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[Xiphirx]

Xiphirx

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Getting rid of the Projects section is not going to solve anything, nor will it help.

And honestly, I do not think anyone will post in the Looking For Work board.

We seriously need to helpful resources (tutorials, etc.) as 4sword stated. A lot of the times, people come here to ask "How do I do this" but are left off with no answers. I think that there should be a new rule concerning topics unrelated to Zelda fan gaming such as "Hey  I found a cool site, check it out" or "So who here thinks this game is the coolest" topics. Of course, life issues and things like "I need help with my PC" are acceptable. We REALLY do not need the "wow, this sucks, let me rant on it" topics either. I think we have WAY to many boards geared towards the off-topic-section, we really only need CT and OD.

Another point that I want to make is the fact that some fan games here give motivation on their own (Shadowgazer, Petrified Realm), but this motivation is usually diminshed when a user needs a team and tries to get one. People usually post things like "Dude, get a better story" or "So, a story? that is all you have?" in most Recruitment topics. It seems like there is an imaginary rule stating that a user must have a full blown engine, GFX, and SFX to be able to get a team going.

Now, sometimes the user is like "OK I'll write the story and tell you what I want, you just have to sprite/program ad all of the other things" and quickly gets flamed. There should be a rule on this also.

If there are rules on those 2 issues, they need to be enforced.

The main problem I see with the tutorial is they give no concept towards how to plan to make a game, just how to program. 

The first lesson should always be towards making a team and forming a concept not how to set up XNA and so forth.

Another problem is when users post an engine or some code, but do not explain it.

For The Swarm (StarCraft II Zerg strategy)

I whip my hair back n forth

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[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Pyzazor:

I was more thinking along the lines of if people are still going to be a little lost, at least they would be lost in something a little better.  I speak from the vantage of a programmer as that is what I mostly identify myself with being and such things would have helped me early on. 

Team building and forming a concept are good as well, and these do not come into conflict with what I said, in fact, they complement each other.  Delegation of tasks, working with others, etc. are good things that would help projects get more progress.  Forming a concept would be good as some of the bad game concepts on here tend to sift into shitty fan-fiction with stereotypical, generic Zelda stuff that makes the fan game itself seem even more unoriginal.

Xiphirx:

Essentially, one of the reasons for wanting an even stronger resource system is to stop all the multiple and huge requests for graphics that keep coming up by people working on their games.  That just irks me when people make requests all the time.  Having more of what people need and more of what certain people make requests over would tame down a little bit some of the negative requests or would make such requests unnecessary.

[DJvenom]

DJvenom

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Now, sometimes the user is like "OK I'll write the story and tell you what I want, you just have to sprite/program ad all of the other things" and quickly gets flamed. There should be a rule on this also.

This is fine if the person doesn't come across immaturely like "Hey, im makin this game, but i need a programmer a spriter a music maker, and someone to rip me sprites, and someone to make sfx." Because that makes it appear as though he basically wants a team to do his dirty work and will then take all the credit. Plus most people are turned off by a pre-set story as opposed to a rough idea that everyone can grind into a working one.

The best way to come across as a story-writer for a game is to state "Hey, I've written this story for a game." as opposed to basically; "I'm making a game, but know 0 about making it, and don't wanna learn how to. So I'm hiring people to do it for me."

Story-writers need critiques. This is just my personal opinion, but if someone says they have a story, I'd be more willing to make the story come to fruition, so long as they were willing to allow me to ad-lib it.

Essentially, one of the reasons for wanting an even stronger resource system is to stop all the multiple and huge requests for graphics that keep coming up by people working on their games.  That just irks me when people make requests all the time.  Having more of what people need and more of what certain people make requests over would tame down a little bit some of the negative requests or would make such requests unnecessary.

