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Author Topic: My theory about Gamemaker  (Read 5739 times)

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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2008, 04:15:45 pm »
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 19, 2008, 04:07:42 pm
The whole source is dumped into the RAM? That sounds terribly inefficient...
You thought GM was efficient? >.>
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 04:21:32 pm »
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Quote from: Infini on June 19, 2008, 04:15:45 pm
Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 19, 2008, 04:07:42 pm
The whole source is dumped into the RAM? That sounds terribly inefficient...
You thought GM was efficient? >.>

Not really, no. But I still that took me by surprise :)
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mit
Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 05:10:23 pm »
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Quote from: Mamoruanime on June 19, 2008, 03:07:01 pm
Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 19, 2008, 03:02:26 pm
By hackable I think people mean you can easily rip off the source because essentially (as I understand it) it's just bundled in the .exe and read from by the .exe :)

^Yeah; what happens is when you run the exe, the source is dumped into your ram. A simple memory reader can pull the sourcecode of your GM exe
Try it on my arcade game. The important code is protected from the standard way of hecking it, if I remember correctly.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 06:55:46 pm »
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Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 05:10:23 pm
Quote from: Mamoruanime on June 19, 2008, 03:07:01 pm
Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 19, 2008, 03:02:26 pm
By hackable I think people mean you can easily rip off the source because essentially (as I understand it) it's just bundled in the .exe and read from by the .exe :)

^Yeah; what happens is when you run the exe, the source is dumped into your ram. A simple memory reader can pull the sourcecode of your GM exe
Try it on my arcade game. The important code is protected from the standard way of hecking it, if I remember correctly.
There will always be a way around it. Its the same with all programs really, its just a matter of how long you want to try. GM just make it significantly easier.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2008, 08:33:33 pm »
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Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 02:52:02 pm
If you do manage to heck it, please feel free to tell me how, because so far no one's succeeded, to my knowledge.
Originally, I had accepted your challenge. Then I noticed that it didn't run on Vista. ::)
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mit
Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2008, 10:19:41 pm »
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Quote from: Infini-Is-Bored on June 19, 2008, 06:55:46 pm
Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 05:10:23 pm
Quote from: Mamoruanime on June 19, 2008, 03:07:01 pm
Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 19, 2008, 03:02:26 pm
By hackable I think people mean you can easily rip off the source because essentially (as I understand it) it's just bundled in the .exe and read from by the .exe :)

^Yeah; what happens is when you run the exe, the source is dumped into your ram. A simple memory reader can pull the sourcecode of your GM exe
Try it on my arcade game. The important code is protected from the standard way of hecking it, if I remember correctly.
There will always be a way around it. Its the same with all programs really, its just a matter of how long you want to try. GM just make it significantly easier.
Try it. As I said, not impossible, but just because it's game maker doesn't mean it's easy.

Don't get me wrong though, compiled languages are obviously better. I'm just saying, if you know how to use it properly, it's not nearly as insecure as people make out.

Quote from: AcidGame on June 19, 2008, 08:33:33 pm
Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 02:52:02 pm
If you do manage to heck it, please feel free to tell me how, because so far no one's succeeded, to my knowledge.
Originally, I had accepted your challenge. Then I noticed that it didn't run on Vista. ::)
Ah yeah, Gamemaker 6. I've been meaning to update them, I just can't be bothered to wade through all the yoyogames crap.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2008, 10:23:53 pm »
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Quote
Try it. As I said, not impossible, but just because it's game maker doesn't mean it's easy.
Actually it does, most of the structures it stores its data in have been decompiled, and there is a great deal of documentation of the file format out there. It makes it significantly easier to determine how the information is stored and to use a crude phrase 'heck' it. As apposed to a completly compiled propriatory game or application whos file format would have to be decompiled from scratch.

I'm not saying its easy mind you, you will still have to have some idea of what you are actually doing. But it does make it easier overall.

Either way I don't have the time or intrest to try and heck it. I know its possible and thats enough for me.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 10:26:57 pm by Infini-Is-Bored »
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2008, 11:47:58 pm »
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Mit, the DLL we used to try to make some of the scripts more secure isn't even compatible with GM7.

I have to agree with these other guys.  GM is pretty good at what it's designed to do if you know how to use it, but it wasn't designed to compete with real programming languages.  It just can't match their efficiency, security, and functionality no matter how you look at it.  Clever coding can give you a small boost in efficiency, and I could think of a couple ways to increase security for some resources, but there still isn't a whole lot you can do to secure your code.  GM definitely has plenty of functionality for making a good game, but if you keep using it there will come a time you wish you had a bit more low-level access to some things.


