ZFGC
Projects => Discussion => Topic started by: FrozenFire on February 20, 2012, 08:57:00 am
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(I hope this is the right place to post since it is related to my game developing endeavours, but it's kinda in the gray. Meh, move if you wish, mods.)
http://gamemakerblog.com/2011/10/25/vlambeers-serious-sam-the-random-encounter-published-to-steam/ (http://gamemakerblog.com/2011/10/25/vlambeers-serious-sam-the-random-encounter-published-to-steam/)
So it looks as if it's possible to sell Game Maker games on Steam, natively. O,o WHA?! However, I'll still probably want to code in Monkey, because I'm afraid that Game Maker won't play as well as it should with the Steamworks tools. But does anyone know anything about this? Anyone have any information at all on Game Maker games sold on Steam? I'm super curious about this. If no one knows anything, I'm going to find a way to contact Steam/Steamworks and ask them about it (not sure I'd get a reply though, since they've probably had more than enough inexperienced/lazy Game Maker people asking questions). If I can't use Game Maker, then I'll bite the bullet and go the way of the Monkey (learning a much less visual coding program, being highly motivated by the thought of getting paid). Either way, I'd have to literally work my butt off to get a game on Steam, but it'd be so worth it!
Steamworks website: http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/ (http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/)
In the mean time, I'm researching like crazy as well as brainstorming for the game that I want to create as my first commercial game.
If anyone has any info at all on selling Game Maker games via Steam, I'm all ears. And I'm sure that there are other people that would like to know as well.
EDIT:
Just found out about Game Maker 9 and that during 2012 all versions of GM will get a "complete rewrite", and they mention supporting Steam:
http://www.yoyogames.com/news/45 (http://www.yoyogames.com/news/45)
(guess that's pretty old news, but I've been out of the GM loop for a while, and I thought some other people might not know this stuff either)
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Wow. That is actually some really great news. I don't have any plans to move to another programming platform, but I have become increasingly interested in selling my games, so this would be a very welcome development from my perspective. Unfortunately I don't have anything to add to the validity of selling GM games via steam as this is the first I have heard of it, but I hope it will!
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I've never seen why you couldn't sell a game made with GM through a platform like steam, I think the reason most people think it won't happen is the average quality of GM games is very low. Really, as long as you keep a focus on making sure your game is up to scratch and doesn't use another game's resources you have a chance.
I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement steamworks, but it's possible.
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I've never seen why you couldn't sell a game made with GM through a platform like steam, I think the reason most people think it won't happen is the average quality of GM games is very low. Really, as long as you keep a focus on making sure your game is up to scratch and doesn't use another game's resources you have a chance.
I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement steamworks, but it's possible.
Actually, I was surprised to hear this simply because I didn't think Game Maker would play well with the Steamworks SDK, or if GM would like the API. And I was also wondering if it was capable of being protected by DRM (pretty sure it can't be in it's native form, unfortunately). I know that Game Maker isn't supported super well, but I'm hoping that it will be supported more fully when GM9 comes out, and it is already possible to get a GM game on to Steam natively anyway. I'm just not too sure about some of the details, and it's hard to get details when you don't already have a complete/near-complete game, since they only let you in on more of the details after you've submitted your game. :/
Either way, I won't let it stop me from developing my game in GM. I'll just get at making my game and I'll work things out with Steam when the time comes. Even if it means porting a completed game to a new language that I barely know, I'd already have most of the work done. Seeing it this way, I think it's better to start with GM than to wait until I know more. BUT if anyone knows more, I'd love to be as informed as possible. XD
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That's kinda dangerous, actually. Cuz if they find out that Steam is hosting games that are published and SOLD that are actually infringing on copyrights (like a Zelda fangame), it could go the way of Megaupload, which is a path of no return.
I would kindly warn against messing with this and just walk away.
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That's kinda dangerous, actually. Cuz if they find out that Steam is hosting games that are published and SOLD that are actually infringing on copyrights (like a Zelda fangame), it could go the way of Megaupload, which is a path of no return.
I would kindly warn against messing with this and just walk away.
I guess I forgot to mention that I was talking about an IP, not a fan game of any kind but something made completely by me. It's obviously illegal to sell copyrighted material when you don't have the right given to you by whomever holds the rights. On top of that, there's no way Steam would be stupid enough to pass a Zelda fan game anyway, since they have to check out your game to see if it's worthy to be sold. Since Nintendo holds the rights to Zelda, I think it's safe to say that Steam will never have a Zelda game, ever.
