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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

We seem to be making progress!

I really like the idea of the Shadow Cloak, though being invisible to enemies in addition to the other qualities may be a bit too much. I think just statues and walls is enough for this item. We don't want it to make the gameplay too easy. The item order also makes a lot of sense.

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

If we do implement the cloak, it can always be limited.  We can draw some inspiration from the TF2 spy if needed!

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

On the topic of the Shadow Cloak, you could do something along the lines of a "Mask of Truth" + "Invisible Cloak" type of ordeal. Have it be a, inverts illusions, makes you invisible, but makes other traps, otherwise undetectable, such as certain enemies, a threat. If there were a ghosty-esque enemy, just for example, that you could only see, and would only attack you while you wore it, but you had to wear it to get through a tricky, illusion filled dungeon, that might present an interesting challenge. (Wow, I just now actually read that bit, DoNotFeed xD, great minds think alike, no?)

The goron drill appeals to me, but that would mean you'd either end up with a Pkmn Mystery Dungeon esque, "Imma dig holes through all this dirt" or it would feel incredibly limited in use, imo.

I think the bow should definitely be a core item, perhaps no slingshot, but definitely the bow. I wouldn't do a, "We're gonna have Fire Arrows, Ice Arrows, Light Arrows, Normal Arrows, A Slingshot, a Slingshot that shoots Deku Nuts, whatever. I'd personally do 3 arrow types, and screw the slingshot. Ie, Normal, Fire, Ice, what have you.

I have so many good ideas that I'm currently using for someone elses Zelda fan game, and I wish I could divulge here, the Maks of Lies being one of them, but you'd already mentioned something like that, and I would love to give you all the details, but I'm under confidence. I'll keep an eye on this more closely, I just skimmed it a minute ago, and see if I get any ideas.

Oh, and hey, I'm back!

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[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Dark Hylian, well, first, it's just Max, haha, and second, I'm totally with you about the bow/slingshot, I don't think both would work either, I just picked slingshot because it's used less than the bow. But that's probably because the bow is cooler. So let's just change the slingshot to the bow.

As for the limitations of the shadow cloak, I figured invisibility to some because it's a sheikah item, and therefore has to do with stealth and secrecy, not just passing through walls, because you can do that with bombs, too. That's another thing I kind of worry about, that it'll just be like, there are some walls you bomb through, some you drill through, and some you use the shadow cloak to get through. I don't want it to be, here's a dead end, which type of wall is this? So that functionality of the shadow cloak shouldn't be stressed, I don't think, and more stress should be out on how it interacts with illusions.
It puts you in the realm on illusion, which means that some illusions manifest themselves, for example, invisible chests and doors, and walls show that they're actually fake. But also, some wraiths inhabit this realm, and attack you only when you're in it.
The boss of the sheikah dungeon could be like this, a boss that looks kind of like Gomess or whatever from Stone Tower Temple. A wraith that shifts back and forth between the realm of illusion and the realm of the living, and you've got to follow him through these shifts with the shadow cloak. The only way to damage him when he's in one of the realms is with the statues you control. Like that big spider boss from the dominion rod dungeon in Twilight Princess.
Anyway, my other thought on this is that there should be some sweet animation of Link spinning the shadow cloak around him and putting it on, then turning partially invisible or something as a little shockwave thing goes out from around him altering things that are illusions. Or maybe that'd be too much if you have to out it on and take it off a lot.
Also, the cloak should totally look like the one Zelda wears in Twilight Princess.

Oh, but the point I was going to make about the shadow cloak to begin with before I got sidetracked by ideas is that maybe it shouldn't make you invisible to all enemies, especially animal enemies should still be able to see you, but I think it should make you invisible to people or at least some more human enemies, like guards maybe? Perhaps you have to do some sneaking in Gerudo valley once or twice, but then if you want to go back, instead of having to go through the same old motions over and over, you could put on the shadow cloak and just walk through. It does use up lots of magic, though...

Also, Dark Hylian, I think that the Drill would only feel as limited in use as the mole mitts did in MC. They were fairly useful in lots of spots, because the mole caves were all over the overworld. I think that's a lot of how items seem important, in by having puzzles and secret places in the overworld that make use of items you get and use a lot in a specific dungeon. You know what I'm sayin'?

Finally, I don't know if this is entirely up the item group's alley, but the chests in which you receive rupees should DEFINITELY have the function where you put the money back if you can't carry it. I don't know how many times in Wind Waker I'd have a full wallet, do some crazy puzzle, and be rewarded with 200 rupees that go entirely to waste. Or maybe we could do something where if you find more money than you can carry, it gets teleported to the bank. There could even be some comical scene where if the banker is tingle or that one eye Poe guy, they could balloon/teleport next to you can say, I see you can't hold that much money, why don't I take it off your hands? And then presumably they'd go and invest in something shady.
Or we could just make it so you could carry thousands of rupees. The problem is when you find lots of rupees but don't spend many and then waste lots when you're rewarded with them. That needs to be fixed, I think. Again, maybe not entirely related to items, but I dunno.

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Dark-Hylian, are you interested in hopping onto this group?  If so, I can pull out of it and focus on getting the dungeons group back on track!

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

MG, sure thang. I'm a tad busy, but I'll dish out my 2 cents whenever I have them, and you'd probably be more useful in the dungeon design.

@ Max: I know what you mean, especially the money bit; also I find it a bit funny, but in the game I'm helping with, the goal is to have each item be universally useful, and not limited to a dungeon, which is something to consider. But anyways. I don't like the idea of three methods of wall-bashing. In the game I'm working on, there are two, one of which is bombs, the other is a replacement melee (used instead of sword and shield) item, and two is definitely enough. The cloak however,  should be something like, there are places where its meant to be used, and perhaps have it not drain magic power while you're in say, a shadowy corner. The presence of these spots in the overworld would indicate some use that it would have, ie, sneaking past gerudos or guards as you say. I like the idea of not completely invisible, but either way, if you bump into an enemy, they should be able to like, react.

Chests should definitely have a "Total Money Contained" system, where you could take as much as you could hold out; this might even allow for mutliple objects from one chest, if people wanted to go there (which is not something I'd look for in a zelda game, but isn't out of the question."

Also, have there been any Equipment such as tunics or boots suggested?

