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Author Topic: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-browser)  (Read 8306 times)

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[Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-brow...
« on: November 03, 2012, 12:17:31 pm »
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Recently I decided to try out browser-based game programing, not using anything like Flash or Shockwave, but pure JavaScript games using WebGL. For those of you who don't know what it is WebGL is a port of OpenGL to the browser, and allows for hardware accelerated graphics using JavaScript. Since I really wanted to learn this technology I played around with a couple small, dumb projects. But then I saw this really cool GPU TileMap demo, and I decided right then I was going to rewrite The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past for the browser.

I want to stress that this project is not a port of code, it is not a ROM in a web-based emulator, and it uses no established engine; it is a complete from-scratch recreation of a classic favorite. I wrote a custom map generator/editor to leverage the technique in the blog post above (more info on my blog, the part 2 post is almost done), and everything else from scratch as well.

The code, assets, and more information is available on GitHub and anyone can contribute; though really what I need right now is help with assets (sprites, maps, etc). This project is first and foremost a testament to browser gaming with WebGL and a learning experience for me. Though I will not turn away pull requests I have the programming mostly covered, but generating the maps and editing collisions, and piecing together images of link into usable sprites take more time than anything else; so any help is appreciated.

Without further ado here are some screenshots from the game, though they will look very similar to something we are all familiar with:




This project is at a very early stage, I just finished writing map/entity collisions. In case anyone was curious ,here is the roadmap I am following:

  • Map Rendering (small tearing bug)
  • Entity Rendering
  • Collisions (small clipping bug)
  • Zone Confinement
  • Item Management
  • Map interaction (lifting, pushing, cutting, etc)
  • Combat
  • Dialog
  • First Dungeon (palace)

I've got the algorithm to confine the camera to a zone written, just need to map out the zones vertices (by zone I am referring to the area your camera can move in before you reach the edge and the game would load a new area). If anyone is interested in helping out, please let me know and I will be more than happy to explain how stuff works, and how you can help.

Thanks all!
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 01:22:33 pm »
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Big undertaking.

Looking at the screens, why is Link smaller than the tiles by ratio?  It really sticks out and actually hurts my eyes.  The tiles look blurry as hell but Link looks like a clean pixeled sprite.  I can also tell that Link is smaller than he should be.  He should be approximately a tile and a half tall...somewhere around 24 pixels.

I know you said you need resources but everything is readily available on the net:
www.spriters-resource.com
*just take the time to optimize the sheet OR you can search our resources where you will find an optimized LttP sheet from an old member
http://noproblo.dayjo.org/ZeldaSounds/
*every sound you could ever want for any Zelda game
www.vgmaps.com
*huge database of screenshot maps and such from playthroughs/rips...you'll find LttP in the SNES section

That should be everything you need, it's just upto you do put it all together.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 01:54:21 pm by Theforeshadower »
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 02:17:12 pm »
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The tiles are only blurry because I scaled down a screenshot in GIMP, they are not blurry in the actual application. As far as the scale of link, it is a simple configuration change to rescale him, I am more worried about functional improvements first before getting the scale perfected.

I never said I needed assets, I am well aware of where to get them and the quality of those places. I said I needed help piecing them together. This is an open source project so I always promote contributors.

The sprites on spriters-resource are generally trash, most are incomplete and the author usually thinks it is cute to place them willy nilly across the image making it unusable without relaying out the entire thing.

I appreciate the links, but none of this is new information. I was just raising awareness for an interesting project, and testing the waters to see if anyone would like to contribute. If this isn't the place for that I can delete my post and move on.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 02:23:53 pm by englercj »
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 02:36:34 pm »
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The tiles are only blurry because I scaled down a screenshot in GIMP, they are not blurry in the actual application. As far as the scale of link, it is a simple configuration change to rescale him, I am more worried about functional improvements first before getting the scale perfected.

I never said I needed assets, I am well aware of where to get them and the quality of those places. I said I needed help piecing them together. This is an open source project so I always promote contributors.

The sprites on spriters-resource are generally trash, most are incomplete and the author usually thinks it is cute to place them willy nilly across the image making it unusable without relaying out the entire thing.

