ZFGC
ZFGC.com => Updates => Topic started by: Infinitus on March 08, 2009, 04:29:09 pm
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Simple question really. There are a lot of members active here, but few posting. Presumably because you either don't like the way its run, or as some other people say "because your are scared we would ban you for posting anything off-topic".
Given that both I and 4Sword are now essentially the owners of this site, I think its a good time to ask what you want us to do with it.
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For starters, the "3 strike" warning system.. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but let's just say you have a member who just had a bad day. He accidentally gravedug a topic, double posted by accident, and perhaps he posted a link to an "rrr" site. Wouldn't that count as that member getting banned as those three things are breaking the rules? Nobody really explained to me how the system actually works so this is just my theory to how it works >__>.
The forum setup sucks, IMO. A little while ago I posted a topic relating to programming. I honestly had to sit there and think where to post it because there is absolutely no "LAWL PROGRAMMING" board. You guys have a board for art and music, why not programming? It's not being so "generalized" when you guys have boards for art and music, by the way.
*sigh*... I'm probably going to get yelled at for saying this, but I don't really like the staff that much either. I don't want to point fingers out, either. I have no idea how this could be fixed >__>.. and honestly, I don't think there is a way you can fully satisfy the whole entire board so this is why I am not really going to say anything about it.
Any chance for reviving the community project or something similar? A few people came here posting some interesting projects(I could honestly name a few off the top of my head) recently.. I think it would help bring the whole "fan game" influence back to this forum as that's what it was originally intended for. People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here. God only knows why >_<. Of course, you have your small group that's willing to post something lol.
Reason why I don't really post here is because there's not really much to talk about without someone being an idiot. It's like "lol I like this", and someone posts "ur post is wr0ng becuz i said so and my opininz r f@ctz lawl". Not everyone will agree with you.. just that here, people seem to have some sort of mental disease to just do it without even thinking :X.
That's all I can think of right now.
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For starters, the "3 strike" warning system.. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but let's just say you have a member who just had a bad day. He accidentally gravedug a topic, double posted by accident, and perhaps he posted a link to an "rrr" site. Wouldn't that count as that member getting banned as those three things are breaking the rules? Nobody really explained to me how the system actually works so this is just my theory to how it works >__>.
Accidents won't get you banned. The warning system gives the oppertunity of the moderator using leniancy, I doubt anyone would raise your warning level for the sake of an accidently double post or something similar.
The forum setup sucks, IMO. A little while ago I posted a topic relating to programming. I honestly had to sit there and think where to post it because there is absolutely no "LAWL PROGRAMMING" board. You guys have a board for art and music, why not programming? It's not being so "generalized" when you guys have boards for art and music, by the way.
I agree. I don't like the current board setup. Suggestions for a new layout are welcome. I don't really like how the "community" and "development" stuff has become so split up, I don't think they are mutually exclusive :S.
Any chance for reviving the community project or something similar? A few people came here posting some interesting projects(I could honestly name a few off the top of my head) recently.. I think it would help bring the whole "fan game" influence back to this forum as that's what it was originally intended for. People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here. God only knows why >_<. Of course, you have your small group that's willing to post something lol.
I would certainly like to restart a community project in one form or another, certainly not how it was setup before though. The question is if people will help.
People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here.
I think its because most of the "veterans" have moved onto things other than fan games :P.
Reason why I don't really post here is because there's not really much to talk about without someone being an idiot. It's like "lol I like this", and someone posts "ur post is wr0ng becuz i said so and my opininz r f@ctz lawl". Not everyone will agree with you.. just that here, people seem to have some sort of mental disease to just do it without even thinking :X.
:S. Not much I can do about how other people choose to act.
*sigh*... I'm probably going to get yelled at for saying this, but I don't really like the staff that much either. I don't want to point fingers out, either. I have no idea how this could be fixed >__>.. and honestly, I don't think there is a way you can fully satisfy the whole entire board so this is why I am not really going to say anything about it.
If you have grievences with specific staff members contact me via PM with your problems.
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For starters, the "3 strike" warning system.. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but let's just say you have a member who just had a bad day. He accidentally gravedug a topic, double posted by accident, and perhaps he posted a link to an "rrr" site. Wouldn't that count as that member getting banned as those three things are breaking the rules? Nobody really explained to me how the system actually works so this is just my theory to how it works >__>.
Accidents won't get you banned. The warning system gives the oppertunity of the moderator using leniancy, I doubt anyone would raise your warning level for the sake of an accidently double post or something similar.
Oh, alright then.. that clears things up for me.
The forum setup sucks, IMO. A little while ago I posted a topic relating to programming. I honestly had to sit there and think where to post it because there is absolutely no "LAWL PROGRAMMING" board. You guys have a board for art and music, why not programming? It's not being so "generalized" when you guys have boards for art and music, by the way.
I agree. I don't like the current board setup. Suggestions for a new layout are welcome. I don't really like how the "community" and "development" stuff has become so split up, I don't think they are mutually exclusive :S.
Guess I'll have to start thinking :S.
Any chance for reviving the community project or something similar? A few people came here posting some interesting projects(I could honestly name a few off the top of my head) recently.. I think it would help bring the whole "fan game" influence back to this forum as that's what it was originally intended for. People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here. God only knows why >_<. Of course, you have your small group that's willing to post something lol.
I would certainly like to restart a community project in one form or another, certainly not how it was setup before though. The question is if people will help.
Count me in as I'd like something to help me learn a bit more about programming.
People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here.
I think its because most of the "veterans" have moved onto things other than fan games :P.
XD Ahaha.. nice way to put it.
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Count me in as I'd like something to help me learn a bit more about programming.
You can include me in there as well =)
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Any chance for reviving the community project or something similar?
I have to agree. In fact, having all sorts of various community projects would be a good thing.
*jumps back into the shadows*
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*jumps back into the shadows*
*pulls you out of the shadows*
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Hey, I also agree with the thought of having a "LAWL PROGRAMMING" board (obviously maybe...not called LAWL PROGRAMMING). I'm in Software Engineering, and it would be interesting seeing how other people code and whatnot, and maybe also get pointers :).