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[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

So, I started to write up another edition of the Shadow Cloak item, but I think it'd be better if you wrote one up. Like the format I've been doing is:
Name
Where found
What happens when you press the button, precisely, does something else happen if you hold to button.
Applications
Restrictions, such as MP consumption.

What I'm seeing with the shadow cloak right now is a lack of a main function. Does it make you invisible or not? Is the main function going to be interacting with statues, or is that less important? Is the main thing to interact with illusions?

Also, slightly new take on the cloak, we could call it the Illusion Cloak, or keep it shadow cloak, they're both cool, and say the main function is that you take on the qualities of an illusion? For example, the statues you control could, perhaps, not actually move, but rather when you control them you give the illusion of movement to them? Actually, I don't know how that would work, really. This is probably the most undeveloped idea I've posed so far, but you know, just trying to brainstorm.
I do kind of think that the best way to do it would be to take the theme of illusions and run with that for the cloak. It would also create a theme for the sheikah dungeon, with you gaining the cloak of illusion and using it to eventually get the cog of truth. I mean, they don't have to be called that, but...


Other thoughts I've been thinking include that perhaps the magnetic gloves could be the main item of the Zora dungeon. Then, the item you get before entering the Goron Mines would be the power bracelet, which allows you to lift heavier items than you could before. The question would be, if we used the power bracelet, would it work like OOX, where it's a button item, or MC/OoT, where you can just lift heavier things than you could before. Personally, I'd opt for MC style, because it was always really annoying to have to switch items to the power bracelet just to pick up a pot. Or, a new idea I just had would be that the power bracelet is equippable to different things: your arms would allow you to lift things, the bow would shoot further, your sword would do more damage, etc. I don't know of this is a good idea, though. I wouldn't use it, if it were me.

Also, since nobody else had any other suggestions for items, I was thinking Roc's feather/cape (my favorite item) could be the item you get to enter the sheikah dungeon. It's familiar, but agile like the sheikah.
Also, I was thinking that an alternative to that would be the item you get before entering the sheikah dungeon could be the fire and ice arrows, probably found by infiltrating the Gerudo fortress or whatever they have.

Or/also, I had a thought about the spinner since people were talking about jumping around of roofs earlier, which I don't think would work very well in 2D Zelda unless there was a separate map with close together roofs, that when you were on a roof, you would use the spinner's dash like function to go over ramps that could jump you to the next roof. That way, the places where you jump could be controlled from where, to where, and how far. Of course, this is a little weird, but what do you think?
And also, the jumping thing could be accomplished by only allowing Link to jump from roof to roof by climbing on stacks of boxes or what have you and jumping only from there. After all, jumping from too low means you wouldn't have the height necessary to make the distance.


Anyway, in regards to equipment, nobody's said anything. I mentioned a breathing water thing for the Zora dungeon, but didn't specify. It could be flippers, and honestly, I think that might work best. Equipment such as boots and tunics hasn't really played a part in 2D games, other than Pegasus boots, which don't really function as equipment in this sense. We could do red and blue tunics, but I don't think that's really necessary, and would require a lot more sprites. The only point of those tunics was to limit access to certain areas, and we can limit it other ways, probably more easily.

So I think as far as equipment is concerned, we're only looking at things like power bracelets, flippers, and maybe some items that increase defense, like the tunics in ALTTP did.
Which kind of morphs into another topic for discussion, which is the flippers or whatever, what should those be. I think a lot of it depends on whether or not you can swim at all without them. Here's my idea, I'll presume that you can't swim without them, but of you could then they'd just allow the dive feature, like OOA's mermaid suit.

Flippers
Given to you by the Zoras in order to rescue more royalty/get into the Zora dungeon.
Equipment, not a press the button item.
Once you have the flippers, you can swim and dive. Swimming is standard Zelda, you blub blub along, press the action button to dash, b button to dive. Diving in shallow water lets you dodge enemies. But diving in certain deep waters lets you enter another under water map, like OOX and pokemon's HM dive.

The under water parts could be either side scrolling or like other maps, or perhaps some of both. Personally, I'm all for being able to use your sword while diving, but not swimming, both on side scrolling maps as well as top down under water maps. Most other items wouldn't work; however, some would.

Opinions?
Also, sorry for the absurdly long posts.

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I agree that all items should have one, main function. I think it might make more sense to have one item that makes you invisible to enemies and another that controls statues. How do you like this idea?

Shadow Cloak

• Found in a cave whose location was "clued" to you by a Sheikah soothsayer living on the edge of the Valley of Death near Goron Mountain. The cave where the cloak is found is actually behind Hyrule Castle.
• Pressing A toggles the cloak. No other buttons affect it.
• The cloak makes you invisible to all enemies, however the boss of the Sheikah dungeon can hear you, so using the cloak will only temporarily confuse it.
• The cloak drains MP.

The Something Flute

• ???
• Pressing A plays the flute. The nearest statue in range will be activated. Link will halt movement and the arrow keys can be used to move the active statue. Pressing B goes back to Link. Pressing A while a statue is active performs an action differing with the statue.
• The statues can be used for various puzzles. A statue may break barriers or harm enemies. Another may provide weight for a switch. Another may fly or jump high to retrieve something or just to reach an otherwise inaccessible switch.
• ???

The idea is definitely a WIP, but I could see it work.

I agree about the flippers, power bracelet, and rupees.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

So my thinkings on getting this organized would be: all item suggestions have to fill out a form xD This cuts down on the ammount of items that won't work, or are potential, leaving only those with a good solid basis. For example (totally fake):

Name: Bombs / Bomb-bag

Where / How Obtained: The bombs are obtained in the Goron Mines dungeon, after beating the mini-boss, Tottoringo. When he is defeated, a chest appears containing a Small Bomb-bag, which holds up to 20 bombs. From that point forward, any bombs the player collects, from chests, bushes, shops, monsters etc, are able to be stored in the bomb-bag for later use. They are purchasable from these vendors: Bilbo in Mordor, Darth Vader in Death Star, and Paul in Dune.

Primary Use: The bombs are used mainly as an explosive, which allows the player to blow open cracked walls and destroy boulders. They are also used as a mass-attack weapon. Their explosion can injure and cause knock-back to any enemy it touches, making it useful for dispatching hordes of smaller baddies, or dealing a hefty blow to a stronger one.

