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Back to items though!
To address these in the order they were brought up, basically, Stig, what do you mean about items having additional abilities in boss rooms?
I mean like, let's say Link's Master Sword in Zelda 1 could only shoot flying swords if Link were in the boss room? (Though, there would have to be RELEVANCE to the idea... I'm not supposing we just randomly add extra abilities to the items for no real reason when you get into the boss room... i.e. Steam Cog at the Water Temple resonates with the boss activating something?) I was just suggesting this because I feel it let's us be a little more creative about our design. Like, I feel we could have the design of our dungeons go hand in hand with the bosses and items you get from the temples, if that makes sense. I feel like you could look at that two ways, like, you could mean that, say, the magnetic gloves in the boss room can repel the projectiles the boss shoots at you, because they're magnetically charged. Or you could be meaning that using the magnetic gloves in the boss room allows you to shoot fire from your sword. The difference, although the second example is a bit extreme for emphasis, is that the first way is the item doing the same thing it always does, the same way as always, but due to particular things in the boss room, it has a new effect.
Looks like you were thinking along the same lines as I was! The second way is the item doing things it's never done, or doing things in a way it's never done, which is confusing for the player. I'm all in support of the first way, but that won't be addressed until we do enemies, presuming we're doing bosses. Which I think we'll probably wait on until the levels team defines the dungeons a bit more, so we'll have a theme, sort of. Of course, the boss might define the theme, so maybe we won't work entirely independently.
Yeah, I think just randomly throwing the extra abilities in there is unnecessary and will do more harm than good. BUT, what item would this be tied to, the shadow cog? If so, that would have to replace the statues application, and honestly, if we've got mirror images an involved as moving and potentially attacking, that's more of a whole item unto itself. It seems a bit much to assign to one cog. Perhaps this mirror thing could be involved with the shadow cloak? This could reconcile a lot of ideas about these items:
This would create INSANE puzzles, actually. Imagine having the elegy of emptiness allow you to assign an item to a dummy. Ah, well, I'm getting ahead of myself here... Putting on the shadow cloak makes you invisible to some enemies, and makes illusions' truth more apparent (ie, fake doors will take on a slightly different color, there will be a haze where an invisible object is like a platform or chest, etc), but attracts sheikah wraiths, as you're in their realm.
I was just gonna say, this is similar to the wolf senses in Twilight Princess. When you hold down the button, you create an illusory, mirrored copy of yourself to sort of replace you. The mirror moves as an inverse to your movements, and when you attack, it does to. It probably won't be able to use any of your other items , though. The mirror copy can be used to solve puzzles like holding down switches and hitting multiple things at once.
Well, this shoots down my initial idea or unless there would be a way to somehow have the copy have an item assigned to it. This seems to reconcile a few different ideas, but would probably need to be tested. If this doesn't seem to work out, I'm also quite down with the idea of using the cane of brynna/samaria/whatever. I just re-bought LTTP (my sisters apparently sold my old copy), but I'm not that far yet, just beat the eastern palace and the armos knights. By the way, studying dungeons from different games is a must when you're making your own. Just studying one game isn't NEARLY as helpful.
I recommend you check out http://bszelda.zeldalegends.net/sekibanfiles.shtml and run it in bsnes or snes9x, if you can (alternatively, you could scroll down to the youtube videos and watch how the games were originally played as there's missing data still that's being recovered... tl;dr on the reason why just ask in a PM if you want to know details). This is an extension of ALTTP, but with a different story + different dungeon styles somewhat. I totally agree with this, though. It's best just to study the different approaches Nintendo had than to focus in on one thing. For the water cog, YES, NYRU'S LOVE type item! Haha, defense never occurred to me, but that's actually a great idea. When you use the water or steam cog, you surround yourself with a spinning veil of water or steam that deflects attacks while your magic holds out, using it in water creates a whirlpool which can defend you from enemies and negate other whirlpools.
Do whirlpools only spin a particularly way in life, like Clockwise in the southern hemisphere or something? The water cog would spin the other way, and negate them.
+1 here, too... This reminds me of Katara's abilities from Avatar: The Last Airbender. That being said, I also think the water cog should be able to manipulate the temperature of water. i.e. cold(freezing water)/hot(forming steam or melting water). But how to decide which happens when? I think the state of the water should decide that. If it's not frozen, freeze it. If it's frozen, melt it. To form steam, perhaps make it an action command? Also, I said water/steam, because steam could still work. You surround yourself with a spinning cloud of steam, and it protects you. You could, in water, perhaps evaporate the whirlpools? Or perhaps cause a ranged thing, where you sort of boiled the water in front of you, and it was a ranged attack you could use in water? You'd shoot a wave of boiling water, which could hit enemies, and start waterwheels. And then when you used the defensive veil on land in the proper places, the steam could be directed into some kind of pipe or something and operate a steam-powered machine.
