Hello Guest, please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Plot hole?  (Read 1719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Plot hole?
« on: July 11, 2015, 02:18:40 am »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
So, I was gathering all the bits of story from the six acts because there's some holes we discussed that didn't get ported anywhere on the wiki that I could find. Speaking of which, I'm not sure if I have the like, authority to edit the wiki plot page to include the revised stuff we came up with and get everything into one place, because we've basically overwritten some stuff that would be kind of erased if I updated it to have the newer story stuff.

Anyway, I was going through it and found a bit of a hole. Ganondorf tells Link the Gorons and Zora have two cogs after he has the Deku cog, but Ganondorf doesn't tell Link the last cog is with the shiekah. He says he thinks it's with the royal family.

One, does anyone remember why we had this happening? Why Ganondorf didn't just say, "the rest of the cogs are with the Goron, Zora, and Sheikah tribes."?

Two, idea I had, maybe the Hylian royalty legitimately did have the last cog. Link comes back from the Gorons and Ganondorf tells him the cog is somewhere in the castle. Meanwhile, Zelda is onto them. She's taken the cog from it's hiding place and is involved in shipping it off to the Sheikah. Link goes through the castle to find the place the cog was hidden, but when he gets to the room Zelda is leaving with the cog. He runs out onto a balcony and sees Zelda handing the package off to a Sheikah warrior. Ganondorf decides their only option is for Link to head to the Sheikah tribe and steal the cog from them. Commence Link heading to death valley.
Logged
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2015, 02:01:33 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything.
  • *
  • Reputation: +41/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6946
You should be able to edit the wiki, let me know if you can't find the edit button or something.

As for the hole, if I remember right I THINK after you get the 3rd cog, Ganondorf contacts Link somehow (through an item or something, I don't remember) and tells him the Sheikah have it.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2015, 02:49:08 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
Huh. Well, I don't see any reason Ganon shouldn't just let Link know this when he tells him where the. Goron and Zora cogs are. Especially since I don't think there is an item for him to contact Link. And this is the only time he'd need to, and there's no justification I can find for him to keep it a secret this long.
Logged
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2015, 03:16:57 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything.
  • *
  • Reputation: +41/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6946
It looks like we were talking about this but never came to a final decision.  There's a few posts about it here:

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=40466.msg442402#msg442402
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 04:50:26 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
Cool, looked all that over. I think we've got two options.

1) Ganon just tells Link where all 3 remaining cogs are after the Deku one. Goron, Zora, Sheikah. Link can go back to town between them if he wants. This leaves the most exploration, least guidance, I think.

2) If we stick to Ganon thinking the cog was with the Royal Family, we might as well add a dramatic kind of event when he goes back to get that one. Like he goes into the throne room and Zelda is giving the cog to a Sheikah, and she sees Link and calls the guards, he has to use agility/stealth to escape, then try to sneak into the Sheikah stronghold. Which, there, he gets caught and thrown out, meets the Hero's Shade, goes to the desert, etc.

Goron Mountain and the Valley of Death are pretty much next to Hyrule town anyway, we aren't necessarily saving much time by going directly to the valley anyway, and Link can knock out some sidequests back in town, reunite with some of his gang, etc.


So the first option is simpler, the second one adds a bit more hassle, but excitement. We should just pick one or the other. Probably the game will get finished a bit more quickly if we don't need to make a scene of Link sneaking through Hyrule Castle, but it would be fun :p


Also, I was looking back through topics when we were discussing the fungus in the Deku Swamp and I was going on about the root systems of fungal species like and said "My girlfriend's way into mushrooms so I'm all about them by association", and everyone thought I was talking about psychedelics and I TOTALLY didn't get it. She was studying Organismal Biology and focusing on Mycology, trying to study luciferace enzymes in a certain species and the drug references just went totally over my head. Lol. I thought that was really funny. Oh Max from two years ago...
Logged
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 06:07:02 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything.
  • *
  • Reputation: +41/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6946
Yea option two we'll have to rearrange Hyrule Field a bit (not that we ever decided on a finalized design).  Currently the only way into the Valley of Death is through Goron Mountain.  Or we could just make the entrance to the valley not so deep into the mountain so they don't have to backtrack aaall the way there
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 04:52:23 am »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
Well, Hyrule Field already borders the valley of death. There's no story reason for the only way into the valley to be through the Goron mountain that I can see, I think it'd make everything simpler if we just made it connect to the field, regardless. Then the player would be more inclined to visit Hyrule town in between the Goron and Sheikah areas, which there will probably be sidequests to do anyway.