Secondary Uses: As bombs are able to be lifted and thrown or placed, they can be used to briefly hold down switches, for example, so that the player can get through a gate, and then when the bomb explodes, the gate closes behind them, perhaps opening another. They are also able to light certain torches and braziers, when placed carefully nearby.

Other Notes: The bomb-bag can be upgraded in size, from 20, to 50, to 99, throughout the course of the game, by methods such as mini-games or sidequests (Do another report for each upgrade too!).



Hopefully, if an adequate report could be filled out for each item, then the examining process would be a lot easier. That way, it wouldn't be a matter of guessing, to determine what exactly it would do, or where you would get it. And each item could also have an updatable, official "bio" page, perhaps all in one post, where CONCRETE changes to their report and description are applied. This "bio" would include WHERE you get it / get more of it, WHEN you get it - in the whole grand scheme of things, WHAT it does, as well as WHY you need it, and HOW it works. If these can be answered, the task then simply becomes, which ones would work, and which ones wouldn't.

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Okay. That's done. Anywho, I don't like the idea of a power bracelet applied to more than one thing, but that's just me xD Also, the spinner thing, with like, upgrades, sounds a bit weird to me, but again, just my opinion. Jimn, I like the format, and the ideas, but personally, my absolute, 100% least favorite item in the whole zelda series to date, was the Dominion Rod. Not to shoot down a possesion type item, I'm just saying that it would need to be a whole lot more... entertaining and worthwhile. It could be done, and done well, it would just take some thought.
My personal idea for the MAIN FUNCTION, in like, 3 words, for the Shadow-Illusion Object, is "Reversed Illusions".

I suggest the following:

Stealth: Link is able to move without detection, possibly at a reduced movement speed, or loss of the use of other items.
Illusion "Switch": Link is now able to see and detect many hidden traps, and ghostly enemies; however, (a la Dumbledore, HP1) this power causes him to become less aware of normal, mundane traps. (This would be fun to implement, doing things like perhaps blurring holes and spikes, making enemies and obstacles less opaque, kind of reversing the ghostly feel, as if he's stepped out of life, and into a ghost realm.)
Cost: The cloak would definitely have some draw-back, be it gradual magic drain, necessity to keep to the shadows, sort of like Phantom Hourglass's safe-zones, greatly reduced movement speeds, lack of other item use, ruppee drain, I don't know. That could be decided.

Those are just my three points on how the thing should operate. In a word, it switches Links perception, giving him sight of ghosts and illusions, but detatching himself from the more corporeal objects and obstacles.

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[.]

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Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I think too much thought is being put into one item. The Shadow Cloak should be simple as any item. It would be much easier to implement and not too strange to the player. We wouldn't want there to be so many rules about its use that the player has to try to remember them. We also don't want so many limitations that the player is better off without the cloak. I really think it would be best if the cloak made you invisible to enemies (though getting close some could hear you) but unable to use items.

The possession item I think would have a very different purpose from the Dominion Rod. It would function similarly, but have different statues. In TP, statues were basically only used as weights and occasionally hammers. KoT would have a variety of statues with various abilities. Here are some ideas:

• A jumping statue
• A flying statue (that can't change elevation, just fly over large gaps)
• A statue that can be grabbed by a hookshot/grappling hook (if they are used)
• A statue used as a platform

There could be a lot more, and they could be used in puzzles. I think that would be really interesting.

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

About the item write up style, I agree with the detail of that format, although I can't say how we'll work out the details of things like who would sell bombs when nothing else about the game has been defined except that there are bombs, haha. I think perhaps that should be a different topic, where we post the results of this topic in a main post, the agreed upon items. So once we have items we agree upon, we'll agree upon the exact write up and then post it in the other topic.

On a couple minor things, Dark Hylian, I don't like the idea of equipping the power bracelet to different areas either, it was just an idea. Scrapped?
Also, I still like the idea of the spinner being given a little plot significance (like, the Gorons built this, it was under stewardship of the royal family when Link stole it), and then working as a vessel to allow the dogs to function as items. I just really want to cogs to do something other than... Allow you to go to the next dungeon. If you feel this way, and can think of a better way to implement it, by all means, pitch an idea, even if it sucks. The more ideas, even if they suck, the better.
My rational for choosing the spinner as an item that can facilitate the cog's use as real items that do something is primarily their shape- they're both gear shaped. I was thinking you could steal the unassuming spinner at first, and it's kinda handy, but you don't realize what it is you've stolen, until later you find out, after gaining the first cog, that the reason the royal family had it in the first place was because it was related to the cogs.

Well, anyway.

So, no offense Jimn, don't think I'm just shooting you don't because I don't like the dominion rod, but I still don't like the idea of it, even if it had more statues. Because the dominion rod wasn't just limited by how many types of statues there were, it was the fact that all it did was control one specific thing, and had no other uses. You could use it in battle, and it only solved very specific puzzles. Not like an item like the bow or hookshot, which have many applications in battle and lots of types of puzzles.

But where the dominion rod was going, controlling statues, that had potential, if it was more than just that. So I combined it with an invisibility cloak kind of thing, because it was sheikah stuff. But then it was illusions and stuff too, and it got out of hand. But on their own, invisibility cloaks and dominion rods are kind of useless. I'm not dismissing the dominion rod, but... It needs to be more.
What about if we had some kind of 'charge' rod, that was a combination of dominion and cane of piccai? It could send out a charged energy wave which has different effects- still as simple as any item, press the button to shoot a wave, but it's effects are as myriad some Zelda items like bombs, it could power up some lights or statues, it could flip things that can't hold a charge and are therefore sort of overloaded by it. Because these items, dominion and piccai, in my opinion, suffer from a statues of "is that ALL it does?" this item, however, doesn't really fit with the sheikah dungeon as well as the Shadow Cloak. Not that it really has to, I guess (boomerang in Jabu Jabu? Hover boots in shadow temple? Of course, I HATED getting the hover boots in the shadow temple...)

What I'm thinking now is because the cloak was actually just one idea I gave for example that was expounded upon, does anybody have any other ideas for a sheikah item? If so, we could probably use more to work with. Besides limiting ourselves to, how could this work, go back to, what could work?