One down-side to the resource system is lack of approval from admins/mods. Sure they can remove them, but there should be some sort of filter. There are so many graphics and sounds on there which appear to just be uploaded so the uploader can access spam board, or be able to hotlink. Personal character sprites, and the like shouldn't really be allowed since noone else is going to use a sheet of characters you drew for your own personal project.

I do art

I ermmm... DID do art

I do art

[Pyrazor]

Pyrazor

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

This is fine if the person doesn't come across immaturely like "Hey, im makin this game, but i need a programmer a spriter a music maker, and someone to rip me sprites, and someone to make sfx." Because that makes it appear as though he basically wants a team to do his dirty work and will then take all the credit. Plus most people are turned off by a pre-set story as opposed to a rough idea that everyone can grind into a working one.

I agree with that 100% DJ and really, it should be encouraged more.

I C'Z U

[Xiphirx]

Xiphirx

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Topics such as "How to plan your Zelda games" should be advertised here, not stickied in a board.

I also want to suggest:

When a user says "Search the forum", I start to laugh. That search function is a joke. We need a better one (this could also decrease the number of GFX/engine/SFX requests).

Heck, ZFGC should get another tab "Development". This tab should be divided into sections GM, C++ etc and should contain useful USEFUL information. TRM's "How to plan your Zelda games out" should go there and Goodnight's sound collection as well. Basically, all of the helpful topics should be sorted there. Windy's VBA ripper is something that not many people know about, and would be great to advertise in the "Development" section.

For The Swarm (StarCraft II Zerg strategy)

I whip my hair back n forth

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[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Well higher standards wouldn't hurt; anything taken from another site that is well-known and hosting on here needs to be removed as it benefits no one really.  Being able to filter the graphics into MC, LTTP, GB, etc. styles for Zelda graphics would be helpful; anything else could go under an Other or Misc filter.  And yeah, lumping common things into one resource page would help with organization a bit.  Ease of use with the site's navigation would make it a little more professional in my opinion.

Xiphirx:

I think that a development tab already exists in the form of a templates and a tutorials tab.  These could probably get filtering options though like I mentioned with the Graphics resources above, which could do what you are proposing.  Then again, meh, I don't know. 

[Xiphirx]

Xiphirx

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Well higher standards wouldn't hurt; anything taken from another site that is well-known and hosting on here needs to be removed as it benefits no one really.  Being able to filter the graphics into MC, LTTP, GB, etc. styles for Zelda graphics would be helpful; anything else could go under an Other or Misc filter.  And yeah, lumping common things into one resource page would help with organization a bit.  Ease of use with the site's navigation would make it a little more professional in my opinion.

Xiphirx:

I think that a development tab already exists in the form of a templates and a tutorials tab.  These could probably get filtering options though like I mentioned with the Graphics resources above, which could do what you are proposing.  Then again, meh, I don't know. 

The title "Templates and tutorials" does not really give the same connotation as "development".

The "Developement" tab will contain all of the useful information on ZFGC pertaining to game development.

For The Swarm (StarCraft II Zerg strategy)

I whip my hair back n forth

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[Wasabi]

Wasabi

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Because this is a fan gaming forum, another thing that should happen is that Windy's tool for ripping animations should be worked with and put to use in ripping animations for the community and organizing them for the site itself as well.  Most of the developers here program and are too lazy to get some of the resources, so this would help them out.

I was going to rip heaps of sprites from the mininsh cap to upload here about a month ago after I saw how easy it was in one of his "/insert self advertisment for VBA ripper." posts. The sprites were laid out perfectly, with the right frame counts and everything.
However after actually using the program I found out there was nowhere to select that would make it lay the sprites out like that, and after finding out it was a seperate program, I got a little disheartened.
In short, please release that program windy .

Anyway, if we have seperate teams I think that it would be a great idea to have progress from their projects put into the weekly. It would help attract interest to the projects and possibly more team members.

Your community is a bunch of stuck up turds.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Yeah, I tried using the tracker and wasn't able to do it correctly, but it was promising.  If I have time over Christmas break I will see if I can get into working with it more.

