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Author Topic: ZFGC Style Development  (Read 80754 times)

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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #200 on: March 30, 2010, 09:14:23 am »
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The only viable sort of leader for a project like this would be someone who created or is well-versed enough in the style to be and have authority on it. In the absence of that person, what constitutes a meaningful addition to the project is something that the group agrees to.

But yeah, the GM Minish Cap Engine, this, and King of Thieves are all separate entities. Even if I were to basically put a variation of the engine and this together, it wouldn't be the main effort - this is for spriting, the other is more coding. As users in this topic before me have said though, the best way to have something is to do something, which means that if you want this to continue the best way is to be a player in the game rather than a fan or a cheerleader on the sidelines.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #201 on: March 30, 2010, 11:39:41 am »
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I don't think there should be a leader as well, but I do think that you need people that can do some QC'ing. I do have some advice for having this project not result in a "see how beautiful it is (but not really practical or useful)" project. The 4 categories that FF described are good divisions, but the categorizing of the current tiles and sprites Random made is not good. Most of the CG1 stuff I would have placed in CG2. I think there are some ground rules needed before things get put in CG1. This is so that you would end up with practical and usable tile and spritesheets. Mockups and sprites statues are by definition worthless.

I give this advice from a coder perspective, because it is really difficult for a coder to program in impractical graphics to a game.


Rules for tilesets

Technical guidelines
1) Each tile is 16 x 16 pixels I would preferably see it in 64x64 or 32x32, due to high resolution screens in size, although world objects like houses can be made by combining specific tiles.

2) There is 0 pixel horizontal and 0 pixel vertical separation between tiles, first tile starts at <0,0>

3) Transparency color is: Alpha = 255 (or 0), Red = 255 (or 0), Green = 0, Blue = 255 (or 0).

Practical guidelines:
1) Object tiles, like houses, trees, rocks, signs, etc., should be separated from surface tiles, like grass, ice, sand, etc.
 
2) Each tile should be made with layering. Meaning that tiles that need to be drawn over Link should not contain pixels from a tile that needs to be drawn under Link. Make those pixels transparent. Vice versa is the same.

3) Animated tiles need a complete animation before considered complete. Consider water, wateredge, flowers, waving canopies.

4) No mock-up images in tileset sheets. If showing mockups make a separate picture.

Rules for Spritesheets

NPC guidelines:
1) A NPC needs to be drawn in all directions (minimum of 3: down, left, up)I would love to see 8 directions, including the diagonal ones.

2) A NPC requires at least the following animations: standing and walking. It should be fully animated before considered complete. Other animations maybe requested but not needed to be considered complete.

3) When a NPC uses an object or something it is preferable to animate the object separate.

4) Effects that accompany some animations should be animated separate.

5) Yes on the shading, but keep the ground shadow separate.

Objects guidelines:
1) Even though most objects are static, when they contain a animation those should be fully animated. Take for example a pot. It mostly stands, but it can be throw and destroyed. Lit torches are by definition animated.

2) Effects of some animations and the ground shadow, should be kept separate.

Enemies guidelines:
1) An enemy needs to be drawn in all directions (minimum of 3: down, left, up)I would love to see 8 directions, including the diagonal ones.

2) An enemy requires the following animations: Standing, walking, attacking, hurting and dying.

3) When the enemy uses an object/weapon the weapon should be animated separate from the enemy.

4) Effects and the ground shadow should be kept separate from the enemy.

Link guidelines:
Because Link has a huge sprite sheet on its own you could add them by ability/weapon.

1) Link needs to be drawn in all directions (minimum of 3: down, left, up)I would love to see 8 directions, including the diagonal ones.

2) The ability needs to be fully animated for all stages of its ability. Make recognizable separations between the various stages. For example the stage of a bow: loading, releasing, standing, walking.

3) When the ability uses items/weapons animate them separate from Link.

4) Animate effects and ground shadow separate.



Well this my advice from a programmers perspective. If you keep to these rules for CG1 criteria it would facilitate game developers a lot, because they don't need to edit them to be of some use in their games.


