Hello Guest, please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Login with username, password and session length.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: [Rejected] Sykes  (Read 6728 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
[Rejected] Sykes
« on: June 04, 2012, 08:55:21 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Figured I'd throw my idea of Sykes as an actual submission instead of just in my head :p

Name: Sykes
Age: 12 years old (assuming Link is 11 or so)
Race: Human/Hylian/Regular, whatever, the same as Link :p
Home: Hyrule Slums, although when Link sets out on his travels, he does too.

Bio:
You would find out a lot about Syke's past and personality from talking to other NPCs. Sykes, like Link, was orphaned at a young age. At the game's opening, he lives in Hyrule Slums with a number of other poor youth under the guidance of Faron. He lived on his own for a couple years before he found this surrogate family, which caused him to develop both excellent thievery skills and an insecure personality. Sykes trusts no one and always puts himself first, as both traits were necessary to survive on his own.

As one of the oldest children in the gang at this point, as well as being skilled, he is looked up to by almost all the other kids. He enjoys getting attention he's never had before, and therefore takes on a leadership position readily. He cares for the younger children, stealing extra food and clothes for them and teaching them thieving techniques as he shows off how developed his are. However, this care doesn't extend to those his age, who he sees at a threat to his position. Sykes is quick to challenge the older children to prove that he's better, and will do anything to win. He usually acts aggressively and even arrogantly to assert his authority and remain the center attention and adoration.

When Link initially declines Ganon's offer, he returns to the hideout. Link asks where Farin is, because he wants to talk to him about Ganon's offer, but Sykes says that Farin went to the prison when Sykes told him about Link's capture. Just then, one of the gang comes into the hideout with terrible news. He was stealing some bread or something and saw guards apprehending Farin and taking him into prison.

Sykes, both because of his habit of putting older kids down and because he actually believes it's true, immediately accuses Link of being the cause of Farin's arrest. Somehow, Link traded his freedom for Farin's. The other children aren't sure, but go along with Sykes. Link feels betrayed and leaves the hideout to find Ganon and accept his offer.

When Sykes hears that Link was asked by the Gerudo King to be his apprentice, this comes as an enormous blow to his psyche. Sykes is a better thief and has done more for the gang than Link has. When Link returns to the gang's hideout after the King's proposal, Sykes is furious and hurt. He convinces himself that Link is a traitor and would give up his ties to the gang in an instant when opportunity presents itself. To "protect the younger kids from Link's traitorous influence" and protect his own position as the coolest kid there, he lies and informs Link that it's Link's fault Faron was thrown into prison. The younger kids, who look up to both Sykes and Link but aren't informed about the real situation, go along with Sykes. Link, feeling betrayed, leaves the hideout to accept the Gerudo King's offer.

When Faron returns to the hideout, he hears from Anton about what happened while he was trying to bargain for Link's release. He has a talk with Sykes, who just feels more angry. Not only did Link get chosen when Sykes should have been, not only did Link turn his back on the gang, but now Sykes is getting in trouble for it!? Sykes, furious, leaves the gang and the city, setting off on a quest to hone his thief skills and become the best thief Hyrule has ever seen, to prove his worth.

One plot twist we could include would be that actually Ganon meant to take Sykes on as his apprentice, but made a mistake and chose Link instead. Just a random, undeveloped idea.

In-Game Role
Along Link's quest, Link runs into Sykes on a couple occasions. Sykes heard of the cogs on his travels, and thought that collecting them would prove to everyone that he was the best thief Hyrule has ever seen. Sykes would challenge Link, either to a battle or some other challenge involving thief techniques when they ran into each other.

Something we'd kind of need to work out is that we've also got Maple looking for the cogs. I like the idea of them all searching, but Link kind of has an advantage because he has the thief bracers.
One idea I had was that it'd be really cool if in the third dungeon, Goron Mines, Maple helps Link out during the boss battle. Not as a playable character, but as a mechanism that could be really cool. And perhaps he even gets the cog at the end instead of Link, and runs off with it. Then later in the game, it would be stolen from her, either by Ganon or by Sykes, working for Ganon (But of course we wouldn't know it was Sykes until the end).

« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 06:16:54 pm by Donotfeedthemax »
Logged
Re: [Submission] Sykes
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 06:53:22 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
I'm sorry to say this, but it does not really speak to me yet. Okay, points of interest that either do not add up or just don't speak to me.


Home: Hyrule Slums, although when Link sets out on his travels, he does too.

...

In-Game Role
Along Link's quest, Link runs into Sykes on a couple occasions. Sykes heard of the cogs on his travels, and thought that collecting them would prove to everyone that he was the best thief Hyrule has ever seen.
Why does Sykes set out on travels when Link does to? When I read the GDD, I thought Sykes put up the gang (including Anton) against Link and assumed a leadership kinda role. To maintain a bit of animosity between the gang and Link, Sykes needs to be there. Or this act is undone, once Sykes leaves. What does he try to accomplish in the world. Link is out to gather cogs, but why is Sykes going? He heard about the cogs? Heard it from who?

He cares for the younger children, stealing extra food and clothes for them and teaching them thieving techniques as he shows off how developed his are. However, this care doesn't extend to those his age, who he sees at a threat to his position. Sykes is quick to challenge the older children to prove that he's better, and will do anything to win. He usually acts aggressively and even arrogantly to assert his authority and remain the center attention and adoration.
Why does Sykes care for the younger but has a dislike towards his own age and older? It kind of clashes. I would rather think that he would perform acts of kindness for the younger to show off and get their addoration, which he doesn't think he would get from the older children.

When Sykes hears that Link was asked by the Gerudo King to be his apprentice, this comes as an enormous blow to his psyche. Sykes is a better thief and has done more for the gang than Link has. When Link returns to the gang's hideout after the King's proposal, Sykes is furious and hurt. He convinces himself that Link is a traitor and would give up his ties to the gang in an instant when opportunity presents itself. To "protect the younger kids from Link's traitorous influence" and protect his own position as the coolest kid there, he lies and informs Link that it's Link's fault Faron was thrown into prison. The younger kids, who look up to both Sykes and Link but aren't informed about the real situation, go along with Sykes. Link, feeling betrayed, leaves the hideout to accept the Gerudo King's offer.
How can Sykes know something that is happening at the moment that he is or already has returned to the hideout. This is chronologically not possible. According to the current story in the GDD Link does not accept it at first, but accepts the apprenticeship because he was kicked out. Unless you want to change that (which I don't mind) it does not fit.

One idea I had was that it'd be really cool if in the third dungeon, Goron Mines, Maple helps Link out during the boss battle. Not as a playable character, but as a mechanism that could be really cool. And perhaps he even gets the cog at the end instead of Link, and runs off with it. Then later in the game, it would be stolen from her, either by Ganon or by Sykes, working for Ganon (But of course we wouldn't know it was Sykes until the end).
One problem is that the cogs give special powers to the Thieve Braces. On a personal note I don't really feel for those powers. They feel really forced on, but it still is there. Storywise it is an excellent idea.




Overall. I think you want to try to make Sykes act really mean and arrogant and at the same time he acts caring and empathic. I'm sorry to say this but it feels really weird and makes him come over as an mentally incapable sociopath (without the maiming of the cats). You also have Sykes trying his best to prove himself to Ganon, without confronting Ganon first.

One plot twist we could include would be that actually Ganon meant to take Sykes on as his apprentice, but made a mistake and chose Link instead. Just a random, undeveloped idea.
If I may make a suggestion. I think the better plot twist is that Sykes and Ganon worked together all along. That Sykes even may be one of the few or even the one that helped Ganon escape his prison. And Sykes was send to the gang to challenge Link and get Link to help Ganon. Because Ganon needs someone pure of heart and an heir to the triforce to defeat the guardians and collect the cogs.
Logged
Re: [Submission] Sykes
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 07:15:21 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
I agree with everything Niek said except for

Quote
If I may make a suggestion. I think the better plot twist is that Sykes and Ganon worked together all along. That Sykes even may be one of the few or even the one that helped Ganon escape his prison. And Sykes was send to the gang to challenge Link and get Link to help Ganon. Because Ganon needs someone pure of heart and an heir to the triforce to defeat the guardians and collect the cogs.

