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[BlazeBigBang]

BlazeBigBang

[Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

Name: Kamikaze Keese
Location: dungeons and such
HP: 1 heart
Description: a keese that will attack Link, that if hits, gets destroyed and gets damaged
Kamikaze: 1 heart
Battle Flow: the player can avoid the attack or counter attack (attack when is flying towards to Link).

Name: ChuChu Kamikaze
Location: dungeons and such
HP: 1 heart
Description: a ChuChu in fire that when getting close to Link will explode.
Kamikaze: 1 heart
Battle Flow: the player can avoid the attack or counter attack (attack when getting close to Link).

[Kami]

Kami

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

The Sandglider kamikaze might not work. It would pretty much be an FU to the player. Plus rock wasps already are pretty much this, you don't want too much of the same type of AI.

[Zaeranos]

Zaeranos

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

I don't like the kamikaze variations of regular enemies. And like shadow said we already have the rock wasp.

I'm sorry but I don't see this getting any better, thus for this idea is rejected. I will look at MG and Max for more.

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

We won't cut just yet as there hasn't been any discussion on it.  I'm curious to see where the chu chu ends up.

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Zaeranos]

Zaeranos

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

I don't know. We already have a great number of chu chu variations. I don't think we need one more. Especially when it behaves the same as the other chu chu's

[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

Still doesn't give you the excuse to automatically cut these without a discussion.

I personally think kamikaze enemies sound nice and would add an extra challenge to the game. I especially like kamikaze keese!

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[BlazeBigBang]

BlazeBigBang

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

Thanks, Star. The Kamikaze Keese is good, but I think the Diver is better. This !@#$% can swim and will attack you with 1.5 HP

[Zaeranos]

Zaeranos

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

Still doesn't give you the excuse to automatically cut these without a discussion.

I didn't. I just opted it, which I (as a reviewer) have all the right to it. But seriously, I don't like these suicide variations of weak enemies. So convince me that I would be willing to accept them.

Here are my reason's for not accepting:
1) The first two are another variation of enemies we already have a shitload of.
2) How can the player differentiate between a regular and this Keese.
3) What Chu Jelly does this one offer that is different and usable for potions.
4) The first two are variations on weak enemies, which are not even a bit of a challenge because they kill themselves during their attack. They are most likely not even a nuisance.
5) The diver might be the most interesting but it still is full of holes in its description, that leaves me wondering. Like is the enemy always above the surface of the water, where Link can get it with a projectile or something. Or is it below the water's surface where Link can't get to it. And is it even visible below the water surface.
6) Is the enemy stationary in the water or does it swim around?
7) And how do you use the Diver to solve puzzles?
How do the Magnetic Gloves even effect the Diver?
9) "Can also be used to "run" over the water"? Uhm, what? How do you see this happening?
10) Personally I don't like the idea of suicide.

[BlazeBigBang]

BlazeBigBang

Re: [Submission] Kamikaze Enemies

1) Having ONE more variation, won't kill anyone
2) The difference is seen that this is brown, not black. Anyway, this can always be decided by the artwork section
3) If the players kill the Chu, it'll give you a good jelly (damn, I can't find the post about the jelly)
4) They just think: "Kamikaze, Kamikaze, Kamikaze".
5) No. It just goes on the surface, and the player can see its finn. If the player dives, the diver will dive to the point where it was the player when the diver saw him, and will crash against the floor of the pool/lake.
6) Swims around.
7) Grab it with the gloves and swim around the pool. Don't crash against a wall, because if you do you will get damaged.
It's a mechanic enemy. Forgot to say it in the description.
9) Works as explained in 7).
10) Why not?

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

4) The first two are variations on weak enemies, which are not even a bit of a challenge because they kill themselves during their attack. They are most likely not even a nuisance.

Not a nuisance?  You clearly haven't played enough Minecraft

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Kami]

Kami

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

4) The first two are variations on weak enemies, which are not even a bit of a challenge because they kill themselves during their attack. They are most likely not even a nuisance.

