ZFGC
General => Projects => Archive => MC Link's Awakening => Topic started by: Zaeranos on April 07, 2009, 07:11:15 pm
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OK, it seems as the staff has given green light to the community for creating the MC styled Link's Awakening. At least for the resources part. If I'm correct a select few people are still working on the engine part.
So I would like to start this off (if I'm allowed) with this topic about creating the overworld of Koholinth in Minish Cap style. Now there are a few things that have to be put straight. Guidelines as to speak for making the maps. The following questions I would like to have answered? Some may sound trivial.
The size of the tiles are 16x16?- The separate maps will have the size off 320x256 or different dimensions?
For the objects in the world like trees, do we stay true to the sizes from MC (like in Jeod's Koholinth LttP style) or do we resize them to fit LA's dimensions (Like Xfixium's Koholinth)?- Which resources do we use? VGMaps, Spriters Resource or others?
Where do we start? Mabe Village, Toronbo Beach, Koholinth Castle or somewhere else?- What program do we use to create the maps?
- What file format does the map need to be in?
Am I forgetting something?
I'll update this first post once the guidelines are set. Or the staff will if they make the guidelines for us in order to be compatible with the engine.
Let the bombardment of replies begin.
UPDATE: Please don't start mapping just yet, some major issues still have to be resolved.
- The main tile size is 16x16 pixels. For some decorative purposes tiles of 8x8 pixels are also allowed.
- We stay true to the size of the tiles and objects from MC. Objects won't be shrunk to match similar objects from LA.
- Making custom tiles are allowed, but offer a small sheet of the custom tiles along to the new part of the map, in order for the custom tiles to be put with the resources.
- We start mapping from Mabe Village and continue following the story.
- Name the parts of the map according to the area in the Game and the grid coordinates. For example the top left most area of Toronbo Beach, just below Mabe Village Library, is Toronbo_Beach_1-1. And the part to the right of that Toronbo_Beach_1-2. Some areas may have some special building which can be taken in the naming like, Toronbo_Beach_2-4_Tail_Cave
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I think a base tileset needs to be created first, that can be updated by one person.
Keeping true to the original size would proably be better.
Not sure what we're using to make the maps with.
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About keeping it based on the original size, to me that seems limiting. The size of the original game was such because of the limits of the hardware it ran on. Since this game is going to be a recreation of Link's Awakening, the places of the buildings are going to be the same, that is a given, but to not give any leeway to the building sizes of the Minish Cap would make the Minish Cap style look shrunken. Another thing in Link's Awakening, there are sectors on which you can be on the screen. The Minish Cap doesn't do it that way on the GBA. Certainly in terms of recreation there can be graphical liberties taken.
As for resources to use, VGMaps has watermarks over some of there maps and the enemies on the Spriter's Resource sometimes contain problems making them hard for developers to use. I was thinking that we could handle getting the resources ourselves from the source. This is not just going to be a "get resources and dump them to a spot" project.
As for where to start, chances are it will be from the beginning of the game. Not only is this easier in that there are no complicated enemies to worry about right away, but it is the first place in the game.
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Yes, base tileset is needed. VGmaps is an exellent source for tiles to make tilesets from, but TSR may already have a few sets. Naturally, the map should probably start in Mabe and work around until all of the map the player can cover before the first dungeon is completed. Leaves room for early testing. Xfixium already has Tail Cave complete, but I'm not sure if the map is extractable. MC tiles are 16x16, so each quadrant is 320x256. Pretty much all of the sprites are complete, so until the mapping is started, I would request permission to make a sprite list. (Sprites meaning items, characters, other things that don't classify as "tiles")
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
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Jeod, nice resources. I saw that it also contained custom made sprites and tiles of other games. Although I didn't saw any for LA. It also contains some Four Swords Maps.
Making the resources ourself will be a lot of work. Someone will have to rip them. I don't know how you do it.
Oh yeah I updated the first post with 2 more questions. Sorry!
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Jeod, nice resources. I saw that it also contained custom made sprites and tiles of other games. Although I didn't saw any for LA. It also contains some Four Swords Maps.
Making the resources ourself will be a lot of work. Someone will have to rip them. I don't know how you do it.
Oh yeah I updated the first post with 2 more questions. Sorry!
Naturally, they would be ripped using the VBA Ripper.
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
*faceslap*
Ya even got the poorly-made sprite sheets. Congrats. Still, you managed to save Rogultgot's MC Link sprite sheet, of which I have been DYING to find once again since it got lost somehow, somewhere, on the internets. Thanks, Jeod, simply for that sprite sheet!
And for that green Ring item. That's useful too, even if it is a recolor.
BTW, whoever ripped the FS "maps" deserves to be smacked. HARD. No joke about it.
