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Author Topic: z3 2010  (Read 19266 times)

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2010, 09:19:31 pm »
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There probably won't ever be a base or an audience for fan fiction. Otherwise having the event cover engines and possibly sprite-related sub-contests would probably be a step in a more expansive direction that didn't get our feet stuck in a muck of boring !@#$%. An application form put out too early could likely result in mass signup but later low turnout, announcing that is going to happen is good for now, using the event to improve the forum's infrastructure, etc.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2010, 09:41:10 pm »
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I noticed that on most "fan forums" people get really into it releasing huge PDF files... but no one here has ever really been enthused about that sort of thing.  I was just thinking aloud.

Yeah, ZFGC has always had a difficult time with expansion (that's what z3 was supposed to be for in the first place -- lol).  *Thinks back to 2007.*  The difficult thing about this sort of event is how reliant it is on member participation.  Remember that delay we had year one?

Mass sign-up and a low turnout is all apart of the game.  You're gonna have that no matter what.  Even if the "booth" was required to be sent as apart of the application, most people are gonna ignore it and send in worthless applications anyway.

All the same... a positive attitude is the first step.
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Mirby

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2010, 10:44:21 pm »
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2AWESOME4APOSSUM?!?!?!? When did you get here?

Yes, a positive attitude is the first step for many things. If you look on it badly, it'll end up badly. Positivity and optimism are the keys to success.

Anyone else think that sounded to motivation-y?
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2010, 11:10:24 pm »
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Well, I wouldn't set the fan fiction idea aside so easily. Basically fan fiction is writing a story. Many members on this forum have been doing that for ages. Each new concept is often based on a story and not on a game mechanic. I still think that actual game projects should be the main focus, but it couldn't hurt to have an 'Others' section.

And among others I think about:
- Fan fiction stories
- People that are reorchestrating music themes from Zelda.
- People busy with huge spriting projects for characters in a specific style or creating zelda spritesheets in their own style.

Although they aren't game projects, they still are resource projects that contribute to possible future fan game development. But like I said: It can't hurt to have an others section, but that does not mean that we have to allow anything in. You could set minimum requirements. And only if people are interested in handing in decent work and a large amount of work.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 11:12:13 pm by Niek »
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King Tetiro

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2010, 11:38:08 pm »
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OMFG!!! IT'S POSSUM!!!
Hopefully I'll have Chiming Bells for z3
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2010, 12:42:49 am »
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* Admits to clicking on this topic solely because I saw Possum. (In case Possum reads this, this is Moldrill :P)

Who else can admit to that... I'm not the only one who got a boner for Possum's name showing up again did I?
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Mirby

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2010, 12:46:20 am »
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If there's still a non-Zelda category, I'll enter RoNF. Otherwise, I'll work on Bloodlines some more. Get it halfway done finally...
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2010, 09:05:00 am »
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Well, I wouldn't set the fan fiction idea aside so easily. Basically fan fiction is writing a story. Many members on this forum have been doing that for ages. Each new concept is often based on a story and not on a game mechanic. I still think that actual game projects should be the main focus, but it couldn't hurt to have an 'Others' section.

And among others I think about:
- Fan fiction stories
- People that are reorchestrating music themes from Zelda.
- People busy with huge spriting projects for characters in a specific style or creating zelda spritesheets in their own style.

Although they aren't game projects, they still are resource projects that contribute to possible future fan game development. But like I said: It can't hurt to have an others section, but that does not mean that we have to allow anything in. You could set minimum requirements. And only if people are interested in handing in decent work and a large amount of work.

First, I'm totally agreeing with what Niek is saying.

I've noticed that, when people offer help on a project, so many people will say something like, "I haven't got much skill in ___ or ___ but I could help write the story." Actually, the reason why I started making my Zelda game is because I had a story that I really wanted to make in to a game. HOWEVER, I think it should only be Zelda fan fiction, otherwise it goes a little too far out of bounds imo.

I think that any OTHER things (besides games) that are submitted must be useful as a resource (or should at least focus on game development in some way, obviously). Here are two lists of things that I think we should allow; one for Zelda-related things and one for Other-related things:
(Pretty much what you find in the "resources tab")

