Hello Guest, please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: Free Speech is Dead in America  (Read 11727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2007, 08:01:44 pm »
  • *whistle*
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2224
Um, someone said something about a social-society being better than a capitalistic...
What exactly do you mean?  Because throughout history, there are quite a few attempts to make a social society and they all failed.  That's if you are thinking the same way I am.  I think Rapl Waldo Emerson tried it...I think,if I remember correctly.  There's another author who wrote about it and it's falling in two years.  It seems good at first.  Put some in;take some out.  Pretty soon, people take more than they give and the system begins to corrode and fall apart.  People once again look out for number one.  I wish it was as simple as everyone points out.
Again, I am only stating this if you are thinking about a social-society as I am...

Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

Also, the thing with capitalism is that we have grown so accustomed to it, we may think we want somethingelse but the minute someone changes it, we freak out.

Because Americans are selfish bitches.

I personally wish America would go to a Republic.  That way if people do not like how things are run, they can blame no one but themselves.  At least in a true republic, everything is voted on by the people.

Which would be highly impractical. You'd need a referendum on EVERYTHING, how would you get anything decided?

Even worse, what if you had to reach a compromise? E.g. one group of people say "kill all kittens"; suddenly, you have to compromise with them... and kill half of the kittens. Pretty extreme, but it's just an example of how compromises can be pretty !@#$%.

Big business could not really get involved(even though there still are ways).

How naive are you, really? Of course they'd get involved.

The masses would be held accountable for their decisions.  We are kind of that way but we elect officials instead of direct vote.  I am tired of people bitching about their leadership,when they are the ones who put the leaders there.
"Waaa..George Bush sucks!"
You put him there.  When the people think they made a bad choice,they throw it at someone else.

But Bush didn't win the popular vote. More people, in pure numbers, voted democrat.

Even worse, the Republicans were drafting legislation in the run-up to the 2000 election, in preparation for the possibility that Bush would win the popular vote but lose the presidential vote, that would give them some leeway for the fact that the majority wanted him. Of course, the exact reverse happened, and guess what? The legislation was scrapped.

Freedom of religion(ie separation of church and state will be a joke)

As far as the republicans are concerned, it always has been.

Right to bear arms(people are easier to control when they do not have weapons...no brainer)

No, people just kill each other less often when they don't have weapons. "Right to bear arms", my ass. More like "Right to have weapons for the sole purpose of killing someone". It's a ridiculous, outdated law that should be completely repealed. All that !@#$% about needing guns to protect your family from people with guns - guess how those people got guns, huh?
Logged
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2007, 08:09:13 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +12/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4849
Do you not understand?  If we lose our right to bear arms, that will not bring down crime.
Criminals will still get guns.  Criminals will also know that no one will have a gun to stop them besides maybe the cops...ooooo...  Breaking into banks,homes, etc would be easier.

Oh, and lol...The part I was saying about a social society, I was thinking more about something else not a diverse community or something like what you were talking about.  Just misunderstanding.
Logged
  • Super Fan Gamers!
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2007, 08:15:43 pm »
  • *whistle*
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2224
Do you not understand?  If we lose our right to bear arms, that will not bring down crime.
Criminals will still get guns.  Criminals will also know that no one will have a gun to stop them besides maybe the cops...ooooo...  Breaking into banks,homes, etc would be easier.

Yes we have such a huge problem in countries where guns are illegal with gun crime you know i can't even go out onto the street because i totally might get shot

Or uhm.
Y'know.
Not.

In the short run, yes, there might be minor teething problems, and people may need to keep baseball bats by their beds.

In the long run, PEOPLE WON'T GET SHOT ALL THE !@#$% TIME BECAUSE NO-ONE WILL HAVE GUNS.

How can you not understand the upside of that?
Logged
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2007, 08:24:44 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +12/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4849
I see what you are saying,but just because maybe 1-3%(just an example) of a population has a criminal background with gun violence does not mean you punish everyone else.  I enjoy hunting.  Is hunting needed?  It's about to be for me.  Can I hunt without a gun? Yes.  But, I enjoy hunting with a rifle more than a bow and arrow.  Seriously(this may seem conspiracy theory), if you take the guns out of people's hands, what's to stop your government from taking total freedom's away?  What are you going to retaliate with?  a baseball bat?  That is a total extreme, I know.  I'd rather look at the glass half empty than half-full.  I very much understand your point of view and I respect it.  I wish the world was not so...uncertain I guess.  If I was not worried about getting mugged or attacked or whatever, I would not mine stricter laws on my right to own a gun.  I still would like to have a rifle to hunt with.  But as long as I still have to be aware of people who wish to hurt others, I want to be able to protect myself.  Police officers where I live do not do !@#$% for protection.  A lot try, but most do not take the effort.  They are concerned about pensions and their pay and filling their ticket quota.  I do not trust my law enforcement to protect me anymore.  Sorry.

But, I still understand your position, Pyru.  I hope you understand mine.
Logged
  • Super Fan Gamers!
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2007, 08:44:42 pm »
  • IBV
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1075
I see what you are saying,but just because maybe 1-3%(just an example) of a population has a criminal background with gun violence does not mean you punish everyone else.  I enjoy hunting.  Is hunting needed?  It's about to be for me.  Can I hunt without a gun? Yes.  But, I enjoy hunting with a rifle more than a bow and arrow.  Seriously(this may seem conspiracy theory), if you take the guns out of people's hands, what's to stop your government from taking total freedom's away?  What are you going to retaliate with?  a baseball bat?  That is a total extreme, I know.  I'd rather look at the glass half empty than half-full.  I very much understand your point of view and I respect it.  I wish the world was not so...uncertain I guess.  If I was not worried about getting mugged or attacked or whatever, I would not mine stricter laws on my right to own a gun.  I still would like to have a rifle to hunt with.  But as long as I still have to be aware of people who wish to hurt others, I want to be able to protect myself.  Police officers where I live do not do !@#$% for protection.  A lot try, but most do not take the effort.  They are concerned about pensions and their pay and filling their ticket quota.  I do not trust my law enforcement to protect me anymore.  Sorry.