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
*faceslap*
Ya even got the poorly-made sprite sheets. Congrats. Still, you managed to save Rogultgot's MC Link sprite sheet, of which I have been DYING to find once again since it got lost somehow, somewhere, on the internets. Thanks, Jeod, simply for that sprite sheet!
And for that green Ring item. That's useful too, even if it is a recolor.
BTW, whoever ripped the FS "maps" deserves to be smacked. HARD. No joke about it.
Actually, some of that stuff could be quite useful to me.
Agree with smacking the FS map ripper though. They look pretty off colour, talus cave especially yucky yucky.
BTW I've had that link sheet for ages, apart from allignment issues it's really nice.
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* The size of the tiles are 16x16?
I would assume thats the most logical choice. All the MC tiles are currently in that format. Might be handy to have some 8x8 tiles for smaller details. And some brushs for larger tile objects.
* The separate maps will have the size off 320x256 or different dimensions?
You will need to adjust the size based on the scale of the tileset your using. For example if an LA tree takes up 4 tiles, and a MC tree takes up 6 or so, you will need to scale it 50%.
* For the objects in the world like trees, do we stay true to the sizes from MC (like in Jeod's Koholinth LttP style) or do we resize them to fit LA's dimensions (Like Xfixium's Koholinth)?
If your using MC tiles, keep the dimensions the same as in MC, otherwise your proportions will be pretty out-of-wack when tiles and objects are compared.
* Which resources do we use? VGMaps, Spriters Resource or others?
I'm sure you can find resources from eveywhere. A lot of members probably have some.
* Where do we start? Mabe Village, Toronbo Beach, Koholinth Castle or somewhere else?
My suggestion is to start from where you start in game "Mabe Village" and progres outwards. You can get the maps in a game quicker that way.
* What program do we use to create the maps?
I could create a simple map editor if you wish. Its not a hard task.
* What file format does the map need to be in?
If your intending on importing them into GML, its probably easiest to have each layer of the map rendered as a seperate image. Although it might be an idea to write an importer for whatever binary format the maps will be stored in during development, though that would probably be harder for you.
* Am I forgetting something?
There is no spoon.
On another note guys, if your going to be using the same basic techniques and swap&replace's in the maps, you might look into writing an automated covertor, which looks at an LA map and converts it into what it thinks is a good representation of it, then have human tilers go over it and make corrections. I did something similar to this with LA-COOP.
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* The size of the tiles are 16x16?
I would assume thats the most logical choice. All the MC tiles are currently in that format. Might be handy to have some 8x8 tiles for smaller details. And some brushs for larger tile objects.
* The separate maps will have the size off 320x256 or different dimensions?
You will need to adjust the size based on the scale of the tileset your using. For example if an LA tree takes up 4 tiles, and a MC tree takes up 6 or so, you will need to scale it 50%.
* For the objects in the world like trees, do we stay true to the sizes from MC (like in Jeod's Koholinth LttP style) or do we resize them to fit LA's dimensions (Like Xfixium's Koholinth)?
If your using MC tiles, keep the dimensions the same as in MC, otherwise your proportions will be pretty out-of-wack when tiles and objects are compared.
I will agree with all of the above. However, is this project going to be a simple "revamp" or a full-fledged "remake"? If it's a "remake", can't we add something new to the game? Like Metroid Zero Mission, compared to the original Metroid?
* Which resources do we use? VGMaps, Spriters Resource or others?
I'm sure you can find resources from eveywhere. A lot of members probably have some.
You can use the tilesets that Jeod posted earlier in the topic... The only problem is that they're BMPs, which is bad for computer memory.
* Where do we start? Mabe Village, Toronbo Beach, Koholinth Castle or somewhere else?
My suggestion is to start from where you start in game "Mabe Village" and progres outwards. You can get the maps in a game quicker that way.
Excellent idea. Plus, it helps when making the demos so that we just use what we already have for it. And isn't it a good idea to start a demo of this game from the very beginning?
* What program do we use to create the maps?
I could create a simple map editor if you wish. Its not a hard task.
* What file format does the map need to be in?
If your intending on importing them into GML, its probably easiest to have each layer of the map rendered as a seperate image. Although it might be an idea to write an importer for whatever binary format the maps will be stored in during development, though that would probably be harder for you.
I'm thinking having each "room" be a simple image. Just eliminate anything that can be interacted with (rocks, bushes, people), multilayer objects (building roofs, treetops), animated terrain (water, lights, windy grass) and doorways (cave entrances, house doors, etc). That way, you don't change what happens to the background, but can then easily manipulate (using code or whatever) the things that can change over the course of the game.
* Am I forgetting something?
There is no spoon.
If there is no spoon, then WTF am I holding?I
On another note guys, if your going to be using the same basic techniques and swap&replace's in the maps, you might look into writing an automated covertor, which looks at an LA map and converts it into what it thinks is a good representation of it, then have human tilers go over it and make corrections. I did something similar to this with LA-COOP.