Now to give some comments about this style. I really don't like it. The tiles are nice with the exception that the water is to purple, but when you look at the faces of those hylians they are stale and expressionless. I would suggest making everything in a larger resolution (also a nice idea due to high resolution screens). But most of all those faces show no emotion or any kind of expression, even MC and ALttP have more expression, variation and detail in the faces.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 10:03:32 pm by Niek »
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #202 on: March 30, 2010, 01:33:51 pm »
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The tiles are nice with the exception that the water is to purple, but when you look at the faces of those hylians they are stale and expressionless.

Agreed. The water needs to be more blue. That bothered me a bit too. I never really thought so much about the faces, but yes, more expression would be good, if possible.

I also think it might be a good idea to separate Link's top half from his bottom half for animation purposes. As you said, pulling the bow back, holding it, and releasing it, would all work much better if Link was animated so that he could either be walking or standing with each action here.

(hope that makes sense. typed fast cause I gotta work :p)
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #203 on: March 30, 2010, 09:33:23 pm »
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The tiles are nice with the exception that the water is to purple, but when you look at the faces of those hylians they are stale and expressionless.

Agreed. The water needs to be more blue. That bothered me a bit too. I never really thought so much about the faces, but yes, more expression would be good, if possible.
It is possible if they choose to step away from the 16x16 tilesize that MC and LttP had. Making everything twice or four times as large would allow for more pixels in the face and thus more expression. But that is just a thought.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #204 on: March 30, 2010, 09:47:39 pm »
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2) There is 1 pixel horizontal and 1 pixel vertical separation between tiles, first tile starts at <0,0>

:x that's a horrible guideline for a few reasons; first of which being it prevents the developer from placing multiple tiles in one click. Second being usage. People using non-GM would have to remove the 1px separation from every one of those tiles to make it usable. From a programmer standpoint, it should be understood that the tiles are a certain size.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #205 on: March 30, 2010, 09:58:52 pm »
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I agree with Niek, we should make it larger so we can have more emotions, abilities, and seperation from MC style. As for Niek's guidelines, we would have to rework the other system to merge.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #206 on: March 30, 2010, 09:59:26 pm »
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2) There is 1 pixel horizontal and 1 pixel vertical separation between tiles, first tile starts at <0,0>

:x that's a horrible guideline

I know, it was an example. I prefer a 0px seperation as well. But most of those tilesheets already submitted have a 1px separation. I leave it up to the spriters to find their technical preferences. Although I advice a separation of 0px.

My most optimum technical preference is:
Tilesize: 32x32 px (with the character sizes to match)
Separation: 0px
Transparancy: Alpha = 0, Red = 0, Green = 0, Blue = 0.

And with characters a minimum of 4 directions, making it that the left side view is not a mirror of the right side view and vice versa.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 10:03:07 pm by Niek »
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DJvenom

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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #207 on: March 30, 2010, 10:09:57 pm »
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the best way to have something is to do something, which means that if you want this to continue the best way is to be a player in the game rather than a fan or a cheerleader on the sidelines.

Respect, Bloodfire... seriously one of the best quotes for the situation at hand.
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Mirby

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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #208 on: March 30, 2010, 10:15:15 pm »
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I would help, but I'm not that talented of a spriter, so I'll take the cheerleader role here. But, unless I'm mistaken, I did originally suggest the revival of this. That counts, right?
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #209 on: March 30, 2010, 10:29:05 pm »
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I would help, but I'm not that talented of a spriter, so I'll take the cheerleader role here. But, unless I'm mistaken, I did originally suggest the revival of this. That counts, right?
Same, I'm a coder not much of a spriter. (I'll try to help adust some sprites.) To be honest, the reason I'm trying to get someone else in charge of this is so I get out the Limelight. (People are shy on the internet too...) But serously, how can we work on something that you can't identify. I mean this is in choas! This isn't a style this is an organised mess...
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #210 on: March 30, 2010, 10:36:42 pm »
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Ahem... it's spelled chaos... I'm about ready to start proofreading your posts, Random.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #211 on: March 30, 2010, 10:38:55 pm »
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Sorry, that was a speed typo. Every time I use the Spell Checker, it messes up the post.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #212 on: March 31, 2010, 03:02:38 am »
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Okay, so I got the old rug (see attachments for all my images) and altered the inner rug design to work as an outer rug design and a possible puzzle abilities. The origional had 45 tiles. I exploited all it's possibilities (except of rhte origional outer rug) and made 79 tiles. They are all minor but needed. I used four colors from the ZFGC pallete and I also recolored the current ZFGC chest. I made a mockup of Tingles Tower from FSA using 10 rug tiles and replaced the normal chests with the recolored ZFGC chest. If you want I can make a mockup of what a puzzle like this may be. For me, I think you should start in a room with 3 floor rodes in a narrow path, one leads to 4 more and leads to 5 and etc, but other ones will be floos that are over pits. So its purely a puzzle that requires memory and dumb luck. We can also make like for example 3/10 paths lead to solid pathsbut overall, only one will reach the end. (Had to explain without visual help.)