Anyway, I can see how you could misunderstand, since this is ZFGC after all. ... also, megaupload is dead. Government killed it because of illegal activity. :o EDIT: Annd I should learn to read or possibly get some sleep. I misread that part about megaupload. Sorry. ::)
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That's kinda dangerous, actually. Cuz if they find out that Steam is hosting games that are published and SOLD that are actually infringing on copyrights (like a Zelda fangame), it could go the way of Megaupload, which is a path of no return.
I would kindly warn against messing with this and just walk away.
I don't think Steam is that stupid to sell games with copyright material. If the situation did arise, I am about 99% sure they have a legal failsafe that stipulates you(the developer) gets sued, not them(Steam).
Calm down. Nothing wrong with selling original games with original content on Steam using Game Maker.
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That's kinda dangerous, actually. Cuz if they find out that Steam is hosting games that are published and SOLD that are actually infringing on copyrights (like a Zelda fangame), it could go the way of Megaupload, which is a path of no return.
I would kindly warn against messing with this and just walk away.
I don't think Steam is that stupid to sell games with copyright material. If the situation did arise, I am about 99% sure they have a legal failsafe that stipulates you(the developer) gets sued, not them(Steam).
Calm down. Nothing wrong with selling original games with original content on Steam using Game Maker.
Yet the moment I state me and my team are producing a commercial game made with Game Maker, I get slandered because it's Game Maker :P
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When did that happen?
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When did that happen?
A good while ago. And recently on Zelda Universe forums
I still don't get why people care about what a game is developed in?
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I still don't get why people care about what a game is developed in?
They don't intrinsically. It's just that the majority of games made in gamemaker are complete !@#$%.
I really wouldn't get your hopes up though guys, steam is notoriously restrictive over what they allow into the store, your only real way as an indie is to already have an large established community around the game - as most indie games on steam have.
Send a message to the steamworks support team, and they will give you a brief overview of the TRC they require before releasing games on steam.
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I still don't get why people care about what a game is developed in?
They don't intrinsically. It's just that the majority of games made in gamemaker are complete !@#$%.
I really wouldn't get your hopes up though guys, steam is notoriously restrictive over what they allow into the store, your only real way as an indie is to already have an large established community around the game - as most indie games on steam have.
Send a message to the steamworks support team, and they will give you a brief overview of the TRC they require before releasing games on steam.
Which is a shame. Let's find out. I'm going to bring Legena back to ZFGC but this time round I've given it the same love I gave Chiming Bells but even more this time.
I agree with Infini on this actually. That's why I'm focusing on the game itself for now. If the game's well loved, THEN I'll annoy Steam lol
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Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
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Also bare in mind if you go to a game development company and say your first published game was made in gamemaker, you will be laughed out the door lol.
Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
Its amazing what people will throw their money at.
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Also bare in mind if you go to a game development company and say your first published game was made in gamemaker, you will be laughed out the door lol.
Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
Its amazing what people will throw their money at.
I would switch to C++ but there are things I still can't do. I'll be trying to solve those this summer.
What I don't understand is why the still slandering of game maker? It's got future porting to iOS/Android (Out this year), stuff on PSN, Steam?, HTML5 and all that. It's been praised by BAFTA and used to help the winners of the young developer awards build their game. Game Maker does so much yet people still shoot it down.
Especially as there's worse software. Torque for a start.
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Also bare in mind if you go to a game development company and say your first published game was made in gamemaker, you will be laughed out the door lol.
Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
Its amazing what people will throw their money at.
I would switch to C++ but there are things I still can't do. I'll be trying to solve those this summer.
What I don't understand is why the still slandering of game maker? It's got future porting to iOS/Android (Out this year), stuff on PSN, Steam?, HTML5 and all that. It's been praised by BAFTA and used to help the winners of the young developer awards build their game. Game Maker does so much yet people still shoot it down.
Especially as there's worse software. Torque for a start.
Can't really use the phone argument when you have !@#$% like angry birds selling, it doesn't help at all.
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Also bare in mind if you go to a game development company and say your first published game was made in gamemaker, you will be laughed out the door lol.
Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
Its amazing what people will throw their money at.
I would switch to C++ but there are things I still can't do. I'll be trying to solve those this summer.
What I don't understand is why the still slandering of game maker? It's got future porting to iOS/Android (Out this year), stuff on PSN, Steam?, HTML5 and all that. It's been praised by BAFTA and used to help the winners of the young developer awards build their game. Game Maker does so much yet people still shoot it down.
