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Author Topic: [Rejected] Vaati  (Read 6872 times)

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[Rejected] Vaati
« on: October 09, 2012, 11:35:07 pm »
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Name: Vaati
Race: Minish/Picori
Age: 10
Location: Gang Member
Description: Vaati is one of the few Minish survivors. He was taken by Farin, as he saw great potential in him, and the fact that he was different to all the other kids he has seen in his life. He was impressed by his magical abilites. However, he's not evil anymore, as he was well taught by Ezlo, until he died. Since that moment, he seeks revenge for his master. He borrowed Ezlo's magical hat, to get revenge, but he didn't find the bad guys. He then traveled everywhere to find them.
He finally arrived Hyrule, being hungry and thirsty after so much days of walking with no results. Farin found him, being weak and defeated, and gave him some food. Not much time after, Vaati fainted, and Farin decided to take him with him. Vaati found himself with the kids from the gang, and they were all looking at him, smiling and saying "my god, he's finallyawoke".
At the beginning, he refused to join the gang, and acted cold and distant with everyone, and some times, he tried to escape. However, Farin told him that if he wanted to surive, it was better for him to stay.
It passed some time before he used magic again, so he kind of forgotten about it. One day, he was sitting bored in a corner, and remembered about it. He had to start using magic from the beginning, so he spells aren't the best.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 02:36:23 pm by Donotfeedthemax »
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 09:24:17 am »
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The submission is short to the point and very simple. I like that and I hope to see more of these. A great job. But in all honesty I don't see this submission working and these are the reasons:

1) We don't have the minish/picori race in the game.
2) We don't have a mechanic that goes Minish size, thus the character would be nothing more then a pixel in size. And interaction would be difficult.
3) A major characteristic of the Minish is that they cannot be seen by adults. Only children below a certain age see them. Thus how would Farin be able to see him or even take him in.
4) Vaati is a well established character in the Zelda universe. He is a major villian in multiple Zelda games. To make him a friendly NPC goes very much against who Vaati is. It would be the same as making Ganon a meaningless pig on a ranch somewhere. It is just wrong by definition.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 12:47:12 pm »
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1. That's why he's a survivor. Picore may have existed, and he was the only one who was able to save himself
2. If you don't remember, I think that after infusing the White Sword with two elements, Vaati goes into Link's size, and traps him in a battle against moblins
3. After what I mentioned on point 3., Vaati goes into the throne chamber, and the king does see him
4. Why not twist things?
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2012, 01:50:13 pm »
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Blaze, I'm sorry, but I gotta agree with Niek that Vaati is just too established of a character to fit into this game as a completely different role.
1. It's not that the minish/picori died in this game, it's just that we're electing not to use them, as the presence of the Minish, by default, would add elements to this game that would clash and distract from our themes and pre-established mechanics.
2-3. Vaati was people sized because he was using the magic-wish-hat-thing to become a person. When he wasn't using a magic hat for evil purposes, he was minish sized and invisible to adults.
4. There is only a certain amount you can twist things before it just becomes confusing to people. You can make changes and it can be cool, but totally twisting things like this is just confusing and distracting.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2012, 03:24:05 pm »
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Well, I can totally change it. Vaati may be involved into a side-quest in which he and Ezlo appears. Just to make a cameo, though.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2012, 04:03:04 pm »
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Vaati became a sorceror though the magic hat's power. Even if he retains the ability to be a sorceror without the hat, the hat didn't make him evil. Part of your Vaati character story is that he suddenly becomes not evil, gets back with Ezlo after betraying him, after a while Ezlo gets attacked by an unknown group of assailants, and then Vaati pursues but has lost his memory. It doesn't seem like a reasonable progression.

The magical hat was destroyed after Zelda used it in the Minish Cap. Ezlo was in the Minish Realm which has its door sealed for a 100 years (and the Minish, besides Vaati after getting the hat which finally gave him the power to do anything, are peaceful - so who would have attacked him). This all kind of makes it weird for Vaati to be only 10 as well. Assuming Vaati lost his memory and could not do magic and that when he could do magic he could shapeshift, how does he then retain a human-like appearance? Even if Vaati wasn't destroyed completely and managed to be outside of the Minish Door before it closed, if he assumed a human form wouldn't the people of Hyrule know who he was - or wouldn't his appearance only be possible in a world of Hyrule that is closely aligned with the Minish Cap and not like the Hyrule in the King of Thieves story?
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2012, 04:04:46 pm »
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Is not neccesarily the same Vaati.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 02:02:48 am »
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If he's not even the same Vaati, then we shouldn't even use the same name. Kind of like how you don't meet many Aldolph Hitlers, even though you might meet people named Napoleon or Jesus.
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thestig

Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 06:25:30 am »
Allow me to add a 5th bullet point to Niek's points with this submission:

5) Although the submission format is good, the design of the Character contradicts the universe in which King of Thieves is set place in. By the time King of Thieves even happens, the whole situation with Vaati and the remaining Minish have already been wrapped up by Four Swords. And then this: "and they were all looking at him, smiling and saying "my god, he's finallyawoke". " ... simply doesn't make sense. Why are the thieves referring to Vaati as their "God"?

Then others in this thread made interesting points as well. Max, Diminish, etc all pretty much wrapped up the issues with the design.