Hmm. This looks promising. Go for it.
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Ok so we have a few pieces from my collection, and some from other sources. Shall we sort out what to use and what not to use so we can start this !@#$%? Miles, you seem to know a lot about coloring, so why don't you pick out the good sets from my collection to use? I assume PNG is the format we're using? As for the maps themselves, we would be doing background and foreground, correct? (Foreground being the tops of trees, etc)
In the meantime, I think I'll work on finding some more sources. TSR isn't too bad, but the tilesets are off in terms of color.
Marin Sheet (http://www.postimage.org/aV1Z1GES-27349f480ff689aee79cbe45ae2731bb.png)
More Sprites (Most are LttP though) (http://z9.invisionfree.com/LOZ_OOT2D_CP/index.php?showtopic=26)
Shyguy Kingdom Sheets (http://tsgk.captainn.net/index.php?p=showsheets&t=sr&sr=214)
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This is not just going to be a "get resources and dump them to a spot" project.
I stress this again, making the resource process an online easter egg hunt for things which were put together for the sake of convenience individually and then grouping them together introduces problems. While it is "good" to plan ahead, it is not good to look for everything all at once and lose sight of the fact that the beginning area does not contain that everything.
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I know that. I just want to know what tileset I'm supposed to be using.
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* The separate maps will have the size off 320x256 or different dimensions?
You will need to adjust the size based on the scale of the tileset your using. For example if an LA tree takes up 4 tiles, and a MC tree takes up 6 or so, you will need to scale it 50%.
Personally I think the buildings and the trees will give the biggest problems. If you're gonna adapt to the dimensions of the sections to this, you need to do it for every part of the map, which might give a bit of a stretched look in the result.
I think keeping to 320x256 pixels is the best and allow the creators some creative licensing with the maps to put in the various objects. Although there probably needs to one person who will put the various parts together and see that the objects at the edges align.
* Which resources do we use? VGMaps, Spriters Resource or others?
I'm sure you can find resources from eveywhere. A lot of members probably have some.
Agreed, but we do need one set of resources to use to avoid graphical issues. And it has to be easy for anyone to get. 4Sword says that we have to create our own resources and that ZFGC shouldn't become a dump for resources archived somewhere else. The creators of those resources probably wouldn't like it either. But I can also see the dilemma, that creating those resources will take much work and the most are already available somewhere else. People might not like ripping resource that are much easier available somewhere else.
* What program do we use to create the maps?
I could create a simple map editor if you wish. Its not a hard task.
Personally, I don't care much what we use. As long as it easy to use to put different tiles together and that parts of object tiles, like trees need to be transparant. It would also be nice if it were easy to create custom tiles when needed.
* What file format does the map need to be in?
If your intending on importing them into GML, its probably easiest to have each layer of the map rendered as a seperate image. Although it might be an idea to write an importer for whatever binary format the maps will be stored in during development, though that would probably be harder for you.
I have to agree with Miles07, but instead of eliminating the interactive objects, we put in the the smallest version of the interaction, like the destroyed versions of the plants and grass and opened doorways.
On another note guys, if your going to be using the same basic techniques and swap&replace's in the maps, you might look into writing an automated covertor, which looks at an LA map and converts it into what it thinks is a good representation of it, then have human tilers go over it and make corrections. I did something similar to this with LA-COOP.
That is definitely a possibility, but I think it won't be as much fun as putting them together.
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OK, from the replies above I can set these guidelines already:
- The main tile size is 16x16 pixels. For some decorative purposes tiles of 8x8 pixels are also allowed.
- We stay true to the size of the tiles and objects from MC. Objects won't be shrunk to match similar objects from LA.
- Making custom tiles are allowed, but offer a small sheet of the custom tiles along to the new part of the map, in order for the custom tiles to be put with the resources.
- We start mapping from Mabe Village and continue following the story.
- Name the parts of the map according to the area in the Game and the grid coordinates. For example the top left most area of Toronbo Beach, just below Mabe Village Library, is Toronbo_Beach_1-1. And the part to the right of that Toronbo_Beach_1-2. Some areas may have some special building which can be taken in the naming like, Toronbo_Beach_2-4_Tail_Cave
These are the guidelines that don't seem to need a discussion anymore. If everyone agrees with them I put them in the first post. Oh yeah, I put in some additional guidelines, to naming conventions and using/offering custom made tiles.
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Another issue with using many of the tilesets out there is that they oversimplify layering. For example, trees, houses, certain bridges, etc. from their sheets would be of no use. I am fine with people using those resources to make mockups of areas, but understand that they cannot be put directly into the game as it develops. Because specific things will need to be ripped due to the failure of previous sheets, the "convenience" offered by the other sheets is really not convenient.
If those making maps do not care about how the resources will be made in game, then that is just bad. Making developers do additional work while mappers would move on to additional areas is also not good.
