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Author Topic: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm  (Read 32477 times)

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2011, 10:33:18 pm »
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I must agree that every item is important yet we shouldn't add 30 items just because we can do it, I prefer to keep the number low and make the usage creatively. And add a representative item from important games (Like magic beans from OoT, the Owl statues for transportation from MM, the Magnetic Gloves from OoS the Pegasus Boots from LTTP), and perhaps after that just try to make what items make link a better thief ;).
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 02:08:39 am »
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Yea, having to many to choose from could be a confusing problem for the player and programmers. Let's just pick out the best ones then. The slingshot looks like a good thief item, kinda like a pre-bow item.
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King Tetiro

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 08:05:40 am »
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If we can implement it, the grappling hook or the whip would make great thief items too
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 08:58:57 am »
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I feel that each Zelda game has a formula for items. Each new game takes the basic items previously known throughout the franchise (e.g. Bow, Arrows, Bombs, etc) which is roughly 50% of the items, plus a few familiar items (e.g. Hookshot) which is roughly another 25%, but then they always introduce a few new items; roughly the other 25%. I'm probably not very accurate in that statement, but I am to a point; It's all about the balance of useful and familiar items with new items that bring something tasty and deliciously fresh to the table. (excuse my weird language, I'm a bit hungry atm)

I had a VERY long document containing a list of items for my next planned Zelda game (after Spirit's Quest). I've taken all the descriptive stuff out and a few items (as some items would spoil SQ), but here is what I came up with for my game. Notice the combination of familiar items with new items:



<<< ITEM LIST >>>

Main Items

BOW & ARROWS (5 Count)
- Hero’s Bow
--- Ice Arrows
--- Fire Arrows
--- Light Arrows
--- Bomb Arrows
BOOMERANG (2 Count)
- Boomerang
- Dual Boomerang (Pretty much just 2 boomerangs)
BOMBS (2 Count)
- Bombs
- Super Bombs
FLASH BEANS (A merge between magic beans and deku nuts: These may be thrown to create a bright stunning flash, but they may also be planted in certain soils and watered for INSTANT plant growth)
STAFF OF KALISTA (A rod that creates ice blocks, but beware that these blocks will melt in hot places!)
OCARINA OF WINDS
HOOK SHOT
SHADOW CLOAK (Link may make himself invisible to the human eye. Beasts are not so easily fooled; they can smell you stupid!)
VULDRED’S CLAWS (2 Count)
(Note: A "Vuldred" was planned to be an evolved version of a "Vuldra" which is a bird-like mole beast (yes, very odd and ugly))
- Vuldred’s Claws (Allows Link to dig holes to search for buried treasures as well as burrow beneath very soft soils)
- King Vuldred’s Claws (Allows Link to do the above as well as scale certain walls)
BOTTLES (4 Count)

Secondary Items

SWORDS & SHIELDS
HERO’S TUNIC
FIRE TUNIC
WATER TUNIC
POWER GAUNTLETS
HOVER BOOTS
QUIVERS
BOMB BAGS
RUPEE BAGS

Temporary Items

STORY/MISC:
- Blacksmith's Key (Sequence A, Item 01/01)
- (Insert more items here)
- Key of Thieves (Ending item)
TRADING SEQUENCE
- Mushroom (Sequence A, Item 01/??)
- Meat (Sequence A, Item 02/??)
- (Insert more items here)
- Magic Gem (Ending item)

Special Items

QUEST COLLECTION A (4 Count)
- Blade of Light Piece (1)
- Blade of Light Piece (2)
- Blade of Light Piece (3)
- Blade of Light Piece (4)
QUEST COLLECTION B (3 Count)
- Triforce of Courage
- Triforce of Wisdom
- Triforce of Power
HEART CONTAINERS
MAGIC CONTAINERS

<<< MORE ITEMS >>>

Wind Tablets/Wind Songs (12 Count)
- Song of Memories - Brings you to Koro Village.
- Fairy Song - Brings you to Lost Woods.
- Zelda's Lullaby - Brings you to Hyrule Castle entrance. Used for Hyrulian Seals and other secrets.
- Song of Heights - Brings you to Death Mountain.
- Song of Frost - Brings you to Frozen Peak.
- Ghost's Melody - Brings you to Haunted Forest.
- Song of Sands - Brings you to Gerudo Desert.
- Song of Guards - Brings you to Gerudo Fortress.
- Song of Seas - Brings you to Kuno Beach.
- Scarecrow's Song - Awakens scarecrows up from their dirt patches.
- Lycia's Song - Brings you to Imel.
- Song of Secrets - Does many secret things. In a certain place it will bring you to a secret land.