That doesn't make much sense.  A 12 year old who helped Ganon escape..he'd have to have some a priori knowledge of Ganon, which I doubt he does.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 07:34:57 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
Well, I also said "one of the few". I was thinking about a new version Twinrova. The gerudo sibling witches of Syrup, I mentioned in her description. Maybe the ritual required a young child to bind Ganon (or a piece of him) to this plane. That young child could have been Sykes.

However it was asuggestion.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 08:57:34 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Hmm, I must have failed to communicate my ideas well :/  because I feel like I answered all of your questions in my first post :p

Quote
Why does Sykes care for the younger but has a dislike towards his own age and older? It kind of clashes. I would rather think that he would perform acts of kindness for the younger to show off and get their addoration, which he doesn't think he would get from the older children.

Well, my idea of Sykes is that he's really insecure and wants constant attention. I gave a reason for this, being that he was orphaned and living on his own for a few years before finding the gang. This would result in insecurity, as he wouldn't know if he would be taken care of or if he'd eat on any given day, and he'd be completely deprived of attention while he was still young, the poor have their own problems and won't pay attention to him, and the rich won't pay attention to him because he's poor and therefore worthless.

So all of Sykes' action are motivated by a need for attention and security. When he finds a "family" willing to take him in, he finds that he can get them to pay attention to him. As he's older, and a skilled thief, little kids will look up to him and pay attention to him. To ensure that he remains the center of attention, and the attention doesn't shift to Link or somebody, he gets the little kids food and shows off, so they all adore him.

The older kids aren't in need of his help to steal food, and aren't as impressed with his skills, so they don't adore him or look up to him as readily. Therefore, to keep the littler kids from shifting their adoration to like, Link or Anton, Sykes goes out of his way to prove that he's better than them. So he belittles them to prove to himself and the little kids that he's better.


Quote
Why does Sykes set out on travels when Link does to? When I read the GDD, I thought Sykes put up the gang (including Anton) against Link and assumed a leadership kinda role. To maintain a bit of animosity between the gang and Link, Sykes needs to be there. Or this act is undone, once Sykes leaves. What does he try to accomplish in the world. Link is out to gather cogs, but why is Sykes going? He heard about the cogs? Heard it from who?

So in the story, Sykes doesn't like Link, and turns the other kids against Link, which gives Link a reason to join Ganon, despite Link's loyal personality. However, Sykes' reason for demonizing Link is that "Link caused Faron to be thrown into jail", which in the GDD we point out is not actually true, Faron just went to bargain for Link's release. So I kind of jumped to the conclusion that once Faron came back, as he wasn't actually in jail, Sykes' story would obviously fail to hold up. It's too late for Link at that time, he's already decided to join Ganon. However, I didn't think a fatherly figure like Faron would just say, oh well, that's cool Sykes, or that the other kids would continue to believe that Faron is in jail because of Link when he's NOT in jail. Therefore 1) The other kids would know Sykes lied, and 2) Faron would give Sykes some kind of talking to.

So as it's currently undefined what Sykes does after Link leaves, I figured it wouldn't make any sense for him to be able to stay with the gang, after having lied to them. With the other kids having less respect for him, Faron being disappointed in him, and Link getting more attention and adoration with his apprenticeship to Ganon, Sykes is left without anything he's been trying to get. Therefore, frusturated and having lost everything he wanted, he'll leave Hyrule Town in order to become a better thief, and "show them". He'll be such a good thief that they'll HAVE to pay attention to him.
As we have it, the dungeons are considered proving grounds for thieves, and we've even got maple collecting them to prove herself. So Sykes trying to prove himself that way makes sense to me.

Quote
How can Sykes know something that is happening at the moment that he is or already has returned to the hideout. This is chronologically not possible. According to the current story in the GDD Link does not accept it at first, but accepts the apprenticeship because he was kicked out. Unless you want to change that (which I don't mind) it does not fit.

You're right here, he would have to find out somehow that we haven't mentioned. Perhaps he's spying on Link when Ganon releases him, or Link tells him when he gets back to the hideout. Something like that.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 09:36:59 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
Quote
The younger kids, who look up to both Sykes and Link but aren't informed about the real situation, go along with Sykes.