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I have to agree with Miles07, but instead of eliminating the interactive objects, we put in the the smallest version of the interaction, like the destroyed versions of the plants and grass and opened doorways.
Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks, Niek.
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So, you guys want any help? Heres my MC mabe village:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5766/mabevillagemc.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5766/mabevillagemc.png)
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Dang, Ryu...IMO, that's really good! But that's jus me. Is it useable, 4Sword?
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A lot of the features on it look nice; I like the fact that deviations were taken so that parts didn't seem too square, but I am unsure of whether or not parts of it seem too wide or too big, if that makes sense. As for the question of usability, the buildings, trees, and possibly the hills would have to be re-ripped for the area's master tile sheet - in addition, the objects on the map would have to be removed (bushes, doors, signs, rocks, twig roots, etc.)
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@Jeod: Thanks for the compliment :)
@4sword: Well, I could give you the sheet I used if that might help too. Here it is:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3898/mcmastersheettiles.png (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3898/mcmastersheettiles.png)
If you do want to use that Mabe Village just give me a list of stuff to do to make it usable.
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Those sheets weren't really meant for Game Maker. :P The tree tops need to be separate from the tree trunk like in MC. This also applies to the roof tops being separate from the house base. VBA shows how this is done in the map viewer tool. eg. The tree top is over Link while the trunk is a layer lower. I think I'll start ripping.
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So, you guys want any help? Heres my MC mabe village:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5766/mabevillagemc.png (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5766/mabevillagemc.png)
It is a nice mock-up of Mabe Village, but I don't agree with some of the buildings and some of the cliffs you have chosen. But that is a discussion for later. We are still working on some guidelines to prevent a lot of redo work in the future. One of those guidelines is the resources used. Did you make that tilesheet yourself? We appreciate your help and love to have it, but please don't go ahead of yourselves, until the major things are settled.
A lot of the features on it look nice; I like the fact that deviations were taken so that parts didn't seem too square, but I am unsure of whether or not parts of it seem too wide or too big, if that makes sense. As for the question of usability, the buildings, trees, and possibly the hills would have to be re-ripped for the area's master tile sheet - in addition, the objects on the map would have to be removed (bushes, doors, signs, rocks, twig roots, etc.)
So if I understand correct, we have the map has to be build up in a few layers (2?). One layer is the background. This contains the tree trunks, walls, cliffs, fences and other stuff that Link doesn't really interact with, but does influence Link, objects and other characters movements. Additionally, this layer contains the decorations, like the greens, flowers, stone steps, stairs and dirt roads. And finally this layer contains the cut versions of plants, high grass, uprooted signs and removed rocks.
The second layer contains the objects that don't influence Link but are painted over him to show depth. Like the tree tops, roofs and other high up stuff.
Stuff that Link interacts with are made as objects in the world. Examples, high grass, plants, rocks, sign posts and other characters. What about doors and doorposts?
PS: As no one objects to the first set guidelines I assume I can put them in the first post.
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The tilesheet he provided is a combination of the Minish Cap RPGMaker sheets I created when the game first came out. Except with my name wiped off of it. XD
http://www.pyxosoft.com/forums/index.php?topic=9.0
That's why I happen to know they aren't good sheets for this game. They were specifically made with RPGMaker 2000/2003 in mind. Since you can only get so much in a tileset with that program. What you said is spot on though. Doors would be interactive objects. You'll need 4sword's final nod on that one, just in case I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
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@Xfixium: Sorry about the name being off your sheet :P those have been on my computer for a long time and I forgot whose they were.
@Niek: Well, I made the mock-up awhile ago just for fun and decided to post it to see what you guys thought.
EDIT: I had an idea for how we should do the mapping, I think we should put together a small GM file with all the tile sheets and then pass it out to the mappers and have them each do a different part (one person does mabe village, another toronto shores, etc.) then merge them into the main file to use them. sound like a good idea?
EDIT2: Thought I'd post this:
http://portfolio16.de/zelda/map4/map_en.htm
Its a really useful interactive map of the game that I used when I tried remaking LA.
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Sorry about my delay in responding to these topics. In addition to having to deal with user behavior on this forum, I am working on simplifying and reworking Goodnight's movement engine for the Community Project's Engine.
As for how maps will be implemented. Essentially they will be mockups. If the mockup is good enough, it can be put into a Game Maker 7 file so others can work on it. The only thing that would be needed in each Game Maker 7 file would be the background resource set as a tile sheet and a room that contains the layering concept I mentioned made from those tiles. I do not think that it would need all times and if all tiles were used from each map, it could lead to possible issues with redundant tiles in multiple background files.
But yeah, Niek, as for layering it is mostly two layers. The first and second layers are what you said pretty much, there is sometimes a higher third layer and then sometimes there is a foreground overlay which is kind of like a fourth layer.