Especially as there's worse software. Torque for a start.
Simply put; game development is one of the most elitist industries around, unless you know assembly, or c++ inside and out you won't have a chance of getting a professional job.
Game Maker, despite its good ability to entice newcomers to programming and development of games games, it has many many flaws. It's completely impractical for performance critical code or low-level code, it's very very limiting, it teaches bad habits and design methodologies, not to mention the actual engine is proprietary and will not be made available any-time soon. It will never be taken seriously by the industry.
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Simply put; game development is one of the most elitist industries around, unless you know assembly, or c++ inside and out you won't have a chance of getting a professional job.
Game Maker, despite its good ability to entice newcomers to programming and development of games games, it has many many flaws. It's completely impractical for performance critical code or low-level code, it's very very limiting, it teaches bad habits and design methodologies, not to mention the actual engine is proprietary and will not be made available any-time soon. It will never be taken seriously by the industry.
Yeh I won't argue with the points you pointed out. I still believe though that GM should be taken more seriously. Even if it's half seriously. Still can't complain, I know how to make games in c++ and GM so I'll be fine.
I know alot of C++ inside out, just not a few things (I've actually made a few games with it. But they all have performance issues) . Once I know these things, I'll make the official jump.
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I know alot of C++ inside out
Why is a #define better than a const?
Explain stack unwinding.
What is difference between malloc/free and new/delete?
What is an anonymous namespace?
What is polymorphism?
What is template metaprogramming?
What is the mutable keyword used for?
What is a functor?
What is a dangling pointer?
What does RAII refer to?
What executes faster: ++i or i++, where i is an integer variable?
What is an example of when a destructor is NOT called at the end of scope?
Explain the difference between a struct and a class.
What is name mangling in C++?
Hope you can answer all of then then :3. Those are all very basic C++ interview questions.
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I know alot of C++ inside out
Why is a #define better than a const?
Explain stack unwinding.
What is difference between malloc/free and new/delete?
What is an anonymous namespace?
What is polymorphism?
What is template metaprogramming?
What is the mutable keyword used for?
What is a functor?
What is a dangling pointer?
What does RAII refer to?
What executes faster: ++i or i++, where i is an integer variable?
What is an example of when a destructor is NOT called at the end of scope?
Explain the difference between a struct and a class.
What is name mangling in C++?
Hope you can answer all of then then :3. Those are all very basic C++ interview questions.
I'm going to wrap this topic up as it's now being more directed at me and frankly I get enough programming questions at university. I can answer them but I NEVER said I would ever become an employee in a development team. Check the previous post. Never once have I. Right now I'm focusing on my university course and honing my c++ skills. Only and only when I feel confident that I can impress all I try to impress will I seek a job in the c++ department. Til then, I am following other aspects of game development. I may not even go into game development. I can't predict the future.
And on that note, I'm leaving the topic to prevent any further topic about me. If I wanted a topic about me, I'd have made one in the community section :P
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I think it's best not to boast about programming ability when you really don't understand what you're getting into or talking about... No offense.
It'd be like me boasting knowledge of C++ just because I tinkered with some code. I know !@#$% about C++, and I definitely wouldn't get cocky and say I do just because I've "played around in it a bit"
What Infini said is the bare-bones truth; GM teaches bad practices. It took years to "deprogram" myself from the !@#$% GM imposes on coding practices.
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There's no need to completely bash at GM-origin games being sold on Steam. If I wanted to make indie games as a hobby I'd probably go that route just because I don't want to learn C++. It's a hobby, not a career. If I want to make a few extra bucks on the side of my unrelated career, what's the problem?
Development is an elitist industry, I'll give Infini that. But when the elitist attitude carries over to society and bashes people using an "inferior software" just to make a few quick bucks, it becomes disgusting.
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I'm not bashing anything, I'm just being honest about its shortcomings, I even praised it for being a good way to entice people into game development.
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I'm not bashing anything, I'm just being honest about its shortcomings, I even praised it for being a good way to entice people into game development.
That wasn't directed at you so much as the industry itself. Example: Zelda Universe community, like KT mentioned in his original post.
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Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
I wouldn't pay for "crap", but I would pay for an enjoyable and well-made game, even if it was made with Game Maker.