Update: Okay, so I am working on a mockup of the Rug Puzzle. I'll show it here when I finish. (Doesn't have very much un-lazy-ness in it.)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:40:21 am by Random »
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #213 on: March 31, 2010, 04:56:38 am »
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Sorry for triple posting, but I made a mockup for the Rugs. The purple area are pits, but they show up on your screen as red. I was thinking that maybe you can see the pits if you have the lens of truth or maybe you can walk over these pits if you have that invisible cape from ALttP thtlets you walk on spikes. To near the end, you need to jump onto a correct sprite to reach the end, becuase some of the sprites are pits, so a Roc's Cape/Feather might be required. If we can sprite it, we can have hanging ceiling lamps like in Tetra's ship in TWW that allows you to jump from platform to platfrom so you can jump three pit sprites. At the bottem right, you see a trick that leads to a solid path that may end in a dead end or pits. You may take more than one correct path like in the middle to keep on trickings your player. I would've made more, but my trap pad is broken and I don't feel like hurting my thumb trying to move one sprite to another.

I also have a question. What do ZFGC style items look like? Do they just look like MC items? We also need to make more wall sprites becuase I lacked what I needed to make this mockup. I'll try to work on one.
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #214 on: March 31, 2010, 05:19:53 am »
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Did you forget to color some of the tiles in? It looks like a really symmetrical square explosion of some sort... Also, LTTP walls mixed with MC lanterns and ZFGC style tiles?

I'm sorry, but as someone who put up a front as not liking .Takam, but secretly admiring his artistic style, I'd rather see this project DIE thnn have it continued with any less quality than what was originally produced.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 05:22:42 am by DJvenom »
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Re: ZFGC-Style-2010
« Reply #215 on: March 31, 2010, 05:26:39 am »
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Random, will you just !@#$% off, already? You're like the annoying !@#$% kid down stairs that just needs to be shot in the face. Stop !@#$% taking liberties with !@#$% that isn't !@#$% yours, or get the !@#$% off of ZFGC.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #216 on: March 31, 2010, 05:31:52 am »
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Indeed; the whole point of this to begin with is to have a 100% original graphical style that does not use elements from other 2d games. Even further, it's about being responsible enough with the style to determine if what you're working on is a valid addition to it.

To quote Taka-

yah.. we can't have any official graphics
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 08:00:35 am by Mamoruanime »
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #217 on: March 31, 2010, 05:48:24 am »
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My most optimum technical preference is:
Tilesize: 32x32 px (with the character sizes to match)
Separation: 0px
Transparancy: Alpha = 0, Red = 0, Green = 0, Blue = 0.

I agree with separation and transparency, but I don't think a 32x32 tile size is a good idea.

Sure, it allows for more detail, but I just have a feeling that there aren't too many spriters that could handle spriting at a higher res, since detail becomes more of an issue then. It would make the chances of this project succeeding even smaller. I just think that the characters heads need a little fixing up (though the Goron's expressions already look great imo). Maybe my thinking is flawed, but I think it seems more logical to keep the tile size at 16x16.

Why should we up the res if Nintendo doesn't?
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Re: ZFGC Style Development
« Reply #218 on: March 31, 2010, 05:50:04 am »
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Ahem... it's spelled chaos... I'm about ready to start proofreading your posts, Random.
Stop trying to be me. I'm more me than ZFGC can handle. Find somewhere else to be a typographical nazi.
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There's such a double standard about religion in the modern world. Catholics can gather, wear white robes, and say "In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti" and be considered normal.

But if my friends and I gather, wear black robes, and say  "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", we're considered cultists.
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Re: ZFGC-Style-2010
« Reply #219 on: March 31, 2010, 06:16:12 am »
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I'm not trying to take lierties. > .> I'm actuly trying to run away from the limelight...
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