I personally don't post as much as I used to because, as Basniak said, people tend to ruin topics by turning them into huge arguments. I don't really enjoy that. However, Infini, that's nothing you and the staff can really control, as you stated. People choose to act the way they do.
So that being said, the only thing I can really think of is being a Programming board or something. Maybe a sub of Tech Talk? :)
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The forum setup sucks, IMO. A little while ago I posted a topic relating to programming. I honestly had to sit there and think where to post it because there is absolutely no "LAWL PROGRAMMING" board. You guys have a board for art and music, why not programming? It's not being so "generalized" when you guys have boards for art and music, by the way.
There should totally be a "programming board".
Some people post programming topics at Tech Talk and others at Resources/Discussion, but IMO that should be separate from those two boards.
Any chance for reviving the community project or something similar? A few people came here posting some interesting projects(I could honestly name a few off the top of my head) recently.. I think it would help bring the whole "fan game" influence back to this forum as that's what it was originally intended for. People here tend to criticize every little thing about something, and the noobs are mainly the only people who are willing to post something here. God only knows why >_<. Of course, you have your small group that's willing to post something lol.
I've asked for "Multiple Community Projects" before, but we ended up remaining with only one project. I've already said many times that we should have public projects with many people working on, so that each one could help a little bit.
Also one more thing... could you create a "language" option on "Forum Profile Information"? (the same way we have a "location" option) We would remain speaking English on topics, of course, but it would be nice if we could see if some members don't speak English as their first language by looking at their profiles, for instance.
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I'll take some time to think of a new layout. But for the community project, I believe it's best if we keep to something we know we can do and not something beyond our motivation. Take my project for example. "Link's Awakening Remastered" was a title I knew I could get far in. Now if I had been by myself when Xfixium told me I did the math wrong in the conversions, I might have given up. I started that mapping topic on the 15th of February and it has over 20 pages now. Quite a few members are helping with the maps and I define that as community. So in a way, my project has transformed into a community project. Not only are the people in the mapping topic helping, but I also have others behind the scenes who are lending me their skills with sound, music, and programming.
The thing is, you don't have to start by putting your heads together. That leads to arguing, most likely. And stress at the idea of having to program something beyond your ability. I think a good community project is one that is started by one person who has an idea for some aspect of the game, then others come in and state their opinions and what they can do to help. Niek just jumped in when I began mapping, and now look where it's gotten us.
Again, I will look at the layout and figure something out. I want to help the forum as much as everyone else does.
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Suggested Forum Layout
ZFGC.com
Announcements - This forum's fine, no issues.
Feedback - This forum's fine, no issues.
Contests - This forum's fine, no issues.
Projects - This forum should have subforums for each community project in progress, as well as an organized archive for the scrapped ones. This eliminates the need for a discussion forum. Name should be changed to Community Projects.
Projects
Completed - This forum's fine, no issues.
Zelda WIP - This forum's fine, no issues.
Other WIP - This forum's fine, no issues.
Concepts - This forum's fine, no issues.
Scrapped - This forum's fine, no issues.
Development Dscussion - This forum is added for people who need programming assistance. (It's not a resource exactly so it desn't belong in Resources board)
Resources
Templates & Tutorials - This forum's fine, no issues. (Aside from not being used much)
Audio - This forum's fine, no issues.
Graphics - This forum's fine, no issues.
Discussion - Rename to Resource Discussion as not to confuse anyone.
Recruitment - This forum's fine, no issues.
Community - Renamed board because it's more of a community board then general discussion
Community Speak - This forum seems fine for now, no issues.
Gaming & Entertainment - This forum's fine, no issues.
Tech Talk - This forum should be for hardware, mostly.
Programming - This forum is added for those who want to discuss ther ways of programming but don't have a project or resource.
Topic Archive - This forum's fine, no issues.
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Community Project:
In specific regard to a community project, what I have been advocating is an open source, standardized Game Maker engine done with Minish Cap graphics. Actually this is only the half of it but it is the most important half all the same. There would also be another community project based on turning that engine into a game. The purpose of keeping them separate is that if the game fails, the engine can at least persist and it would be a useful tool for those wanting to create their own project.
And yes, I know that there will be some groaning that I am suggesting Game Maker, but I am thinking on a practical level. The ZFGCSDK was something that was taken on in an "advanced" language and that has had less than a perfect result. Programming in an advanced language is fine but it limits the amount of programmers here who can contribute, and using a community project as a teaching tool slows the project down. At least with Game Maker, we have a vast knowledge of how to do things already and more people could contribute.
Forum Layout:
ZFGC.com
- Announcements
- Site News
- Contests
- Projects
- Feedback
Projects
- Completed
- Zelda WIP
- Other WIP
- Concepts
- Scrapped
Resources
- Coding
- Graphics
- Audio
- Discussion
- Recruitment
Community
- General Discussion
- Gaming & Entertainment
- Tech Talk
- Topic Archive
User Ranks:
0 - Fairy
50 - Picori
100 - Deku
250 - Kokiri
500 - Goron
750 - Zora
1000 - Gerudo
1500 - Hylian
2000 - Twili
2500 - Oocca
3000 - Royal
3500 - Hero
4000 - Sage
5000 - Giant
6000 - Spirit
7000 - DeityAlso the images for them would be redone in Minish Cap style.
Staff Ranks:
Would also be done in Minish Cap style (these are done), however I have floated the idea of removing the color of staff members from the Who's Online list (the badge would still indicate that they are staff though).
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Hmm.. here's my take.
|-ZFGC.com
+Announcements
+Contests
+Archive
-Scrapped projects
|-Projects
+Completed
+Work In Progress
-Zelda WIP
-Misc. WIP
+Ideas/Concepts
+Community Project
-Ideas
-Art
-Sounds/Music
-Programming
+Resources
-Tutorials / Examples
-Audio
-Graphics
+Discussion
-Recruitment
|-General Discussion
+Community Speak
+Entertainment
-Gaming
-TV Shows / Movies
-Music
+Tech Talk
-Computer Builds
-Malware discussion
Heavy use of sub forums lol. I don't think everybody would like that, though.
