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Author Topic: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16th, 2008  (Read 7332 times)

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[ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16th, ...
« on: November 16, 2008, 05:43:14 pm »
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If ZFGC were to have an official part of the staff dedicated to setting up events, handling news items, etc., would you be interested in being a part of it?
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2008, 05:49:43 pm »
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I'd like to handle the news items and stuff, although I wouldn't be on all the time. Still, a dedicated part of the staff is a good idea, and I think it should be instituted. Would help out immensely, I'm sure.
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DJvenom

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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 07:24:40 pm »
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Does 4sword NOT already do this? It's obvious that he does it since his name is in the topics, so seriously I don't think a seperate rank should be made, since apparently it was a pain in the ass just to make "The Pumpkin King" rank, which has no special permissions. Event staff should just be made local mods on the boards they need to be and then they can sticky/move topics as deemed necessary. And before you think I'm being pesimistic about this, This is just my opinion. People volunteered to set up news reports and weekly magazines, they weren't appointed. If you don't want to do these things without some special rank, step aside and let someone who WANTS to do it without any special recognization. Just my opinion though. I would be happy to be in 4sword's position, being able to write the magazine for a forum like ZFGC, but I wasn't chosen. Giving the event staff a seperate rank would seperate them from non-staff members, which would take the whole "community-run" community feel out of the forum, also.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 07:33:31 pm »
  • Minalien
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Does 4sword NOT already do this? It's obvious that he does it since his name is in the topics, so seriously I don't think a seperate rank should be made, since apparently it was a pain in the ass just to make "The Pumpkin King" rank, which has no special permissions. Event staff should just be made local mods on the boards they need to be and then they can sticky/move topics as deemed necessary. And before you think I'm being pesimistic about this, This is just my opinion. People volunteered to set up news reports and weekly magazines, they weren't appointed. If you don't want to do these things without some special rank, step aside and let someone who WANTS to do it without any special recognization. Just my opinion though. I would be happy to be in 4sword's position, being able to write the magazine for a forum like ZFGC, but I wasn't chosen. Giving the event staff a seperate rank would seperate them from non-staff members, which would take the whole "community-run" community feel out of the forum, also.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 07:42:46 pm »
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Zidane used to help, I asked Darklight to help me out and he did not respond even though he was on for a few hours after I sent him the PM, and bertfallen kind of helps me with this now.  This instablility is often counter-productive and it would be beneficial to have people helping me who would have the same primary goal.  The problem now is that volunteers who work for the site have no place to effectively collaborate nor do they have a way of actively working with the moderators to do certain necessary things.

By having a more concentrated work force, the news would be better, there would be more variety in such news, the events would happen without being rushed to a point of irrelevancy, etc.  As for the Pumpkin King rank, perhaps I am rusty with how SMF works, but setting it up should not have been that difficult - really all it is a custom rank that has the same permissions as a regular member.  If a staff person were to have it as their rank, their staff ranks could be set to primary so nothing really would have changed for them.

This ranking would also make it a lot easier to communicate with the administration in that, for example, I would not have to make proposals each and every time I had an idea that had some thought in it and send it via PM to them.  By being in the staff, these things could be discussed and decided upon more efficiently.  It would also make it so I was not doing most if not all of the work.
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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 07:50:42 pm »
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The problem now is that volunteers who work for the site have no place to effectively collaborate nor do they have a way of actively working with the moderators to do certain necessary things. I agree that event staff shouldn't have to rely on moderators to do things as simple as moving topics or closing them. In the same breath, I don't agree that a seperate rank should be made for permissions that local mods can already do.
Thats why I said to make them staff of necessary board.
This ranking would also make it a lot easier to communicate with the administration in that, for example, I would not have to make proposals each and every time I had an idea that had some thought in it and send it via PM to them. 
Pitching ideas in community speak usually gets the best feedback. I don't see how making event staff mods would make communicating with infini any more efficient. He doesn't read PM's from mods quicker then from regular members, I'm sure. Also, I think running ideas by the community to see if they're as good as you think they might be. Personal Icons and zoomable pictures were good examples of this.

Not trying to nitpick. I'm just saying, lots of people have ideas, and I personally think they should just come out with them and post them in community speak because you never know if your idea might be what brings this community closer together. Just pitching it to infini doesn't guarantee it will happen, but if you pitch it to infini backed with a post that has a bunch of members saying "DO IT!" your idea may be  more likely to come to fruition :)
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 08:02:05 pm »
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Making them staff of a necessary board isn't a good solution because often there are multiple boards which require staffing.  Thus the operational, public boards have to be locally moderated and the planning, hidden boards have to be locally moderated - anywhere else requires those working on events and such to PM a moderator to get things done and for whatever reason the moderators are slow, don't really care, or are busy.  I shouldn't have to ask someone something every time just to get the same thing done.

