Hello Guest, please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: The problem with modern RPGs  (Read 1457 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
The problem with modern RPGs
« on: June 24, 2008, 11:34:35 am »
  • (y)(;>.<;)(y)
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3293
Stats don't matter any more. Long ago, RPGs were about your character. You had to raise your stats to get good enough to be able to kill most enemies. Of course, with clever skill, you could take down much stronger enemies, but you could also raise your level to 100 and just blast through everything in a fury of god-like might.

Now, RPGs have become a lot more twitch based. Stats, they've stopped mattering. Instead of dodging attacks based on your skills in blocking, agility etc, you know have to manually time the attacks and roll out of the way. But, "Surely," you say, "that sounds like an improvement.", and I'd agree with you, if we were talking about adventure games, fps games or fighting games. But, we aren't. We are talking about Role-Playing games, games which are supposed to be about the character, not the player. The player gets better at the game, obviously, and some skill is required to play, but a limit is needed. I shouldn't be able to start a new game and defeat gods and demons just because, despite being a weakling stat-wise, I can time things well and roll about.

What can be done to stop this FPS-isation of RPGs? Well, first of all: Stop !@#$% making enemies level with the player. This is the most stupid idea ever. It just does NOT work. One of the best feelings in gaming is that, after entering a tomb and finding it filled with enemies too powerful for you to defeat, you bare escape with your life, only to return later at a much higher level and rape everyone inside. Revenge is a dish best served with a high level spell and perfect d20!

Bethesda forgot this with Oblivion, but after hearing them talking about Fallout 3, my hopes are up they remembered this...please Bethesda, do not !@#$% on our memories of Fallout, please! And all you other RPG developers, learn from the old games, don't !@#$% on their graves! We like our stats, we like that our characters skills, not our own, decide our strength. Yes, sure, we get this still in MMORPGs, but some of us can't stand them and like the single-player experience. These people still make up a large part of the gaming market, throw us a bone once in awhile!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 11:36:56 am by TheDarkJay »
Logged

Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 11:36:08 am »
  • ^Not actually me.
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9786
I'm more of a fan of classic RPGs, but on that same token I like Diablo II's level up system.

I wish they'd make just 1 classic style RPG where you modify your own stats point by point like in Diablo II :(
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 01:38:35 pm »
  • Super Hero Time!
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4859
tl;dr

The problem is that most of them suck.
Logged
!@#$% I lost my entire post, god dammit.
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 01:40:08 pm »
  • Modrill made the avatar. I command you to like it.
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1159
I'm more of a fan of classic RPGs, but on that same token I like Diablo II's level up system.

I wish they'd make just 1 classic style RPG where you modify your own stats point by point like in Diablo II :(

Play Untold Legends for the PSP... or a Shin Megami Tensei...

Diablo II was cruel to me... it would not install in my computer! D:



I kinda agree with you, TDJ... Although most of the RPGs that are like that usually include Mario somewhere in the title (but then again, I usually stick to Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy and I will sometimes deviate and play odd RPGs like Lunar Legend <3)

Either way, the one thing I hate about RPGs are having to level grind to continue with the story. Here's an example of me not liking level grinding:

I have just gone up 2 levels in 2 hours, can I now go to the cave I'm supposed to go to? *Goes inside* Dangit, I need to level up more.

And an example of me liking it:

Oooh, I wanna try and get the first prize in Lindblum's hunter festival thing. I don't need to but why not? *Level grinds a few hours* w00t, lemme see those beast kill Zidane now! >:D >:D >:D

In other words, if you need to level up too much to continue with the next part of the story, level grinding is just an artificial way of lengthening the game... But if I need to level grind in order to complete an optional side quest or to receive a "better ending" then by all means, bring it on!

Why did I get off on level grinding anyways? O_o Errr... Meh.

Either way, I'm not very good at timing split second movements so I usually end up having to level grind in those twitching RPGs too anyway. D:



While we're on the topic of modern RPGs and their problems... I loved the way the Playstation Final Fantasys looked like. Really felt like I was watching a movie I was controlling. Final Fantasy X killed that for me... and other 3D RPGs too. nothing ground breaking, but the feeling was there.