ZELDA:
  • Zelda Games:
    Full-on Zelda game projects (obviously a must).
  • Zelda Tutorials:
    Examples/tutorials that show things like, how to make a Zelda profile menu, pausing, movement engine, enemy ai, making a HUD, etc. Anything that people can learn from and use in their own personal project.
    Editable Game Maker 7 & 8 files would probably be preferred, but there's no reason to say no to tutorials made in MMF2, C++, or anything else really. Of course whatever language they are made in, they should ALWAYS be properly commented so that people can understand why things work the way they do, to avoid having people copy and paste things they don't understand in hopes that it will work even though they don't understand it (and when it doesn't work -> coming on the forums and asking annoying questions that could have been answered with proper commenting!! ::))
  • Zelda Templates:
    A lot like examples/tutorials, only these would have to be more like a "starting kit" to give someone a place to begin. An example of this would be a working profile menu that leads to an area where Link has movement programmed and the basic items (sword, bow, bombs, etc). It would be something that people should be able to use as a base/beginning for their game.
  • Graphics:
    • Sprite Sheets:
      Sheets of Link, items, enemies, objects, etc.
    • Tile Sets:
      Overworld tiles, underworld/dungeon tiles, anything that makes up a world that generally is not a living thing (though animated water and flowers and those kind of things would be an exception).
  • Reorchestrated/Remixed Zelda Music:
    Formats allowed could be midi and mp3.
  • Zelda Stories/Fan Fiction:
    Stories could help others get new ideas and could help inspire people to develop more Zelda games and resources. Obviously we'd have to set certain standards to make sure that we got some serious stories and not a bunch of unoriginal quickie stories with no depth and little plot. Everyone can write a story, but few can write a REAL story.

OTHER:
  • Non-Zelda Games:
    Any other game project.
  • General Tutorials:
    Pretty much what I said in the Zelda tutorials section above. Except, any "general tutorial" should be useful in pretty much any game, Zelda or otherwise. The main idea for a tutorial is to encourage learning about how to code various things (enemy ai, how to pause, how to design an interesting world, making a platform engine, etc).
  • Graphics:
    • Sprite Sheets:
      Sheets of characters, items, enemies, objects, etc.
    • Tile Sets:
      Just like what is said for the Zelda section, except these tile sets wouldn't be Zelda related.

AWARDS:
For each category there would be various awards, but most awards would focus on Zelda games (like Kren said: best solo Zelda, best team Zelda, best original gameplay, etc) while some categories would only have one award (e.g. the Zelda music would just have "best Zelda music"). The amount of rewards for each category really depends on the number of submissions for each category, but games are more like the main categories and they should have multiple awards (since they are basically all of the other things put together, which makes the game) while things like tiles and music are all sub-categories and should generally have only one or maybe two awards for each thing.

I think awards should focus first on Zelda games (meaning the most awards offered, all for different aspects of the game), second on templates and tutorials (e.g. best GM tutorial, best GM template, best MMF2 tutorial, etc), third on non-Zelda games, and fourth on Zelda graphics (best tile set, best sprite sheet, etc). Everything else probably only needs just one award (for being best of its category).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 09:34:01 am by FrozenFire »
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2010, 05:16:34 pm »
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An application topic will be out a month before the start of the event in August, but it is not necessary now. Having it out now would get responses from users who are enthused by the idea of having the event, while I'd rather put it out later so that those applying are doing so on the basis of their progress. A better, feasible measure in the meantime would be to set up private boards for groups of users who wish to release a project as a team.

I still think that fan fiction and missed are not prevalent or popular enough to have their own categories in the event or possibly to even be in the event. And while the Zelda categories should have divisions and awards for each division, and Other would consist of all non-Zelda games, engines, etc. with an award given to what is best of all of that.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2010, 05:41:57 pm »
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An application topic will be out a month before the start of the event in August, but it is not necessary now. Having it out now would get responses from users who are enthused by the idea of having the event, while I'd rather put it out later so that those applying are doing so on the basis of their progress. A better, feasible measure in the meantime would be to set up private boards for groups of users who wish to release a project as a team.

Agreed.

I still think that fan fiction and missed are not prevalent or popular enough to have their own categories in the event or possibly to even be in the event. And while the Zelda categories should have divisions and awards for each division, and Other would consist of all non-Zelda games, engines, etc. with an award given to what is best of all of that.

Upon further thought, I also agree with everything said here. Except, are we going to allow non-Zelda graphics? If so, then I don't think it would be fair to have just one award when both non-Zelda games and graphics can be entered (since they are so different). Unless non-Zelda graphics are not gong to be allowed, I think we should have one for non-Zelda games and one for best non-Zelda graphics.

I personally wouldn't care if non-Zelda graphics were not allowed, but I don't know about other people.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2010, 06:18:06 pm »
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If the awards were going to be Best in Show, Best Zelda Solo Game, Best Zelda Team Game, Best Zelda Engine, and Best Other Project; possibly having graphics as its own category would be alright - it'd be a merged one for the sake of turnout.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2010, 06:40:27 pm »
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I still think that fan fiction and missed are not prevalent or popular enough to have their own categories in the event or possibly to even be in the event.
I don't agree with this completely. I do think you should allow fan fiction, music, art work and graphics concerning Zelda, as long as it are larger projects.  I never said that you had to make separate categories for them. You could put it all in the left over bin of 'Other'. You don't even need to give awards for them. If someone wants to submit such a project, I do think you should allow it if it has enough bulk to show.