Also this, they are VERY much aware of the situation.  From the doc:

Quote
He arrives at the hideout to find Farin is out. Link's rival tells him that their leader has been arrested, and that Link must have squealed on him (he has in fact simply gone to the castle to plead for Link's release, but Link will not find this out for some time yet.) The rest of the children are intimidated into playing along with the older kid's story and they decide to kick Link out of the gang.

Remember this all happens before Link actually accepts Ganondorf's offer, and is the reason he accepts it after a second time.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 04:15:50 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
Well, I am still not convinced. The two biggest flaws are:

1) Link is kicked out by the gang before he even knows that he joins up with Ganon. If Link tells Sykes about the offer, he would also mention that he rejected the offer at first. And this would create an opening for Sykes to prove himself and no reason to try and kick Link out so he would go to join up with Ganon.

2) For Link to stay with Ganon, Farin has to stay away. In your idea once Link collects a cog or maybe two cogs the story is over. Because when Link sets foot in Castle Town again either Farin or another gangmember turns up and says Farin wants a word with Link. Link is still loyal to Farin and to see if Farin is alright, he would go to Farin. Farin would explain that the Gerudo King is really Ganon and he was deposed by Ganon. Link would then just go back to the dungeons, return the cogs and is a witness to Ganon's betrayal. And the game would become The Legend of Zelda: King of Thieves starring Sykes.

For Link to collect all the cogs, Farin needs to be missing until then. And I think that Farin being in jail (and later released) would be good for the story, as another gangmember can overhear a guard bragging on the road to the pub from the castle. Which would strengthen Sykes' lie with the older children such as Anton.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 04:22:53 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
Regarding Farin, jailing him doesn't fit with the doc.  Instead we could have him out looking for Link.  We never have to state where he is, nor do we have to ever have him encounter Link until needed.  Further, the gang can continue to play on Syke's game of keeping Link kicked out.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 06:15:43 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Ya know, I hadn't remembered that of course Farin would tell Link Ganon was a fake! Oops! I figured that when Link returned to Hyrule Town during the course of the game, he'd run into Farin but Link would feel that he's helping reunite Hyrule with the triforce, so he'd definitely at least finish his quest for the cogs before maybe rejoining the gang. But yeah, Farin would know... There would have to be some reason Farin didn't realize Link was working for Ganon, which would be difficult :p

Well, I think we've kind of got a conflict of logic within the doc, in the case that Farin isn't in jail, but doesn't encounter Link.

1) Farin cannot meet Link again until Link has completed all the dungeons.

2) Farin is obviously a caring guy, who I doubt would just neglect everyone else in the gang to look for Link.


So Niek, I agree, I think Farin should actually be thrown in jail. Probably facilitated by Ganon, Farin goes to release Link, Ganon sees Farin and has him thrown in jail too. Then at the end of the game when he turns up and reveals Ganon, he's been released by Zelda, or broken out by Anton or even Maple maybe.
The GDD isn't immune to slight alterations, maybe this would make more sense?

In which case, if we assume Farin is thrown in jail, I'd make these changes to Sykes:

When Link initially declines Ganon's offer, he returns to the hideout. Link asks where Farin is, because he wants to talk to him about Ganon's offer, but Sykes says that Farin went to the prison when Sykes told him about Link's capture. Just then, one of the gang comes into the hideout with terrible news. He was stealing some bread or something and saw guards apprehending Farin and taking him into prison.

Sykes, both because of his habit of putting older kids down and because he actually believes it's true, immediately accuses Link of being the cause of Farin's arrest. Somehow, Link traded his freedom for Farin's. The other children aren't sure, but go along with Sykes. Link feels betrayed and leaves the hideout to find Ganon and accept his offer.

Maybe Sykes continues to stay at the hideout and take on some of Farin's responsibilities. Although the extra work of taking care of the younger kids begins to stress him out gradually...