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Take your time responding :), I noticed you were dealing with the "make zelda game" topic, must be kind of annoying dealing with that kinda stuff all the time. So, the plan is (once the tile sheets are set up) we'll make mock-ups of the areas, show them to everyone on here, and if it looks good, transfer it into GM? Sounds like a good plan.
Is there anything I can do know to help until the resources and guidelines are all setup?
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So if I understand correct, we have the map has to be build up in a few layers (2?). One layer is the background. This contains the tree trunks, walls, cliffs, fences and other stuff that Link doesn't really interact with, but does influence Link, objects and other characters movements. Additionally, this layer contains the decorations, like the greens, flowers, stone steps, stairs and dirt roads. And finally this layer contains the cut versions of plants, high grass, uprooted signs and removed rocks.
The second layer contains the objects that don't influence Link but are painted over him to show depth. Like the tree tops, roofs and other high up stuff.
Stuff that Link interacts with are made as objects in the world. Examples, high grass, plants, rocks, sign posts and other characters. What about doors and doorposts?
Shouldn't the stairs be included in the "objects" category, too? I remember in TMC that small cliffs and hills can force Link to look like he's moving slower, so wouldn't that technically be separated from the rest of the map in order for that to be coded correctly?
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I am not so sure that stairs would have to be objects like that. There would be tiles since the stairs are beneath Link and they do not really change their appearance at all. There would also probably be invisible objects representing stairs; in the same way that invisible walls provide something solid to run into.
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So, what can I do to help move things along? I wanna map out some more stuff :).
Off-Topic Sorta:
Got bored and did a recolor of one of the photos:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png)
What do you guys think?
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Meh. I'm gonna say: In order for it to be acceptable for the TMC-style, everything should look like it'd belong to the TMC/TWW/PH/FS/FSA world. EVERYTHING. Even the pictures. But I don't know what they'll plan on doing with the pictures, since the project's still quite young.
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So, what can I do to help move things along? I wanna map out some more stuff :).
Off-Topic Sorta:
Got bored and did a recolor of one of the photos:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/221/photomarinlinkbeach.png)
What do you guys think?
RyuuKage2007 nice recolor, but like Miles07 said, it should fit MC style. But I'm more focused on getting to the first dungeon first. If you want to do something to help. You could start with ripping resources from Minish Cap Roms. VBARipper can help you in that department.
4Sword, I have some doubt about that we need every single tile from the Minish Cap and some tiles have to be custom made, because there isn't a correct equivalent in MC. So I think we best can map the overworld and extract from that the necessary tiles and put those in a tile sheet. Eliminating duplicate tiles and adding the new ones. We would be making 2 tilesheets. One for the background and 1 for the forground. I don't think LA made use of overlays, unless you want to add them for the woods and swamp or something.
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Haven't tried ripping anything before, guess I'll give it a try.
As for the photo, I was just kinda bored and felt like doing something related to LA :).
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Just take images of random areas and put them through this thing. Then make proper tilesets out of them. However, the output file may be a bit big. You'll have to manually delete duplicate tiles.
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Thanks for the files :), I'll go give it a try.
EDIT: Tried ripping, not a fan, lol. If you guys are okay with it I'm just gonna work on perfecting Mabe Village and (hopefully) making it usable, I realize that it will need to be gone over again once the final resources are put together but I'm fine with doing that, I had to re-do the entire village a few times when I was working on it for my own remake (kept switching tile sheets :P).
EDIT2: Once again getting ahead of things :P
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5979/lamcopeningarea.png
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Well if it won't be used in-game, at least it's a good visual.
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Yeah, I'm just kinda bored atm. I really want to do some work on this project buts theres not much I can do :P
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Can you draw sprite rehashes of LA characters in MC style?
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I could give it a try :).
EDIT: Did a few recolors/edits/etc. Not the best work I know, just thought I'd post them, the Madam MeowMeow one isn't too good but the other two look fine in my opinion.
Should I start a new topic and get all the character sprites together?
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It is a good idea, but just recoloring won't be enough. It has to be in MC style as well. A number of the NPC's can be found in The Minish Cap. NPC's like Mr. Wright and Syrup the Witch. Those will have to be ripped.
BACK TO TOPIC:
OK. A week has passed and everyone has been able to say their thoughts. And to get the ball rolling on the mapping. From what I've seen up here the following guidelines are the best:
Map creation
What we create is a bit a mock-up, but the tile set for the game will be compiled from this. The map will exist of two layers one layer created as a background and one as a foreground. The background will have the following elements
- Stuff that only impedes links movements: Tree trunks, walls of buildings, cliffs (land and water), fences and rocks.
- ground tiles, like grass and sand.
- Road tiles like dirt roads and pavement tiles.
- Decorations like flower patches and pebbles.
- Removed and destroyed versions of overworld objects Link can interact with.
The foreground will contain the following elements:
- Roofs
- Tree tops
- Statue tops
- Other high up stuff
Don't put in objects Link interacts with and can change state, neither put in animated background tiles like water.