Bottle Items (10 Count)
- Water - Dump it on stuff, like plants. Fill up the dry well all the way for a secret item! (<-- example of brainstorming for item usage ideas)
- Poe - Maybe some "strange person" wants this...
- Milk - Heals a little life.
- Firefly - Use to light up dark places.
- Red Chu Jelly - Heals Link well.
- Green Chu Jelly - Replenishes some MP.
- Blue Chu Jelly - Replenishes all HP.
- Yellow Chu Jelly - Replenishes all MP.
- White Chu Jelly - Replenishes all HP and MP.
- Black Chu Jelly - Does one of the above, but may also hurt Link.

Refills/Other (8 Count)
  - Rupees - Money to buy items, keys, weapons, bribe people, you name it.
    (Green 1, Blue 5, Yellow 10, Red 20, Purple 50, Orange 100, Silver 200, Clear/Glows 500)
  - Small Heart - Refills your life a little.
  - Group of Hearts - Refills your life quite well.
  - Magic Essence - Refills your magic a little.
  - Magic Jar - Refills your magic quite well.
  - Arrows - In packs of 5, 10, 25 and 50.
  - Bombs - Single or in packs of 5, 10, and 25.
  - Flash Bean - Use to blind enemies, also to grow plants in special soil or special water.

<<< CURRENTLY REJECTED ITEMS >>>

Hammer/Goron's Hammer - Pound, smash, break and create destructive shockwaves... Fun!
Bomb-chu - Moving bombs that climb walls! (Bomb arrows can be used in place of these, kind of)
Mirror Shield - Reflect light and pretty much all magic attacks.
(Have Alt.) Shovel - Dig for goodies!
(Also took out dark magic arrows)
Long Range Bow (I have a "power" feature, so it isn't necessary)
Graveyard Key - The key to the graveyard.
Goron's Key - The key to the Fire Temple.
Pirate's Key - Use on the doors of Gerudo Fortress.
Royal Key - Use in castles... you may be surprised.



Sorry if it's a bit messy with my personal notes that may confuse. I had to take a lot out and modify it a bit to make it readable on here since it didn't transfer well from my pretty document.

Feel free to use any item ideas in there that sound good. Anyway, I just wanted to be sure that you guys were planning on adding a few TOTALLY NEW items. When choosing items, keep in mind the possible uses. The key is to find a small amount of items that have vast uses that will allow for an epic adventure. Gimmicky items are a hassle; they are not fun and they have limited uses. An example of this, in my opinion, is the rod from TP. I didn't like the rod at all; it wasn't a fun item, and it wasn't even that useful. But, I'm sure there are people that disagree, which is fine. But it's still good to make sure items aren't forced into the game just because they are "cool" items or something.
What I did is I brainstormed for each and every item on what all the possible uses and functions (I took this out of the above list to avoid info overkill ^_^). The items that seemed shallow in those areas were often rejected, or maybe one item was too much alike another item, so I would go and compare my thoughts on each item's functionality and I could decide which to keep or throw away.

Just some of my thoughts. I hope I helped in some way and I wish the KoT project the best! ^_- !

P.S. Sorry this is so long. The use of spoilers made the information get all messy and I didn't see any other way to post all of it. ... don't hit me please! D:
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 02:50:19 pm »
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That's a really good list!  Good work! :)  To keep this all flowing, I'm going to throw this template out to be filled in by this group..

MAIN ITEMS
  -Item Name
  -Dungeon found in
  -Functionality
  -Requirements to use (i.e. MP consumption)
  -Uses (What type of switches it activates, for example)

SECONDARY ITEMS
  -Item Name
  -Location found (if it's found commonly, or if it needs to be gotten through an npc, or a sidequest)
  -Requirements to use
  -Functionality
  -Uses

EQUIPMENT
  -Item Name
  -Item Type (Sword, tunic etc)
  -Location found
  -Advantages/disadvantages over other equipment

Whenever a new item is decided upon, fill this template out and it will be added to the first post.  Do not make too exhaustive of a list, and do not exceed the number of dungeons for main items!!  If we can get all of the main items (or at least half of them) decided upon in say...2 or 3 weeks, that would be awesome!
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2011, 04:21:40 am »
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Maybe we should post one item at a time, so we don't get the same items twice and get confused. :-\
I agree with what Frozen said earlier, most of the recurring Zelda items are the essential ones. Like Swords, Shields, and maybe Boots. :P

Dibs on the master sword!