Community Project:
In specific regard to a community project, what I have been advocating is an open source, standardized Game Maker engine done with Minish Cap graphics. Actually this is only the half of it but it is the most important half all the same. There would also be another community project based on turning that engine into a game. The purpose of keeping them separate is that if the game fails, the engine can at least persist and it would be a useful tool for those wanting to create their own project.
The use of GameMaker would be a good idea since its most used on this forums, but there are others who think otherwise. I think the only way to solve this is to have a poll. The problem with ZFGCSDK to my knowledge was that nobody did anything, which is why it failed. The only reason why I agree with you with the use of Minish Cap graphics is because ZFGC's custom art project failed and I don't think there's enough spriters that hang around here still who would be willing to start that project back up. Hmm......
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I'm in Software Engineering, and it would be interesting seeing how other people code and whatnot, and maybe also get pointers
Just curious but...was that a pun? xD
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@4Sword:
That idea for the community projects is very good. Though I think there could be more than two projects, and also not only Zelda community projects, but also Indie ones.
Also, the forum layout you suggested is the best so far, IMO.
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My suggestion is not directed at the forum, but rather the main site. If you ask me, you should eliminate all that DICKBUTT stuff on the main page. While DICKBUTT is good, the usage of it on the main page feels more of an annoyance and offers nothing more than it would without it.
There's also some more internal stuff I'd like to see (table-less design), but that's not important.
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My suggestion is not directed at the forum, but rather the main site. If you ask me, you should eliminate all that DICKBUTT stuff on the main page. While DICKBUTT is good, the usage of it on the main page feels more of an annoyance and offers nothing more than it would without it.
There's also some more internal stuff I'd like to see (table-less design), but that's not important.
Indeed. We've already had discussion about this in the admin boards. However I don't have time to deal with that at the moment, and its not a priority.
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My suggestion is not directed at the forum, but rather the main site. If you ask me, you should eliminate all that DICKBUTT stuff on the main page. While DICKBUTT is good, the usage of it on the main page feels more of an annoyance and offers nothing more than it would without it.
There's also some more internal stuff I'd like to see (table-less design), but that's not important.
Indeed. We've already had discussion about this in the admin boards. However I don't have time to deal with that at the moment, and its not a priority.
Couldn't you have some sort of web design competition or something >_<?
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My suggestion is not directed at the forum, but rather the main site. If you ask me, you should eliminate all that DICKBUTT stuff on the main page. While DICKBUTT is good, the usage of it on the main page feels more of an annoyance and offers nothing more than it would without it.
There's also some more internal stuff I'd like to see (table-less design), but that's not important.
Indeed. We've already had discussion about this in the admin boards. However I don't have time to deal with that at the moment, and its not a priority.
Couldn't you have some sort of web design competition or something >_<?
And give users access to the sites source code? Nope.
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If by sites source code you mean the HTML and Javascript people could get that anyway. If you mean the PHP then that's not really necessary. It's possible to have them design a layout and have them include place holder/garbage content.
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If by sites source code you mean the HTML and Javascript people could get that anyway.
Obviously. However I was refering to the PHP source code, its to much of a security risk to allow it to be publically accessible.
It's possible to have them design a layout and have them include place holder/garbage content.
Which would then require me to write all the programming backend, the design is the simple part :S. Again it comes back to the fact I don't have the time to do that at the moment, so unless someone with good php skills comes along and is willing to put in a lot of time, then the site is going to stay as it is for the moment.
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After thinking about it, I think that restarting the community project the way it was is a bad idea. Allow me to explain. THink about it, seeing as how ZFGCSDK failed, the community project failed, I don't think a third attempt will make it. The problem is, there's some vital thing missing. I remember when I first joined ZFGC back in May of 2005. The thing that attracted me here was its abundant resources of everything I could possibly think of in terms of Zelda. First thing I thought was "Cool! I can make my own Zelda game!". Well, without that list of resources.. how can something like that happen again? I'm not saying people should do this, but I think this is an idea. How about make a community project to re-compile a database of resources? ZFGC now doesn't have it, but back in the day it did. It's like taking a huge step backwards. Dunno.. I'd like to hear what other people think of my idea.
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Layout:
ZFGC.com
- Announcements
- News/Updates
- Feedback
- Contests
- Archive
Projects
- Community
- Completed
- Zelda WIP
- Other WIP
- Concepts
Resources
- Recruitment
- Graphics
- Design
- Coding
- Audio
General Discussion
- Community Speak
- Entertainment
- Tech Talk
I thought over the layout a bit more and this seemed to even make a little more sense. The News/Updates board would be the renamed currently hidden News board and it would be used for site news items as well as small updates to the forum which are not full-fledged announcements. The Projects board would be renamed Community and then moved to the Projects category. The Scrapped board would be moved from Projects to be a child of the Topic Archive (which would be renamed to just Archive).
In addition the Archive board will be moved from the General Discussion to the ZFGC.com category. Why? This keeps the Scrapped projects in the vicinity of the Projects category and there are some events that have been held in the Contests board which get moved to the Archive upon their completion.
In the Resources category, Templates & Tutorials will likely be put as a child of Coding. The reason that a programming board will be called Coding is that it helps fit things such as web development. The Discussion board would be renamed Design as the only thing it would really handle now that there is a coding board would be topics pertaining to how to do something, how to do it, et al in regard to game design.
Community Project:
This is why my idea about having it as a two-part system makes sense, is practical, and will work. By having an open-source, standardized Game Maker engine people who want to create their own project would have a base on which to start. This base, mind you, would be made and refined from the vast wealth of knowledge that has existed here over the course of years. Adding to this engine would also be easy to do. For example, if I programmed my own Minish Cap enemy, I could submit it to the project and if it was good enough it could be standardized so that the code structure was the same as what was in the engine already.
This makes it significantly easier to help the Community Project. It also takes away a lot of the plot/level design aspects out of the main bulk of the work. Furthermore, there could be contests held to add to the engine which not only would aid the engine's development, but would give back to the community an active contest focused towards development.
As for a list of resources, that is why I had an opening in the site staff for someone willing to rip graphics and maintain a list in the Graphics board of those rips. This also helps my version of the community project in that those working on it would have images to work with. Windy's graphics ripping tool allows one to have high quality rips which I feel if done right can be more useful to developers.