Your intentions are right but the idea is in the wrong place. I personally think that we shouldn't have anymore members of the Gang added considering the ones we already have.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 11:58:41 am »
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I guess I didn't explain well. They were saying like "oh, at least he's awake", something like that, and not referring to Vaati as their god.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 12:51:32 pm »
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I know a lot of people already put in their opinions on this one, but I have to say I agree with most of what's being said. I don't really agree with bringing in Vaati in this universe; he kinda sticks out like a sore thumb. Also, I think it was stated at some point that bringing a super evil villain on the scale of Ganon in, even as a friendly character, would be strange due to the level of epicness the villain generally is. You just can't bring that huge a character in just to bring down his level of importance. It's just weird.

If you do however want to surprise the crowd and bring in a cameo of a villain, I would suggest it's a villain of lesser epic proportions. Even then, gm112 stated that we already have a lot of gang members as it is...
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 01:08:58 pm »
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Then, I'd prefer to bring Ezlo and Vaati as a cameo in a side-quest, instead of fully removing the submission  :D
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thestig

Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 01:22:36 pm »
I wouldn't even be for bringing this submission in as a cameo villain. We've pretty much established at this point that there's really nothing we can do with this idea without completely rewriting it. At that point, it would be a new design anyways.

That being said, I am recommending this be rejected. Niek or Max or whoever, its your call.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 01:33:38 pm »
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I wouldn't even be for bringing this submission in as a cameo villain. We've pretty much established at this point that there's really nothing we can do with this idea without completely rewriting it. At that point, it would be a new design anyways.

That being said, I am recommending this be rejected. Niek or Max or whoever, its your call.

I meant to redesign Vaati completely for the cameo.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 01:57:11 pm »
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I wouldn't even be for bringing this submission in as a cameo villain. We've pretty much established at this point that there's really nothing we can do with this idea without completely rewriting it. At that point, it would be a new design anyways.

That being said, I am recommending this be rejected. Niek or Max or whoever, its your call.

I meant to redesign Vaati completely for the cameo.

...what cameo??? When I was explaining cameos, I was talking about lesser evils. One must simply take a villain like Vaati and !@#$% him out as a small cameo.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 02:07:30 pm »
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I wouldn't even be for bringing this submission in as a cameo villain. We've pretty much established at this point that there's really nothing we can do with this idea without completely rewriting it. At that point, it would be a new design anyways.

That being said, I am recommending this be rejected. Niek or Max or whoever, its your call.

I meant to redesign Vaati completely for the cameo.

...what cameo??? When I was explaining cameos, I was talking about lesser evils. One must simply take a villain like Vaati and !@#$% him out as a small cameo.

No, I meant to add also Ezlo, change their names, and make a cameo as their show in-game. Don't know if you have played Luminous Arc, but in the second edition of the game, two characters appeared, with the same appearance, just that they had different names.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 02:35:56 pm »
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Blaze, I do want to thank you for being so active in contributions, even if we tend to disagree often :p
You're a big help to the team, keeping things rolling! You're certainly coNtributing more than I have time to.

Back to business though, what Star is saying is that the importance of Vaati makes him awkward to cameo, because it would be really confusing. The player would be like, woah! Evil villain here! Why is he going by an alias and what evil plans does he have!? Elzo is less awkward to cameo, because he wasn't as important in Zelda, and also wasn't an antagonist. His main problem is that he is a Minish and therefore like 2 cm tall.

I think if we decide to cameo characters 1) if we camo'ed these characters, the most it could be is like a reference, not the characters actually appearing, or 2) WAY easier, and mesh more, with different characters.

Therefore, I'm gonna hang a rejected tag on this submission, which is submitting Vaati as a 10 year old kid in the gang. If you really think Vaati or Ezlo needs to cameo in this game, and you can think of a good way to do it that will fit seamlessly into the KoT world, then do so in a different submission, as changing this one completely would just be confusing, it'd be better to start over.
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Re: [Submission] Vaati
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 07:25:53 pm »
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That being said, I am recommending this be rejected. Niek or Max or whoever, its your call.
I second this.

Blaze, I really appreciate you being active. You have grown a lot with your submissions. And I like the format of how you submit it. However this one just does not work even as a cameo. This kinda screams: quickly slapped together fan work. Taking a lot of great things from others games and hope that it will make a master piece. That is just never going to work.

I don't mind cameos or easter eggs, but they have to be done subtle. They are just fill for the part of the world and not an entire sidequest is involved with them. They are filler. And the bests ones can only be interpretted by those who have played the game. A good example is the Titanic easter egg in Skyward Sword. When you are just slamming it all out with name and even looks it even takes the fun away from discovering easter eggs.


If you want my advice, think about children dressing up and playing or even theater. But it is best to do that in a new submission, because this one kinda has sailed.
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Re: [Rejected] Vaati
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 09:57:56 pm »
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Thanks for the appreciation guys  :D. I'll try to be as much active as I can, and try to make better and better submissions. With that said,  I'll focus on making better my "Jack and his crew" submission, and a few others that have been kind of forgotten.
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Starforsaken101

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Re: [Rejected] Vaati
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 10:11:40 pm »
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Thanks for the appreciation guys  :D. I'll try to be as much active as I can, and try to make better and better submissions. With that said,  I'll focus on making better my "Jack and his crew" submission, and a few others that have been kind of forgotten.

You've been improving, kiddo! I love the motivation. Keep it up!
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