With the new ideas thing being said, I am quite fond of the blurring effect that highlights illusions that dark Hylian suggested. it's sort of like how the one ring happened, at least in the movies, all the surroundings got blurry and moving, and the Wraiths took on a whole different form, which I interpreted as their true form. This is how I'm picturing the shadow cloak. It's hard to see enemies, but they don't see you. You can't see holes, however, you do see the truth of things, so you can interact with illusions that way. We'll need to define what illusions would be like that you could interact with, though. I was thinking making some invisible things visible, like chests and platforms, maybe doors. Sheikah Wraiths (this ghostlike enemy we've been alluding to). The hard part is making things that manifest their true nature, in other words, stuff that looks like different stuff, not gimmicky, and practical. Probably showing the bosses weak spot and stuff, but not sure how it'd apply to regular gameplay. How would we use this item in Hyrule field, or a little cave with 50 rupees in it?

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I agree wholeheartedly that all of the cogs should be applied to an item, and there's an idea for the Power Bracelet. Have it literally be a Power-up Gauntlet (that you stole from the treasure room, cuz its like... gold.), where you attatch a cog, and can use its power. I don't know what the powers are, but perse, like, an "Impact" one. When you used the Gauntlet with that cog in, either to attack or when you swung your sword or something, have it do more damage, maybe more knockback. Whatever. I think they should either be equippable or applied. For example, if the Gauntlet were the Bow in TP: You could equip the Bombs to it, you could equip the hawk-eye to it, etc. It should probably be a passive effect, like the Hover Boots etc, which I agree, were a stupid thing to get in a shadow dungeon. I also think the cogs should do more interesting things than just, upgrade you. Perhaps an "Air Cog" gave you a jump button or something, like, not just "Make Link Invincible!!!" effects, give them a purpose. If a cog gave Link the ability to lift a larger rock, or to Swim, if you don't want flippers /dive if you dont want diving originally, those would open up a HUGE array of areas and features that could be added. Each one could have a general effect, and a status effect kind of things: "Blue Cog" gives Link the ability to swim and dive. It also gives all of Links damaging attacks a chance to restore Magic Power. Stuff like that. That way, it wont feel like, "Oh, I'm using this to beat this dungeon, then wont ever see it again until the final one." You would use it all the time, if you enjoy just using magic arrows, or stuff of that sort. I could come up with plenty of ideas.

As for the "Dominion Rod", I have an idea. Do you remember the Switch Hook from OO(S I think it was)? Perhaps, you could have this.

Name: Switch Rod

Where / How Obtained: This item is a reward from a quest, before a dungeon that involves its use, as well as the White Cog and other items to complete. Blah de blah.

Primary Use: The Switch Rod "fires" a ball of energy, and when that energy hits, Link warps to the spot on which it landed, at the cost of a large ammount of magic energy. This does not work through walls, etc, only through open air. However, if the ball of energy hits something such as a pot, or rock that Link can lift and place ordinarily, not counting enemies, he and the object will switch places. This can be used to traverse gaps.

"Secondary" Uses: Not really a secondary function, but a major addition to the first. While Link can use it to "Warp" or "Transfer", as we'll call it, to a different spot, replacing what ever was there first, he can fire it at a WIDE array of statues, as well as some enemies. If the ball of energy hits the statue, Link won't warp to it, but will be able to control the statue; each type of statue will have a distinguishing feature, whether they are able to be stood upon, can break certain gates, or are heavy enough to stop obstacles such as "Rolling Spike Logs". These features depend on the statue. While Link is controlling the statue, he is unable to move, as the Statue becomes the new controller object, and trying to move Link moves the statue.

Other Notes: This effect does not consume Magic Power until the process is complete, so if you try something clever, and it doesn't work, you wont lose Magic, you just have to have the appropriate ammount before attempting it. As well, certain enemies could potentially be controlled, ie, Armos, or other Machine / Statue esque baddies. As well, transfering to a new spot does not displace the enemies there, and they are able to attack you.

If we could get an effective system working, I feel like this could have a few really cool implements, allowing Link to jump across pits that would otherwise be inaccesable, or to maneuver statues to his bidding. However, it would have to have sufficient, unparalleled use for Warping, not Transfering. Otherwise, it would just turn into a nuisance, like the Dominion Rod. He would have to be able to warp effectively, and make it ACTUALLY useful, especially if he is given a jump button. Perhaps if it were also able to be used on certain tiles, allowing for it to switch between different rooms. OR - new idea just occured - Link actually controls the shot, which flies above the ground, and when you press the button again, it tries to warp you. That way, you could use like, Orb Holes to warp to different rooms, like the Piccori holes in Minish Cap. Just a thought.

Edit-

Oh the cloak, yes. It is very much like the One Ring. Perhaps a malevolent miniboss esque creature could prowl around, and scare the bajeebers out of you until you get this - buffed up poes? and then once you have it you could fight it, instead of having to avoid and run. It would probably be more use in the civilized areas, as Sheikah probably had a hand in their construction, so if like, the Castle had a basement, that led into a catacomb, where the Sheikah Temple was, you could do a buttload of exploring there, as well as in other, like, Ikana-esque areas, if we have them.

The sheikah wraiths or whatever could be just, like, wandering around, one per area you havn't conquered yet and whatnot. ^
And, at night, ghosts could come out, or, totally ripping the Shadowgazer off here, people could like, turn into ghosties and ghoulies, when they're having a bad dream / their area is still corrupted / messed up / in twilight. I figure it would be sort of like "Sensing" as a wolf, but when you do, you're invisible to the stuff that you're not "sensing" ie, poe would see you, cat would not. etc.

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[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Well, for what the cogs do, I don't think it should be as general as an "impact" one that adds power to some items. That seems to much like a stats booster thing, which is kinda un-zelda. If you go back to the fourth page of this topic, I posted some proposed ideas, which I'll briefly outline. The attacks were all done by equipping the cog to the spinner, like how fire/ice arrows were equipped to the bow in OoT, and holding the spinner button to charge briefly to use the cog's attacks. They all used up some MP to attack.

Forest Cog - makes tornadoes which stun enemies or blow them away, and also boot you up in specific places (like some tornadoes in MC's cloud tops). Also makes the spinner move faster.

Ocean Cog - This one I was kind of unsure of. It made some kind of water attack, I guess. Also, when equipped, it allowed the spinner to traverse currents you couldn't swim through without drowning, to get you to inaccessible places. Also makes the spinner's dashes last longer.