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On the graphics...what format did you want them in? Do you want them all as sprites or files in Game Maker? Or all in an organized folder? Do you want a topic for the sprite archive?
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It is going to be in a format that is useful to developers; mostly optimized, animated GIF files with a spritesheet accompanying them if the ripper feels like it. The sprites would only be put in a Game Maker file if there was some object made in Game Maker that utilized them. As for getting the sprites, it is not the same as going to graphics sites and copying their resources or going to a lot of graphics sites and gathering a group of resources. The sprite list that will go in the Graphics section would be links to quality rips that are hosted on the site.
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By quality rips you mean we should rip graphics again? I know Xfixium ripped some quality stuff like tilesets and other sprites (http://www.pyxosoft.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=f99e6c0c144cc4c1331697f075f272c6&topic=9.0) which are all complete. We could reorganize them and put them into the Graphics section I guess.
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I can submit my collected sprites and data over the last three years after I reorganize them and make sure everything is properly named and ripped. I suppose it would be useful to know which file format everything should be in. GIF of course for animations, but is GIF better than PNG when it comes to static sprites and tiles?
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By quality rips you mean we should rip graphics again? I know Xfixium ripped some quality stuff like tilesets and other sprites which are all complete. We could reorganize them and put them into the Graphics section I guess.
Certain images Xfixium ripped had a key flaw. This being that some of the tiles are not layered as they are in the game - e.g. the outside of a house being layered as roof and then building.
I guess I overlooked tiles a bit though, I was mostly referring to sprites found in the game for things such as Moblins, Darknuts, Octoroks, Tektites, NPCs, Link, etc. A lot of people who try to make a game cannot get these to animate correctly and I felt that if the animations were correct and even pre-assembled, that this wouldn't be so much of a concern.
I can submit my collected sprites and data over the last three years after I reorganize them and make sure everything is properly named and ripped. I suppose it would be useful to know which file format everything should be in. GIF of course for animations, but is GIF better than PNG when it comes to static sprites and tiles?
If all you did was collect them from other places, as I said, that's not what this is the same as. If I could find the same sheet on the Spriter's Resource, I would rather just go to the Spriter's Resource. If you have animations that you think are as correct as they god well can be, you put them all into a ZIP file and then upload them to the site that this forum has. If it is fine it will be added to a list that will be in the Graphics section.
If it is just a static image, then the best is probably PNG format. The only thing that will be linked to on the resource list topic in the Graphics board will be that which is animated or optimized, non-repetitive tilesheets that have that layering concept like I mentioned above (unless they were from an older game that didn't have layering - the list though from the outset will focus on Minish Cap)
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A lot of the sheets I have are from here, too. And a lot of them aren't here anymore, and nobody still has them. (Old OoT2D stuff for example) I'm not just going to give the sheets, that would be useless since most can be found on TSR or some ther place. I'm going to rip from them and animate as best as I can.
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I know I'm just a newbie around here, but I have some remarks, although I might say stupid things.
1) I agree on a special board pertaining programming.
2) I really like the Community Project idea and I don't know what this ZFGCSDK is. The current one in the forum in the forum I think it was something called 'King of Thieves' or something, I really liked the concept of the bits I read. I don't know if this project is still running or it is dead, but what I do know is that there are way to many topics with way to many replies for a newbie to jump in. This brings me to the biggest problems of Community Projects. The information is scattered and mostly unaccessible. You need something like a Wiki page. Something where a newbie who would like to learn and contribute could quickly get up to date on the latest development in the project. This wiki can contain a GDD, a TODO list, links to the topics in the forums that are currently discussing the parts. Maybe a kind of resource management system for that project. Although making one or two topics sticky because they contain info about the project, it still is not the best to do, because you often loose sight of what is in the project and what isn't due to the many replies. But the disadvantage is that this most likely requires more than just a new layout or forum update.
The second problem with community projects is that there is always someone (or a few) needed who is willing to take the lead and probably the most dedication to the project. If there is no sailor at the helm of a ship, the ship will strand and get nowhere. The same goes for projects. This person will also be the one that makes the final decisions and prevent endless discussions.
3) A ZFGC engine in Gamemaker sounds a nice idea, because it seems to be the most used and people would be able to quickly make their own stories. It seems to tie in with this ZFGCSDK, which I have no knowledge about. I don't know if it is the best to stick with just Game Maker, because some people might want to learn somethings else as well. The same goes for the MC graphics as ZFGC style. I know the website has a resources section, but to me it seems a bit unorganized and cluttered. If ZFGC had tile and spritesets for FS/MC, ALttP and the GB(C) games, people could work together more easier and won't have as much color issues and people could include their custom made graphics in those styles as well. You could also make a section for textures and 3D models and custom made styles. This is an advice, but putting everything in one topic and then end up with a topic with over 20 pages. This is not apealling to go through.
This are my 10 cents of thoughts. I am a newbie and may have said something stupid. My apologies for that.
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I made a topic in the projects board for community project discussion. That leaves more room in this topic for forum layouts and other site things. Basically the majority of this topic was discussion about the community project and I thought it would be a good idea to make a new topic for it so this one didn't get sidetracked.
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I made a topic in the projects board for community project discussion. That leaves more room in this topic for forum layouts and other site things. Basically the majority of this topic was discussion about the community project and I thought it would be a good idea to make a new topic for it so this one didn't get sidetracked.
hmm, the talk about the community project should be kept here, since it needs to be argued if it will get deleted(affecting the forum layout), or if it will get revived, and this thread is about anything that should be changed not only layout wise or community project related.
Well I find it hard to trust the staff >_>, I haven't seen many mods active lately except for 4swords but he is a mod. Hmm I would also like more contest related to gamemaking, as In form teams of 4 and you have to create a game that only use the mouse, or similar activities to get more completed games :P. hmm Imo we should move from zelda fan games and more into indie, I know this has already been asked months ago, but I just don't see to much of zelda in this forum, now a days this forum is all about people talking about their life or their indie related projects.
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Well from the suggested forum layouts we've seen here, I don't think it will be moved any time soon.
