Joe?

A) RE4 was not exclusive. However, we're getting the upgraded PS2 version and RE:UC (which looks really cool, even though it's on-rails).
B) Nintendo bought the studio that made BK. A sequel or new RPG franchise from them for the Wii is only a matter of time.
C) BG&E was not exclusive. Mike Ancel, the creator, is really big on the Wii though. If there's a sequel to BG&E (which there should be), it'll probably be on the Wii. Besides, Ubisoft is the next EA. The Wii's even getting a version of GRAW2 (probably just a port of the PSP one though).
D) Suda51 has No More Heroes set for Wii. He apparently has 2 other projects for it (one is reasonably confirmed, the other was only mentioned once). Big chance one of those projects will be his collaboration with Mikami (RE4 dude, worked with Suda on Killer7, force behind the Capcom 5 and RE4Wii remake, big Ninty fan).

So, hold on to your horses. The Wii is getting a fair amount of attention.

Konami's bringing out Dewii, Capcom's got Treasure Island Z, Manhunt 2 Wii is getting lots of positive impressions, Soul Calibur Legends has the director of SCII and SCIII working on it, so it's not just some cheap spin-off, Tecmo's got the very mature-looking action-adventure Rygar Wii coming up, Namco has Sword of Legendia and probably another Tales game, SquareEnix has FF:CC (which looks great) and Chocobo (which looks pretty good too), Dragon Quest Wii looks pretty awesome and could mean DQ Wii exclusive, Gas Powered Games (the studio that made Supreme Commander, a popular RTS) is supposedly working on a Wii project, Shin Megami Tensei could easily come to Wii (art director said he had Wii and PS3 in mind for the future of Megaten), etc etc etc.


We only need one thing: sales. If Wii continues to sell as well as it is now, it'll become the PS2 of this generation, it'll get lots of games (maybe not always the most best-looking or mature ones, but games none the less).


Also, you're right about the graphical powers of the Wii. Developpers will have to focus on the art design more than the graphical level to make Wii games look good. Original projects like Dewii, Treasure Island Z, RE:UC, No More Heroes and others look pretty solid (at least upper class GCN games).
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2007, 11:09:11 pm »
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The Wii is pretty powerful, if even a bit more powerful than the cube. Anyone who has played Elebits has probably noticed how smooth it is, and it doesn't lag unless you have tons of things flying, but what's the chance of that?

No, no it's not. The processor is not much faster than 700MHz (729, to be exact), and about 128MB of RAM. If anything, it's weaker than the Xbox, which had a 733Mhz processor and 256MB of RAM.

My opinion is that Nintendo is too busy with innovation and doesn't really give as much thought to gratuitous eye candy that most gamers these days want. This is ultimately going to be their downfall. Next generation, Nintendo needs to give their console more power.

Uh, yes the Wii IS more powerful, just not GPU wise (the Wii has no programmable hardware shaders, so it must be done with CPU).  CPU wise, definitly.  The original Xbox's CPU was just an off-the-self 733MHz Celeron.  The Wii's is SUPPOSEDLY a 729MHz POWER-PC CPU specifically designed for it.  PPC clock-rates =! Intel clock-rates

And the original Xbox only had 64MB of shared RAM. LINK
The Wii has 88MB of shared RAM.

Remember, these are only playing games and don't have the bloat known as a Windows operating system running on top of them with a gajillion services.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 11:13:44 pm by Nintendo Maniac 64 »
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2007, 12:56:35 am »
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Wii still has some damn good games, exclusive or not.  Budokai and need for speed, I love the wiimote for these guys =)

Also, celeron processors are the WORST.

edit: Have you guys seen that one baseball game?  It was in the last Nintendo Power.  It actually you know..uses the wiimote well.  The power of your swing, the angle of it, running the bases, tagging out players, sliding and pitching all are motion sensitive.  May I also add it's very nice graphics-wise.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 01:05:56 am by MG-Zero »
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Re: What I think Wii developers should do.
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2007, 06:48:47 am »
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After buying a 360, I've come to the decision that I don't really care that the Wii's graphics are inferior. While playing the 360, not for a second did I think that "I wish I could be playing Mario or Zelda with graphics as good as this", because I think that the overall charm and gameplay of Nintendo's games is enough to make me love those games. The Wiimote, with all of it's features, is enough to have some excellent gameplay experiences. Games are just fun with the Wiimote. Not Halo 2 sort of fun, but a weird kind of fun nonetheless that can't be established on the Xbox 360, or the Playstation 3 (even with the tilt technology). Wii is a console I turn to play with my friends who might not necessarily play games, but even if they do it's still fun time to be had.

So in conclusion,

I'm going to use the Wii for playing games, and as a retro machine.
I'm going to use the 360 for playing games, and as a media machine.
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