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Author Topic: Story Pass:THIRD ACT  (Read 4468 times)

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Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« on: February 19, 2013, 03:54:39 pm »
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Alright, here is where we'll be discussing the Zora arc of the story.

Currently we know that the high members of the Zora family are kidnapped and are at war with the Zolas...and uhh...that's it.

And this is what the wiki says about Zoras:

Quote
The traders of Hyrule, they have been responsible for maintaining the water passageways. They house their cog in the Lake Hylia Temple ,their most sacred grounds. They are stuck in a conflict with the River Zolas, who have kidnapped the heirs and invaded Lake Hylia
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 04:18:37 pm »
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So, once this is solved, will you be reviewing the thing of the Zorkas?
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 05:28:46 pm »
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They'll be considered as we develop this.  Seems like an easy fit for this part of the story, though.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 07:56:46 pm »
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So I have some questions that we probably should think about when defining the zora arc:
~Why are they at war with each other?
~How are we going to transition into this arc
~Who kidnapped the high members of the zora family
~any issues among themselves


I have some thoughts though I'm going to have organise them before I post them here.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 09:47:17 pm »
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We know that the royal family members were kidnapped by the Zolas.  I'm not sure if we discussed why they were at war, I'll have to check.

EDIT: Nope, we didn't.  From the looks of it, we made Zoras traders and waterway maintainers.  Perhaps we could play off this, something like the Zolas wanted control of Zora's Domain?  Those who control the water ways control trade among Hyrule.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 01:06:23 pm »
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I don't think the Zolas are smart enough to want control of a area for trade. They're kinda just monsters like moblins, or if they aren't, we should define that right off the bat.

I was thinking something like maybe the Zora built a trading post dock thing over a confluence sacred to the Zola, or perhaps the Zora or Hylians built a bridge/dam in that altered the river's flow, and now the Zola need new territory because their old territory got messed up.

I also had the idea that the water temple belonged to the Zola instead of the Zora, perhaps the cog was given to the tribe before they split into civilized and uncivilized? But the Zora see the island created by the way temple's roof is a great place fore a trading post and they come in and try to colonize. The Zola obviously don't want this.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 10:59:30 pm »
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Maybe they could have a conflict dating back to their origins? A your diety is wrong mine is right kind of thing
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 11:15:03 pm »
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I like the MG's of the Deity conflict. I'd assume the Zola's deity would be their Deity of War, Sacrifice and Competition.
If that be so, what'd we have the Zora's deity be as?

I also think that the temple idea could be a good addition, make it so there was more of a spark for the war, making the Zola feel that the Zora crossed the line too far.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 03:46:10 pm »
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They could also be attacking the temple with the intent of removing the Zora Diety and putting their own in place, which could be the temple boss.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 05:58:53 pm »
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Conflict of religion would work, as would conflict of territory. Do we have any other ideas? I'm interested to see what Niek has to say, he's had some pretty well developed ideas for the other parts of the game.
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THIRD Chapter
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 06:19:46 pm »
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Let me first say this. You most likely mean third Chapter, because the third act kinda starts from the moment that Link decides to go to the final dungeon to defeat Ganon. The third act is the hero's resolve, where he finally overcomes his shortcomings. Acts and chapters are different. Each good story always has 3 acts, but can have an arbitrary number of chapters.

Okay, now let me get back to the point. This is my idea about the Zora part:

The Zola
Instead of making them river Zola, may be they are Zola from a far away land. They are something like the Vikings in Europe's past. They have come to Hyrule (up the river) to plunder and pillage everything. Because the Zora's look similar and are also aquatic creatures the Zola see the Zora as the biggest thread. The Zola have put up their stronghold downstream in River Valley near the entrance to Lake Hylia. Effectively blocking access to Lake Hylia for everyone.



Story
This the story I thought up with the above idea for the Zola. Before going immediately to the Zora area, it is probably better for Link to go back to Castle Town for some story bits. This also shows the player that there is an opportunity to take up sidequests in Castle Town and interact with with the gang and other people.

First Link goes back to the Gerudo King. The King tells Link that he found out about the possible locations for 2 more cogs from the Castle Library. These cogs were taken into care by a Zora and a Goron family. Link should visit them for the cogs. If Link tries to go to Goron Mountain he finds his way blocked due to a landslide. Some Gorons are working on clearing the path.

Link can also not go to the inner part of Zora's Domain yet, because he cannot swim. Zora's Domain inner part where the Zora have retreated is only reachable through swimming as this gives better protection against enemies and especially land monsters. (I know the GDD says the flippers are granted to Link by the Zora royalty, but bare with me for now)

In Castle Town Link meets a Distressed Deku Merchant, who tells Link that Zola bandits robbed him of his merchandise. Seeing that Link has a sword he asks him for help. Link sets out to get the merchandise back from the Zola. Link finds the Zola raiding party that stole the merchandise and defeats them. As Link picks up the merchandise he is attacked by another party and a Huge Zola, who is apparently their leader. The Zola leader knocks Link out cold. As Link passes out the leader orders his men to leave Link alone, because they just caught a more valuable price (a reference to the kidnapped royal children) that they need to haul back quickly.