Quote
MAIN ITEMS
  -Master Sword
  -Temple of Time(2nd visit)
  -A very sharp blade! Can slice through anything!!
  -None, Can use anywhere...BUT IN HOUSES!
  -Can deflect other spear, sword, trowing related attacks.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 12:29:41 am »
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Okay I think we should first define what quantity, to give an idea Minish Cap has 16 items, while OoT has 24 ( without the sword, shield and tunics). Also! I don't want to include tunics and boots, if boots are added let's just add them as MC or OoA/OoS did, where you have to equip them to the hud slot to be able to use them, but since it's our game I would like to see other people think and perhaps make a poll out of it?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2011, 04:23:54 pm »
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I think 16 kind of a big number!  XD At first I thought we was gonna go with only 10 items, and no inventory items(like fish scale or boots). I dunno, we want this game to be way more of a quest then MC was, and MC was a little short compared to OoS/OoA. But yea, maybe we should only give slot spots to only useful and unique items.

16 seems a little big imo, but 24 is pushing it. 13-14 seems adequate. At first, I thought we were going for an item grabber, having link stack up to about 28 items!I must admit, that would have been pretty sweet. But we should think about this logically, as to what link doses and goes on his quest.

yea, a poll would do great.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2011, 05:16:54 pm »
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There should be one unique main item for each dungeon as we know how Zelda works, so 4 of those plus generic zelda items (bomb, arrows, boomerang...).  After that, there are the side items, such as magic beans from OoT and rings from OoS/OoA (I'm using these as examples, I'm not suggesting to include them).  And then sword and shield upgrades.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2011, 05:44:24 pm »
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There should be one unique main item for each dungeon as we know how Zelda works, so 4 of those plus generic zelda items (bomb, arrows, boomerang...).  After that, there are the side items, such as magic beans from OoT and rings from OoS/OoA (I'm using these as examples, I'm not suggesting to include them).  And then sword and shield upgrades.

I agree with this completely. I'd love to see rings make a return.
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King Tetiro

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2011, 07:50:22 pm »
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Might I suggest the spinner from Twilight Princess? Because it could easily work in 2D as apart from altitude in TP, it mainly was used on a 2 Dimensional plane.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2011, 10:09:48 pm »
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I actually hated the spinner, and most items in TP, actually I hated TP, the items were only used inside the dungeon, and most dungeons were really easy like you only had one key at any time during a dungeon, and most dungeons contained a room with two doors, you enter door A and it was locked, so you knew you had to go to door B grab the key and return to door A, all dungeons were the same even WW did something of this but WW is funnier :).

Anyways, I guess we should follow what 2d games did, mostly OoS/OoA, they had some sweet items and they made it work.
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King Tetiro

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2011, 10:43:45 pm »
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I actually hated the spinner, and most items in TP, actually I hated TP, the items were only used inside the dungeon, and most dungeons were really easy like you only had one key at any time during a dungeon, and most dungeons contained a room with two doors, you enter door A and it was locked, so you knew you had to go to door B grab the key and return to door A, all dungeons were the same even WW did something of this but WW is funnier :).

Anyways, I guess we should follow what 2d games did, mostly OoS/OoA, they had some sweet items and they made it work.
Maybe we could redeem the Spinner. I feel that it was underrated in TP. I agree the rest of the items were naff but the Spinner had something new to it.
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2011, 04:16:58 am »
  • AKA "Micah DS"
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I know I'm not officially working on this project, but I really think that it's important for an item to be explored in it's functionality to figure out it's usefulness before it should even be accepted as a candidate for the items that will be used in KoT. I think items should be explored in this way, then added to a vote list. Once we reach a good amount of items to vote for (however many that is), set up the voting and have everyone choose their top 5-10 items. For voting, all the brainstormed uses of items should be presented so that people can better choose a GOOD item. After voting is closed, you simply choose the highest rated items and walla, items are decided upon. Unfortunately, the polls on here don't seem like they would work too well because in this case it seems better to vote for your top 5-10 items from a list, not just 1 item. Anyway, I'm just trying to avoid clutter and to help things get worked out quickly and smoothly.

