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Author Topic: [REVISE] Forest Temple  (Read 18142 times)

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[REVISE] Forest Temple
« on: June 04, 2012, 01:26:47 pm »
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Well, as there was no layout for the forest temple, I thought why not to give it a try, and here it is.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 02:09:13 pm by MG-Zero »
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Re: [SUBMISSION] Forest Temple
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 02:09:02 pm »
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A few things:

1. Would it be possible to make the dungeon overall look more foresty and ancient?  More outdoor areas would be awesome!
2. Where is the entrance, exactly?  Is it that outdoor section?
3. Does the boss battle take place in the room with the heart container?
4. Would you be able to make this just a weee bit longer of a dungeon?  I just feel like the player will blast through this in less than 5 minutes on their first run and won't have much sense of accomplishment.  For example, the mini boss and hookshot are both right at the start, assuming that outdoor area is the start.  Typically, you have to run around in the dungeon for a bit first before you get to this.  It also allows you to see the rules of the dungeon ahead of time and what you'll actually need that item for.

Also, I suggest you work with someone else on this to flesh out more ideas and such.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 02:12:16 pm by MG-Zero »
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 03:32:25 pm »
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I agree with MG on his points. The main thing is that it'd definitely too small, and a bit confusing, because I can't tell where to start! I would also like more outdoor spaces, particularly once you get the hookshot.
I think it'd make most sense if you had to go through the bottom floors of the crumbling Kokori Temple to get the hookshot, which allowed you to traverse the canopy, which allows you to reach otherwise in accessible parts of the dungeon. It would also be pretty cool if the boss battle was in the canopy, but that's just me :p

The great things about this map are the way you did the treetops, though. They're a bit rough with their overlap some places, but the idea is solid, and genius. I also love the leaves around the door by the canopy part.

Also, in dungeon designs, if you want to do something like branches the player walks across or giant trees or anything that hasn't been sprited, just use placeholder graphics and we'll fix it up to looking' beautiful later.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 05:36:11 pm »
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Personally I think you should use the minish woods tileset and dungeon tileset as a base for the dungeon, it has a more mysterious feel to it. Also I agree with max about the dungeon progression. I always pictured this dungeon as a damp and dark (but not dark in a particularly evil way, moreso in just being in the heart of the forest) sort of dungeon where you spent a lot of time underground, coming out at a few places to traverse some dense foresty areas with rotten logs and a thick canopy overhead, so rather dark. Although the idea of going into the canopy is good too, I think it would make sense to climb up there at some point after getting the grapple.
Also the length of the dungeon probably needs to be minimum 3-4 times as long as it is right now :P
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 07:32:32 pm »
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Okay, the rest is really nice, but I have to say this. "The dungeon design stinks." It is really bad, however it is your first try and this topic is about improving it. Before you read my post further go to this page (http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/GBA/index.htm#LegendOfZeldaMinishCap) and look at how Nintendo build their maps.

Okay, you are done looking. Then here are some pointers that you seriously need to take a look at.

1) Your dungeon is way to short. It looks like it is done in five minutes. That is if I have the route correct, because it is not very clear on that.

2) Where is the entrance. It is not clear where the entrance to the temple is, but I assume it is the part with the trees. However this means that you get the hookshot right at the beginning. And you don't use the boomerang to get in the dungeon as the GDD ask. But that is something to be debated if you have a better idea.

3) Where is the end. I see a room with a heart contair when you defeat the boss. However the room does not really lend itself for a boss fight. Something that I thought was lacking in MC is a backroom/vault/altar thing where you recieve the quest item, in this case the cog.

4) Your dungeon only uses the sword to defeat enemies and hookshot to pull things. In this dungeon you also have the ability of the Boomerang and a considerable set of thieving skills. Use them, because even with this short dungeon I thought things were getting repetitive. Work with switches (like ground, block and wall switches). Even though grabbing, pushing, pulling, rolling, lifting, ledge jumping, pitfalling and drowning are not mentioned in the GDD, I think no one would mind if it was added. Make use of different heights on the same floor.

5) Your areas are disconnected. You have several separate rooms which do not even line up propperly. You have drawn lines between doors, but I cannot fit them well together. Either it is the size of the doors that do not match or the tiles. You use different tiles in each room. Also some doors have stairs in them, but the connecting door does not. This also kind of makes it confusing which room is on what floor. Is each room a different floor? Or are there some rooms on the same floor? It really is a mess.

6) This I have to agree with the rest. I think making it more of a tree structure instead of a tower would be better. It is more Kokiri like and suits the area much more. If there aren't any correct sprites/tiles to use, make a placeholder sprite/tile and give a description of what that placeholder should be. Or try creating new tiles, whatever suits you best. For placeholder you could also use a colored square.