Can we decide as a group what leads Sykes to abandon the gang and join Ganon, then? I've been kinda thinking that between each dungeon, Link will meet one or maybe two of the gang, and they'll help each other out. Link will help them somehow, and they'll believe him individually that he didn't cause Farin to be thrown in jail, then they'll somehow help him get into the next dungeon.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 06:56:23 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
Personally, I think that Sykes should have joined Ganon before the game starts.  But that is just me.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 07:30:09 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Well, if the story could flow better and the characters could still be strong, I'm interested in how it could work, but the main question then is why Ganon would bother enlisting Link's help.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 07:58:57 pm »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
Well, Ganon could have promissed him riches, wealth, power and adoration. Or it could have been that Ganon found him as an orphan a little time before Sykes joined the gang. And Ganon was the first person to show interest in Sykes.


Why Link? Why can Link push a rock in OOA, while a Veran posesed Impa can not. He is linked to the Triforce and that magical connection allows him to open the chambers with the cogs guarded by the Temple bosses.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 08:31:55 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Eh, yeah, I guess we could throw that in there and nobody would question it. But the logic of this is really based on just how deep into the lore you're going.

1) Ganon needs somebody to do his dirty work to keep up appearances.
2) Ganon needs LINK to do his dirty work because Link is triforce magic. He has Sykes around as a spy or something... :/

So that's like descending into the lore for reasoning. But if you went further down, you'd cancel it out:

3) The triforce isn't currently distributed to 3 chosen people. It's complete, and resting locked inside the celestial clock. Like at the end of ALTTP, OoT, or WW, the triforce isn't inside people mystically, it's a real big triangle that chills somewhere waiting for wishes, like before Ganon got his hands on it in OoT.

See, if Link has a triforce, then it must not be complete, so what exactly IS chilling' at the bottom of the celestial clock? I also feel that Ganon needing LINK much diminishes Sykes' importance at the end of the game, and just makes his role earlier a lot more confusing....

Or is this all just me :/
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 08:54:05 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
Niek, no one has the Triforce pieces in this game.  Ganon was stripped of it when he was sealed.  The rest is locked away in the clock.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 04:34:16 am »
  • *
  • Reputation: +9/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3725
You don't have to have the actual pieces to be marked as the hero of Hyrule. In LoZ, AoL, OOS, OOA and SS Link had the Trifoce mark on his hand and was the chosen hero and the Triforce pieces were somewhere else safely tucked away.

In Zelda being the chosen hero is a destiny not so much a choice.


But you could also say that Link has pureness of heart (that Sykes lacks) and the skill to get them.
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 08:53:25 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
This thread has been quite dead and this is a pretty important character.  Does anyone else have anything to say here?
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012, 09:10:37 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
It's been so long that I've basically forgotten all the things I thought about this :p

I think, honestly, it'd be best to start over with a new topic, rather than amend this one so much more, it could just get confusing. Better to start over on a clean slate. I'll write up another character draft once I find some food... once I find transportation to the grocery store... this could be a while :p

EDIT: Ohkay, I just realized why this kind of died, because there were some plot holes in the overall story, preventing us from further developing Faron and Sykes. Mainly, why doesn't Faron tell Link that Ganon is evil, and doesn't want to help Hyrule. Personally, I'm still in favor of Faron lacking solid proof enough to pin down Ganon, and therefore being unable to publicly renounce him. However, he could still tell Link. Therefore, I'd think it the best option that Ganon manipulates stuff to get Faron thrown into jail. But seeing as this isn't the proper topic for adjusting the plot, I'll PM you guys about it... Then we can get back to this Faron/Sykes mess later.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 09:14:30 pm by Donotfeedthemax »
Logged
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 07:41:44 pm »
  • Doesn't afraid of anything
  • *
  • Reputation: +42/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7002
If you want to make a new thread, that's totally fine :)  I'll get to your pm in a bit.
Logged



i love big weenies and i cannot lie
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 05:32:05 pm »
  • It's just Max.
  • *
  • Reputation: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1355
Looks like the conclusion here was to re-submit Sykes. I'll go ahead and reject this, hopefully I'll get around to resubmitting it later :p
Logged

Starforsaken101

Wake the Beast
Re: [Revise] Sykes
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 05:36:49 pm »
  • www.mouffers.com
  • *
  • Reputation: +69/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2577
I'll change the tag to Rejected since you're making a new one :)
Logged
  • Starforsaken101's DeviantART
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up

 


Contact Us | Legal | Advertise Here
2013 © ZFGC, All Rights Reserved



Page created in 0.051 seconds with 77 queries.

anything