To be honest, I've never seen a Game Maker game that I'd pay for. But, to be fair, most Game Maker games are made by people that aren't trying to sell. Money motivates. Therefore, it doesn't exactly seem logical to judge Game Maker on fan-made games, or even any freeware Game Maker game. In some cases, I've seen people trying to sell GM games on their own websites, and even those sucked, but it was obviously not Game Maker's fault, it was the developer's fault. The problems were in the graphics, the story, the mechanics, etc. It's clear that they didn't know enough about using Game Maker properly and efficiently.
And it's not just Game Maker games that can suck. I've seen my fair share of other crappy games that were programmed in a "real" programming language.
Point is: It's not completely about what you use to make the game. You've got to have the right skills and the knowledge to make a good game as well, or your game will fail no matter what language it's been coded with.
I really wouldn't get your hopes up though guys, steam is notoriously restrictive over what they allow into the store, your only real way as an indie is to already have an large established community around the game - as most indie games on steam have.
Send a message to the steamworks support team, and they will give you a brief overview of the TRC they require before releasing games on steam.
No one should ever hope to get anywhere if they don't work hard. I plan to work hard to get my game on Steam. I'm making my game with Game Maker to speed up development by a few years, since I know GML fairly well and it would take me a very long time to learn a more professional coding language.
That said, I don't plan on making use of Game Maker as most people do (as I also have in the past, even with the Spirit's Quest engine). I wouldn't expect to get far at all if I did. A good example of poor GM use is how common it is for people to place tons of solid collision objects within a room, when usually a simple 2d array of "solids" can take care of all those collisions. Cutting down the number of objects is a great first step in using GM efficiently. I go by the rule that "Less objects is more". Another thing most GM users overlook is proper loading and unloading of resources. The trick is to only store what you need in the game itself. If you must, just encrypt the external files (i.e. sprites, music, sounds) and load them and unload them at the proper times. This decreases the initial loading time immensely, and it should free up a bit of memory as well. The biggest flaw I've found in GM games, including mine, is that they are needlessly bloated. If GM is used right, I think it's very possible to make a professional feeling game that runs fast, looks good, feels good, is fun to play, and that will ultimately sell well.
As far as having a "large established community" around the game: I think that, if your game is good enough, that will happen mostly on it's own. Of course you need to get your game out there in the world by use of forums, YouTube, an official website, by submitting your game in to the IGF or by plugging in at any indie game expo you can, etc. If your game is good, your target audience will like it and they will support it, if not, they won't.
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^^ Agreed! Often times people dog on Game Maker because there are so many steaming piles of crap out there, that people try to pass off as a game, that are made with game maker. In reality Game Maker made it possible for these people, who would have never even been able to code an if statement in their lives, to make these piles of crap resembling games. Although Game Maker is not as efficient as other "Real" programming languages, in the hands of someone who has the patience, desire, and motivation necessary to make a good game, I see no reason why a masterpiece could not be made with game maker. Will it take time and a lot of motivation. Yes, but so does making a game in any other language. I think one of the greatest problems is that it is often times the people who do not have the patience required to make a really good game that gravitate to Game Maker. Even though many game maker user will never be able to make a good game, that is not necessarily a fault of game maker, but rather simply the fact that Game Maker has spent so many years marketing to the new and inexperienced game developers... Not that that is a bad thing... That was the original intent of Game Maker anyway wasn't it? Anyway... I am rambling now... Point being. If you have the motivation to make a good game, then I am all for it. I would be happy to buy your game (given it is the type of game I like to play) if it looks good, is not glitchy, and is fun.
Perhaps I am bias though because I am also in the process of trying to make a game with intent to sell... with Game Maker. It is an uphill battle, but I am sure it is possible!
edit: For instance... Project AM2R, which I am sure many of you have heard about, is a pretty dang good game made with Game Maker. Granted it will never make a buck for copyright reasons, but it goes to show that with a good developer... You can make a good game.
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I think I should stress though that Infini does make a good point. If you're trying to get into programming as a career, you should really move up from game maker.
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I think I should stress though that Infini does make a good point. If you're trying to get into programming as a career, you should really move up from game maker.
Yeah I can agree with that too... If the industry doesn't except Game Maker as a legitimate programming language than thats that. One would definitely have a better chance of getting a career in the industry if you use the tools they are used to using. Plane and simple.
That and as others have mentioned. Game maker does teach bad programming habits. Because it allows you to make so many programming mistakes and still work, many people just don't take the time to train themselves to do it right. I was fortunate to have taken a basic C++ course before ever using Game Maker so I had a feel for what code should look like.
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I think I should stress though that Infini does make a good point. If you're trying to get into programming as a career, you should really move up from game maker.