At least DQ is more like playing a book. :3
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 01:42:37 pm by Garoth Moulinoski »
Logged




My Brawl FC is 1289-8196-4511. Don't expect me to be on all the time though.
  • Super Smash Karts
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 01:49:01 pm »
  • I had to sew my face back on with string cheese
  • *
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1334
I like action RPGs more than turn based ones because those get boring pretty easily.  Terranigma is an awesome game, and so is the Seiken Densetsu series.  I also really like Threads of Fate, but I hate the way you raise your stats, it's kinda stupid.  Also, like Garoth said, level grinding isn't that fun.  Maybe I just suck at Kingdom Hearts, but it seemed like I was grinding a lot in it.
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 02:02:49 pm »
  • (y)(;>.<;)(y)
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3293
Even if it's not turn-based, the stats should still matter. Oblivion, to use the most extreme example, was crap as an RPG because the higher your stats were, the harder the game was. Enemies levelled with you, and as a result every fight lasted five minutes and used up all your magicka/potions/armour. It just didn't work on any level.

As for level-grinding, a good solution would be to include more optional quests that involve killing monsters and gaining exp.
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 03:57:59 pm »
  • Modrill made the avatar. I command you to like it.
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1159
Even if it's not turn-based, the stats should still matter. Oblivion, to use the most extreme example, was crap as an RPG because the higher your stats were, the harder the game was. Enemies levelled with you, and as a result every fight lasted five minutes and used up all your magicka/potions/armour. It just didn't work on any level.

As for level-grinding, a good solution would be to include more optional quests that involve killing monsters and gaining exp.

Dear God yes for both points. You level up to become stronger than the monsters not to... idk. :/
Logged




My Brawl FC is 1289-8196-4511. Don't expect me to be on all the time though.
  • Super Smash Karts
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 04:07:51 pm »
  • :D
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2418
Hah, I feel pretty differently than you on the issue:  To be honest, I don't give a !@#$% about gameplay in an RPG.  I don't really play games for statistics, turn-based battles, and grinding levels-- I play RPGS for the storyline.  Honestly I'd be content with any sort of gameplay-- but the more action-based engaging gameplay is more fun, so I prefer it when they add some sort of action into it.  But I agree with you that the enemies adjusting to your level in oblivion is !@#$% stupid XD
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 09:31:06 pm »
  • I had to sew my face back on with string cheese
  • *
  • Reputation: +2/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1334
I agree with Limey, though I like leveling up, and sometimes grinding is fun(just play Dragon Warrior Monsters on the emulator Visual Boy Advance and press the space bar to make it super fast).
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 09:43:20 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6206
I love how Oblivion plays, I dislike most traditional RPGs(Ugh... old Final Fantasy games) I dislike turnbased fighting, except for the Paper Mario Games.
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 09:55:40 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 775
wholeheartedly agree
it did make the game more challenging but also more pointless
also, they did it again: same mobs scattered everywhere
you have to dungeon crawl to find new mobs
most parts of the game is impressive to say the least
i would have loved to travel to areas with my life hanging in a thread so thin you need a nuclear test-o-tron to detect it
Logged

My Child Is Student of The Month at Neverland Ranch!
  • SSEdit
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 10:33:20 pm »
  • (y)(;>.<;)(y)
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3293
I love how Oblivion plays, I dislike most traditional RPGs(Ugh... old Final Fantasy games) I dislike turnbased fighting, except for the Paper Mario Games.

I assume you downloaded a mod like OOO to stop the levelling-of-enemies? It was the only way I could enjoy Oblivion...and even that didn't help much. I love Morrowind, it did some things wrong (Bethesda have never been good at making games stable), but did so much more right.

