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Author Topic: The greenhouse effect :P  (Read 7243 times)

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The greenhouse effect :P
« on: December 29, 2006, 08:57:23 pm »
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I know I have started topics about the greenhouse effect before... a few times <_< Though people didn't seem to take it too serious back then. But now I think/hope people are being a bit more serious about it.

As far as I know, the green house effect hasn't caused something too serious yet, but I hope people will do something before that happens.  People just have a tendency to react only if they see or hear something that thouches them. For instance, something tragical. And the same thing seems to happen when talking about the greenhouse effect. It's like all the world's land has to be covered with water until people will react and take action.

Most people know Sweden as a could country. And this year, it didn't SNOW. It didn't SNOW in SWEDEN (if it has/will, then we're talking about snow that melts away the day after)! And the trees are already growing fruits! I have even heard that we might turn into one of those "tourist countries", the weather is changing completely.
This is a huge change for us, but think of the people in Asia who get their water from the glaciers. If they melt, they won't have any water. And people will probably move to other countries because of hot weather or lack of water.

So what do you do to prevent the greenhouse effect? Do you do anything? Or do you even know what you could do?
I started ages ago, and these are some of the things I do: I rather walk/use my bike than a car, I turn the "on" buttons on tv's, computer screens etc off when they're not being used (example: you can turn your tv off with a controller but you still need to press the button on the tv to have it off completely :P!). I try to use as less water as possible and I only throw crap in the garbage (think of the atmosphere <_<!).
Maybe some of the things I do do not have anything to do with the greenhouse effect, but they're important to keep other things at a normal level :P
Anywayz, those are some of the things I do. Hope you learned something >_________________>(?)

So, DISCUSS!

P.S

:D

D.S
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 09:43:50 pm »
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Yeah, it's frickin' odd it hasn't snowed yet. o.O I haven' noticed it until now. It has rained some only. Even wild daffodil ("p??skliljor") have started to come up from the ground, and that usually happens at the very earliest in February or March.

Personally I don't think an individual can do something. It's wasted to try to do something yourself. Although I do it automatically because I enjoy that alternative way anyhow. But, I think that many don't want to do these little sacrifices for it because they know it's a waste.

I use public transport, consume very little generally, and don't use more than I need to feel comfortable, and I try to get things second hand (Although I don't like stuff like Tvind/UFF and Christian charityshops maybe a little). This is also healthy for my wallet xP, because gas is expensive (yay for Green Party! No sarcasm intended).

Reforms I would want to see is among others: Not allow cars (driven with environment-unfriendly sources) unless you are going to a place where public transport (should be tax paid mind you) can't take you, and in that case you would need a permission. This could also mean a lot less noise and accidents.

I think that to solve these problems we need to make reforms in the society. As I said individuals can't do anything themselves because even if you do an alternative the bad way still happen (in most cases). For example if you are four people going to a place (whatever place) and one have driver's license and three of them decides to go by car. But the fourth doesn't like the idea, because of the environment. But really, if this fourth person does go with them or not doesn't matter because the car will go anyway. The fourth person might still feel a bit bad about it if he/she goes with them in the car (because he/she is partly the reason for the pollution), but at the same time if he/she decides to go with an alternative means the pollution would be the same, the ultimate effect would be the same. A reform would "force" them all four to get to the destination environment-friendly and there would be no bad feelings and everyone is happy, YAY!

One important thing though it to not compromise or limit freedom in the reforms. People would still have to feel comfortable. That means if they could prove an alternative way that still doesn't affect the outcome of the reform, like a environment-friendly car, they should be able to use it (because I know that it can limit ones freedom for example by only going by public transport, at least nowdays).
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2006, 12:00:42 am »
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IMHO, global warming won't have a noticeable effect on anything for a good long time, I'll probably be dead when that day somes, so I really don't worry too much about it.
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2006, 12:16:04 am »
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IMHO, global warming won't have a noticeable effect on anything for a good long time, I'll probably be dead when that day somes, so I really don't worry too much about it.