I appreciate the links, but none of this is new information. I was just raising awareness for an interesting project, and testing the waters to see if anyone would like to contribute. If this isn't the place for that I can delete my post and move on.


Quote
though really what I need right now is help with assets (sprites, maps, etc).
I thought I read that correctly...  I guess I didn't.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the LttP Sprites on tSR.  As I said, YOU take the time to optimize them OR check our resources HERE http://zfgc.com/index.php/resources/items/view/180 http://zfgc.com/index.php/resources/items/preview/180/ for an optimized sheet that was put together by another member.

There really is nothing for anyone to contribute which you cannot find already.  Wondering what exactly you are asking help for.  Not trying to be a douche but really.  You turn down the suggestions claiming you didn't ask for them and also stating you already knew of those.

What else do you need for LttP?  You have the maps, you have the sprites, you have the sounds...  I don't know what else you could need except for game code which you stated you really didn't want but wouldn't turn down.  Piecing together sprites? Why?  Why would you?  More work than is necessary.  You don't need to save the space as pngs take hardly any memory and the space you'd save by piecing 8x8 cells of Link together wouldn't be worth the time to code all of his actions when you could simply use what has already been nicely put together on the net.

Just saying...

Perhaps you could clarify what exactly you are looking for.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 02:41:13 pm by Theforeshadower »
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2012, 02:50:59 pm »
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I'm not looking for anything, as I said before it is an open source project so I was saying what I was looking for in contributors. Anyone can contribute, or no one can; just raising awareness.

The issues about sprites that you are forgetting in this project is that it is browser-based meaning any sheet will have to be downloaded, so making them smaller does help significantly. Especially when there are multiple sheets as the browser will throttle the number of downloads per webpage; to fix a lot of this I do precaching and some other tricks but that doesn't mean I want to throw image optimization out of the window.

I had found that link you gave me, but when you click "download this resource" it just gives me some particle sheet. I managed to grab the sheet via "View Image" but I initially passed by it due to the broken link. As for the tSR sheets, like I said before many are incomplete. I found other resources that were much more helpful. Most assets need some massaging for prime-time on the web and since that is a large job, it was something I would hope people would want to contribute to. I have no problem doing it myself, but the entire point of OpenSource is collaboration so I figured I would post and see who was interested in collaborating.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2012, 03:01:59 pm »
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Ah.

Well, I don't speak for everyone but, in ZFGC's history, members don't usually collaborate together until the original creator/coder put's forth a solid demo with many features available.  I haven't had a chance to check out your github yet so I don't know how far along your progress is.  If you had a solid walking engine with a few of the items pretty accurately programmed(even with placeholder sprites), I am sure people would then jump in.

As far as the piecing goes, I still don't see the point as many people have at least 256k maybe even 512k by now.  Even that optimized Link sheet is only 110-ish kilobytes.  Preloading those into the ram shouldn't be taxing unless webgl is different than traditional means of storing resources.  If anything, I would think the soundtrack and sound effects would be your biggest hurdle for memory usage.  People should have 2gb of ram these days unless they are on netbooks or tablets but then that would mean you would have to program based upon that.

I have a few optimized LttP tilesets and those are just as small as the Link sheet with dungeon sets being even smaller.   Maybe you could give me some links to discussion on how webgl handles resources as I still don't see the point of piecing with so many pcs having the available memory to easily store the images.  If webgl is that hardcore for memory management, *shudders*.  Maybe it's a good thing I haven't taken a dive into HTML5 and WebGL yet until it advances a little more.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 03:36:59 pm by Theforeshadower »
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2012, 03:16:24 pm »
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Walking works fine, and you can see by the roadmap I'm moving into items/combat soon; so its w/e.

The issues I raise are less of a memory management issues and more of a bandwidth management issues, WebGL doesn't manage resources at all; that is my job.