I like turn-based and non-turn-based RPGs, but when I buy an RPG I damn well expect it to be an RPG. Oblivion was more of an Open-Ended FPS until you modded it...like GTA meets Counter Strike....with swords.
Logged
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 12:10:54 am »
  • Modrill made the avatar. I command you to like it.
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1159
Hah, I feel pretty differently than you on the issue:  To be honest, I don't give a !@#$% about gameplay in an RPG.  I don't really play games for statistics, turn-based battles, and grinding levels-- I play RPGS for the storyline.  Honestly I'd be content with any sort of gameplay-- but the more action-based engaging gameplay is more fun, so I prefer it when they add some sort of action into it.  But I agree with you that the enemies adjusting to your level in oblivion is !@#$% stupid XD

Oh, me too. If the RPG's story is bleh, I won't play it for too long.

I also dislike low encounter rates... I mean, I'd like to move at least a couple dozen tiles before the next battle... Unless I'm grinding... :< Dangit, can't have it both ways... Which is why you use the Whistle command in Dragon Quest III! :D
Logged




My Brawl FC is 1289-8196-4511. Don't expect me to be on all the time though.
  • Super Smash Karts
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 03:03:46 am »
  • (b'-')b Jesus Guitar d('-'d)
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 395
I love how everyone agrees with me that leveling with the player is wrong! You guys are now my favorite.

That's why I loved the thing that Morrowind had. When you get the expansions, it came with the difficulty adjuster. At any time you could set it to anywhere between -100 and 100 difficulty, 0 being normal, and you could choose how hard you wanted the game to be. The enemies would literally get to the point that, at 100 difficulty, you could still level up to the point that you were strong enough to one-hit kill them (especially with some of the Daedric weapons), but they were challenging enough that if you weren't that strong, you still had to rely on potions and magicka and such.
Logged
T H I R T Y - T H R E E   T H R E E

Blog | Myspace | Facebook | Clan LmS

Mirby

Drifter
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 07:34:46 pm »
  • To bomb or not to bomb...
  • *
  • Reputation: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4162
Leveling up can get pretty annoying, but I like it. I also agree that RPGs need to be more like the ones of old, where your trigger finger wouldn't save you if your defense and HP weren't high enough, and wouldn't help if they were. That being said, there is some sort of satisfaction in defeating a boss with low stats. You can't find that anymore. And the Mario RPGs (M&L and PM) are like that to attract more people, and serve as an introduction to the genre.
Logged

Mirby Studios | Share & Enjoy now available! (Links above!) | Games I've Beaten
Quote from: Mamoruanime
I like-like it :D
  • Mirby Studios
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 11:22:22 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4654
Final fantasy 8 enemies leveled up with the players too.

although you didn't have to level in that game.
Logged


Mirby

Drifter
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 11:26:45 pm »
  • To bomb or not to bomb...
  • *
  • Reputation: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4162
Well, you could, and the summons, or GF's, did too. But only one weapon per character, and to get new ones, you had to remodel them. Interesting idea. Although 8 did kinda bring back the Blitz command, albeit as a limit break and it was called Duel, and it gave you the commands. Also, w00t for Phantom Rush (or Bum Rush) in FF6! With your level at least 60, you can deal 9999 damage with it! Heck, in FF6A, you can deal 9999 damage with Pummel as well, as long as Valor is in effect.
Logged

Mirby Studios | Share & Enjoy now available! (Links above!) | Games I've Beaten
Quote from: Mamoruanime
I like-like it :D
  • Mirby Studios
Re: The problem with modern RPGs
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 03:05:57 am »
  • Modrill made the avatar. I command you to like it.
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1159
Final fantasy 8 enemies leveled up with the players too.

although you didn't have to level in that game.

The thing about Final Fantasy 8 is that the enemies level up with your characters but not with your GFs. At the beginning of the game, it was said that the stronger your GFs, the stronger you are.

Also, drawing and junctioning magic also helped allow you to become more powerful than your enemies. I had 9999 Hp by the end of the game for all three of my party members. I think at least Squall had max STR...

Well, the point is, FF8 doesn't have the enemies-level-with-you problem because the problem is balanced by other systems used in the game.
Logged




My Brawl FC is 1289-8196-4511. Don't expect me to be on all the time though.
  • Super Smash Karts
Pages: [1]   Go Up

 


Contact Us | Legal | Advertise Here
2013 © ZFGC, All Rights Reserved



Page created in 0.409 seconds with 74 queries.

anything