WHAT?! You do realize that there are more people going to live after you die, right? Yeah, let's burn down the whole Earth and not think about the future.

On another note; if companies tries to minimize their outcome at the cost of the environment, what are they going to do with all their money in a destroyed world? Personally I'd rather live well poor, than bad rich.
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2006, 12:19:45 am »
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Of course. It's not like I'm the only reason humanity exists. But as far as I see it, this story can end two ways: One, we all burn, or two, we realize the errors of our ways, convert all vehicles to run on biofuels, and use nuclear power.

What am I saying? Humanity blows. By the time we realize we're really messing things up, we'd be pretty much screwed. Such is the ways of our pathetic species. We should all convert to our primal state.
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2006, 12:24:20 am »
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Or we could make a concious effort to lower population through birth control, reforest parts of the world that have been deforested, and encourage people to make small changes to their lives without spending any extra money, to get them to use less CO2 producing fuels. Howzat sound?
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2006, 12:29:42 am »
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Hm...that has me thinking. We could probably find a way to convert CO2 into Oxygen, right? I mean, if nature can do it, we can probably duplicate the same effect. So why not build giant facilities dedicated to atmospheric conversion? Then spread rich, rich oxygen throughout the world. Trees would become obsolete.

Just a thought. Oh, and E82 (or is it 83...?) FTW!
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2006, 12:35:01 am »
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Hm...that has me thinking. We could probably find a way to convert CO2 into Oxygen, right? I mean, if nature can do it, we can probably duplicate the same effect. So why not build giant facilities dedicated to atmospheric conversion? Then spread rich, rich oxygen throughout the world. Trees would become obsolete.

Just a thought. Oh, and E82 (or is it 83...?) FTW!

Simple answer: The amount of energy used in seperating the carbon and oxygen atoms is immense, and where do you think that energy comes from? Yep you've guessed it fuels that produce C02, its a vicious-cycle.
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2006, 12:47:07 am »
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Which is why we need to convert to nuclear power: No pollution. (Not that I know of, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2006, 12:51:53 am »
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Which is why we need to convert to nuclear power: No pollution. (Not that I know of, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

O_O, .... gallons and gallons of nuclear waste with a half-life of over 50,000 years? Nuclear fission actually has an immense amount of enviromental, ecological and economical problems despite what the general public believe. Nuclear fusion however looks exceptionally promising, if they can get that working we really should be set :P.

Generally with all power sources you have to think carefully about where the initial energy is coming from and what the energy source is doing, thermal dynamics prevent you getting more energy out of a reaction than you put in (hence perpetual motion dosen't exist) ... sorry I'm digressing a bit >.>, I'll stop now.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 12:55:08 am by Helios »
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2006, 12:58:11 am »
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A super chilled particle engine was developed back in '98, so we could to like the UNSC and develop a super chilled particle coolant system to keep the temperatures of a fusion reactor at a reasonable level.

<.<
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2006, 01:01:38 am »
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A super chilled particle engine was developed back in '98, so we could to like the UNSC and develop a super chilled particle coolant system to keep the temperatures of a fusion reactor at a reasonable level.

<.<

Can you post a link about that please? I would be quite intrested in seeing how they cool down a reaction that creates hundreds of times more heat than the sun to a mangeable level - besides any and all cooling in fusion makes the reactions completely inefficient and unfeasable to maintain.

Edit: Oh, and if your talking about cold fusion, then its not really worth bothering to debate as cold fusion produces no net energy gain and as such is unusable as a power source.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 01:07:22 am by Helios »
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2006, 01:04:12 am »
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Hold on...extensive Wiki search. When I find it, I'll edit this post.

EDIT: !@#$%, man. You'd think Wikipedia would have something on it. Well, deny it all you want, but I've heard about it, I've seen documentaries about it...it exists.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 01:21:55 am by Cronian »
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2006, 02:01:03 am »
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I consider global warming to be nothing. However, Global Climate change is my main focus. I focus on it being a natural process that happens to this planet (maybe all planets?) throughout its life time. Whether or not humans have had an impact on that change is hard to say. I don't feel there is enough evidence to say if we have or have not. However in the long run its better to be safe than sorry. If there is a way to avoid pollution or contamination it should be done.