I guess I'll just come back in a month when I have the first dungeon done.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2012, 03:46:34 pm »
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The issues I raise are less of a memory management issues and more of a bandwidth management issues, WebGL doesn't manage resources at all; that is my job.
Well, I would like to see some articles or docs on the subject as I know very little about html 5 and such.  Still seems bizarre to have bandwidth issues with a game that would be made up of tiles and optimized sheets.  Preload all of Link's actions and just the rest as needed.  I have played quite a few html 5/canvas/JS/webgl games that do this and I am tethering and I really don't notice any performance issues.

I guess I'll just come back in a month when I have the first dungeon done.

lol....ok, we'll be here.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2012, 03:50:00 pm »
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Preload all of Link's actions and just the rest as needed.

I've already said I was doing that.

I have played quite a few html 5/canvas/JS/webgl games that do this and I am tethering and I really don't notice any performance issues.

Because they use the methods I mentioned, and optimize size their assets.

lol....ok, we'll be here.

I'm tired of defending my project, and if no one is interested in a startup project like you said; then I am just wasting my time.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2012, 04:07:34 pm »
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Because they use the methods I mentioned, and optimize size their assets.

I'm tired of defending my project, and if no one is interested in a startup project like you said; then I am just wasting my time.
How do you know they did that?  I'm not a complete idiot and can do a simple "View Source" and follow the rabbit trail to the resources the game is linking to in many cases.

Now, why are you getting so defensive?  I am genuinely wondering why you want pieced sheets so badly.  If you had some stats or charts between the difference, you might also get people involved if you can show the performance/bandwidth is worth the extra time.  Think outside the box.  People are more willing to contribute to a project that has charts, data, etc.

If you are already mad because of an attempt to figure out your motives behind a programming choice, I don't know what to tell you.
Also, you should really post some examples of how you would like Link to be pieced if you really need it.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2012, 04:10:30 pm »
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I'll tell you something: if you're able to remake it, and even add the features from the GBA version (not necessarily the FS game, that would be cool; I'm saying the Whirlwind Sword Attack), you have my total respect and I'll even build a statue in your honour.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2012, 04:25:20 pm »
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Because they use the methods I mentioned, and optimize size their assets.

I'm tired of defending my project, and if no one is interested in a startup project like you said; then I am just wasting my time.
How do you know they did that?  I'm not a complete idiot and can do a simple "View Source" and follow the rabbit trail to the resources the game is linking to in many cases.

Now, why are you getting so defensive?  I am genuinely wondering why you want pieced sheets so badly.  If you had some stats or charts between the difference, you might also get people involved if you can show the performance/bandwidth is worth the extra time.  Think outside the box.  People are more willing to contribute to a project that has charts, data, etc.

If you are already mad because of an attempt to figure out your motives behind a programming choice, I don't know what to tell you.
Also, you should really post some examples of how you would like Link to be pieced if you really need it.

I'm not even remotely upset, just tired of repeating myself. Smaller sheets = less download time, period. I'm not being defensive, and have explained my reasoning about 3 times now, I just don't know what else to say. Do I really need to post a chart to show a PNG of half the size downloads twice as fast? I don't see how adding extra empty space to a sprite sheet when it isn't needed is "thinking outside the box".

I really don't understand why you are making such a huge issue out of something so small? I implemented really cool and unique techniques of doing different rendering tricks in this game, and what bothers you the most is I want to reduce empty space in my sprite PNGs.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2012, 04:29:53 pm »
That's actually incorrect. If you increase the number of HTTP requests sent to the server, it's going to bottleneck the overall download speed as you'll be fetching.. say, 8 resources at once rather than all of them in one go. I mean, you could split the sheets up but from the sounds of it you're going to be doing it in excess.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2012, 04:32:14 pm »
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That's actually incorrect. If you increase the number of HTTP requests sent to the server, it's going to bottleneck the overall download speed as you'll be fetching.. say, 8 resources at once rather than all of them in one go. I mean, you could split the sheets up but from the sounds of it you're going to be doing it in excess.