In terms of the Weekly, the way I see it, it mainly serves as a news item for what happened in the previous week.  It has aspects of development in it in regard to the weekly awards and the downgraded featured project, but that is about it.

For community projects themselves, hypothetically I saw them just getting their own updates individually.  If there were more than one community project, there could also be a roundup every week or two over all the updates that occurred.  I am trying to not restrict the News to just being based around the Weekly.  Separate coverage would get more interest, in my opinion, and having the news spread out would make it easier to process.

[Jeod]

Jeod

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

This forum needs less bitching and more action.

Great ideas! I can't really put in effort to get them going because I'm just an average member, but hey, if it works for everyone else then it's good, right?

"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
___________________________________

Zelda GBC+ Engine for Multimedia Fusion 2

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[Starforsaken101]

Starforsaken101

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Team building and forming a concept are good as well, and these do not come into conflict with what I said, in fact, they complement each other.  Delegation of tasks, working with others, etc. are good things that would help projects get more progress.  Forming a concept would be good as some of the bad game concepts on here tend to sift into shitty fan-fiction with stereotypical, generic Zelda stuff that makes the fan game itself seem even more unoriginal.

I have never developed a fan Zelda game (although at some point I do plan on it when I'm not quite as busy, which may never come to be considering the list of stuff I have to do). May I suggest some simple concepts of Software Engineering? I'm not sure if these would help for planning, but there really is like, quite a bit of stuff to know for planning and maintaining a software system that could potentially help for developing a game, such as requirements specifications, class/sequence diagrams, etc.

If that sounded completely stupid and unrelated to developing Zelda fan games, then just ignore what I said. Just trying to help .

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[Jeod]

Jeod

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Tech Talk seems to be used quite a bit, so I'd give that idea some thought.

On another subject, what of the current community project? I have thought of reviving it, and in the process learn to use GM.

"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
___________________________________

Zelda GBC+ Engine for Multimedia Fusion 2

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[Pyrazor]

Pyrazor

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

It's not much a community project anymore so much of a project that actually had a somewhat coordinated team behind it but now it's just dead which is why the administration doesn't really support.

Again, this is why I suggest that all coordinated projects with a reasonable goal be given a board.  A single thread isn't enough to balance between the project's various needs, team communication, and input from regular members. 

Not only does is structure it so games are more likely to succeed from the get go, but it puts more pressure on the team to not let the project die in addition to give members other things to look to.

The concept behind the community project only serves to set up one coordinated team with a shot at finishing a game.  I don't see why it can't be expanded to many projects in the manner I suggested in my first post. 

I C'Z U

[Walnut]

Walnut

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Lets try to keep talk about the community project on the community project board, it isn't really relevant to this atm <_<

ROLL TIDE WHAT? **** YOU!!! Geaux Tiga

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

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[Vash]

Vash

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Just a note. I plan on a more extensive reply. I wanted to sit back and see input before I gave any final comments on the direction of the forum itself.

I agree with the majority of what Pyra said, as he has quoted me in his original post, it's something I've thought about and said before in the past.

I think what I'm going to do is come up with a list of things based on these discussions, and from there perhaps myself (and a few select people who have been vocal in this topic) can sit down and discuss ways to implement the ideas..

Mammy also has a rather large list of short-term goals and long-term goals. I'd like to combine the efforts of the management and the -users- to find a resolve so we know what direction to head in. I know what my goals are for the forum and I know some users don't agree with them, but for the people that do, those are the people we need to be working with to ensure we get done what needs to be done to get this place on track.

I'll be off work in about 30 minutes, then a 30 to 45 minute bus ride follows.. so I hope to start compiling a list sometime tonight.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Xiphirx]

Xiphirx

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Just a note. I plan on a more extensive reply. I wanted to sit back and see input before I gave any final comments on the direction of the forum itself.