That being said, we set it up so Link would have to sneak back into the Castle if he comes back after he talks to Ganon before the Zora area. If there's no reason to come back between any other dungeons, there's not much point in setting this whole "you'll have to sneak past the guards!" thing. So I guess I'd vote make Link come back thinking the last cog is with the royal family. Then we have more plot going to at Hyrule Town, more chance to reunite Link with his hang, access to sidequests throughout, etc.. And the only downsides are having to keep this in mind when designing the field and mountain (so basically, changing nothing :p  ), and having to add in a bit more stealth, but we should probably have the steal mechanisms in place from other parts of the game anyway.)


There's different ways Link finding out the cog has been moved to the Sheikah, too. He could meet Ganon at the room where he thinks the cog is hidden but it's gone, it's a mystery they have to figure out where it went (stealthily stealing letters?).

Or similar, but they could see a Sheikah taking it (more action- try to chase the Sheikah).

Or Link could arrive at the castle, sneak in, and Ganon could just tell him outright that it was moved, the game's gonna be longer, kid.

Maybe Ganon could say he's found the cog's location in the castle, and the two of them go to get it, Ganon creates a goofy diversion and Link opens a chest and- oh! It's gone!

Maybe Link sneaks into the room where it should be, finds it missing, turns around and Zelda is there! She tells Link she's on to him, look I can tell you've got a good heart but you shouldn't be stealing from the royal family. This Gerudo King is trying to destroy the balance of Hyrule, you shouldn't be following him. I'm going to give you one chance to get out of here and turn your life around or something.
...oh, but then how would they know where the cog went?

Maybe they find the cog's chamber, but as Link or both of them enter, they see a Sheikah opening the chest and taking the cog. "Oh no, they stole it first!", and we just get a hint now or later that Zelda actually ordered the Sheikah to take it.

Anyway, there's a bunch of ways this could go, that's enough brainstorming for now, haha.
Logged
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2015, 12:12:11 am »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
So! I was going to wiki this big long doc culled from the posts of story we figured out to update some plot stuff, and I realized we still haven't answered this quite. So, I'm gonna lay down the law a little. If anyone thinks there's a better way to do this, or has any issues or whatever, speak now, otherwise we'll just go with this.

When Link comes back to the castle after the Goron dungeon, he sneaks into the Gerudo King's chambers. He is greeted and complimented on his success on finding the first three cogs. The king believes he's discovered the location of the final cog within the castle, through a secret passage somewhere or something. He gives Link the approximate location, saying that he will be following right behind Link, but they should both avoid being seen.

Link sneaks through the castle, Ganon following him and occasionally causing distractions for guards or pushing down items or stuff Link needs from a higher point down to where Link is, that kind of thing. They eventually reach a door with a triforce mark above it and Ganon pauses before walking in. "Strange-" he says. "But no matter." Link walks up to the big chest and opens it to reveal... nothing.

"What!?" The Gerudo king shouts. He looks in the chest himself and thinks for a moment. Quickly, he realizes that someone must have realized their intentions. "One of the royal family must be trying to prevent us from finding the triforce and uniting our people. They sent the cog off, but where?..." He paces up the room, pauses at a window facing north. "Link, to the north lies the valley of death. At the end of those treacherous lands lies the fortress of the Royal Family's servants, the Sheikah. They must have sent the cog there for safe keeping. You must travel to the fortress of those oppressors." He walks back toward the door. "However, Link... the Sheikah keep the path to the desert, home of my people. The desert is inhospitable and deadly. Avoid its sands at all costs."

