Print

[TDWP FTW]

TDWP FTW

Good/Bad Items.

So I've been working on adding the rest of the items in my Zelda game, and I've already changed up a lot of the items since I first started the game.  Here's the complete list of items I have in the game/planned:

• Slingshot - Allows the player to fire Deku Seeds quickly.
  
• Bombs - Bombs that can be used to reveal secret passages, blow up obstacles, and be used as a weapon.
  
• Boomerang - Allows the player hit switches behind walls, as well as paralyze enemies for a short period of time.
  
• Bow and Arrow - Allows the player shoot arrow precisely with a new aiming feature.
  
• Megaton Hammer - Used to smash down certain objects to allow entry, as well as on hard objects and enemies.
  
• Anchor - Allows the play sink into water and possibly find a secret passage, item, etc.  Also allows Link to activate stuck switches that require a lot of weight to activate.
  
• Ice Shards - Freezes nearby enemies, and makes ice cubes in water that can be jump on, or pushed.
  
• Rod of Growth - Allows the player grow foliage from a Rockvine Plant patch which can be used to reach certain areas or activate certain things.
  
• Cyclone Vase - Allows the player to blow and suck air from a vase, pushing or pulling objects and enemies.
  
• Lens of Truth - Shows hidden objects, as well as allowing the player to slightly see in the dark.
  
• Shade Cloak - Conceals the player in a cloak that lets them blend in with the shadows and not be seen be enemies, as well as allowing entry into certain areas.
  
• Deku Nuts - Paralyzes enemies for a short period of time.
• Gemshorn of Sorrow - Allows the player to play from 12 different songs, each with their own action, such as changing the seasons or weather.
  
• Fire Arrows - Burning arrows that can be used as a weapon, or to burn certain objects.
• Bomb Arrows - Arrows with bombs attached at the end, allowing the player to cause an explosion from a distance.
• Empty Bottle 1 - Allows the player to store 7 different items, from potions to fairies.
• Empty Bottle 2 - Allows the player to store 7 different items, from potions to fairies.
• Hookshot - Allows the player to cross certain obstacles, granted there's a hookshot-able object
• Fishing Rod - Take a break and go fishing!  You can catch a number of different fish, as well as certain items like rupees.
• Pictobox - A basic camera that the player can use to take pictures and save them to their computer.  3 different upgrades are available for it...Old Pictobox (The regular Pictobox that you first get...Black & white photos), Color Pictobox (Color photos), and the Upgraded Pictobox, which the player can use to take "high quality" photos to use in in-game contests and whatnot.

So that's 20 items total.  The bold ones are items you get from dungeons, and ones in italics are completely new items to the Zelda series.  Now, my main point of creating this topic is...What do you look for in items?

Do you want them to have major uses outside of dungeons?  Do you want them to have a significant use in dungeons besides the one you get a certain item in?  How much originality is needed?

Things like that are what I need to know.  I've been struggling with sticking to a definite item list, so if you could give your feedback on the items I've listed, I'd appreciate it.

[Max.]

Max.

Re: Good/Bad Items.

Personally, I get really excited about items that are all new, like in Twilight princess with the spinner, ball and chain, and double clawshot (the single one was just  the hookshot). They were exciting because they were new, even if sometimes they were kinda stupid (the spinner...)

What's next best to that is what you're doing, which is adapting old items to your story. Anchor, iron boots, ice shards, ice arrows, cyclone vase, gust jar, etc. Rather than blatantly just copying old items, some creativity is involved. Instead of just recycling magic beans, or if you don't want to have to pay for them slash don't want a limited number, a growth rod sounds fantastic.
This also opens up new opportunities for old, yet reworked items. Could you ever use magic beans in a boss fight? No, but with a growth rod, you could fight in some plant environment, and alter the terrain with the growth rod in order to beat the enemy. Maybe you could grow a tree to get to his weak point, then have a limited amount of time to climb it and either grow a new place to stand or hit him before he knocks the tree down.

The only thing I really disagree with is when redundant items are added. Note, I'm not talking about optional things like the fire rod in ALTTP, I mean having a slingshot and a bow, they do the same thing. In Ocarina, they were exactly the same, just different to limit adult link at first. And in a nonsensical way. Why can't adults use slingshots or boomerangs? I'm an adult, and I can!

[TDWP FTW]

TDWP FTW

Re: Good/Bad Items.

Well see, with the slingshot, you can't aim.  It's mainly just for fast shooting.  With the bow, I've made a new aiming system that's new to 2D Zelda games AFAIK, not to mention it's more powerful, and shoots faster.  You can aim in the four directions, along with any angle in-between, allowing for more precise aiming.  The hookshot in my game features the same aiming system as well.

With most of my items, they're either already in previous games, or they're "reworks" of old ones.  When I first started development, I had a list of completely new items, but most of them only had use in the dungeon they were found in.  Not to mention, they were based off of the element of said dungeon.  For instance, I had an item called the "Water Whip" which was found in the Sunken Grotto (Water Temple in my game), that could drain pools of water, and then fill another.  It just didn't have much of a use outside of the temple...

