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[2awesome4apossum]

2awesome4apossum

Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

This isn't a debate at the moment, but it will undoubtedly turn into one, so I'm going to post it here.  I'm going to post a list of faulty arguments that have all been used on me at this forum at some point.

Faulty argument for someone to use if they're against capital punishment but pro-abortion choice (does not apply if you're against both):

(1) Capital punishment is wrong.  The system is rigged, and it's gonna kill more black people than anyone else.

True, although statistically black people commit more capital crimes.  Also, based on this logic, abortion is also rigged, because more black babies get aborted than white babies.  Did you know the KKK actually approves of abortion clinics?  And it's not because all the white people are getting their babies aborted.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kkk+abortion

The first few results are interesting.  You might want to look at them.

Faulty argument for someone to use who's for the legalization of marijuana:

(2) If you tax it, and the government is in control of it, the legalization will decrease users and over time we could eventually do away with most mainstream use.

This shows a lack of clear thinking, and obviously comes from the mind of a pothead.  Not only does it show blatent ignorance reguarding a luxury tax, it just doesn't make sense.  All it does is put a government reliance on the luxary item that's being taxed (in this instance: marijuana).  If the government is taxing something, they're relying off of it to make revenue.  In example: the reason that cigarette smoking will never become illegal is because there's SO much revenue being made by the government on taxing each box.  If we take smoking away, everyone else's taxes go up, because the government would need to majorly compensate.

Faulty argument that could be used for just about anything, and has been used on me a hundred-million times on this forum:

(3) Don't impose your morals on everyone!

One way or another, a moral is going to be imposed.  So I'd rather it be mine than yours.

That's all I have for now, because my attention span is failing me.  Feel free to use your threads to post more faulty arguments, we can discuss the validity of them, and whatnot.  Just try not to make the faulty arguments, clear and obvious ones.  Please refute carefully thought-out ones, much like my first two (I added the third one for a sole purpose of going out with a bit of a zing).

In example, don't argue points that no one would bother to address in an actual debate (Further, "Fautly argument: Gay people = will kill our children." would be a stupid thing to post, because we all know why this is wrong).

[EDIT] Also, please only refute cleverly crafted faulty arguments that have been used on you in this forum (meaning ZFGC, from '03 on).

[Swoftu]

Swoftu

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

Oh the irony.

Mod Edit: Oh the lack of content. Very short and not very contributing to the debate in cause. Please remember that next time.

[Pyru]

Pyru

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

Faulty argument for someone to use if they're against capital punishment but pro-abortion choice (does not apply if you're against both):

(1) Capital punishment is wrong.  The system is rigged, and it's gonna kill more black people than anyone else.

True, although statistically black people commit more capital crimes.  Also, based on this logic, abortion is also rigged, because more black babies get aborted than white babies.  Did you know the KKK actually approves of abortion clinics?  And it's not because all the white people are getting their babies aborted.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kkk+abortion

The first few results are interesting.  You might want to look at them.

No, statistically, more black people are found guilty of capital crimes. Not quite the same. The idea that capital punishment is not intrinsicly racist does not make capital punishment any better, either way.
Also, ad hominem: Just because the KKK approves of one thing must mean it's wrong? Hitler approved of providing employment and building roads. Does that mean that all employers and road builders are in the same league as Hitler?

Faulty argument for someone to use who's for the legalization of marijuana:

(2) If you tax it, and the government is in control of it, the legalization will decrease users and over time we could eventually do away with most mainstream use.

This shows a lack of clear thinking, and obviously comes from the mind of a pothead.  Not only does it show blatent ignorance reguarding a luxury tax, it just doesn't make sense.  All it does is put a government reliance on the luxary item that's being taxed (in this instance: marijuana).  If the government is taxing something, they're relying off of it to make revenue.  In example: the reason that cigarette smoking will never become illegal is because there's SO much revenue being made by the government on taxing each box.  If we take smoking away, everyone else's taxes go up, because the government would need to majorly compensate.

The government tweaks budgets all the time. In the long run, yeah, maybe the government might actually use that money for something, like paying off the huge budget deficit that the US currently has. Once the deficit's gone, BAM, hike up the tax rates for cannabis to unacceptable levels for consumers, then wean them off it. Problem solved.