The sea level is rising that is very evident to people who are not blind to facts such as these. There is an estimated 1 meter sea level rise within the next 100 years or so. Consider the fact 'oh well, thats pretty far off, I really don't care'. However we cannot just think about ourselves, we have to think about the people in the future as well. I recently did a project using my GIS skills to show a 1 meter sea level rise impact on our local island of Tutulia. The project was mainly focused around a highly populated area, the main road that gets us from one end of the island to the other, along with the international airport that resides here. A 1 meter sea level rise takes out a large portion of the airport, most major connecting roads, along with a lot of future possibly displaced people.

Stepping away from sea levels rising, what impacts do small temperature changes have in places. You see where the news says the temp went up one or two degrees in an area, which is not much from an American Stand point because we assume its in Fahrenheit when it reality its most likely in another measurement which we don't use.. Stepping away from that stand point in general, in areas where the temperature rising doesn't matter we don't pay attention to it. Lets step away from that and look at tropical reefs. If the temperature is not stable within a reef things die. The reason that fish, and birds and other animals are so specific to each island chain and each island is because of the temperatures in each of these regions, how hot/cold the water is. So in essence if animals start to die from these regions things will have affects in others. Birds that normally migrate here wont, they will go elsewhere, going elsewhere may cause havoc on local crops within that area. Thats really just one theory.

Lets look at another thing, which is the storms that have been pushing into the north western US. These have been fairly recent within the last few weeks. There was never much snow when I lived in Oregon now they're getting out right hammered with snow suddenly. The storms are not only full of snow, but full of wind, and not just a little bit of wind, but hurricane force winds just at the start of winter. Any west coast person that lives inland knows that winds like that are fairly rare, maybe once or twice a year. I saw yesterday that high winds towards Red Wood City California had knocked over massive power lines that managed to cross and cut off I-5. I also saw that I-5 was again closed south of San Francisco due to ice. Why are people not raising questions as to why this is happening?

There is also, as Tabby said, a lack of snow in areas where there is always snow. I saw in the news today a major ice shelf has collapsed in northern Canada, which would make one assume 'hey the ice caps are melting, hey that means the sea level will rise'. We have to realize that we cannot take small changes with a 'grain of salt'. Small changes, no matter where you are impact your areas hugely. 

Like  I said earlier, I feel global warming is Global Climate Change, a natural process. Whether we have a major impact on that natural process I have yet to take a good hard look into, but I think we do have some impact on that, and in reality, what will reducing our pollution do? It will make us feel better, be less sick, it will allow us to be more healthy. We need to have clean standards if we have the ability to create the clean standards, other wise we're just being lazy.

Another point I want to bring in is the recent change in the Bush Administrations view of "Global Warming"? The Bush Administration has always said there is no significant proof of global warming, or any impacts of it, yet suddenly the Bush Administration is pushing for Polar Bears to be on the endangered list. This kind of makes me ponder as to if they're making 'little changes' to please a now Democratically controlled Congress. None the less it wont have a huge impact on anything, but maybe its a 'start in the right direction' or a start in 'we're just !@#$% with you for the hell of it'.
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2006, 02:34:18 am »
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Hm...anyone ever see that movie "The Day After Tomorrow?" It might actually be feasible: Global warming creates a gigantic storm, which causes mass evaporation and a HUGE drop in temperature, plunging the world into another ice age.
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2006, 02:49:30 am »
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Hm...anyone ever see that movie "The Day After Tomorrow?" It might actually be feasible: Global warming creates a gigantic storm, which causes mass evaporation and a HUGE drop in temperature, plunging the world into another ice age.

Its based on a fiction book called "Super Global Storm" written by Art Bell, and another man. Art Bell (dispite being known for discussion of ghosts and other random things like aliens) also discusses other science topics such as global warming. I believe the book was put together using theories and other various ideas. The movie/book has some realistic possibilities in some aspects, but Its hard to say with the structure of the storm that was given in the book. Though the west coast is seeing hurricane force winds, the storms are not in the shape of an actual cyclone style storm. However, the concept of there being hurricane force winds and snow seems rather odd to me.