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The current community project that you are referring to is likely going to be ended or demoted to a team project; it's activity and forum interest aren't that beneficial to the forum. But yeah, if you want to discuss the community project in the other topic, it is fine. Discussion might get some people interested and this topic might be cluttered for such a big idea.
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Imo we should move from zelda fan games and more into indie, I know this has already been asked months ago, but I just don't see to much of zelda in this forum, now a days this forum is all about people talking about their life or their indie related projects.
That already happened before, in the form of Gamers Advanced. It didn't work out back then. I don't think it should change.
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Needs moar Porkchop and Swoftu IMO
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Needs moar Porkchop and Swoftu IMO
What happened to leaving?
On-topic:
Whatever happened to those themes? I am getting sick of midnight and the kokiri (no offense). I can develop themes if you guys need someone.
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1. Greater support for the community project, including front page articles, incentive for members, and interviews with the team. Focus not only on the literal but also their philosophy of game design and more abstract subjects to elevate development above merely "making an engine" or "spriting some stuff."
2. Doing the same for individual projects.
3. An overall change in staff attitude to be more relaxed and not let people get to them so easily. Half of the problems we have on the forum are because of people overreacting, both on staff and member sides.
4. Greater chatroom involvement. Everyone always says #zfgc and ZFGC are two different universes (and they are); however, I think we need to encourage chatroom members to be less insular so that our forum base can better integrate with them. This ties in heavily with number three: people need to chill out.
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In regard to more news articles:
1) there are periods of time when there is not much happening in development to talk about
2) it is not something that I can do myself as I do enough with the news as it is
3) users have not commented and used the news that often as it is
Getting the Project of the Month together was difficult as it is because I had to set it up the concept and do all the work for the last two news items for it. Arguably, I had put up the first one trying to get as much help from the site staff as possible, but the second one made not as much. But really putting all of that and putting the ZFGC Weekly together each week was a lot considering that I had also been working on moderation and then administrative tasks.
I have seen many ideas over what to do with news items (even yesterday), but it comes down to not what is wanted, but who will do what.
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So...what's the summary of changes so far? What's going to happen?
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I say more discussion boards. Face it: there's people who don't program here. And some of them only come because they've come 3+ years ago. DJvenom's logic of "You shouldn't come here if you don't program" is horribly flawed, and since he's not really in power anymore there can be change from that. I don't have to remind you that this is just my opinion though, right?
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What more discussion forums could we possibly need? Although the staff could probably be less harsh on it. More from me on that later.
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Ok, here is a comparison of things from this site, and from the old ZFGC site.
You agree not to do any of the following while on our forum:
* Flaming - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious and/or personal attacks on any third party[1].
* Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users by posting 'flame bait' type messages are not welcome.
* Unsuitable Content - Distribution[2] of illegal, pornographic, copyrighted material or any other offensive material is strictly prohibited.
* Impersonation of any user, forum moderator, administrator or third party is strictly prohibited.
* Posting any content that contains a virus, Trojan or any other malicious content, even if done unknowingly, may result in a ban.
* Posting any unsolicited messages: Advertisements, Chain Letters or similar content is prohibited and will result in an immediate ban.
* Excessively use phrases, fads, memes or words will result in punishment, depending on use.
* Messages containing "Spoilers" will result in punishment. Please use the "Spoiler" tag.
* "Rent-a-Modding" is not allowed. Please use the "Report Post" function to notify moderators of a post or message.
* Use common sense. If you think you might be breaking the rules, you probably are. Remember to ask if you are unsure.
Other statements and notes:
* ZFGC may contain mature content at times, this board is not recommended for users under the age of 14.
* Debating with moderators, publicly, will be classified as a public disturbance and drama creation, which will fall under either flaming or trolling, in some instances both. Please listen to moderators, if you have an issue consult another moderator or administrator.
* Individual categories and boards on ZFGC may contain more defined rules for the specific area, please read those before posting in those areas.
* [1] A third party is defined as: a forum user, an affiliate, a company, or any other entity public or private.
* [2] Distribution is defined as: Using ZFGC as a medium of communication to, or actually using site resources (bandwidth) to distribute illegal materials.
* ZFGC staff retains the rights to exclusively determine what violates any of the above rules. Also, ZFGC administration retains the rights to exclusively decide who may access the forums.
- - 1. Don't flame other members. This includes racism, sexism, or any other hateful 'ism you can think of.
- - 2. Respect and listen to the staff. They know what they're doing, if not, contact me.
- - 3. Don't spam unless its in off-topic, and even then keep it to a minimum. No "aksfjasgojagijg" or anything.
- - 4. Don't double post unless you think you must, and try not to make one-word replies.
- - 5. Excessive swearing is not tolerated, and cussing solely to offend someone is not tolerated.
- - 6. No de-railing a topic and going way off topic with it. For ex, if the topic is about someone showing off their custom midi's, don't start talking about ice cream...
- - 6. Keep your advertisments in the recruiting board.
Doing any of the following will result in a warn-level increase, deletion of post, and possibly a ban, depending on how bad the situation is.
The latter is from the old site. Tell me, which is shorter and more simplistic? Again, I'm for both parties here. The ones who have no interest in programming and just want to be part of the community, and those who are all for the game stuff. Perhaps a revision of the rules would make the staff seem less neo-nazi and make the community more willing to post content without fear of breaking a rule.
Now, take a look at this: http://z15.invisionfree.com/ZFGC_X/index.php?act=idx
Take special notice of the forum layout. Do you see much more specifc forums that accurately showed where to post what? Yeah, now look at this site's layout and tell me which one is better.
~Jeod's thought of the day
I'll go even further to "simplify" the site. I've noticed on ZFGC-X that the WIP forum only had two pages of games on it, but all of them had content to show and were actually getting updated. I have also taken notice to the specific "Programming and Coding Help" forum within the Development section. Lots of topics there, too. And lots of replies.
Another thing I noticed was a specific "Off-Topic" forum in the Community section. Granted, it had the most topics and posts in the entire site, but everyone had fun in there. It was kickback and relax.
Also, I noticed more specific forums established for Indie games. I can't see much of that here except the lone "Other WIP" forum.