Stone Cog - Causes an earth quake which stuns or damages enemies, also raises or lowers specific rocks/earth, to allow you access to areas. Also slows the spinner.

Shadow Cog - Causes an attack that stuns/damages enemies as well as temporarily dispels illusions, like the lens of truth would do. Can't remember what effect this cog had on the spinner's movement...

So I thought they'd be cool if they worked with the spinner, but honestly, they would be like the medallions of ALTTP and just work on their own, as independent items. One issue we may run into, but I'm sure could overcome, is relating the cog's abilities to the respective dungeon would mean you wouldn't get that power until you'd finished that dungeon. So making the cog allow Link to swim, and then getting it after the water dungeon, well it seems like a waste, because Link wouldn't be able to do things in water until after he'd gone through a water dungeon designed around the fact that he couldn't swim while going through it. That's why the abilities I chose were kind of like bonuses. They didn't make useless any other items because of their power, or even give you too much power, but could be useful in a few puzzles for some bonuses, and gave you some advantages.


So anyway, about this dominion-ish rod, unless you're opposed to having the hookshot in the first dungeon to move around on the canopy, etc, then having a switchhook AND hookshot seems... redundant. The switchhook (OoA, by the way, haha, they're some of my favorite Zeldas : ) was basically a different version of the hookshot that had a little more strategy along with it when it was used, but less situations in which it could be used. I think the fewer situation outweighed the increased strategy a lot.
Personally, I think some important Japanese guy either doesn't like the hookshot or else is on a mission to improve it, because it's seem a few other incarnations that seem to be testing how it could be different in any other way, being the switch hook, grappling hook (which was different enough to be it's own thing), and clawshot.

Of course, if you'd rather not use the hookshot... well, I'll argue with you, haha. I really like it, it's one of my favorite items of all.

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Points you have there. I agree that a warping tool would probably kill the hookshot, which I'm not okay with, hookshot for definate, anyways, I have some Cog theories.

First: Cogs should either be used as a single item (Dins Fire, Nayrus Love, all separate, single items) or equipped to use with a control object, ie, equip one and use a spinner or whatnot to activate.

Second: I don't really understand why the spinner would be used at all. Aside from the fact that yes, it looks like a gear, it doesn't really click with me. I feel that something more "related" to a King of Theives setting would be appropriate, I don't know, a Gauntlet, or maybe even the Shield he uses. I don't think riding around on a mechanical object that is just a slightly longer Roll is worth it, when the powers of the upgrade would be usable by a different Item. Or, even bind the equipped Cog to the "Attack" button, you know, in OOT, whenever you'd roll it'd say Attack instead of Roll? Have the power be bound to that, or something.

Third: What the cogs do now make them sound more like weapons than useful tools. Aren't they the Key to the Clock? I feel as if they should be less "Imma beat you with a Cog" and more, "Win, I can use this to get to _____ now! or I can beat _____ with this!" Plus, the Shadow cog needs to be reworked if we're using the cloak.

Cog Ideas: (Assume they're all bound to a the "Attack" from OOT, so most are enacted on a roll or something.)
Most of these wont fit dungeons in the game, but are just ideas, I'm throwing a BUNCH out there. (Also, most of these would be difficult to assign Magic Power costs to, as they are more passive bonuses.)

Earth Cog : Allows Link to lift larger than average rocks. Rolling into an enemy causes the enemy to become stunned, or if like a Rock-Chu is wearing its hat, to break that as well. (Think of the rolling into walls etc as like Dashing at them in MC, but with more stuff.) (Allows Link past previously unmovable obstacles.)

Sky Cog : Allows Link to walk on Clouds. Rolling is replaced by a flipping leap, which can still let him knock into walls if he hits them, etc, but allows him to ascend over ledges and the like. (Think MC's Roc's Cape + A sword Jump without the Sword; Allows a new sword move to be learned). (Allows access to places such as MC's Cloud Tops.)

Volcano Cog : Allows Link to withstand Extreme Heat (ie, Red Tunic from OOT). His roll now leaves a trail of flame that can burn grass and enemies that walk into it before it fades, and light dark rooms. Also does damage if he hits an enemy while rolling. (Slug Trail from MC + Fire = this, pretty much) (Allows access to Volcanoes such as Death Mountain Crater in OOT).

Ocean Cog : Allows Link to swim, (or if he can already do that, Dive, ie, breath underwater - OOS/OOA?) Also prevents him from being set on fire (still takes damage from running into it, but no more silly "OHMAGAWDIMONFIYAAAAH!" issues. (Allows access to Watery Areas.)

Nature Cog : Allows Link to Climb Vines and Cliffs,(a-la Power Bracelet MC). It also makes his normal Roll go a bit farther. (Probably the first cog in the game, allows him to shamble around like a monkey.) (Used to access the tops of cliffs, areas in dungeons and in the overworld, and to increase travel speed).

Shadow Cog : (Note: Use either this or the Cloak, not both.) Phases Link out of reality, allowing him to observe ghosts and illusions, while dulling his awareness of the real world around him. He is unable to roll in this state. (Pretty much the Shadow Cloak, but simpler, and in Cog Form.

-------------------------------------------------

Anyways, those are my ideas, and I feel they'd work well, but not as Items, perse, but as, I completed the pre-quest to doing this dungeon, now I get a cog! type thing. They should be equipped one at a time, etc, and you shouldn't neeeed to switch too often. It's not going to make fighting impossible if you want to keep your Nature Cog up all the time. The only one that is actually perilous would be the Shadow Cog, while the Fire one might need to be toned down (make the trail like a, on the block where he started the roll, kind of thing.)

Whatever, that's what I think.

• 

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

On a small detail... Well, actually kind of important, in the game design information topic, it says there are four dungeons. So only four cogs, or is that topic not actually relevant and I'm just not up to date? Because I do that sometimes, it can be a problem...

Well, I think we've actually mostly agreed on how the cogs work, it just doesn't look like it. The only things we aren't down with are how the cogs should be used, and then the specifics.
from my point of view, I don't see how they could work with the roll command, that seems kinda awkward to use for puzzles bcause rolling is hard to control, or be precise. Know what I mean?. Or maybe I don't like the way they'd be stat boosters, because Link never really has had stats in any way, other than damage his sword does. He either has an ability or not.