Map characteristics
- The size of the separate parts of the maps will have the size 320x256.
- The main tile size is 16x16 pixels. For some decorative purposes tiles of 8x8 pixels are also allowed.
- We stay true to the size of the tiles and objects from MC. Objects won't be shrunk to match similar objects from LA.
File characteristics
- Make two files, one for the background and one for the foreground.
- Name the parts of the map according to the area in the Game and the grid coordinates. For example the top left most area of Toronbo Beach, just below Mabe Village Library, is Toronbo_Shores_1-1. And the part to the right of that Toronbo_Shores_1-2. Some areas may have some special building which can be taken in the naming like, Toronbo_Shores_2-4_Tail_Cave
- File format: PNG
- Program to create the files: TBA
Resources
- We use the resources ripped by the people of ZFGC for the Community project. The sheets can be found WHERE?
- Making custom tiles are allowed, but offer a small sheet of the custom tiles along to the new part of the map, in order for the custom tiles to be put with the resources.
We start mapping from Mabe Village and continue following the story.
Current area: Mabe Village.
Next Up: Toronbo Shores.
Look at this http://portfolio16.de/zelda/map4/map_en.htm (http://portfolio16.de/zelda/map4/map_en.htm) for an example map from LA.
If people have problems with this, then let me know and post it in this topic. Otherwise they will go up at the end of the week. There are still some things that need to be decided:
Infin: Are you still prepared to make a map editor. Or will Xfixium's Ocarina Room Editor be usable. Or are we going to have to use something like GIMP?
What file format are we going to use? PNG, JPEG or something else?
And where do we dump the Resources? And are there any tutorials on using VBARipper or any other resource extracting applications (for dummies and people in stupidity periods).
Anything I've missed?
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wouldn't it be 320x256 for the room size?
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Whoops, typo. Thnx for noticing.
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yep, also, who specifically is going to map? I'd assume everyone who's able to map would but if multiple people do it then we would have clashing rooms. We could have a small amount of people map and then one person go back over everything to make sure it matches up. this has probably already been discussed but I was just wondering.
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I can map as long as I know what tileset we're using.
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Thats mainly what I've been waiting for too. I really want to map :)
We need some to map the underworld too (inside houses/dungeons/etc.) that probably won't come till later though, anyone here good at that kinda stuff?
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It's the same thing, essentially. I can do both.
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I'm just not too good at mapping dungeons, not sure why but I just do better sticking to the overworld. probably cause thats mainly what I work on, if I had all the tiles needed for dungeons I could probably work on them.
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Well if you want to go mapping, I suggest you help out ripping resources. I know it's boring, but it has to be done. For the mapping part I think anyone who wants to help out can do it. But for the clashing of parts, I suggest that when someone starts a part he would post that he is going to do it. Like calling a veto on it or something. And when he has finished, others can comment or post variations on it for the parts they don't agree on.
I think we should focus first on the areas up to the first dungeon: Mabe Village, Toronbo Shores and Mysterious Woods. For these areas I think we need to rip are Hyrule Town, The north and south fields, The Minish Woods and Veil Falls.
I agree on it that one person has to put the maps together an look for inconsistencies. He also compiles the tilesheet for the game.
The dungeons parts will be a bit more difficult. The dungeontiles in MC have elemental themes, the dungeons in LA don't. The themes of LA are visible in the end bosses and the shapes of the dungeons. Just recoloring tiles won't do. We'll have to look for a solution there.
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
^what about that? isn't that the ripped graphics from most of the areas?
EDIT: heres a map of all the overworld stuff that we need done:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5346/lamcoutlinemapk.png
and heres a map of all the underworld stuff (excluding tail cave):
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4892/lamcoutlinemaphouses.png
The black outlined areas are accessible without a sword the red outlined areas are only accessible with the sword. The squares are 320x256 so if you want we could update that with the rooms as we make them.
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The archive I posted has distorted colors. Not that it CAN'T be used, it's just that it SHOULDN'T be used.
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ah, hadn't noticed that. I compared it with the TSR tiles and they seem right (the TSR ones). could we just turn those into tile sheets and use them?
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
^what about that? isn't that the ripped graphics from most of the areas?
EDIT: heres a map of all the overworld stuff that we need done:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5346/lamcoutlinemapk.png
and heres a map of all the underworld stuff (excluding tail cave):
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4892/lamcoutlinemaphouses.png
The black outlined areas are accessible without a sword the red outlined areas are only accessible with the sword. The squares are 320x256 so if you want we could update that with the rooms as we make them.
Nice maps, can serve pretty well as checklists. But let's focus first. There are a few questions that still need answers.
1) What program do we use to make the maps?
2) What file format do we make the maps and tilesheets in?
3) Where can we dump the ripped resources?