I agree with the majority of what Pyra said, as he has quoted me in his original post, it's something I've thought about and said before in the past.

I think what I'm going to do is come up with a list of things based on these discussions, and from there perhaps myself (and a few select people who have been vocal in this topic) can sit down and discuss ways to implement the ideas..

Mammy also has a rather large list of short-term goals and long-term goals. I'd like to combine the efforts of the management and the -users- to find a resolve so we know what direction to head in. I know what my goals are for the forum and I know some users don't agree with them, but for the people that do, those are the people we need to be working with to ensure we get done what needs to be done to get this place on track.

I'll be off work in about 30 minutes, then a 30 to 45 minute bus ride follows.. so I hope to start compiling a list sometime tonight.

#1: Need to remove the hidden porn database

For The Swarm (StarCraft II Zerg strategy)

I whip my hair back n forth

• 

[Jeod]

Jeod

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Just a note. I plan on a more extensive reply. I wanted to sit back and see input before I gave any final comments on the direction of the forum itself.

I agree with the majority of what Pyra said, as he has quoted me in his original post, it's something I've thought about and said before in the past.

I think what I'm going to do is come up with a list of things based on these discussions, and from there perhaps myself (and a few select people who have been vocal in this topic) can sit down and discuss ways to implement the ideas..

Mammy also has a rather large list of short-term goals and long-term goals. I'd like to combine the efforts of the management and the -users- to find a resolve so we know what direction to head in. I know what my goals are for the forum and I know some users don't agree with them, but for the people that do, those are the people we need to be working with to ensure we get done what needs to be done to get this place on track.

I'll be off work in about 30 minutes, then a 30 to 45 minute bus ride follows.. so I hope to start compiling a list sometime tonight.

#1: Need to remove the hidden porn database

#2: Need to remove the backup porn database

"You should challenge your fates. When all else fails, you can still die fighting." ~Yune
___________________________________

Zelda GBC+ Engine for Multimedia Fusion 2

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[Vash]

Vash

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Wait, there's a hidden porn database?

DAMMIT DANTHEMAN :|


--

Anyway This topic will continue when I'm done with the bathroom >.>

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100

[Xiphirx]

Xiphirx

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Wait, there's a hidden porn database?

DAMMIT DANTHEMAN :|


--

Anyway This topic will continue when I'm done with the bathroom >.>

Infini told me ALL about it

For The Swarm (StarCraft II Zerg strategy)

I whip my hair back n forth

• 

[Vash]

Vash

Re: How to better orient the forum towards fan g...

Alright, I made a list of what I gathered from the topic. I had Pyra read it over and he saw no disagreement in what I made...

Here's that list:

#1 - Tutorials
#2 - Project Boards for Teams
#3 - Establishment of -site- Staff.
#4 - Continue and improve ZFGC 'produced' things, such as the Weekly
#5 - Requirements for posting tutorials/code examples


Out of that list, here is my 'list' of things that should be discussed further and reviewed for implementation.


#1 - Website; How to organize it and intergrate it into the forums better, this includes changes to boards and the concept of team boards and 'group' projects.

#2 - Organization of Site and Journalistic Staff; staffers to manage resource/turotiral moderation and approval and 'production' and contest management.

#3 - Requirements for Resource Posting; A list of requirements which must be fullfilled before posting resources. (If a person posts a code sample for example, explaining the functionality and documentation of the sample should be fully explained) Essentially, Quality Assurence for Resources.

I have not decided yet how we'll work towards implementing these things. I think I'd ideally like to have a new board created where we can discuss these things, come up with an initial idea of how we can implement it then go from there..

A few people have told me to plan less, but some input from actual developers (as I am not one) will be helpful to insight how I want to do things. And it wont be weeks and weeks of discussion.. just a few quick stern ideas on how to resolve some quick goals and crap out some development ideas to Infi.

~The Gaurdians of ZFGC~
Kirby, metallica48423, Max, Vash, walnut100