I'll explain the spinner again, too. I was proposing having the spinner having been created by the Gorons to work with the cogs when they made them, and then link stealing it without knowing its potential until he gets a cog. So initially, it could have functions as a cool dash, as well as doing what it could in TP, open those certain switches. And Link could be like, why does the weird gear thing I found open doors in these temples related to cogs? And the he learns, OH, they're built to work together, so the bearer of the spinner could get the cogs to open the clock. That's why it can open these doors. And that's why through the spinner, the bearer of the cogs can manifest some of the power that's in them to aid him in his quest.
Or it could have less plot significance. That plot stuff was just an idea, and a little Zelda-cliche. By which I mean cliche, but in a way that you'd expect and probably like in a Zelda game.

I understand that I'm proposing turning one of the least liked Zelda items into probably the main item of king of thieves this way. But I liked the spinner despite its sort of not too usefulness in TP, so I kind of want to give it another chance. Like what were doing with the dominion rod, another chance ther by combining it with another item, invisibility cloak or cane of piccai or switchhook. But I understand that this might be too much of a chance, like, giving it too much significance.

As for it's "relevance" to KoT, I don't understand. I thought the spinner seemed really thief-y. Thief-ful. Thief-esque. Haha. But it's a game being made up, it's as related as we decide it should be!


All that defense of the spinner said, the cogs would work great like Dins fire or the Ether Medallion, as you mentioned. I was imagining the cogs WOULD be attacks. Because its not like, I'm hittin' yo with this cog! It's like, I'm using this cog's magic properties to aid me in my quest to bring them to where they're designed to fit! The whole point of this was to make the cogs useful as items, unlike the medallions, pendants, triforce pieces, essences, siren's instruments, elements, pearls, fused shadows, and whatever you got in the Zelda games I haven't played or forgot, about at the end of a dungeon that you couldn't use but desperately needed.

So I still like the spinner, and yes, it'd be a big, "related" item to King of Thieves, somewhat like if the Rod of Seasons was optional in Oracle of Seasons. Because the powers of the cogs would be useful, and get you through puzzles, but we don't have to make those puzzles necessary, unless we use them to say, the spinner only opens this door if you have this cog equipped, to ensure linear dungeon flow. And yeah, choosing the spinner as an item to tie them to isn't necessary, I just liked it.

So a good compromise if you don't like the spinner probably would be just making them like ALTTP medallions. What do you think?


PS, my favorite of your cog ideas is that Link leaves a trail of fire when rolling. Haha, it so awesome! But I still don't see how some of those (like picking up rocks?) would work with rolling. And some of them negate other items (Roc's cape, power bracelet), but are more confusing then other items... But I really want something to cause Link to leave a trail of fire when he rolls!

[Dark-Hylian]

Dark-Hylian

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Most of these wont fit dungeons in the game, but are just ideas, I'm throwing a BUNCH out there.

I was just suggesting things xD If there were only four dungeons, then we'd obviously not use like 8 cogs, only four or five. The one thing that's not clicking with me for your method would be the reliance on something that is pretty much the equivalance of rolling, which is why I used it as an analogy. The spinner in TP sent you about as far (depending entirely on if you sat and charged it all the way up, or on the slope face you were on) as a roll. If KoT Link has the ability to roll, then it seems kind of silly to tie them to a secondary roll. In TP, the spinner had a defined purpose, which was, ride the gear tracks and spin mechanisms to acheive things like an open door.
What I'm failing to see in KoT, is how either of those would be incredibly useful, considering it would be a heck-of-a-ton harder to do, I mean, with square corners, you're going to have a fun time riding around Stallords circular room, for example. The doors thing could work, but from what I've read so far it doesn't sound like you're including that. Anyways, it, to me, just doesn't seem like a feasable item.

However, what you seem to misunderstand, is that I'm not suggesting new attacks, or power-ups (in a sense.) What I'm suggesting is more like tunics, the ideas I gave yesterday were rough and unfinished, etc.

In MC you got the power-bracelet to climb cliffs.
In OOT / "MM" / MC / ALTTP / etc you get a method of swimming.
In MC / OOT / OOA / OOS you got a method of jumping.
In ALTTP / OOT / MM? / etc you got a method of becoming stronger, so as to lift certain things.

What I suggest that the cogs do, is provide more of a passive effect when "equipped or whatever." That doesn't mean that when you use a "Spinner" with one up, it won't change its use; I'm just trying to cut down on the need for excessive quantities of items, while making the cogs significantly useful for progression to other areas. In OOT, you needed the tunics to enter and beat dungeons, and you needed the Power Bracelet and Goron Bracelet to enter and beat dungeons. In OOT, you could already swim, but in almost all of the hand-helds, Link can't, at least right off the bat.

What I suggest, is, instead of having a list that looks like this, of accessories:

Hover Boots - allows you to hover, making you have reduced friction as well.
Forest Cog - makes tornadoes for jumping and attack and increases the speed of the spinner.
Power Bracelet: lets you climb climbable cliffs.
Goron Bracelet - lets you pull of Bomb Flowers (and lift bigger rocks?)
Silver Bracelet - lets you pull massive blocks and stuff.
Stone Cog - lets you "raise and lower certain rocks" etc, while slowing the spinner, while causing an earthquake.
Iron Boots - makes you slower and heavier, enough to sink to the bottom of water.
Ocean Cog - lets you travel across water and through currents (a-la pokemon's Whirlpool?), while providing a water attack.
Zora Tunic / Flippers - lets you swim and dive in water that is deep enough.
Cloak of Shadows - lets you swap realities, obscuring the physical and revealing the ghostly aspects of stuff, also makes you 
                             invisible.
Shadow Cog - does an attack that stuns enemies, and dispells illusions.


Granted, I made that sound as convoluted as I could, after just waking up, but my point stands. Rather than that, I suggest something along the lines of this V. However, when I say used, I'm thinking, the little "Jump" attack the spinner had in TP, not just getting on it (the Dash, as I refer to it.)

Forest Cog: Lets you climb vines, cliffs and other such things. It increases the Spinner's non-dashing speed. When the Spinner is used (the Dash) with this active, it launches a tornado in front of it, which moves, and slows down, and stops, before fading a second later. Useful for stunning enemies, or jumping into to access new areas. (The tornado would, if it encountered a hole, ie, Cane of Paccai, it would last longer, and be gone when you jumped into it.