MY THOUGHTS ON GIMMICKY ITEMS VS. NON-GIMMICKY ITEMS:
Show content
Now the spinner was another item (like the rod from TP) that felt kind of gimmicky to me because it needed either a railway in a wall or a perfectly formed gear slot in the ground to work. The reason why it seems stupid to me is because it makes no sense that it would fit perfectly in something that wasn't supposed to be made for it, or maybe it was, so then you'd have to conclude that for some weird reason a railway on the other side of the world was made for this device, which seems kinda lame and unbelievable if you follow what I mean. In contrast, bombs feel a lot more natural and believable, because rocks and weak walls all over a world make more sense than railways in walls that the spinner just happens to fit in perfectly. It feels like the item idea is cool, but that it had to be a little too forced to make it useful in the game. Now, I know that there are always items that feel this way to a certain extent with ANY Zelda game, but I feel that the spinner is one of the items that had to be forced a little too much.

So I would vote against having the spinner AS IT IS. However, if someone can come up with new functionality and to give insight that makes it feel more believable, fun, useful, then I'm all for it.

That being said, here's a small example of brainstorming for the spinner:
Show content
Let's say the game has some steampunk elements and Link often comes across machines with gears. Maybe a gear is broken and it's causing the machine to stop working, so Link can destroy the gear with his sword or bombs, then Link can use the spinner in place of the gear and make the machine work. Perhaps the spinner is designed to form various sizes of gears by extending the prongs (or whatever you'd call them) to various lengths to fit; this makes it more believable that it doesn't just fit perfectly with anything for no reason.

Honestly though, I don't see enough potential in the spinner when there are so many other items to choose from.

Edit:
I have another idea for the spinner: Perhaps it could be used to pick certain heavy duty locks. Since the prongs could extend out to different lengths, maybe some doors would have a sort of inset star/gear pattern and you would have to insert the spinner in the door and maybe even use it like a dial on a safe. Not the best idea, but hey, I'm just throwing it out there.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 04:23:12 am by Frozen炎 »
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2011, 09:36:01 pm »
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That is a very interesting point.  Comparing TP to OoT, we'll see that items in OoT just work in that world (eye switches for example, are all over the place.  Projectiles just happen to be perfect for activating them).  As opposed to TP, it feels like many of the items only worked in specific locations, which didn't make any sense as to why they worked there other than because the lego fits in the other lego. 
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2011, 04:13:21 am »
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 8)

What's the main sword in the game(like the sword link's gonna use)? Are we using an original item?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2011, 01:03:59 pm »
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I think the trend for a starting sword is usually just some generic sword name, or the wooden sword.  Perhaps the thief's sword?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2011, 07:32:27 am »
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I think we should start off like that. Just start with a simple name and ability?

Spinner - Can create mini tornadoes to destroy things. Unlocks several puzzles in dungeons.

I think the Spinner would be a great addition, it can be used as a magic/key weapon.

EDIT: How about Link starts off with a wooden sword(or stick) at first, then upgrades to a thief dagger(kinda like the hero's sword in WW), then ultimately to the final sword?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 07:37:40 am by The gold chuchu »
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2011, 01:58:16 pm »
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The spinner creating tornados is interesting.  It can potentially solve the "lego fitting into another lego" issue.  It gives it an ability that's based on nature rather than one of its physical shape, so therefore puzzles across the game that use it make more sense. 

I think the wooden sword is a good start for the player, then progressing as you said.  Any ideas on the final sword?  Is it the Master Sword?
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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2011, 07:07:40 pm »
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I think the spinner would make a good item for "getting around" as well, like scaling certain walls, or a trench, carrying you across on a something. So yea, it would come in handy in a dungeon.

Maybe we should make the final sword the Master Sword, because Link is going up against Ganon anyway. It makes sense. With a little tweaking to the storyline, the Master Sword would make a great appearance in the game. So maybe the line would be a little like this:

Wooden Sword >> Thief's Dagger >> Master Sword

Maybe the dagger could be updated in some sort, maybe by one of Hyrule's smiths. Forging it into the Hero's Sword?
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