Of course, what I'm mostly in favor of is the Nyru's Love type item. The defensive aspect. The other ideas are just ideas.
Maybe this approach would be better than taking my approach. I was thinking broad on the idea(perhaps too broad). I'm in favor of the defensive approach and actually... come to think of it, going the steam approach would definitely fit the steampunk theme of the project better. (It comes off as steampunk to me, at least) Also, an idea I have for the last few items is this, after a little more discussion of the steam/water cog, we should have two basic options, one of either steam or water offensively, the other defensively with perhaps some other applications. We'll pick the better option, do a writeup, and then ratify it. How does a ratification system for the rest of the items sound? Now that we've got four of us on the team, it'll be a bit harder to come to conclusions. Not too much harder, though, because it's still pretty small.
I have no objections for a ratifying system. Just as long as we can continue processing input and worrying less about political squabbles, I'm all for it! Alright guys, you heard the man, let's keep it up. I'm just gonna put this up now, so if anybody looks in over thanksgiving weekend. Any more comments on the listed items will be taken into account for the next few days, but after next week gets into full swing, they're gonna be finalised. Dark-Hylian, the bow. Yes. 8 Ways. That is definitely the way to go. I'll get back to the bow later in this post, I want to get these last two down, so we're gonna vote yea and nea on the different aspects of the steam cog and shadow cloak. Also, let me know if I've forgotten any aspects that seemed reasonable.
8 directional arrows +1. Make this apply to any other long-ranged object as well. Hookshot, boomerang, etc. in my opinion. Otherwise you're going to have inconsistencies with the overall item design. Steam Cog
-Defensive Steam Veil
-Powers up steam technology
-Boosts you in water
-Damages enemies you hit in water
Or
-Water based, surf like attack
-Hits enemies on land with wave, Pushes back
-Floods some things to solve puzzles
-Boosts you (surfin' Link) in water
OR
-creates whirlpool in water, drawing enemies in, disables other whirlpools.
I think that's all we had for this cog that didn't step on the toes of the fire and ice arrows.
I'll fetch my ideas here for you, too: - Temperature Manipulation; effect on water varies depending on the state of the water. (i.e. if water unfrozen, freeze. if water frozen, unfreeze. steam effect is an action command on unfrozen water?) Shadow Cloak
-Turns You Invisible to enemies
This follows the same design as how Nintendo had it in ALTTP. And/or
-Makes Enemies hard to see, but reveals the nature of illusions &invisible objects
Now this goes into the Lens of Truth-esque functionality. Don't really know about this one... And Or
-Creates a mirror Link that can attack and solve puzzles.
Now, I have a suggestion. How about having a way to give the shadow cloak idea #1 and this idea? Certain conditions can allow you to position a dummy Link. i.e. elegy of emptiness is played with ocarina while wearing shadow cloak? Again, of I've forgotten any reasonable aspects, let me know. I think we've discussed these things long enough that now we've all got opinions, so let's once and for all get em down.
Now, about the bow, yeah, eight ways is perfect. How are we going to do the in between directions, though? Link kinda needs to be able to hold the bow ready and still move to make use of the fire/ice arrows, if we switch WW style with the R button. Or does he? Perhaps Link can't move while holding the bow ready, but can spin and charge arrows with fire and ice. There would also be a cancel button.
Let's do both. If the key is only pressed, just have Link fire the bow in the direction he was facing. If the key is held down, keep Link in position but make the directional buttons change which direction he's facing rather than moving him. Once the key is released, fire arrows. Writeup:
Pressing the button puts you in aiming mode. You can spin eight directions, and switch between fire, ice, and regular. There is a cancel button to return to normal mode, and pressing the button again fires the arrow.
How does that sound? I don't mind if we debate some specifics of how the controls relate to items for a while, because we've definitely decided on what the item does, at least.
Read my idea above, I think switching modes like that would be too tedious in the heat of battle. Though we can test this theory by developing a quick prototyping solution to be certain ^^. I think this aspect should just be noted down until we can get a prototype up and running. But the main thing is the shadow cloak and steam cog!
The secondary thing is the bow!
The Shadow Cog is especially interesting given its "weird" nature. It's weird to me at least. The tertiary thing is Dark Hylian's name, it's so long! Can I just call you Dark, or is that somebody else? Do you have another name I could call you? [/quote] You can call me "Jon", if you wish.  Or "The" because it'll make your sentences sound more confusing. Haha, just kidding.. call me whatever! Since we're on this matter. Max, I apologize for failing to live up to my word in responding to this topic one time per day. To make up for that, next time you reply, I'll be keeping a close watch on this thread.
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Topic: ATTN: Items Group: Items Brainstorm (Read 32751 times)