If I were to pitch ideas more and more in places such as Community Speak then that would ultimately lead to people wondering why the hell I was not on the staff already or why the staff were not able to really do this themselves.  The communication for what I was proposed was internal, with event staffers conversing amongst themselves and the moderation for things that they needed - and by any measure, it is better than the current system.

As for getting responses back from Infini, I know that he is busy, but in reality, he is the only administrator who is ever really on this place who isn't hidden.  I know that he posts some of my ideas in the staff area, but I also know that the moderations response to even that is slow.  It isn't so much just about what the community thinks is cool so much as it is what ZFGC can offer those who come here.

The funny thing is that your last point favors popularity rather than practicality.  A popular idea doesn't always work, especially if the negative aspects are neglected.


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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 08:17:31 pm »
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People can locally mod more then 1 board.

Also, my last statement doesn't favor popularity. It's simply saying ask members if they think it's a good idea first. This is an example. My idea might be to have a dropbox in he bottom corner of the forum that lets you quick-select your theme. I pitch it to infini, who let's say browses with google chrome. The script works fine in google chrome, and firefox, but causes the forum to be un-browsable in IE or Opera. Now what if I would have pitched it to the whole forum first? There would have been replies like "Hey, that script doesnt work in IE, or Opera." thus they would have been against it...

I'm not promoting bandwagoning. Just having stuff run by the community BEFORE it's run by staff... Otherwise they're gonna get flooded with some ideas that are completely stupid, like quick-selecting theme drop boxes. Also makes it seem like the staff is changing the forum without consulting the community either.

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for whatever reason the moderators are slow, don't really care, or are busy.
I'm pretty sure they care about the forum, but moving a topic that can be moved after responding to a reported offensive topic usually tends to fall to the bottom of the priority list. That's why I'm saying Event staff need to simply be local modded on all necessary forums. As in ALL the ones you'd need to move/delete stuff from... Not just some of them. ALL of them.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 08:41:59 pm »
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I know that people can locally moderate more than one board, it just looks dumb when there is one person moderating more than one board over a single, certain thing.  It's a clutter to have my name plastered all over the top part of the forum, even under something that is official, and yet I am not official.  The reason you do not see this as so bad is simply because I am doing a lot.  If I acted like a normal person and divvied up responsibility amongst multiple people, then there would be more than one local moderators of different boards all for the sake of a simple, certain thing.  And still, they would have nowhere to collaborate with themselves or with the moderation easily.

It is not as if ideas would not be run by the community, in fact, they are and have been.  The Halloween Contest idea was essentially derived from what I had posted in Feedback and I owe Q.K. for the ideas of progressing it further.  To have people working on the idea though and actually putting it through its paces so that there is an actual result rather than just a concept, you need people would are committed to working on it.  And you're forgetting that the news really doesn't have to be run through the community each time an item pops up for it, rather, it just has to be actively updated to be viable on some level.

If you are worried about the staff getting run with ideas that are stupid, then having an events staff would at least make it so that the other staff would not have to sift through those ideas as they have other things to do.  It someone had an idea, then the event staff could look into it and formulate its viability before it was proposed to a higher level.

And for some of your last example, not all ideas would be handled by the events staff, such as forum functionality.  I don't know where you are going with that.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 08:44:33 pm by 4Sword »
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2008, 08:45:34 pm »
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2008, 08:55:23 pm »
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I'm not even gonna bother defending myself, because you're just gonna !@#$% nitpick anything I say opposing it to death. I'm obviously oblivious to how hard coordinating forum events are because I never had to do it before. Congrats on mod, 4sword, because you apparently aren't going to !@#$% shut up about it until it happens... And why shouldn't you be mod? You've spent about 1/3 of your life on this forum! :) So again, Congrats!

Date Registered: April 01, 2006
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 09:04:02 pm »
  • Minalien
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Allow me to add my thoughts to this mix:

Shut the !@#$% up and stop nitpicking everything, 4Sword. The question of the week is on what peoples' thoughts on it are. This isn't a !@#$% debate topic about whether or not it should be done.

Thank you.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2008, 09:11:08 pm »
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If ZFGC were to have an official part of the staff dedicated to setting up events, handling news items, etc., would you be interested in being a part of it?

I recall doing it once. -- The Events team. It didn't work out so well.