Oh, you know what else I noticed? Most of the games being made at that site were being made by at least two of the members together. The games were mini-community projects, and members helped eachother.
~Jeod's second thought of the day
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Jeod, please just edit your post next time if you have something new to you original thoughts to add and only a small amount of time has gone by - the warning system for some reason doesn't currently work correctly in the Announcements board.
As for the rules, some of the rule differences here are caused by just the atmosphere of this place as compared to the other one having a different atmosphere and how certain users here will sometimes do things and then point to the rules saying that it is alright to do as what they did was not defined. The rules here can be made simpler - the administration has changed a bit so the rules may be emended in the future. Some of the rules in boards such as Community Speak also will be rewritten as they are no longer relevant to the current state of the forum.
As for the board layout, there are changes coming that will be for team and community projects. As for having Indie be more expanded, having more boards taking up vertical space while getting hardly any active posting in them is something that is to be avoided.
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Hmm, people tend to want power in this forum, I find no way to stop it.. hmmmmm well, I have a question to ask the staff.. you have 3 pages full of what changes do the users want.. IMO it is time to make a topic about "What Changes the Staff will apply?" so we can argue the ones that got accepted and passed this preliminary round.
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Hmm, people tend to want power in this forum, I find no way to stop it.. hmmmmm well, I have a question to ask the staff.. you have 3 pages full of what changes do the users want.. IMO it is time to make a topic about "What Changes the Staff will apply?" so we can argue the ones that got accepted and passed this preliminary round.
Will do in a bit. Going to leave this topic open for a few more days so the less active members can post first.
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How about until March 18? That's when the poll ends on the community project topic.
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How about until March 18? That's when the poll ends on the community project topic.
hmm no offense but I think that Infini already took that decision with help of the other staff >_>.
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Really, really late (and probably old), but what I think this forum needs is a fresh batch of members. So advertising, cross-site promotions with some affiliates -- just get ZFGC out there. It feels so closed in right now, imo.
Sorry again if that's been discusses before, but, yeah, there's my opinion.
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Really, really late (and probably old), but what I think this forum needs is a fresh batch of members. So advertising, cross-site promotions with some affiliates -- just get ZFGC out there. It feels so closed in right now, imo.
Sorry again if that's been discusses before, but, yeah, there's my opinion.
I have a feeling that your post pretty much summarizes the staff's intention, so I believe "that would be the name of the game" in the near future. Of course, I am only assuming ;-).
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Really, really late (and probably old), but what I think this forum needs is a fresh batch of members. So advertising, cross-site promotions with some affiliates -- just get ZFGC out there. It feels so closed in right now, imo.
Sorry again if that's been discusses before, but, yeah, there's my opinion.
I have a feeling that your post pretty much summarizes the staff's intention, so I believe "that would be the name of the game" in the near future. Of course, I am only assuming ;-).
It's something that could be done right now. I'm sure the admins are busy with stuff but I'm sure staff members could go to different forums to advertise unless those forums don't allow advertising your site through topics so there's always the signature route.
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So basically;
Either;
- Reorganise the forum, add some community boards.
- Produce more content about general development.
- Setup the community project.
- Distill all rules down to pretty much "Don't post illegal content, don't post subject-less topics or meaningless replies".
- Unban a lot of the users who were banned for frivilous rules (eg. discuss rule)
- Redesign a lot of the site, remove DICKBUTT, build up resource database, have more emphesis on game design.
Or;
- Kill the forum, recreate from scratch.
I know its not exactly the most comprehensive list, but its hard to distill 4 pages of "wall-o-text" posts into bulletpoints.
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I kinda feel like maybe just reorganizing/redesigning/revamping the forum would be in favor, especially after unbanning certain users.
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Try the first, do the second one if the first fails. If both fail, well poop.
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I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe the whole forum should be redone. Cleaning everything up would be best and some stuff would be easier to keep track of. That's just me.
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I actually have a compelling idea that goes with the second option. If we're going to start anew with a new name and everything, then our community project would make more sense if it were not about Zelda, right? With the amount of discussion we've all had with eachother over the last few years of this forum's existence, is it completely unreasonable to make the community project a game based off Phoenix Wright?
Think about it. The gameplay is the easiest thing to design, and the storyline is the biggest part. Each case is carefully built so everything fits in perfectly, and the amount of difficulty to actually get through the game requires deep thought. I think with the combined logic of our minds, we can make some pretty powerful cases.
It all meshes together, too. Stemming from the second option, we start over. New name, new focus. Then we want advertising, and what better way to advertise than with the substance we can give by making a game based off something that no fan games have been based off of yet?
Zelda has been done over and over. Phoenix Wright is a unique style, both in gameplay and story. It works well with the option, but only with the second option.
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No more "redoing" or "redesigning".
Just trash it and start new.
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http://www.court-records.net/casemakers.shtml
My bad, seems there's quite a few fan dubs out there. =(
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meh wwe can still make a Phoenix wright game, but with kids lol like.. someone stole the barbie from you neighbor and you need to explore :P.
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Well, why does it have to be a specific game? Also,...why Phoenix Wright? Hehe.
I guess if we make it a general fangaming forum with no Zelda title, it would be too general. Well, either way I'll follow.
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
I agree on the boards. We have 62 a the moment :S. Kinda excessive.
However not sure about spam, we've tried it many different times in different ways, always splits the community. :S. Happy to have some off topic boards with lax rules though.
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Go to C:\
Copy "SMF2"
Go to ftp://zfgc.com
CTRL + A
DEL
ENTER
CTRL + V
Thats the best option
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Go to C:\
Copy "SMF2"
Go to ftp://zfgc.com
CTRL + A
DEL
ENTER
CTRL + V
Thats the best option
Updating software won't do jack to help the community :S.
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Go to C:\
Copy "SMF2"
Go to ftp://zfgc.com
CTRL + A
DEL
ENTER
CTRL + V
Thats the best option
Updating software won't do jack to help the community :S.
No, I meant to trash it then start over.
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I am working on an even more simplified version of the board layout which would be dependent on wiping the forum. But really, if the forum is going to exist and while this is counter-intuitive, users must be able to still venture into the real world and yet find this place worth checking in on. Spending a lot of time here is kind of pathetic, and I should know, I am more active than all of you are.