Faulty argument that could be used for just about anything, and has been used on me a hundred-million times on this forum:

(3) Don't impose your morals on everyone!

One way or another, a moral is going to be imposed.  So I'd rather it be mine than yours.

Wouldn't you rather it be one that actually aims to keep everyone happy rather than a priveleged minority? Wouldn't you rather it's a moral that acts in the interests of the freedoms of everyone, rather than justified by the moral held by a few?

[2awesome4apossum]

2awesome4apossum

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

No, statistically, more black people are found guilty of capital crimes. Not quite the same. The idea that capital punishment is not intrinsicly racist does not make capital punishment any better, either way.
Also, ad hominem: Just because the KKK approves of one thing must mean it's wrong? Hitler approved of providing employment and building roads. Does that mean that all employers and road builders are in the same league as Hitler?

You're ignoring my argument.  It's not about "it's bad cause the KKK supports it".  I mean, OBVIOUSLY that's not necessarily the case.  But my point is: if capital punishment is wrong because it's racist, then you might want to look at how abortion is inherintly racist as well.  I'm not saying capital punishment is good.  I'm not saying abortion is bad.  I'm not saying you can't be for one, and against the other.  I'm saying that if you use the 'racism' form of logic, though... you might want to take a step back and examine the facts about BOTH.

The government tweaks budgets all the time. In the long run, yeah, maybe the government might actually use that money for something, like paying off the huge budget deficit that the US currently has. Once the deficit's gone, BAM, hike up the tax rates for cannabis to unacceptable levels for consumers, then wean them off it. Problem solved.

Life doesn't work that way, and we both know it   (Besides, it would only encourage more illegal usage in getting it black-market style.)

Wouldn't you rather it be one that actually aims to keep everyone happy rather than a priveleged minority? Wouldn't you rather it's a moral that acts in the interests of the freedoms of everyone, rather than justified by the moral held by a few?

The last one was more of a joke.  Obviously Swiftu has a hard time understand conservative sattire (even though I pointed it out in the very same post), but that doesn't mean you have to.  Of course we have freedoms.  We have the freedom to virtue or vice.  I'm not going to make anyone "be good".  But I really hate it when people go "don't impose your morals on everyone!"  Because it just doesn't make good sense to impose a moral by that logic.  See the irony in *that* statement?  It's a poor way of phrasing what they're trying to say.

[Dantztron 3030]

Dantztron 3030

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

(3) Don't impose your morals on everyone!

One way or another, a moral is going to be imposed.  So I'd rather it be mine than yours.
[EDIT] Also, please only refute cleverly crafted faulty arguments that have been used on you in this forum (meaning ZFGC, from '03 on).

Haha, classic possum <3

I like Ronald Dworkin's stance on the issue: a Constitution, by all rights, has to be biased; it reflects the moral constituency of its people. Of course, that doesn't mean reason can't be factored into it and that compromises cannot be reached.

well i dont have that system and it is very hard to care about everything when you are single

[Kyubi]

Kyubi

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

Oh the irony.

Mod Edit: Oh the lack of content. Very short and not very contributing to the debate in cause. Please remember that next time.

I lol'd.

Mod Edit: So did I, because you're not exactly doing much better in the "Content in Post" department.

Gannon-banned brother.

[Gaelber]

Gaelber

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

Wouldn't you rather it be one that actually aims to keep everyone happy rather than a priveleged minority? Wouldn't you rather it's a moral that acts in the interests of the freedoms of everyone, rather than justified by the moral held by a few?

But is there actually a set of universal morals that works every time? What is accepted and widely used in one culture could be reviled and considered a travesty in another. Slavery used to be rationalized by the fact that Europeans believed that the Africans were culturally inferior. However, a few centuries later, those involved in the abolition movement upheld the culture as something to be admired for its emphasis on emotions and feelings.

[thibledorf]

thibledorf

Re: Some Interesting Faulty Arguments Refuted

What I love is that saying, "Don't impose your morals on everyone!" is imposing a moral. 
I love when people say things that are so obviousley hypocritical like that.
It is just so fun picking appart what they said. 

Ya I'm a show off.