It worked best when staff as a whole suggested ideas and ran their own suggestions.. and it works fine... when users do the same.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2008, 09:17:38 pm »
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I'm not even gonna bother defending myself, because you're just gonna !@#$% nitpick anything I say opposing it to death. I'm obviously oblivious to how hard coordinating forum events are because I never had to do it before. Congrats on mod, 4sword, because you apparently aren't going to !@#$% shut up about it until it happens... And why shouldn't you be mod? You've spent about 1/3 of your life on this forum! :) So again, Congrats!

Date Registered: April 01, 2006
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It's funny because right in your first sentence you insinuated that I was attacking you, and then in your last sentence you go on attacking me although all I have been going after on you was the validity and relevancy of your ideas.  Nit-picking would be picking just one or a few things and then using that in an argument, but I was going after every idea that I came into disagreement with and saying why I thought it has not worked.  If I wrote any less wordy, there would be a loss of meaning.

Overall, users here have ideas, but there are certain users who are more vocal about their ideas than others.  There are users who will just agree because they like the person voicing the idea, and that really does not strengthen the idea all that much.  It goes to be that moderators and the staff were supposed to be handling contests and events though, and that almost all and died here.  I just think by having a group of people who can work with themselves in a space where those moderators that feel they can help are willing to, that that would be a good thing.

Allow me to add my thoughts to this mix:

Shut the !@#$% up and stop nitpicking everything, 4Sword. The question of the week is on what peoples' thoughts on it are. This isn't a !@#$% debate topic about whether or not it should be done.

Thank you.


There is nothing wrong with how I have posted in this topic other than it bothers some people to read that much.  And besides, this topic has gotten more replies this way which is good for it.

If ZFGC were to have an official part of the staff dedicated to setting up events, handling news items, etc., would you be interested in being a part of it?

I recall doing it once. -- The Events team. It didn't work out so well.

It worked best when staff as a whole suggested ideas and ran their own suggestions.. and it works fine... when users do the same.

It is not as if I wasn't there for that.  it failed due to a lack of ideas and lack of things to do.  With the site there is more to do that requires people.  One cannot just apply the past as a be-all end-all result of something that would be attempted later.  If everything was the same, then I would agree, but it is not.  There is z3, NCFC, news items, holiday contests, gaming tournaments, etc. to set up, with a site to help out, and thus I feel that an events staff would be viable now.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2008, 09:22:57 pm »
  • I put this here for the sake of that one thread
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Easy_D's easy solutions.

Make your own god damn forum.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2008, 09:23:30 pm »
  • Minalien
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If ZFGC were to have an official part of the staff dedicated to setting up events, handling news items, etc., would you be interested in being a part of it?

I recall doing it once. -- The Events team. It didn't work out so well.

It worked best when staff as a whole suggested ideas and ran their own suggestions.. and it works fine... when users do the same.
It is not as if I wasn't there for that.  it failed due to a lack of ideas and lack of things to do.  With the site there is more to do that requires people.  One cannot just apply the past as a be-all end-all result of something that would be attempted later.  If everything was the same, then I would agree, but it is not.  There is z3, NCFC, news items, holiday contests, gaming tournaments, etc. to set up, with a site to help out, and thus I feel that an events staff would be viable now.
We have had an events staff more than just once. MANY times, in fact. They all failed in proportions so epic it can only be compared to Hitler's campaign in World War 2.


Easy_D's easy solutions.

Make your own god damn forum.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2008, 09:23:39 pm »
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Without really reading what you said minus 'i'. - I don't specifically think I was talking about -you-. I didn't realize this topic was about *you*. I'm in no way attempting to 'troll' the topic, but jesus? I was answering bert's question.

We never had success with an events team, ever. z3 never happened. NCFC is NOT ours to organize, nor did we have a major part in the organization of it (aside from Windfyre providing chat hosting). Possum was the events manager, he poofed. Tara was the events manager, she poofed. The only good events admin we had that was never declared one, aside from unofficially, was Mammy.. he took care of !@#$% got !@#$% done. Helios has also had much success with it.

I'd love to give a raw unfiltered opinion on the matter-- but that's not what this topic is about, the topic is about answering berts question, which no one is having success with doing, it's all being taken personally.. which isn't the purpose of these openended questions.. the goal is to seek feedback.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 09:23:43 pm »
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Just a quick question...

How much longer are you going to go on about not being a mod or not having some sort of power?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 09:25:34 pm by Zidane »
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 09:25:03 pm »
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Easy_D's easy solutions.

Make your own god damn forum.
Sounds good to me.
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Re: [ZFGC Weekly] The Big Question - November 16...
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 09:27:28 pm »
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Oh, these guys are mad.

Serious business.
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