Yeah I can agree with that too... If the industry doesn't except Game Maker as a legitimate programming language than thats that. One would definitely have a better chance of getting a career in the industry if you use the tools they are used to using. Plane and simple.
Yes, I have to agree with Infini and the both of you. But I'm not looking for a job to work on software or games, I would just be looking to sell a game that is already completed. And I see GM as a tool that can give me what I need to accomplish that. Especially after reading this:
GameMaker 9
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We have a lot of other things happening with GameMaker in the next few weeks and months. These are all designed to EXTEND the appeal of GameMaker to more of the “Indie” developers. The Indie sector is the most exciting and fastest growing area for games and we want to make GameMaker a tool that can be seriously considered by professional and semi-professional developers. In doing this WE ARE NOT DESERTING OUR ROOTS, in fact quite the opposite. By extending the reach and capabilities of GameMaker we’re saying that you can start with a free and powerful game development tool, and if you’re good, you can then pursue the opportunity to publish your games on Itunes, Android Market, Ovi Store, Playstation Network, Steam, Web Portals, etc. We think this is EXCITING for the community! We use GameMaker for all of our games and so far we’ve had a No1 free download on iPad (Simply Solitaire HD), Top 30 Metacritic ratings (Mr Karoshi) and a Top 5 game on Android Market, “They Need to Be Fed”. Living proof that GameMaker can be used to create successful, professional games.
With the launch of GameMaker: Studio later this year you’ll be able to publish your own games on iTunes and Android Market. Studio will also make it easier for you to work with other people on your game. We’ll also include better tech to allow you to publish Windows and Mac versions of your games in places like Steam and Apple’s Mac App Store.
With GameMaker:HTML5, which will ship later this month you will be able to target the huge opportunity for HTML5 games.
We’ll continue to publish some of your games too and share the revenues with you. We’re working on making it easier for you to contact us for publishing opportunities, but I’ll write about that in the next couple of weeks ina separate post.
In summary, GameMaker is the centre of everything we do at YoYo. We’re not deserting our basic principles that GameMaker should start as a free program and we’re not intending to keep increasing the price of GameMaker:Standard. We’re trying to extend the appeal of GameMaker to professional developers with GameMaker: HTML5 and GameMaker:Studio editions which will both be out in 2011. In 2012 EVERY version of GameMaker will get a complete rewrite (and many new features.
Sandy
Btw, sort of off-topic: I broke their "They Need to Be Fed" game when I played it. Was running to the right and jumped and fell under a counter-clockwise rotating platform, then the character started drifting down-left at a 22.5ish degree angle while gaining momentum, and he zipped down off the bottom of the screen... he never came back. Poor guy, what a way to go.
Anyway, even though I'm not super impressed by their boasts at the end of that first paragraph, this information still shows that they are aiming to support indie developers, and even professional developers (but I'm going to take that as meaning "semi-professional").
Sure, I'm not going to get a job working for a video game company, but I don't aim to. If I did want that, then yes, I'd definitely need to move beyond GM. There's no way I'd get a job otherwise. Heck, it'd be doubtful that I could even get a job at YoYo Games! All I'm saying is that GM is proving to be a useful tool for an indie game developer like me. And it's definitely possible to get a GM game on to Steam.
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Would people really pay for crap made in game maker?
Hell i was surprised when that RPGMaker looking game call of chthululululu sold on steam.
I wouldn't pay for "crap", but I would pay for an enjoyable and well-made game, even if it was made with Game Maker.
To be honest, I've never seen a Game Maker game that I'd pay for. But, to be fair, most Game Maker games are made by people that aren't trying to sell. Money motivates. Therefore, it doesn't exactly seem logical to judge Game Maker on fan-made games, or even any freeware Game Maker game. In some cases, I've seen people trying to sell GM games on their own websites, and even those sucked, but it was obviously not Game Maker's fault, it was the developer's fault. The problems were in the graphics, the story, the mechanics, etc. It's clear that they didn't know enough about using Game Maker properly and efficiently.
And it's not just Game Maker games that can suck. I've seen my fair share of other crappy games that were programmed in a "real" programming language.
You played gauntlet seven sorrows and 4 heroes of light too i see.
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I'm reasonably positive nobody's dogged GM because of the slew of low quality games... That's not the reason professional grade programmers dislike GM at all.
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I'm reasonably positive nobody's dogged GM because of the slew of low quality games... That's not the reason professional grade programmers dislike GM at all.
Actually thats why i made fun of it.
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>:( Fish, stop implying you're a person >:(
(<3)