Game Maker is a great tool for casual game developers who are just doing it for the fun of making games, and aren't too terribly concerned with efficiency, and security.  I love GM because of how easy it is, and how much you can really do with it.  You can do a lot more with GM than a lot of people are willing to give it credit for, but anyone who plans on making a career out of game development/programming should really use a more professional language.  It hurts to say it, but professionals see GM as more of a childrens toy than a programming tool.  Asking for a job as a programmer with only GM on your resume would be comparable to asking for a job as an architect with only "designing bird houses" on your resume.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2008, 01:19:36 pm »
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Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 02:52:02 pm
If you think it's too easily hackable, you should check out some of my arcade games, eg: http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
While I'm not saying it's unhackable, several thousand people have downloaded it and there isn't a single fake (or at least, unbelieveable) score on there. If you do manage to heck it, please feel free to tell me how, because so far no one's succeeded, to my knowledge. It was mainly just to filter out "n00b hackers" though.
Just to let you know, I hacked it... I hope you have a way of deleting that highscore.
http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
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Quote from: Jason
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mit
Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2008, 04:22:51 pm »
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Quote from: Darklight on June 22, 2008, 01:19:36 pm
Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 02:52:02 pm
If you think it's too easily hackable, you should check out some of my arcade games, eg: http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
While I'm not saying it's unhackable, several thousand people have downloaded it and there isn't a single fake (or at least, unbelieveable) score on there. If you do manage to heck it, please feel free to tell me how, because so far no one's succeeded, to my knowledge. It was mainly just to filter out "n00b hackers" though.
Just to let you know, I hacked it... I hope you have a way of deleting that highscore.
http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
:D Excellent. Did you alter the value of your score in game, or crack the submitting thing?
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2008, 11:59:15 pm »
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If a simple Decompiler wont work, than open up a RAM editor. Mit, what does ypur DLL do?


Also, this has been said before, but Code isnt event driven. I find it easier to code with them, so i usually end up making functions like ev_objLinkStep.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2008, 04:35:26 am »
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Quote from: mit on June 22, 2008, 04:22:51 pm
Quote from: Darklight on June 22, 2008, 01:19:36 pm
Quote from: mit on June 19, 2008, 02:52:02 pm
If you think it's too easily hackable, you should check out some of my arcade games, eg: http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
While I'm not saying it's unhackable, several thousand people have downloaded it and there isn't a single fake (or at least, unbelieveable) score on there. If you do manage to heck it, please feel free to tell me how, because so far no one's succeeded, to my knowledge. It was mainly just to filter out "n00b hackers" though.
Just to let you know, I hacked it... I hope you have a way of deleting that highscore.
http://www.kousougames.com/games/ZeldaSpaceInvaders.php
:D Excellent. Did you alter the value of your score in game, or crack the submitting thing?
Decompiled it, and made it add 9999999999 To your score before it submits.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 11:28:50 am by Darklight »
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2008, 10:40:41 am »
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I think we got alot off topic here.

The theory is that is it possible to make your own events?

It's not

"Why is gamemaker not for commercial?"

I have said that I am learning Java and C++ and I was even doing this at 7:50 in the morning (I get the train). The reason for this theory is so I have something to show about Gamemaker before I make the leap from non commerc to commercial.

Understand? If not just tell me.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2008, 11:14:17 am »
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well I'm sure that trying to create your own events would result in hecking into GM. I personally don't know how, but I would suspect that it would void your registration ...
What program would be the best to make games in normal languages? Because after reading everyone's comment, I realize their right...
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2008, 11:17:40 am »
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Quote from: Mewgull on June 23, 2008, 11:14:17 am
What program would be the best to make games in normal languages? Because after reading everyone's comment, I realize their right...

...Visual C++? Code::Blocks? The command line?
Using GCC or the Visual compiler?
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2008, 04:05:30 pm »
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Quote from: gamefreak202 on June 19, 2008, 01:14:59 am
Not really...(about the sames problem thing) MMF and clickteam eats gamemaker for breakfast. If MMF has a problem, its you doing something wrong.

No.  I used Clickteam's products for 4 years before I moved onto game maker.  It is NOT any better.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2008, 08:40:51 pm »
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Laig, explain one event you wuld like to create, and I'll tell you how.
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Re: My theory about Gamemaker
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2008, 10:32:17 am »
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Quote from: Laigonaz on June 18, 2008, 07:10:33 am
The link? They all require the programmer to make the events.

Create
Draw
Step Event

Wish me luck :D

Code: [Select]
public class object
{
    private Image sprite_index; //This would be public in GM but GM sucks
   
    object()
    {
        Create(); //Call create on creation just like in GM
    }
   
    private void Create()
    {
        //Init code
        Step(); //After create event, start running Step
    }

    private void Draw()
    {
        getGraphics().drawImage(null,0,0,sprite_index); //Draw sprite index
    }
   
    private void Step()
    {
        while(true)
        {
            //Any code to be executed always goes here
           
            Draw(); //Update graphics as often as step is called
        }
    }
}

Well Java has you beat. With the nine billion action/event listeners already made for you you're set. If you wanted you could have every single event in GM placed into the Java class after some work =]
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 10:48:55 am by AoDC »
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