With this new information, Link heads north to the valley of death.



So unless that seems like we should do something else, that's what'll happen.
Logged

Miles07

Knight of ERA
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 10:46:26 am »
  • Long live the Chaos!!
  • *
  • Reputation: +12/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 561
Well, SPOILERS, Max. >:I

J.k.
Logged
I was talking to my friend last night, and he was mentioning about how in 1980, he thought the internet would become this amazing place where people from across the world would share ideas. I was telling him about how this project [KOT] has worked, lurching along for years and drawn by different people from across the globe, and he thought it was beautiful. And he was right, it's awesome. :D

Zelda Items Spritesheet album - (link here)
A Link Across Time project - (link here)

Take part in the Zelda Timeline discussion here!

Click here for a possible project on the ZFGC Wiki. Please support!
  • My deviantArt
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2015, 12:55:47 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything.
  • *
  • Reputation: +41/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6946
One problem I see with that is from the wiki on the Shiekah:

Quote
He meets with the elders, however they obviously won't let Link anywhere near the cog since they know to protect it. They also think that there is no danger in Hyrule, since the Gerudo are still kept out.

If they don't think Hyrule is in danger, why would they take the cog?  Is there something in that doc that contradicts this?
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie

Miles07

Knight of ERA
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2015, 03:14:18 pm »
  • Long live the Chaos!!
  • *
  • Reputation: +12/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 561
Perhaps they think Hyrule is in no danger because they hold the cog, so nobody could get past them to grab it? Maybe the Gerudo King's source had bad/misleading information. (Maple?)
Logged
I was talking to my friend last night, and he was mentioning about how in 1980, he thought the internet would become this amazing place where people from across the world would share ideas. I was telling him about how this project [KOT] has worked, lurching along for years and drawn by different people from across the globe, and he thought it was beautiful. And he was right, it's awesome. :D

Zelda Items Spritesheet album - (link here)
A Link Across Time project - (link here)

Take part in the Zelda Timeline discussion here!

Click here for a possible project on the ZFGC Wiki. Please support!
  • My deviantArt
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2015, 04:28:41 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +17/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1341
One problem I see with that is from the wiki on the Shiekah:

Quote
He meets with the elders, however they obviously won't let Link anywhere near the cog since they know to protect it. They also think that there is no danger in Hyrule, since the Gerudo are still kept out.

If they don't think Hyrule is in danger, why would they take the cog?  Is there something in that doc that contradicts this?

Good catch. Couple ways to resolve that that. I can think of.

1. They only THINK there's no danger in Hyrule, obviously there is some, but they're part of the perpetuation of the aristocracy. We could make it so when Link gets to the Sheikah, they don't think moving the cog was necessary, but they did it because they were told to (by Zelda).

2. When Link gets back to the castle,  Ganon tells him the cog was moved long ago, and they don't go on their little scavenger hunt. But I feel like the weakness of this option is that Link goes back to the castle and sneaks in and... Nothing really HAPPENS, he just gets more exposition. Idea, maybe Link would need to steal a key to enter the valley of death, hidden somewhere in the castle. That scenario would go something like:

Link gets back from the Goron mines and finds the Gerudo King once again. The king compliments Link on his acquisition of the first three cogs, and informs him of his recent research in the Library's archives. It seems that long ago, the cog was sent to the Royal Family's servants, the Sheikah, for safe keeping. The Sheikah have long been the enemies of the king's people, the Gerudo, and are the instruments of their oppression. For hundreds of years, they've guarded the only pass from the desert to Hyrule, trapping the Gerudo in those dusty lands and fighting them to maintain Hyrule's hold over their welfare. But to enter the valley, they'll need to find they key to its gate. The Gerudo king suspects that it's kept in the castle's artifact room, perhaps Link can find a way into it through the dungeon, as the dungeon adjoins it. Once Link finds it, he can enter the valley of death and pursue the cog in the Sheikah fortress.