So I revamped the list, adding in items from previous games, like the Slingshot, Deku Nuts, etc. (They were never in it originally).  Then I added a few new items in, along with some "fun" items, like the Fishing Rod and Pictobox.

I could always have weapon upgrades for some things, like maybe the Slingshot could be upgraded to fire 3 Deku Seeds at once, instead of 3...Or the Hookshot could be upgraded to shoot farther, like the Longshot.  IDK, I'm usually against weapon upgrades, as they can end up being overpowered, but then again, that's up to me.

[Max.]

Max.

Re: Good/Bad Items.

I dunno, I am all for weapon upgrades, especially for lengthy side quest rewards (biggoron sword? Or any sword upgrades from the Oracle Series?). I think for optional quests, they're balanced at least in this way: people who are investing more time into exploring the world you've created and spending more time with your hard work get more of a chance to either explore even MORE of it, with things like the long shot, or play the game more the way they want to, by being more powerful.

The only time I've ever been disappointed with upgrades is with the slingshot (first, logically, why can I shoot three seeds? And secondly, why would I want to do that? Only for very specific puzzles, which are practically only in this dungeon!) and, initially, the SECOND time I found a clawshot in Twilight Princess (oh, boy, city is the sky, this all new item will be really cool! It's... ANOTHER clawshot!). I did learn to love the dual clawshots, though, they were fun.

Also, if you happened to have programmed any of the old items you won't use, USE THEM ANYWAY! Make them side quest items, and then throw a handful of those puddle puzzles onto the overworld so if you go through a side quest (which I think are fun, especially when they're exploring nooks and crannies of the world) to get the water whip, it's a REALLY exciting reward, and still semi useful, because you can solve those confounding puddle puzzles and get those pieces of heart!

[FrozenFire]

FrozenFire

Re: Good/Bad Items.

Can you come up with a better name than "Ice Shards"? It just seems a little weird to have some shards of ice as an item. Maybe a Frost Glove or something?

Love all the other items though. Especially the new ones. And I agree with Max that you should have items that are completely optional, though not too many. One thing that would be awesome is a special sword (a very epic one of course), as Max suggested. I think a trading sequence or two would be great to get some optional items, and I think it would be a good move to make a sword be the acquired item at the end of a sequence. Other optional item ideas are things that cut magic use in half (or maybe not so drastically good, because that is VERY good), or maybe the mirror shield or simply a shield that absorbs magic and shoots it back (like the mirror shield does in OoT's Twinrova fight). It's all about finding the balance in making optional items good enough to be worth it, but not so good that they are almost an item that you can't beat the game without, if you know what I mean.

And the water whip is kind of a cool idea. You could use it to take the water from a lake and bring it to a sort of far away village that has a dry well. Once the well was full (you could make it take multiple trips or just one), maybe a bucket would rise up with the water to reveal a heart piece in it or something, and the people of the village would be very happy that Link saved the day by giving them water to drink! = Heroic status achievement! Or maybe there could be an area with a small pond in which a weird creature appears. However, when Link gets close it ducks under the water. The only way Link could catch/kill it would be to dry up the pond. Of course there would be a way to climb down and approach it and you could either kill it or talk to it. If you talked to it it would plead with you to return the water and it would promise to give you a reward for your kindness. If you kill it, you'd get a good amount of rupees, but if you didn't kill it and you filled the pond up with water again, the creature would give you something better as thanks. Just some ideas.
Of course, if you have things you could dry up and fill, you'd need a water source (or multiple sources) that never dried up. So large lakes would be infinite while ponds would not be. Otherwise you could have some possible issues in design. Anyway, I think it would be a fine item if you just got a little creative with it. But it's up to you in the end.

Btw, I've got to practice my guitar for about 5 hours straight (not kidding), but I will play your newest demo afterwards and I'll give my thoughts on the game's thread. It looks real nice; I'm excited to check it out!

• 

[TDWP FTW]

TDWP FTW

Re: Good/Bad Items.

Thanks for the feedback.  The Ice Shards have a crappy name, and it's the best thing I could think of without having it be TOO cliche.  :p  They're more like crystals, and basically what happens is Link throws one on the ground (They "regenerate" with magic, AKA you need magic to use them), and it causes a blast of freezing cold air to freeze enemies and certain items around him.

As for different swords and shields, I don't plan on having different shields, as it would be a pain to have to go through and edit a bunch of sprites...I could just use a shield overlay though.  Anyway, I plan on having three different swords.  The one you get near the beginning of the game (Before the first dungeon), a longsword that's obviously longer than the regular sword, and can hit enemies from a further distance (Getting this will involve a large side quest like the Biggoron's Sword in OoT).

And then one called the Solarus Blade, which will have higher damage than the longsword (The longsword and regular sword have the same damage amount).  However, it will play a special role in the game, as it can cast out Dark Fog from the Caleron Sewers/Caleron Castle (Which is the last dungeon in the game), and you'll need to use it or else you will get hurt from the fog.

Anyway, I've uploaded a new demo, so be sure to get the latest version (Download here: http://www.mediafire.com/?m9gy35g0ijfap8p) when you try it.