As Link wakes up he returns the merchandise to the Deku merchant in Castle Town. The merchant is so gratefull that he offers Link his stuff for a reduced price. Among the stuff is a pair of flippers the merchant wanted to sell to a rich guy for 10.000 ruppees, but he is willing to give it to Link for merely 100 ruppees. The flippers were created by a Goron who wanted to visit the Zora once, but once he finished the flippers it seems that they were to small to keep a Goron afloat.

Link buys the flippers and can now swim to Zora's Domain to meet the Zora King. Zora tell him about the tragedy that has befallen them and that they can no longer go to there sacred place in Lake Hylia to pray for a good ending. One of the Zola Raiding parties under the Zola leader succeeded in kidnapping the Zora royal children and bring them to the Zola stronghold near the entrance to Lake Hylia. They are ransoming them, but the Zora are proud and the King is scared that they will ransom more or even get killed anyway. In addition is the plundering of the Zola also a big problem for the traders traveling through River Valley.

Eventually Link is asked by the Zora King to use his thieving skills to sneak through the back into the Zola's stronghold and rescue the kidnapped children. If Link incidentally defeats their leader in the process it will be a benefit. Link goes to rescue the children, but gets caught by the Zola leader. This time Link defeats him and the Zola scatter. The Zora warriors then enter the stronghold to get the children back. After this it will be more quiet, but there will still be Zola raiding party around.

Link can then continue to Lake Hylia. Somewhere in Lake Hylia Link sees a large patch of Ice. On the shore is a hut of the smithy brother Sheldon. He tells Link the story about some ancient devices along Lake Hylia 's shore that can raise the Temple's entrance above water level. He knows of one such device, but has never been able to successfully raise the Temple entrance, so he thinks there are more such devices.

Link sets out to find the (3) devices. At the first device he meets Maple, who was told the same by the ancient hero. She uses her magic on the device to turn it on, but accidentally destroys it. Link asks Sheldon's help to fix it. Sheldon can fix it, but he requires materials which were difficult to get due to the Zola blockade. Link has to get materials from various areas in Hyrule.

After Link brings him the materials, Sheldon starts fixing the device. Link will look for the second device. After he turns on the second device and emerges from the hidden cave, Link is attacked by some Zola. They want revenge on Link for defeating their leader.

For the third device Link has to find a dive spot next to Lake Hylia's cliffs. Diving in this spot, makes Link emerge in a hidden underground cavern where the third device is. Once Link emerges from this cave, Sheldon turns on the first device and the entrance to Temple will burst out through the ice spot, leaving only a small spot of Ice for Link to climb on and Link to enter the dungeon. However Maple flies in before him.

Inside the dungeon Link will meet Maple again, where she has been knocked out cold by the mini-boss of the temple. She will be out cold and seeing stars until Link has left the temple with the cog.


I like the MG's of the Deity conflict. I'd assume the Zola's deity would be their Deity of War, Sacrifice and Competition.
If that be so, what'd we have the Zora's deity be as?

I also think that the temple idea could be a good addition, make it so there was more of a spark for the war, making the Zola feel that the Zora crossed the line too far.

I think you might be carefull with naming deities to abstract ideals and such. In every Zelda game there are three Goddesses as the highest deities in Hyrule. There are some lower deities, but they primarily guardians of a race or land. Such as Jabu Jabu, Deku Tree, Valloo and so on.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 08:55:12 pm by Zaeranos »
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 03:27:49 pm »
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Quote
The King tells Link that he found out about the possible locations for 2 more cogs from the Castle Library.

I'd suggest making this one cog for now and making it two for the Goron and Shiekah arcs.  Reason being is the mountains and desert are so close to each other, the player is intended to go from one directly to the other.

There are a few other silly things, in particular why would a Goron want to see the Zoras?  They know very well that they'll sink like rocks in water, even with a pair of flippers.

I also again like in the Deku/Kokiri arc, don'twant to give the player too much to do.  Having them fight the Zolas first to go and then rescue the royal family after seems like a lot, especially considering we'd already have given them the flippers.

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THIRD Chapter
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 06:54:30 pm »
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Quote
The King tells Link that he found out about the possible locations for 2 more cogs from the Castle Library.

I'd suggest making this one cog for now and making it two for the Goron and Shiekah arcs.  Reason being is the mountains and desert are so close to each other, the player is intended to go from one directly to the other.
Actually, I was thinking of having Link get the location of the 4th Cog from another source. There was some mention of resolving Maple's story with the Gorons. I was thinking that in order to get to the 4th cog the ancient Hero would turn to Link, because he has the other three already. And then convince Link of giving up the cogs.