But avoid entering the desert at all costs. Its sands are unforgiving and deadly, and there is no way back into Hyrule but through the Sheikah. (He is in fact trying to keep Link away from the Gerudo as they don't have any idea he's posing as the true king and Ganon doesn't want Link figuring it out.)

Link must then stealth his way into the dungeon, bomb through a cell wall into the artifact room, and steal the gate key. With that, Link heads off toward the misty valley of death and the mysterious, warring people who protect the final cog.
Logged
Re: Plot hole?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2015, 07:04:48 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
I know that the last post here was long ago but this doesn't seem to be finalized yet so I want to give a comment on the ideas.

Quote
If we stick to Ganon thinking the cog was with the Royal Family, we might as well add a dramatic kind of event when he goes back to get that one. Like he goes into the throne room and Zelda is giving the cog to a Sheikah, and she sees Link and calls the guards, he has to use agility/stealth to escape, then try to sneak into the Sheikah stronghold. Which, there, he gets caught and thrown out, meets the Hero's Shade, goes to the desert, etc.

I like this idea the most, but I would change it a little bit:
 Link finds the other cogs and goes back to the castle to meet with Ganon. Ganon tells him that he gathered information from many books in the castle library and discovered that the last cog was actually inside of the castle. Link goes to find it, discover a secret path behind one of the bookshelf in the library (pushing a special book about the cogs or taking it out to activate the mechanism) -> leads to a small dungeon.
Two possibilities here:
1. Before he can enter Zelda and a Sheikah appear, Link hides very fast behind another bookshelf in the middle of the room, Zelda and the Shiekah are wondering why the path is already open but go in saying "We should act fast. I want it to be secure.".
2. Link enters the dungeon. Hears someone coming. Hides inside a barrel or jug. Zelda and the Sheikah enter the dungeon. They are wondering why the path was already open. Zelda say "We should act fast. I want it to be secure." and they both go deeper into the dungeon.
 Link goes through the dungeon. Some puzzles, some enemys, some traps (as some kind of security mechanisms). At the end of the dungeon he reaches an altar where Zelda and the Sheikah are standing. Link hides immediately behind a pillar. Zelda gives the cog to the Shiekah and tells him to bring it to the Sheikah stronghold as it would be safe there and she has the feeling that something bad will happen soon. The Sheikah and Zelda leave.
Maybe some kind of boss fight could be added here either before the scence with the Sheikah and Zelda or afterwards (BUT not against Zelda or the Sheikah as I think it would be much better storywise if Link stay unrecognized). Afterwards a teleport field appears (like in the big dungeons the blue and red ones) and brings Link back to the entrance of the secret path/ next to the library. Link goes back to Ganon, talks to him.

And than it goes on like already in the plot (With a few additions)
"I see.. so the cog was taken from the castle to be protected by the royal family’s servants. The one, who was with Zelda, is one of them. They are called the Shadow Folk. The Sheikah,” The king says.
“After a war between my ancestors and the Hylians left my people exiled in the desert, the Sheikah were tasked with guarding the path back to Hyrule so we might never return. Their icy resolve to their duty was almost as crushing as the unforgiving heat of the desert. ” He presents Link with a key. “The Sheikah fortress, of which Zelda talked about, lies at the desert’s mouth, at the end of the Valley of Death. The valley is closed off, but you may be able to sneak in. This key is ceremonially given to the messenger to the Shadow Folk. I’m afraid it was unceremoniously taken from him. Now you are the new messenger. Be careful. ”

Quote
One problem I see with that is from the wiki on the Shiekah:

Quote
He meets with the elders, however they obviously won't let Link anywhere near the cog since they know to protect it. They also think that there is no danger in Hyrule, since the Gerudo are still kept out.

If they don't think Hyrule is in danger, why would they take the cog?  Is there something in that doc that contradicts this?

The Shiekah don't think that there is Hyrule is in danger, but take the cog as Zelda requests it. They might also think that Zelda's worries are unjustified.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 07:41:28 pm by 4ndaKava »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up

 


Contact Us | Legal | Advertise Here
2013 © ZFGC, All Rights Reserved



Page created in 0.047 seconds with 41 queries.

anything