Some guidelines in creating a map:
- Miniboss and dungeon item are about half way the dungeon. Never at the beginning.
- Connect the doors of the rooms on the same floor. Every room on the same floor should connect with the walls. Only the floors are separated.
- draw only lines between connecting doors on different floors.
- Put numbers in the room and give in text a walkthrough of the dungeon,
     * mentioning the room number,
     * providing a description of the initial state when entering the room
     * providing the puzzle to solve at that moment
     * Changes that happen when solving the puzzle.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 07:40:18 pm »
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Oh, also, that section where you have to pull the statue: Nice idea, but I think the statue seems a bit heavy to pulled with the hookshot.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 10:27:01 pm »
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OK, I think I understand what you mean, I will add another part before the entrance (it begins on the southest part of the map, in the top of a tree), change some of the places to make them look a bit more "foresty". Yes, is my first try, and well, I wanted to contribute, I will try my best for you to like it.
Oh, also, that section where you have to pull the statue: Nice idea, but I think the statue seems a bit heavy to pulled with the hookshot.
About that, it wouldn't be pulling the statue per se, it would be pull the triforce it has on the front side.
Personally I think you should use the minish woods tileset and dungeon tileset as a base for the dungeon...
About that, I've been searching for MC tilesets, but I haven't found any of them yet. If someone could give me a link to it, I'd be very thankful.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 10:40:22 pm »
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MC tilesets are difficult to come by.  I'm gonna be hunting some down, but if I can't find any, feel free to use placeholders.

Quote
Yes, is my first try, and well, I wanted to contribute, I will try my best for you to like it.

That's the purpose of this ;) Don't take it too hard, we're reviewing the dungeons section the harshest.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 11:38:49 pm »
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Click Here I have found MC maps on VG Maps, You'll have to tile it yourself.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 02:28:24 pm »
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Ok, check out this, I "destroyed" some parts of the map to make it look a bit more ancient and add more forest areas. Still, I will add later in the south another temple part, to be the beginning of the temple, so that way is longer, and the mini-boss is halfway. Also I added a couple of things for the boomerang, and a weight switch.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 03:41:15 pm »
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I still feel like the "defeat enemies" puzzles are too cramped together.  I know you have more to add though, so we'll wait to see what you come up with for other parts.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 07:10:49 pm »
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I've thought of a couple puzzles, Mind if I share?
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2012, 07:41:23 pm »
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MC tilesets are difficult to come by.  I'm gonna be hunting some down, but if I can't find any, feel free to use placeholders.
I ripped all the overworld once. The graphics resources section should contain tons of MC tiles. I could also take a look at what I ripped once that I have not yet uploaded here.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 10:03:53 pm »
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I've thought of a couple puzzles, Mind if I share?

Tell me.

MC tilesets are difficult to come by.  I'm gonna be hunting some down, but if I can't find any, feel free to use placeholders.
I ripped all the overworld once. The graphics resources section should contain tons of MC tiles. I could also take a look at what I ripped once that I have not yet uploaded here.

If you could tell me, where they are, I'd be really thankful.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 10:06:48 pm by BlazeBigBang »
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 10:12:02 pm »
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By couple puzzles I meant puzzle types.
-Pushable Statues & Blocks
-Boomerang Switches
-Special Parts in the tree area that either reveil pits or stains when cut.
-A Room with moving vines that swing back and forth slowly, and obsure whats behind them, so it could potentailly be like the dirt from MC but a sword would cut right through them.

For the MC Graphics:
Click Here I have found MC maps on VG Maps, You'll have to tile it yourself.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2012, 10:17:55 pm »
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By couple puzzles I meant puzzle types.
-Pushable Statues & Blocks
-Boomerang Switches
-Special Parts in the tree area that either reveil pits or stains when cut.
-A Room with moving vines that swing back and forth slowly, and obsure whats behind them, so it could potentailly be like the dirt from MC but a sword would cut right through them.

For the MC Graphics:
Click Here I have found MC maps on VG Maps, You'll have to tile it yourself.
Ok, thanks, I will have them in mind. Also thanks for the maps, I will keep working on this.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2012, 10:25:03 pm »
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No problem at all.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 08:30:13 am »
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In regard to tiles I had some really good sets that someone else made a few years ago, I'll try and dig them up.
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 12:39:16 pm »
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In regard to tiles I had some really good sets that someone else made a few years ago, I'll try and dig them up.

That'd be awesome
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Re: [REVISE] Forest Temple
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2012, 01:45:32 pm »
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Well, after some more editing, adding zones and a couple more of things, I bring you the new Forest Temple!

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