Stone Cog: Allows you to lift, push and pull previously unmovable stones, and perhaps makes him sink in water. It decreases the Spinner's non-dashing speed. When the Spinner is used (the Dash) with this active, a shockwave pulses around the spinner, not too far, but far enough to be effective., causing enemies to be stunned, or if they're too cool for that, take damage. All enemies (except those immune) take knockback from running into this shockwave. This can also crack-split-then-shatter rocks that one might have needed Bombs for.

Ocean Cog A (assuming Link can't swim): Allows Link to swim. The spinner is now capable of travelling over water, though when the time runs out, you plop down into it. When used, the Spinner emits a whirlpool of watery stuff, allowing it to go faster (Dash) on water, and to break any whirlpools it hits / gets stuck in. This whirlpool of water stuff also knocks back enemies.

Ocean Cog B (Assuming Link can swim): Allows Link to swim BETTER!, ie, swim through PKMN-esque currents, and or Dive, allowing him to get stuff of the bottom and swim under obstructions. Same Spinner stuff applies, but it does damage and knock-back.

Shadow Cog: (I don't like the idea of this one too much, as a whole.) Allows Link to walk on "Ghostly Platforms", ones that you can't see without the Shadow Cloak up, and can now walk on - as well as either increasing the "Range" of the Cloak, ie, Lens of truth style 75% of the screen circle to 100% of it, OR increasing the light area around Link in dark places, a-la MC's Temple of Droplets. This allows the spinner to travel on "Ghostly Platforms" as well, and either does not affect the speed, or makes it go faster when the Shadow Cloak is being used.

That's all I have for the Shadow Cog, cuz I really just don't see that one working well =/ The water one all depends on whether or not Link gets something like flippers. That pretty much sums all the cogs up into a Link Bonus, and Passive Spinner Bonus, and a Spinner Dash Bonus.

And that way, all we really have is one item, with four (and a half) effects, + a neutral bonus for Link. Changing them shouldn't be much of a problem, unless you're a die hard, MUSTUSEWATERSPIN ALLTEHTIME person, and then you're kinda in for it, but other than that, I think it would work well with a hookshot, bow, boomerang if we have one, etc etc etc. What do you think?

• 

[MG-Zero]

MG-Zero

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

If possible, can a somewhat solid foundation on items be ready in 2 weeks?  Main quest items at the least.

i love big weenies and i cannot lie

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

I'm pretty sure we can, MG. I actually wrote out a full length post yesterday, but it got deleted before I posted it and I was disheartened, so I just went on with my life and had my trebuchet launching party. Eight foot tall trebuchet with 250lb counterweight is great for launching squash like twenty yards. Pumpkins were a bit of a challenge for it, though. Amazingly, no cops were called!

Anyway, yeah, I missed that bit about the throwing of ides. Haha, also... I finally realized what you've been saying, I think I just had a block about the spinner because I liked the gear motif so much and much earlier, people were talking about the spinner, etc. I'll bring the spinner and cogs up later, for now, how about these:

EDIT: I changed the order a lil' bit, I think this will work better. Obviously, opinions are welcome and encouraged, from functions of items to order to suggesting different items, etc.

Note: I'm sure there will be a couple items that you receive while in Hyrule town, before leaving on your quest to go to dungeons. I don't know what these will be yet, but probably one of them will be bombs.

Boomerang
Found in the forest, needed to get into the temple.

Pressing the button throws the boomerang, which goes in a straight line in the direction you're facing for a bit less than half the screen, then comes back toward you, to wherever you may have moved since throwing it.
When enemies are hit by the boomerang, they're stunned, some weak enemies may take damage. Impact switches (activated by striking) can be activated with the boomerang, and perhaps some specific things hanging from ropes or vines can be cut down.


Hookshot
Found in the forest temple, used first to traverse the forest canopy, going from tree to tree and branch to branch.

When you press the button, the shooting end extends on a chain from the grip. When the hook end hits your target, it stuns enemies and removes whatever power ups they might have, destroys some things like pots, latches and pulls in light objects, and drags link toward larger anchored objects it can attach to. The hookshot can drag you across gaps, activate switches if they're close enough and the right type, as well as be useful in combat.
A hookshot is used by one man in a port town as a tool to pull ships in to the docks, but was discontinued because it just kept pulling him into the sides of boats (not really relevant... Haha)


Flippers
Given to you by a member of the Zora Royal family after you rescue him from the cave where they were stored. Used to rescue the remaining Zora royalty and enter the water dungeon.

Once you have the flippers, you can swim and dive. Swimming is standard Zelda, you blub blub along, press the action button to dash, b button to dive. Diving in shallow water lets you dodge enemies. But diving in certain deep waters lets you enter another under water map, like OOX and pokemon's HM dive.

The under water parts could be either side scrolling or like other maps, or perhaps some of both. Personally, I'm all for being able to use your sword while diving, but not swimming, both on side scrolling maps as well as top down under water maps. Most other items wouldn't work; however, some would.



Magnetic Gloves
Found in the water dungeon

Pressing the button activates the magnetic gloves, one polarity at a time. Pressing the equivalent of the R trigger switches polarity instantly. The magnetic charge is active for as long as you hold down the button.
When the magnetic gloves are activated, a strong magnetic pulse is sent out. Items of opposite polarity are attracted to it, and if they're mobile, they'll head toward Link. If they're stationary, Link will be dragged toward them. Items of opposite polarity will be repulsed away from Link, or push him away, depending on whether or not they're stationary.
When the magnetic gloves are equipped, Link can use them to climb metal walls and attach himself to magnetic platforms and cranes, such as in TP. Certain switches can also be toggled with the magnetic gloves, but only when they're in range.


Bow and Arrow
Found in the Goron mountains, needed to access the Goron mines.

Pressing the button fires an arrow in the direction Link is facing. It does not go the entire length of the screen, but the majority of it. If an arrow hits an object, it will stop, but they can fly over certain low fences and barriers.
The bow and arrow can be used to hit enemies from afar. It does minor damage to enemies. The projectiles can also be used to hit basic impact switches that are out of reach, eyeball switches, and when necessary, knock some hanging items down.
Obviously, you need arrows to shoot.