In terms of forum philosophy though, a reason that most projects have failed is that they are attempted by individuals. In fact, throughout our forum history, the board set up has mostly been setup for individuals creating projects. While I still think that individuals can make good things on their own, it makes sense to have a board setup that promotes team and community projects.
There would be something like this, for example:
ZFGC.com
- Updates
- Feedback
- Contests
Projects
- Omni-User
- Multi-User
- Single-User
The single-user projects would be those done by a single person. If you wanted help with your project, you would either post in your topic asking for others to help you out or you would contact a member of the site staff here to put a topic up in the updates section to indicate that you are recruiting. If your project evolved such that you had a team, you would have to meet certain requirements and then your project could be moved up to the multi-user board.
The multi-user projects would be team projects. The main board for that would be used to update users on the status of your project as well as to recruit users to your project. Because there would likely be less team projects than single-user projects, these projects would be more visible - the system itself promotes projects with more than one person working on them. These projects would have a private board for the development of their project as well.
The omni-user projects would be the community projects. Since there would be even fewer of these, the main board would serve for recruiting to the community projects, for updates, etc. The child boards would be each individual project, and those could also have children for each section of development. All the boards would be public.
That all may seem a little radical, but I think that it is the best possible layout. Completed projects would be linked to in a stickied topic in each section. Scrapped projects would just sit in the board. Ideas would go in the Single-User projects section and would be indicated via a tagging system.
As you can also see with the above layout, the Announcements and site news would all be in the same place (Infini's idea not mine, but it is a good one that would work well). Also, if we were using SMF 2.0, the moderation thing on that would allow better moderation in terms of watched users and handling warnings. This would mean that the moderation in itself could be more efficient and that there would not need to be a lot of moderators.
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Wiping the forum could help in the long run. Sure, users would lose all their posts and stuff but if it would help improve the forum then that is a must. Some of those forums are sub-forums in the Topic Archive forum too.
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
I agree on the boards. We have 62 a the moment :S. Kinda excessive.
lol I only counted 37 I could see. How many others are you hiding from us :D?
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
I agree on the boards. We have 62 a the moment :S. Kinda excessive.
lol I only counted 37 I could see. How many others are you hiding from us :D?
LRN 2 READ STATS PAGE :D
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So...what are the methods of wiping? Will we be able to keep currently useful topics such as the LttP Koholint map topic and the OoT2D (ahmio) topic?
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So...what are the methods of wiping? Will we be able to keep currently useful topics such as the LttP Koholint map topic and the OoT2D (ahmio) topic?
Wiping would delete everything from the forum. Topics, posts, users, etc. If the forum were to get wiped, it would be a good idea to save anything useful you might need.
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It's a shame there isn't a "bin" that you can place things into while everything else is being smited.
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It is not as if the wipe is going to happen without warning or immediately soon. This is to say that there will be time for those to gather what they need - if the forum were to start over, the current one with all the information would just be available to the administration and possibly some site staffers so that information could be retrieved if needed. It would be "weird" to just delete all the boards on this one and remove everyone from the userlist and then restart on this one because the board and new user numbers would all be high.
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
I agree on the boards. We have 62 a the moment :S. Kinda excessive.
lol I only counted 37 I could see. How many others are you hiding from us :D?
LRN 2 READ STATS PAGE :D
Well now I know at least one of the hidden boards :P the 5th board of the top 10.
Funny thing is I actually know what it is, but can't see anything in it. I mean it actually shows as a subboard with the description but I can't go into it :D
and I found 12 of the other boards :P
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ZFGC.com
+ Talking
+ Game Making
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ZFGC.com
+ Talking
+ Game Making
^this exactly, actually.
FOR THOSE WHO REMEMBER THAT THERE THREAD THAT WAS LiKE 10 PAGES OF BAW-
"Group 2 and 3 active, group 1 and 4 BYE BYE"
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ZFGC.com
+ Talking
+ Game Making
^this exactly, actually.
FOR THOSE WHO REMEMBER THAT THERE THREAD THAT WAS LiKE 10 PAGES OF BAW-
"Group 2 and 3 active, group 1 and 4 BYE BYE"
can you explain the groups? it is so !@#$% odd that you are talking like that D:
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<_<;; Just go to the CA thread in CS, as told by the !@#$% and vagina :P
EDIT: I'll just make it easier on you-
Wall of text (x 2 pages)/10
Summary of necessary changes: Reboot from scratch. Lighten up on rules that are keeping people who don't understand what rules are from posting on a board that they don't contribute anything other than stupid memes and unfunny threads that only their clique find funny to. Advertise. And help the place grow instead of treating it like a GigaPet at 98 hunger where you keep feeding it until it dies the next day. If you remember those things had a two week lifespan if you were doing it right. ZFGC's not.
I fixed it for you.
Anyway, I think you're all trying to fix something that can't be fixed.
CA very plainly pointed out that you're all apathetic. You'll make a short effort, and it'll fail once again :P
Let me explain why-
Group 1: (who will remain nameless) who don't contribute to what this forum is truly about, but are still good members. They just have issues getting their point across in a mature manor.
Group 2: who want to see more development stuff.
Group 3: people who want more general discussion.
Group 4: people who will complain no matter what and only cause trouble and controversy (also group 1, for the most part)
Now; try to please them all.
We've ran through each possible scenario. Let me list that one out for everyone-
1) We closed the forum down for a month, added a spam board, and made it more lenient.
RESULT! - Forum went to !@#$%. Memes everywhere. But hey, we wanted to make it a place where even Sw---- could post and not get shunned. MY BAD FOR THINKING THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA. It failed miserably. People complained that the forum was nothing but spam. You know what? It was. But hey, it pleased Group 1, but pissed off 2 and 3. Group 4 doesn't matter because they don't belong here.
2) We made the boards a bit stricter, changed mods around. Didn't focus on development however.
RESULT! - Group 1 was pissed that they couldn't go on a spamfest! Group 2 was pissed because there wasnt enough development! Group 3 was pleased because they could talk about !@#$% and not worry about development.