There are a few other silly things, in particular why would a Goron want to see the Zoras?  They know very well that they'll sink like rocks in water, even with a pair of flippers.
That one was intentionally silly, but it doesn't have to be in the game. We could also make it that a Goron made it but then considered that Gorons would simply sink. Even with flippers  XD


I also again like in the Deku/Kokiri arc, don'twant to give the player too much to do.  Having them fight the Zolas first to go and then rescue the royal family after seems like a lot, especially considering we'd already have given them the flippers.
Considering the story between the start of the game and the first dungeon this is rather short.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 08:55:34 pm by Zaeranos »
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 03:49:49 pm »
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I actually really like the story you have, Niek! I do have so issues, but to address what MG said:

I completely disagree that giving the player the locations of two cogs at once is too much. In MC, you got all 4 elements marked on your map at the beginning, although you could only access one at a time due to items being necessary to traverse the map. Link can find out that the next cog is with the Gorons but still have to return to Hyrule town to make it possible to get to the mountains. I think marking both at once is fine and gives the player more of an opportunity to explore and discover which he has to do first, rather than being like "go here, then go here, then go here" dictated by the designers.

About the silliness of the Goron wanting to see the Zora and therefore making flippers, I think it's wonderfully silly, because it's a completely nonessential part of the game. We can make it a tidbit you can discover talking to some NPC, I like it.

Uh, more to say, but I gotta run off to work! Sushi to roll and all that!
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 03:58:22 pm »
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Well not that I was saying 2 cogs at once is too much, but I thought it would be better to give them 2 cog locations starting with the Gorons.  Since the mountains lead directly to the valley of death, I thought this would be a more sensible place to give 2 locations.  But hey, whatever works, right?
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 10:28:43 pm »
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Yeah, that's a valid point too. Maybe being told all 3 would work best? Honestly, I think this is a pretty small point, we can worry about it later, probably.

As for the Zora part, I like most of what you've come up with, Niek, a lot! I think giving Link a lead to go on inside Hyrule Town is a great idea. I think it might be a good idea to speak to the noticeability of the Deku merchant, perhaps he has a wagon or something just inside the city gates, or just outside? We probably want to make sure the player notices him, although I don't think forcing the interaction is necessary, just noticing that he's there and wasn't before should do it. Also, where will this skirmish with the Zola raiding party take place?

Anyway, what I was mainly thinking was that everything you have here seems like too much before the dungeon? Like, everything through going into the Zola fort and rescuing the Zora royalty seems good, and so does finding out that there are ancient mechanisms, but then having to leave, collect items to fix stuff, then reach the mechanisms seems like a lot. I don't think the player should need to leave after finding the mechanisms.

Perhaps the player could simply talk to Sheldon, who tells Link about the mechanisms, then Link activates them. Maybe battles Maple before activating the final one?
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 01:50:33 am »
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Yea, I was weary about going all around Hyrule to find parts for the mechanisms.  Maybe there could be an optional 4th mechanism that could use that for a sidequest?

I'd say activating the 3 with a small puzzle for each and then fighting Maple would suffice.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2013, 03:34:09 pm »
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I agree, Steve, what do you think Niek?

So to sum it up, we have?:

After the Deku arc, Link goes back to Castle Town.

He meets a deku merchant whose goods were stolen by Zola.

Link hunts down the Zola (where?) and defeats some, but is defeated by their captain. They leave him and the merchant's goods to pursue the Zora royals, though.

Link returns the Deku merchant's goods, and the Deku will sell Link flippers.

Link can now swim, so he explores the Zora area, finds out that the royalty has been kidnapped and taken to the Zola fort.

He goes to the Zola fort and sneaks in, freeing the Zola royals and defeating the Zola captain. The Zola leave their fort, which is then taken over by Zora troops.

Link can now get into Lake Hylia, where Sheldon resides, studying the ancient mechanisms and inner workings of the lakebed temple. Link can activate ancient mechanisms which will open the door of the temple. When he activates the last one, he is attacked and fights off Maple.

Link can then enter the next temple.



Any ideas on incorporating the overarching story a little bit more here? Maybe showing that the Hero's shade is trying to have Maple collect the cogs and doesn't want Link to?
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2013, 09:08:53 pm »
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Ok so one or two things:

The location of the Zolas that Link is hunting down should probably be near the Castle Town somewhere.  They couldn't have gotten that far after stealing the goods.

As for the Zola fort.  What do you think of having maybe 3 of them along the river?  Link would have to travel the river in order to free the captive family members.
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Re: Story Pass:THIRD ACT
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2013, 09:10:41 pm »
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I don't think there'd be many forts along the river, but maybe a some war camps and then the last one being a fort would work.
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