I don't think you should guide yourself by whether it is popular or not, but by whether there are some members that want to show it of, even if it is just one or two projects. It should not be denied just because it isn't popular.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2010, 07:09:12 pm »
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Meh, I guess you are right on that; if anything, instead of having a Graphics category it should be a category for everything else beyond the Zelda categories for games/engines and the Other category which would be mostly Other games/engines.
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pxl_moon (dotyue)

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2010, 07:38:30 pm »
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i agree with that too
Z3 is an Expo and if a developer decides to have a "book" in his booth then there shouldn't be a problem since an expo is not a competition even when there are awards... the awards are just looks what the people looking at all booths think is the best of each category, that doesn't concern the overall quality.
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2010, 09:32:44 pm »
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Quote
2AWESOME4APOSSUM?!?!?!? When did you get here?
Just yesterday.  A lot's happened since I was last here ... I discovered I have OCD, I got married, and I've started trying to write for a living.  (Easy way to go broke, but a lot more fun than paying your way through college by telemarketing.)

Quote
Who else can admit to that... I'm not the only one who got a boner for Possum's name showing up again did I?
... oh my gosh.

*waves mace around at Breedlove*

Anyhow, nice to see everyone again!  The name changes are throwing me off, as usual, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. ;)

Quote
Z3 is an Expo and if a developer decides to have a "book" in his booth then there shouldn't be a problem since an expo is not a competition even when there are awards... the awards are just looks what the people looking at all booths think is the best of each category, that doesn't concern the overall quality.
I completely agree.

More than anything, z3 was first and foremost a vanity event we used for recruiting.  Members were supposed to get all reinvigorated with their projects, and set up a nice little booth that would make them feel good about themselves.

In the meantime, I tried to recruit old members and people I hoped who'd become future members.  (I think Lupin was my only success there ...)

True, some people may be in it for the mass-attention, but I think those who are really going somewhere with their projects are in it for the one or two genuine compliments.

On the other hand, I definitely do think that there should be a consistent standard of content in the booths.  It's a tricky question, but I think discussing it is healthy.
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Mirby

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2010, 09:52:17 pm »
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BTW, I was dakirbymaster -> MetaKirby -> Mirby. So you know. Good to hear you're doing fine!

Also, I would like to enter this year. I think my games are coming along nicely (despite the fact I'm using RPG Maker for one and Zelda Classic for the other because I'm atrocious at programming from scratch).
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2010, 10:17:06 pm »
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Z3 is an Expo and if a developer decides to have a "book" in his booth then there shouldn't be a problem since an expo is not a competition even when there are awards... the awards are just looks what the people looking at all booths think is the best of each category, that doesn't concern the overall quality.

The whole "z3" thing is very new to me (I never knew about previous z3's), so I did not think of it that way.

Oh, and Mirby.. wait for the application topic? I think we all know that you plan on entering. XD (good to see that you're excited about your games though! ;))

And speaking of the application topic: posting the sign-up topic one month before the Expo sounds great. How is it usually "advertised" so that everyone will be sure to notice it throughout the entire month? Is it just going to be posted in the news? I'm just saying, it would be really nice to make sure everyone knows about it (of course this topic is helping with that). I actually don't remember a z3 2009; I missed it somehow. But I never had anything to enter then anyway. ;p
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Mamoruanime

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2010, 10:27:18 pm »
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Meh, I guess you are right on that; if anything, instead of having a Graphics category it should be a category for everything else beyond the Zelda categories for games/engines and the Other category which would be mostly Other games/engines.

I can't particularly agree with this one, but you know my reasons :p

Development = all aspects of game design, not just programming. To glorify one aspect, and leave the others in some other misc grouping is kind of lame.

My personal thoughts---

Leave the "Zelda" preffix out entirely. Majority of our games here are zelda WIPs anyway, so it just seems unnecessary. Other categories should still be there, regardless of how many "potential" registrations we get.

Should be divisions for each major category-

Best Team-
 Completed Game
 WIP Game
Best One-Person-
 Completed Game
 WIP Game

Best Graphics
Best Story
Best Music
etc

But completely leave out the "Zelda" prefix, since it's just entirely unneeded, and it really limits the number of entries. Just subclassing everything else as "other" is kind of a slap in the face to people who just simply don't feel like programming either. There are many many many different aspects to development beyond programming. There's no proper way to give them awards if that's the case.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 10:30:33 pm by Mamoruanime »
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Mirby

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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2010, 10:36:49 pm »
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Other has a connotation to me that says, "There's THIS STUFF and then... the other stuff..  yeah we're only doing this to be nice we don't really care about other". So yeah...
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Re: z3 2010
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2010, 10:42:45 pm »
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Off-topic; Hi Possum! Member formerly known as Knivu here. Good to see someone else wants to be a writer...even if this writer is currently in college :P
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well i dont have that system and it is very hard to care about everything when you are single
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