3) We decided, hey! This isn't working. BYE! *Infini takes over (bless his soul), and members of Group 1 and 4 made their way into staff, because they're crafty like that.
RESULT! - ... lol. This was recent enough. The forum went to HELL. Infini wasn't active enough (he's a busy guy), so Group 1 and 4 got to pretty much have the run of the mill.
Finally, 4) Forum owner stepped in, told Vash and myself that things needed to change. We came back in, reverted the forum BACK to the way it was in the beginning (IE: Development board.), pruned the boards, brought in new mods, etc.
RESULT! - GROUP 1 AND 4 TRY TO START A REBELLION! And get this, those two groups are so good at trolling by this time, that they manage to stir individual members of the forum by coaxing them to their side via private chats and little subtle messages. This part is fine; however- *stares at this thread*... *stares at the various threads like this*...
My point? If you want to solve this once and for all, you need to REMOVE one of those groups (well, Group 4 should be removed regardless). You can't please everybody, and you need to make sacrifices. The sacrifice IN MY OPINION should be group 1. Why? Because Group 1 isn't here for the reasons this forum was made in the first place, even if they were here from the beginning. They don't do ANYTHING they did in the beginning, and they only help make this forum trash. Group 2 develops the games, Group 3 plays and reviews the games. That's how it was in the beginning. Thats how it should be now.
So hey, lets restart this pattern again shall we? Lets let Group 1 and 4's voice be heard (again) (BTW CA isn't part of either of those groups; she's one of the good ones here), make the board more lenient (again), and watch it fall apart, because we gave in to what they want, as apposed to what this forum is about.
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Hey guys ZFGC's problem is
LOL APATHY! APATHY AND SARAH PALIN.
No seriously, it is. I have proof. Just go ask Sarah Palin and she'll tell you >__>
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Hey guys ZFGC's problem is
LOL APATHY! APATHY AND SARAH PALIN.
No seriously, it is. I have proof. Just go ask Sarah Palin and she'll tell you >__>
Actually that was nowhere near the point of my post (to state people are apathetic); it was to tell them that this cycle will not work going on the path it's going. Either way, it's not to spark another discussion on it; it was for Kren's reference (and whoever else was confused on the "group 1" "group 4" talk.
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^^ Oh. That's old news, etc. As told by the hairy balls and e-penis, it's apathy.
ZFGC.com
+ Talking
+ Game Making
+Crying about apathy and stuff
^This 20000x
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<_<;; Just go to the CA thread in CS, as told by the !@#$% and vagina :P
Lol I love !@#$% and vaginas ;P btw! don't you think that those groups are like hmm virus? or sickness? they will keep appearing no matter what ;p.
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less forums overall- goddamn look at this mess
and maybe a spam forum that works the way mfgg's ccc does- promotes activity and rule obeying while giving the members a little fun (no bans for 2 months and 200+ posts gives you access, getting banned means 2 months with no access, etc.)
I agree on the boards. We have 62 a the moment :S. Kinda excessive.
However not sure about spam, we've tried it many different times in different ways, always splits the community. :S. Happy to have some off topic boards with lax rules though.
well I don't exactly mean spam. I mean stupid meme spurting and afsafsafsafdfasdf posts over and over aren't cool. but a much more laid back forum would be nice- I mean overall and a specific forum with relaxed rules.
I am glad that you guys are thinking about shortening the forum list though, ZFGC has always had way too many forums to distribute its activity properly.
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There are many reasons why I am not an active member of this community anymore, but most of which has nothing to do with the community itself.
I guess I originally joined this community because I, like many others, was a huge fan of TRM's Ocarina of Time 2d project. That was what initially motivated me to join this community, yet oddly enough I became more active when ZFGC became more focused on individual projects as opposed to one single game. Why? Honestly, I can't say for sure. There were many established fan communities that I could have just as easily joined.
But I can answer the reason why I became an inactive member of this community.
The primary reason I lost interest in this forum was my loss of interest in the Zelda series, and gaming in general. This community has always been big on fan game development, especially when it comes to the Zelda series. I enjoyed being an active member here, but I grew tired of how projects here never got finished. The community has always had some form of general discussion forums, but their activity seems to come and go. Obviously this community is going to remain focused on the Legend of Zelda, so what I would like to see is a place to discuss the series, as opposed to the fan games. The only problem with this idea is that it seems to be difficult to keep general discussions about a series on topic.
Another factor in my declined activity is keeping up with my education and job. I find that I rarely have free time to browse online websites and forums anymore; even now I should be finishing some homework. Again, this is an issue that the community, nor the administrators, can do anything about. It's just one of those things we all must do.
I guess a third reason why I'm not very active here anymore is because I feel detached from the community. I doubt anybody here remembers me from the good ol' days of ZFGC, aside from a select few who aren't active members of the forums.
I guess the important question, however, is what would make me a more active member of this community. And to that, I don't have an answer. Most of the reasons why I am not an active member have nothing to do with the community or the members, but rather my loss of interest in Fan Games and Zelda development; the core of this community.
I'm not sure if I will ever be an active member of this community again. But I do know one thing; this was amongst my favorite communities back in the day, and I'll never forget it. I hope that no matter what happens, this community remains true to the Zelda series. I would hate to see one of my favorite communities of old change because they feel a more general community would attract more members. It never was about the number of members. It was about the dedication our community had to the Zelda series.
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*nods in agreement* I wasn't here in the old days, sad to say. I might have enjoyed the place much more. A few years back I had created a Zelda discussion forum called Dungeon Investigation Squad, with the intent being to rip apart all the existing Zelda games from story to gameplay elements, just to find out any secrets that were untold. We did find some interesting things, truth me told, but over the span of two years the members lost interest.
ZFGC reminds me of my old DIS. Some faithful members and I tried three times to resurrect it, but knowledge was already too advanced. Zelda had run out of fresh juice, and I suppose you could sum it down to a shriveled, useless lemon. We tried moving to Mario, Sonic, Metroid, and all the other popular games. None were as mysterious as Zelda, though.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there really isn't much left to do with the Zelda series besides make our own legends and stories. Sure, we could start hecking ROMs and speculate theories, but most of that is already done. Sqeezing a lemon with no juice will hardly make any lemonade.