As for a huge drop in temp. With the ice caps melting as they are, due to the massive temp changes (rising temps) the chance of an ice age is good, because the sheets of ice are sliding southwards. There is also a little unknown factor known as the magnetic pole flip. This is where the north and the south pole change directions and flip with each other, this is something known but not tied directly in with climate changes. Personally I feel there is a link between the changes in the pole, and the way the climate is on earth. Since they both happen regularly (throughout the 'existence' of earth). I feel, and would like to someday propose a study in that area. My other passion is GeoSciences. >.>
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 02:52:56 am by Andrew »
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2006, 03:01:26 pm »
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Venus, everyone is important D: Every single person is. And you do make a change as a single person.
Think of it as a group, if you would look at a group as a whole, but yourself as a single person, you would feel like you're just there and doing nothing. But if you see yourself as someone in the group, then you would understand that you are important and you do make a change.

And Andrew, you always manage to write something good.. But this time you failed... j/k XD
You're mentioning important points there, and that project you had done sounds really interesting. We're doing something like that in school, well me and some others are. We're going to show how Sweden will look like if the water level will rise by... err, we don't really know how yet but we'll do something <_<.

Hmm, I was thinking, why can't we build something that has the same function as the rain forest!? That would solve all our problems :P! Or perhaps we should try to save/keep the rain forest first... considering it's being taken advantaged of...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 03:07:14 pm by Tabby »
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2006, 03:15:53 pm »
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Venus, everyone is important D: Every single person is. And you do make a change as a single person.
Think of it as a group, if you would look at a group as a whole, but yourself as a single person, you would feel like you're just there and doing nothing. But if you see yourself as someone in the group, then you would understand that you are important and you do make a change.
And btw, do you know if the "gas - busses" have been changed to "bio-gas-busses" yet XD? I think they were going to do that long time ago o_O?
Bio-gas is good but expensive. They should make it cheaper than gas, don't you think? Cause I think bio-gas is the best source to use? Maybe more people will choose environment-friendly cars as long as the  bio-gas and the cars are cheaper.

And Andrew, you always manage to write something good.. But this time you failed... j/k XD
You're mentioning important points there, and that project you had done sounds really interesting. We're doing something like that in school, well me and some others are. We're going to show how Sweden will look like if the water level will rise by... err, we don't really know how yet but we'll do something <_<.

Hmm, I was thinking, why can't we build something that has the same function as the rain forest!? That would solve all our problems :P! Or perhaps we should try to save/keep the rain forest first... considering it's being taken advantaged of...
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2006, 04:45:36 pm »
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Well, CO2 reflects back heat radiation, causing the greenhouse effect, I'm sure we've done tests that prove that. Also we KNOW that the % of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen from 3.5% (i think it gained 0.5%).

I personally will not do anything about it (because for a start I'm only 15 so don't exactly have a car), because it IS pointless at this time. Say the whole of the UK goes green. GREAT! At the rate china is going, then they will end up using what we were using twice over.

THE PROBLEM ISN'T THE RISING CO2! IT'S THAT NOTHING IS GETTING RID OF IT!

More CO2 means more plants. More heat means more plants. More plants means less C02. Less CO2 means less heat.

So we don't have to worry as much about global warming if we stop cutting down every !@#$% tree we see!
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Re: The greenhouse effect :P
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2006, 07:25:44 pm »
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THE PROBLEM ISN'T THE RISING CO2! IT'S THAT NOTHING IS GETTING RID OF IT!

More CO2 means more plants. More heat means more plants. More plants means less C02. Less CO2 means less heat.

So we don't have to worry as much about global warming if we stop cutting down every funking tree we see!

Too much heat isn't good. And if all of that would be true then nobody would really care about the greenhouse effect.

And not using a car isn't the only way to help, but you could also do simple things like  trying to not use too much energy in your house or just don't use more water than necessary etc :P
 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 07:31:08 pm by Tabby »
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