Power Bracelet
Found in the Goron mountains, needed to access the Goron mines.

Possessing the power bracelet allows you to lift heavier and bigger things, stones you couldn't lift before, large crates perhaps, etc. the power bracelet doesn't need to be equipped to a button, but passively allows you to lift these things.
EDIT: changed order to add in boomerang, because the power bracelet wasn't very exciting, and I had been feeling iffy about putting the arrow as the very first item. No other 2D Zelda put projectile weapons as the first item (by which I mean bow/slingshot). We can still give the player the power bracelet to pick up bigger rocks, either here, before the mines, elsewhere, or as an optional item.



Goron Drill
Found in the Goron Mines

Pressing the button will whip out the drill and drill the tile in front of you. If there is an enemy there, it will do a good amount of damage, more than the sword. If there is a drill-able wall/rock in front of you, you will reduce it to rubble. After drilling, you pause for a second while the spinning of the drill slows down. If you want to drill through a lot, like if you're going through a mole mitt style area, you can hold the button and the drill will spin in place for a second, and then you will drill in a straight line until you stop holding down the button or run into something you can't drill. This function works the same way Pegasus boots do, but instead of running fast, you're drilling through specific type of rock, or enemies. And probably not going fast.
Certain walls and areas can only been traversed by drilling through them with the Goron Drill, and certain enemies can only be defeated with it as well.




Fire and Ice Arrows
Found in Gerudo Fortress before entering the Valley of Death.

When aiming the bow, but before releasing it, you can press the equivalent of the R trigger to switch types of arrows. The selected type remains equipped to the bow until you switch again or unequip the bow from its button.
Fire arrows could burn things, to light torches and open pathways blocked with wood. Ice arrows could freeze things to use as stepping stones, or freezing some things would make them breakable, for instance freezing a certain type of plant would make it so you could shatter it and get past.
Using the fire or ice arrows requires magic which is used up based in how many arrows you shoot, not how long you aim the bow for. Ie, it takes 5 points to shoot a fire arrow, not matter how long you charge the arrow in your bow for. I hated when it used up magic to aim your arrows in OOT...



Shadow Cloak
Hotly debated
Found in sheikah dungeon.
Function to be decided



Suggestion:
Thief's Rod
Left in the celestial clock by a famous theif of days gone by.

Pressing the button will fire a charge in the direction you're facing. This charge dissipates after it travels most of the screen.
When some objects are hit with the charge, they are overloaded with energy and flip upside down. Some objects resist the charge, and some things are powered up by it. Certain switches could be powered by the charge from the rod, as well as the moving statues which you can control. Statues have different functions depending on what type of statue they are.



Also, we'll need to work out the shadow cloak, if decide against it to do something else.
I would really like to fit in the dominion rod/cane of piccai combo too, if possible. Maybe as the item of the final dungeon, it powers the celestial clock and the statues you control are clockwork? I'll add that in there as a suggestion.

SO, what do you think of those? Let's make suggestions, bring up things we don't like with these, and overall finalize them before we put the spinner discussion as the main thing. These should be priority one.

My thoughts on these as the items are this: boomerang? I like the boomerang, but should it be a main item. In a couple games, I think it was optional, we could do that. Also, we could make it in place of the bow, and move the bow to someplace later, perhaps instead of the power bracelet. Personally, I support that, finding the boomerang before the forest dungeon and then the bow before the Goron dungeon. But I already ran this order past you and it was okayed, so now's when we go over it to finalize and stuff.

Also, finally, in regards to the spinner...
You're totally right about the spinner being a fairly ineffective item. I just liked it, and in my defense, I totally did mention its main function, besides the dash, was opening doors, and initially intended it to open certain doors in tandem with the cogs- you could only use it to open certain doors with the earth cog equipped, only certain others with the sea cog equipped.

But yeah, the spinner is kinda useless otherwise.
But I am still opposed to making them status enhancing, or giving you abilities. Like, how will a gear in my pocket let me climb this cliff, or swim? So my vote now is to emulate the medallions of ALTTP, or Din's fire et al from OoT, with them doing attacks that can solve certain puzzles. My formula was each cog does 1 attack you can use sometimes, and solve one specific type of puzzle. But now, instead of with the spinner, make Link just kind of "cast" the cog, like the motion he did to use Ether Medallion or Din's fire.

So I guess we might not use the spinner. Unless we can think of some new function for it, then maybe we could fit it in. Perhaps right before the celestial clock, it's needed to gain access to the celestial clock dungeon. You have to find it and use it as a key to spin the cogs and open the door, but you can also use it to open some other doors, zoom around on rails inside the clock, maybe a couple some other place that are explained to be there because they have to do with the clock, and some other function.

[.]

.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Sorry to ignore some very large and thoughtful posts (there have been a few since I last checked in). I had to stop in the middle of reading them to offer an idea. What if it was the dominion rod, but it could be used to control enemies? The rod would use magic to do this, and the amount of magic used would be controlled by the strength of the enemy. Magic would not be drained during the monster's use. The monster would be released by the player pressing a button or by dying.

I know it's not in the right format, but It's not much to read.

[Max.]

Max.

Re: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm

Jimmy Jim Jimn! Hadn't seen you for a while, thought you got eaten by a shark or something.
You know, I'd thought about that too, when I was thinking about the shadow cloak, in a possession type idea. It definitely presents a lot of problems though, well, not problems, but questions. What can the enemies do? What good does controlling them do? Where does link go during the possession? How far can they go? A certain distance from Link, only as far as what's on the screen, can they go to other maps, roam the overworld?
Personally, I think the biggest thing is, what good would this be? Would the monsters be kinda like the statues we're theorizing about now, that certain enemies could cut down certain barriers, or defeat other enemies? Press switches you couldn't reach because they could fly? I feel like statues could do more, though, because they wouldn't regain autonomy after you were done manipulating them, and therefore you could interact more, by using them as platforms or in general just making them stay somewhere.
I also think statues might be easier to program, but that's an area I have no knowledge about.

So how exactly would the possession work? How would you control the enemy and what would they do? What could this accomplish for Link?

And also, how do you feel about the suggested items in the post above yours? And that order? Once we define the main dungeon items the dungeon group can get started, so let's get those ASAP. And then after that we could brainstorm optional items and nonessentials and stuff.