For question 1, Infin had offered to make a map editor, but I don't know if he is still interested and willing to do it. Additionally from what I've seen on the forum Xfixium has an 'Ocarina Room Editor' and Windy also has been working on a Map Editor. With these I don't know how usable they are. Jeod and I have been using GIMP in the past to work on a Koholinth LttP style. We code use that or Paint.NET, Photoshop or another graphics tool.
2) Will be mostly dependent on the first question, but if there are options. I would suggest JPEG, because it is smaller than BMP and I thought to have read somewhere that Gamemaker still has some trouble.
3) Is more address to site staff. But we could also make a separate topic for collecting ripped tiles. Or has someone some webspace.
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1) What program do we use to make the maps?
I don't see anything wrong with using GM to make the maps and then merging them into the main file. That's what I do but I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with it. I'm not too experienced in this kind of stuff so I'm sure theres some reason not to use GM for mapping.
2) What file format do we make the maps and tilesheets in?
^See answer 1
3) Where can we dump the ripped resources?
That one I'm not too sure on.
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Well this place won't be a resource dump. The file format should be png or bmp because it prevents color loss. (JPG will have color loss when it saves)
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
^what about that? isn't that the ripped graphics from most of the areas?
EDIT: heres a map of all the overworld stuff that we need done:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5346/lamcoutlinemapk.png
and heres a map of all the underworld stuff (excluding tail cave):
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4892/lamcoutlinemaphouses.png
The black outlined areas are accessible without a sword the red outlined areas are only accessible with the sword. The squares are 320x256 so if you want we could update that with the rooms as we make them.
Nice maps, can serve pretty well as checklists. But let's focus first. There are a few questions that still need answers.
1) What program do we use to make the maps?
2) What file format do we make the maps and tilesheets in?
3) Where can we dump the ripped resources?
For question 1, Infin had offered to make a map editor, but I don't know if he is still interested and willing to do it. Additionally from what I've seen on the forum Xfixium has an 'Ocarina Room Editor' and Windy also has been working on a Map Editor. With these I don't know how usable they are. Jeod and I have been using GIMP in the past to work on a Koholinth LttP style. We code use that or Paint.NET, Photoshop or another graphics tool.
2) Will be mostly dependent on the first question, but if there are options. I would suggest JPEG, because it is smaller than BMP and I thought to have read somewhere that Gamemaker still has some trouble.
3) Is more address to site staff. But we could also make a separate topic for collecting ripped tiles. Or has someone some webspace.
1. There will have to be stronger communication on this one. If the easiest way to do it is use GM and merge the rooms together than so be it. I think Infini suggested a room maker, but I don't think he meant he was going to create one. Although that would be swell. I personally have another room editor kinda like Ore that I'm working on, but more advanced. It's hardware accelerated, allows for many many more layers, and can export a project file directly to any GM project. Thus we could make a room with it and just hand it over to staff to export at anytime. It's just not finished. Also, Windy could have a card up his sleeve with his map editor.
2. jpg is right out. Yes it is smaller on disk, but as was pointed out, is a "lossy" format. To make things easy, .png should be the one and only image format we use.
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Not to argue or anything but Infini was considering making one:
* What program do we use to create the maps?
I could create a simple map editor if you wish. Its not a hard task.
Anyway, I think ORE looks pretty good, haven't used it much though. I'm assuming the other room editor you were talking about was GMare, that'd be pretty cool to use when you finish it, plus you said it was similar to GM's room maker so it wouldnt be hard for people like me to use.
I wouldn't mind sticking with GM for room design but thats just my opinion. Not sure if it would cause problems or not but we could just use various room editors depending on the mappers preference.
Also for dumping graphic resources, we could probably make an account on a image hosting site and use that.
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Even if we make a photobucket or boxnet account or something, odds are we'd just end up saving all the images to our hard drives and compiling them into our own little folders.
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yeah, thats usually what ends up happening, I've got a ton of stuff on my hardrive :P. I just figured if we set up an account we could give everyone access to the stuff so they could do what they liked with the files.
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basically I made a mediafire account to upload all my resources in a folder called "ZFGC Files".
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sounds good :).
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So do we make one account for all of ZFGC? Because that would kinda put the graphics section in the garbage.
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Why don't you just ask Infini for some space?
I'm sure he'd give the CP a sub-domain or something.
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that might work.
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BEHOLD! I don't think it will cover everything, but I did collect many things over the years. It hasn't been updated with newer things either like Miles' item sheet. Last time anything was added to it may have been...idk, December?
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mmwt22ujydj
(Forgot the link)
^what about that? isn't that the ripped graphics from most of the areas?
EDIT: heres a map of all the overworld stuff that we need done:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5346/lamcoutlinemapk.png
and heres a map of all the underworld stuff (excluding tail cave):
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4892/lamcoutlinemaphouses.png
The black outlined areas are accessible without a sword the red outlined areas are only accessible with the sword. The squares are 320x256 so if you want we could update that with the rooms as we make them.