Not a nuisance?  You clearly haven't played enough Minecraft

My castle has a hug fuckin hole in the wall because of a Creeper Invasion, Not a Nuisance?

[thestig]

thestig

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

Niek, you need to chill out. That behavior is awfully uncalled for.

I'm sorry but I don't see this getting any better, thus for this idea is rejected.

^^ This is specifically the type of stuff I'm referring to when I say "chill out". I've seen you behave this way with other submissions recently. The job of a reviewer is a privilege, but being a jerk isn't part of your job description. Keep it clean and play fair.

I'm sorry Blaze, for having to put up with that behavior. I really do feel bad that you had to read that before anyone had a chance to respond to your submission.

And if we are going to have variations of enemies that do kamikaze, then it would have to be limited. Me personally, I think this should be a mere state rather than a standalone enemy.  Because the reality is, the enemy itself really isn't different except that it is more attracted to the player than normal enemies, no? At least that's what I get from the design you're trying to submit. Don't get me wrong, I like your idea, I just want to try and simplify it because this could totally be useful for some scenarios while doing level design.

[HyperRidley]

HyperRidley

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

Maybe we could save all these Kamikaze variations for a hard mode like in the original LoZ or Skyward Sword.  "Oh hey, a group of Keese, how is this any more difficu-" *explodes*

[BlazeBigBang]

BlazeBigBang

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

And if we are going to have variations of enemies that do kamikaze, then it would have to be limited. Me personally, I think this should be a mere state rather than a standalone enemy.  Because the reality is, the enemy itself really isn't different except that it is more attracted to the player than normal enemies, no? At least that's what I get from the design you're trying to submit. Don't get me wrong, I like your idea, I just want to try and simplify it because this could totally be useful for some scenarios while doing level design.

We have two variations, and a motherfucking mechanic fish. Two variationes may be enough, I think. Although I think I will be adding some kamikaze related with the shiekas.

[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

And if we are going to have variations of enemies that do kamikaze, then it would have to be limited. Me personally, I think this should be a mere state rather than a standalone enemy.  Because the reality is, the enemy itself really isn't different except that it is more attracted to the player than normal enemies, no? At least that's what I get from the design you're trying to submit. Don't get me wrong, I like your idea, I just want to try and simplify it because this could totally be useful for some scenarios while doing level design.

We have two variations, and a motherfucking mechanic fish. Two variationes may be enough, I think. Although I think I will be adding some kamikaze related with the shiekas.

In that case, I would strongly suggest making your "motherfucking mechanic fish" (I like the name there ) an enemy in itself, and the kamikaze thing a state, as gm112 mentioned. Since the kamikaze effect seems to do the same amount of damage for the Chuchu and the Keese, this would make sense. Does that work?

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[BlazeBigBang]

BlazeBigBang

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

And if we are going to have variations of enemies that do kamikaze, then it would have to be limited. Me personally, I think this should be a mere state rather than a standalone enemy.  Because the reality is, the enemy itself really isn't different except that it is more attracted to the player than normal enemies, no? At least that's what I get from the design you're trying to submit. Don't get me wrong, I like your idea, I just want to try and simplify it because this could totally be useful for some scenarios while doing level design.

We have two variations, and a motherfucking mechanic fish. Two variationes may be enough, I think. Although I think I will be adding some kamikaze related with the shiekas.

In that case, I would strongly suggest making your "motherfucking mechanic fish" (I like the name there ) an enemy in itself, and the kamikaze thing a state, as gm112 mentioned. Since the kamikaze effect seems to do the same amount of damage for the Chuchu and the Keese, this would make sense. Does that work?

Done

[Zaeranos]

Zaeranos

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

4) The first two are variations on weak enemies, which are not even a bit of a challenge because they kill themselves during their attack. They are most likely not even a nuisance.

Not a nuisance?  You clearly haven't played enough Minecraft

My castle has a hug fuckin hole in the wall because of a Creeper Invasion, Not a Nuisance?