I would never want to split them into 100 spereate sheets, that isn't what I said. What I said was, a sheet that is using a 64x64 grid (like the one I was linked) but the sprite in each grid is only 32x32 (like the one I was linked) is a huge waste of space, and inflates the PNG size for no reason. These need to be cut up and pieced together in a more efficient way; that is all I have been saying.
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thestig

Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 04:41:57 pm »
Ah alright, so you are _retiling_ the sheets, not splitting them up into multiple files. My mistake.

I had to do the same thing for Minish Cap Link since absolutely nobody knew how to properly rip sprites. (note you can find it here: http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=39905.0 ..though I think MG-Zero modified this as some of the pieces were off by like a pixel or two)

Also the CMS on this site is famously known for working improperly. I would highly suggest against using it and instead just make a post in the graphics board asking for help. If anyone has an issue with this, you can refer them to me.

Anyways I apologize for that misunderstanding. ;p
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2012, 04:48:18 pm »
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Is this what you were looking for?


Pretty much pieced as you can piece something.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2012, 04:55:50 pm »
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Ah alright, so you are _retiling_ the sheets, not splitting them up into multiple files. My mistake.

I had to do the same thing for Minish Cap Link since absolutely nobody knew how to properly rip sprites. (note you can find it here: http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=39905.0 ..though I think MG-Zero modified this as some of the pieces were off by like a pixel or two)

Also the CMS on this site is famously known for working improperly. I would highly suggest against using it and instead just make a post in the graphics board asking for help. If anyone has an issue with this, you can refer them to me.

Anyways I apologize for that misunderstanding. ;p

It happens, and that sprite you linked is exactly what I am looking for (but obviously LTTP not the minish cap style).

Is this what you were looking for?

image removed

Pretty much pieced as you can piece something.

Kind of, I don't want him cut into separate body parts like that. gm's post is what I was referring too: limited space between, 1 sheet for everything that character can do. The sprite sheet you linked me is great, has a lot of the possible sprite actions; I just need to retile (thanks for the correection gm) the sheet.
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2012, 05:04:34 pm »
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Ah, turns out I somewhat misunderstood as well a little about that.  :)
If you load that optimized sheet or whatever you have into Game Maker as a "strip", you can crop all the subimages at once then export/save the entire thing as a new sheet in png format.

You could even go as far as rearranging the sheet to your liking and such.
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thestig

Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2012, 05:13:57 pm »
http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=8149.msg90479#msg90479 <-- Vanilla ALTTP Link sheets.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=32435.msg364427#msg364427 <-- One of the very many ALTTP-styled Link sheets.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=36319.msg407649#msg407649 ALTTP Font.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=13762.msg145691#msg145691 <-- Complete ALTTP overworld dump

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=11098.msg118510#msg118510 <-- Random ALTTP Tiles

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=11781.msg125327#msg125327 <-- ALTTP Water tile animations

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=36443.msg409146#msg409146 <--- Apparently "all" of ALTTP tiles?



I tried finding you random resources via here: http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=32.0 ...I'm sorry that I couldn't have done better, but the forum's search function is shitcanned and the CMS is a piece of !@#$%. Sorry, but this site's literally the most functionally dysfunctional site on the planet! ;p
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Re: [Screenshots] Zelda: A Link to the Past (In-...
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2012, 05:16:35 pm »
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http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=8149.msg90479#msg90479 <-- Vanilla ALTTP Link sheets.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=32435.msg364427#msg364427 <-- One of the very many ALTTP-styled Link sheets.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=36319.msg407649#msg407649 ALTTP Font.

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=13762.msg145691#msg145691 <-- Complete ALTTP overworld dump

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=11098.msg118510#msg118510 <-- Random ALTTP Tiles

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=11781.msg125327#msg125327 <-- ALTTP Water tile animations

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=36443.msg409146#msg409146 <--- Apparently "all" of ALTTP tiles?



I tried finding you random resources via here: http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?board=32.0 ...I'm sorry that I couldn't have done better, but the forum's search function is shitcanned and the CMS is a piece of !@#$%. Sorry, but this site's literally the most functionally dysfunctional site on the planet! ;p

Ha! Thanks for the links, many of these I have but some of them are new to me. Thanks for the help. I am using the Return of Ganon font, it seems to be working well.

Thanks again!
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