But, I still understand your position, Pyru.  I hope you understand mine.

If you are going to retaliate, you would produce the guns anyway, since you wouldn't listen to the govt/law anyway.

Maybe the police is being lazy because they know/assume that most people are already capable of "protecting" themselves?
Logged
My signature is empty.

Swoftu

Super Fighting Robot
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2007, 09:19:48 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3096
Quote
Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

You say that pure socialism itself is successful, but instead you give us examples of mixed economies? facepalm.jpg


Quote
Also, the thing with capitalism is that we have grown so accustomed to it, we may think we want somethingelse but the minute someone changes it, we freak out.

That makes no sense, since america is a mixed economy.


Quote
Because Americans are selfish bitches.

You're such a rebel.  8)
Logged
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2007, 09:44:03 pm »
  • IBV
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1075
Quote
Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

You say that pure socialism itself is successful, but instead you give us examples of mixed economies? facepalm.jpg


Err.. socialism does not necessarily mean plan economy or even "not market/mixed economy". Many countries in Europe are socialist, social democratic to be more specific.
Logged
My signature is empty.
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2007, 10:15:17 pm »
  • *whistle*
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2224
Quote
Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

You say that pure socialism itself is successful, but instead you give us examples of mixed economies? facepalm.jpg

I say nothing about "pure socialism", but look up the definition of socialism (first paragraph from the Wiki article):

Quote from: Wikipedia
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community[1] for the purposes of increasing social and economic equality and cooperation. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.

In most of Europe, there is a strong policy towards the redistribution of wealth from high-income earners towards those with lower-incomes; not only this, but redistribution of resources away from the wealthy towards being equally provided to the whole community (e.g. socialised healthcare). It's a general policy in society that those who can support themselves help support those who can't; it's the very core idea of socialism as opposed to a pure free market.

Quote
Also, the thing with capitalism is that we have grown so accustomed to it, we may think we want somethingelse but the minute someone changes it, we freak out.

That makes no sense, since america is a mixed economy.

It's one of the most free market economies in the developed world. Any claims at it being a true mixed market are (relatively) unfounded. Admittedly, it's not a pure mixed market but government intervention - especially towards things such as the redistribution of income (tax cuts for the rich? What the !@#$% were they smoking?) and social services (no healthcare? What the hell?) - are decidedly absent, and as such, the whole economy leans towards the free market.

Quote
Because Americans are selfish bitches.

You're such a rebel.  8)

No, I'm British. Didn't you hear we hate you guys? :P  ;)
Logged

Swoftu

Super Fighting Robot
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2007, 10:34:45 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3096
Quote
Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

You say that pure socialism itself is successful, but instead you give us examples of mixed economies? facepalm.jpg

I say nothing about "pure socialism", but look up the definition of socialism (first paragraph from the Wiki article):

Quote from: Wikipedia
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community[1] for the purposes of increasing social and economic equality and cooperation. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.

In most of Europe, there is a strong policy towards the redistribution of wealth from high-income earners towards those with lower-incomes; not only this, but redistribution of resources away from the wealthy towards being equally provided to the whole community (e.g. socialised healthcare). It's a general policy in society that those who can support themselves help support those who can't; it's the very core idea of socialism as opposed to a pure free market.

My point was that Mixed market isn't socialism. Mixed has social aspects to it, but it still isn't socialism. You're saying Socialism is successful, but what you should really be saying is that the Mixed system is successful.

Quote
No, I'm British. Didn't you hear we hate you guys?

You guys are still bitter about that damn tea?   :P
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 10:40:26 pm by Swiftu »
Logged
Re: Free Speech is Dead in America
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2007, 10:40:01 pm »
  • *whistle*
  • *
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2224
Quote
Socialism exists and is actually quite successful. If you wanna see examples of large, mixed-market economies that are successful, look no further than most of the EU: the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. all have HUGE public sectors.

You say that pure socialism itself is successful, but instead you give us examples of mixed economies? facepalm.jpg

I say nothing about "pure socialism", but look up the definition of socialism (first paragraph from the Wiki article):

Quote from: Wikipedia
Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community[1] for the purposes of increasing social and economic equality and cooperation. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.

In most of Europe, there is a strong policy towards the redistribution of wealth from high-income earners towards those with lower-incomes; not only this, but redistribution of resources away from the wealthy towards being equally provided to the whole community (e.g. socialised healthcare). It's a general policy in society that those who can support themselves help support those who can't; it's the very core idea of socialism as opposed to a pure free market.

My point was that Mixed market isn't socialism. Mixed has social aspects to it, but it still isn't socialism. You're saying Socialism is successful, but what you should really be saying is that the Mixed system is successful.

A socialism based mixed-market, as the key concept is not to increase economic prosperity but instead social prosperity.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up

 


Contact Us | Legal | Advertise Here
2013 © ZFGC, All Rights Reserved



Page created in 0.207 seconds with 57 queries.

anything