No I have not played Minecraft at all. And no! A suicide attack is not a nuisance.

A Kamikaze attack is a self-solving problem, because when the enemy attacks it takes itself out of the equation as well. Just avoid the attack and the problem is solved. And if the enemy doesn't attack it is not a problem as well. In the event that you do get hit, you could get hearts from pots and plants to replenish yourself. And in Zelda games the enemies do not endlessly spawn over and over again, unless it is a story item such as the horde rush in SS. But that is not being discussed here.

And if this suicide attack is some kind of state, how is this being brought on. And how is it recognizable. Can it be avoided by leaving and re-entering the room. I am more open to seeing it as a story event, where the player is forced to confront these enemies and it feels natural that there are continuous respawning kamikaze enemies. But that is not presented here.

You can say that it can be solved by good level design, but that is just placing the problem somewhere else. And while the rest of the level is really good, the part with Kamikaze enemies still can be really bad. But is it then due to poor level-design or due to the poor enemy design. Who would be to blame?

To me Kamikaze is a problem that the computer solves for you. It doesn't take skill nor does it require any effort on the player side to overcome the obstacle. It is a self-solving problem.

[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

4) The first two are variations on weak enemies, which are not even a bit of a challenge because they kill themselves during their attack. They are most likely not even a nuisance.

Not a nuisance?  You clearly haven't played enough Minecraft

My castle has a hug fuckin hole in the wall because of a Creeper Invasion, Not a Nuisance?

No I have not played Minecraft at all. And no! A suicide attack is not a nuisance.

A Kamikaze attack is a self-solving problem, because when the enemy attacks it takes itself out of the equation as well. Just avoid the attack and the problem is solved. And if the enemy doesn't attack it is not a problem as well. In the event that you do get hit, you could get hearts from pots and plants to replenish yourself. And in Zelda games the enemies do not endlessly spawn over and over again, unless it is a story item such as the horde rush in SS. But that is not being discussed here.

And if this suicide attack is some kind of state, how is this being brought on. And how is it recognizable. Can it be avoided by leaving and re-entering the room. I am more open to seeing it as a story event, where the player is forced to confront these enemies and it feels natural that there are continuous respawning kamikaze enemies. But that is not presented here.

You can say that it can be solved by good level design, but that is just placing the problem somewhere else. And while the rest of the level is really good, the part with Kamikaze enemies still can be really bad. But is it then due to poor level-design or due to the poor enemy design. Who would be to blame?

To me Kamikaze is a problem that the computer solves for you. It doesn't take skill nor does it require any effort on the player side to overcome the obstacle. It is a self-solving problem.

I completely disagree with most of what you say. The enemies could have homing on Link and target him, making it harder to dodge. You'd have to time your dodges. Equally, I think it would be beneficial to make the damage done significantly high to make you want to dodge and to add difficulty to the game. I don't see this as a self-solving problem.

The state could be triggered by environment or pretty much anything, really. I don't think this should be limited to something story-based. Let's say there's a dungeon that has some sort of "enemies go crazy" gas that triggers this state. Or even the environment being hot, I don't know. That's an entirely different case.

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[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

While yes, the enemy does remove itself by self destruction, it leaves the potential to leave a huge dent in the player's health with no definite was of recovery.  You could also simply make the enemy respawn after a short period if you want them to be persistent.

If you still think otherwise, then put the player into a position where they DON'T want the npc to explode due to close range or some catastrophic or inconvenient after effect.

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Max.]

Max.

Re: [Revise] Kamikaze Enemies

I agree with everyone about kamikaze enemies being a useful mechanism, one that video games have seen lots, and it works out. But I agree with Neik that  don't like these. Maaaaainly because we have at least four variations in Keese already and three zillion chu chus.

So, why not have a completely different enemy that hurls itself at Link and blows up? We have soooooo maaaaaany chuuu chuuuuuuuus!........