Nice maps, can serve pretty well as checklists. But let's focus first. There are a few questions that still need answers.
1) What program do we use to make the maps?
2) What file format do we make the maps and tilesheets in?
3) Where can we dump the ripped resources?
For question 1, Infin had offered to make a map editor, but I don't know if he is still interested and willing to do it. Additionally from what I've seen on the forum Xfixium has an 'Ocarina Room Editor' and Windy also has been working on a Map Editor. With these I don't know how usable they are. Jeod and I have been using GIMP in the past to work on a Koholinth LttP style. We code use that or Paint.NET, Photoshop or another graphics tool.
2) Will be mostly dependent on the first question, but if there are options. I would suggest JPEG, because it is smaller than BMP and I thought to have read somewhere that Gamemaker still has some trouble.
3) Is more address to site staff. But we could also make a separate topic for collecting ripped tiles. Or has someone some webspace.
1. There will have to be stronger communication on this one. If the easiest way to do it is use GM and merge the rooms together than so be it. I think Infini suggested a room maker, but I don't think he meant he was going to create one. Although that would be swell. I personally have another room editor kinda like Ore that I'm working on, but more advanced. It's hardware accelerated, allows for many many more layers, and can export a project file directly to any GM project. Thus we could make a room with it and just hand it over to staff to export at anytime. It's just not finished. Also, Windy could have a card up his sleeve with his map editor.
2. jpg is right out. Yes it is smaller on disk, but as was pointed out, is a "lossy" format. To make things easy, .png should be the one and only image format we use.
Mine too is unfinished, unfortunately and I'm in the process of moving my code around, making it more organised. :(
Once it's done though it'll be kick ass. Although it doesn't have support for game maker, that can be added in through plugins and scripts.
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Sounds pretty cool Windy :). So where do we go at this point? We could start mapping in GM or ORE (whichever people are more comfortable with) until someone has a mapping program up and running.
Why don't you just ask Infini for some space?
I'm sure he'd give the CP a sub-domain or something.
Anyone up for asking Infini about that? I would but I'd have no idea how to ask or what specifically to ask for...
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Sounds pretty cool Windy :). So where do we go at this point? We could start mapping in GM or ORE (whichever people are more comfortable with) until someone has a mapping program up and running.
I've never tried ORE, but mapping in Game Maker is terrible IMO (even though that's the engine the game is being made in). I'd suggest waiting off for a bit or finding another temporary mapping program for now :x
I wonder if Infini would be fine releasing the map editor he made for LACOOP (I'm expecting a "ugh the coding in that was so terrible I want to recode it from scratch" respond from him). I'm sure the tilesets could be used in that and mapped fine, unless he made it specifically for LACOOP.
I found it really easy to map in.
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i don't see too much wrong with GM's room editor but I haven't tried much else so compared to all the other ones with tons of features it probably is pretty bad. I haven't use ORE too much but it seems pretty good. The LACOOP mapper is worth a try, you should ask him about it.
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Where can I find this ORE?
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Heres a link (not sure if its the newest version though):
http://www.pyxosoft.com/downloads/ocarina_room_editor_200.zip
And a cautionary post from Xfixium:
I must warn anyone who decides to use it for their own projects that it is a beta, and needs some testing on it's stability when exporting rooms to GM projects. I recommend you back up any game data before using.
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There are plenty of choices that we could use temporarily, the only thing we would have to do is just tile them again in whatever solution we come up with.
The main advantage of using an external editor would be in the object handling as if you were to map it in game maker, you wouldn't be able to place objects until after the files are merged into the main build, otherwise you would end up with duplicates.
Not really having looked at GMarc or Infini's editor it would be hard to say which would be the best option. I'm already biased towards mine, mainly due to features that I have in planning for it.
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Well, I think for now we should keep things simple and use GM, at least until you or Xfixium finish your programs.
Also, should I start a sprite topic? That way I can try to get together some character sprites while we work out the mapping programs and the tiles.
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Well, we could say that everyone can use the editor they like as long as they keep to the other guidelines. But I wonder if that doesn't give color issues in the end.
RyuKage2007: I already told you earlier, that it is fine to make a topic about the necessary NPC's or enemies. But just be carefull how you are going at it. NPC's (Mr Wright, Syrup, Marin and Tarin) that have an equivalent in MC should probably be ripped and not recolored.
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sorry, hadn't realized you said that. Just wanted to make sure I didn't get ahead of things again. I'll get that all set then. Some of the characters from MC are similar yes but some of them may need recolors/edits to be more like the actual characters, like the sprites for syrup earlier, they were ripped from MC then recolored to match syrup from LA.
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I heard something about the tail cave map being done, am I right? Can somebody point me to its direction? May use it for a DS homebrew or something...