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Author Topic: Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time  (Read 1468 times)

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Koh

Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time
« on: May 19, 2013, 02:52:37 pm »
  • Tamer Koh
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It's time I finally put my thoughts on this game into words.

To begin with, I'll start by saying the game is by no means BAD, but it's definitely not the best, legendary game ever the fans make it out to be.  Now I'm prepared to back that statement up.

Problem #1: Hyrule Field - This is my major problem with the game.  There's absolutely NOTHING out there.  It's so barren and empty, and enemies only come out at night (save for Peahats, but even then, they're no threat).  You've got the random bombable places on the field, and the Lon Lon Ranch smack dab in the middle, but everywhere else is just a bunch of unappealing, boring walking.  This could have been their chance to make the world really stand out and add a bunch of scenery and sights to actually make exploring more worthwhile, but of course not.

Problem #2:  Menu Navigation - This mostly comes with the need to constantly switch between specific pieces of body equipment, like boots or tunics.  It happens so often, it's extremely annoying, especially in the Water Temple where you need to constantly switch your boots.  The GBC Zeldas only had two item slots, but even then you weren't doing nearly as much item switching as you were in this game.

Problem #3:  Bland Characters - The only characters really given much attention were the characters revolving around the plot (I'm tossing Malon into this group).  All the other side characters were just THERE.  Having NPCs to make places feel populated is one thing, but at least make it worthwhile to actually interact with them.  It's sort of like Castlevania 2:  Simon's Quest where the NPCs had nothing useful or interesting to say.

Problem #4:  Underused/Outclassed Items - I'm not expecting to be using all the items all the time, but some items were really only good for one specific part of the game, and either became useless or unusable later in the game.  The boomerang for example.  Adult Link can't use it, and it was really only spammed in Jabu Jabu's Belly.  So once you got to the 2nd half of the game, it became useless (and you couldn't use it anyway).  The bow was the replacement for it for Adult Link, but it didn't have the same effect.  How can you NOT use a boomerang when you're older?  It's not an age specific thing.

Problem #5:  Difficulty - Now, this game is by no means hard at all.  I don't want the game to be so hard that it makes you not want to play it, but the difficulty was always down low and easy.  I've done the usual fairy-in-a-bottle-backups, but never actually came close to even using them, even when I was just tanking my way through some areas.  The difficulty really needed ot be stepped up.  A damage increase isn't enough (Master Quest), everything needed to have buffed AIs as well, to actually make them threats.  The difficulty in a game shouldn't spike or stay low, it should be a steady increase, forcing the player to adapt to new challenges ahead.

--
I'll conclude this by saying again, these are my own personal problems with the game.  It's still a decent and enjoyable game, but I definitely don't feel it's worth the legendary pedestal people place it on. 
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Re: Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 08:25:40 pm »
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:)
You give me opportunities for fun discussion these days.

Quote

Problem #1: Hyrule Field - This is my major problem with the game.  There's absolutely NOTHING out there.  It's so barren and empty, and enemies only come out at night (save for Peahats, but even then, they're no threat).  You've got the random bombable places on the field, and the Lon Lon Ranch smack dab in the middle, but everywhere else is just a bunch of unappealing, boring walking.  This could have been their chance to make the world really stand out and add a bunch of scenery and sights to actually make exploring more worthwhile, but of course not.
Hmm...  I never was bored with Hyrule Field.  Fields are naturally empty.  How much walking are you doing in Hyrule Field?  Not much unless you get bored with the rest of the game.  Much of the game takes place in the side areas and dungeons.  If you truly broke it down, I bet you spend no more than...5% of the game time in actual Hyrule Field.

That being said, Termina was boring as well, Wind Waker's ocean was boring, and Hyrule Field in TP was boring(going by your definition of boring).  The world of Elder Scrolls are just as boring.  The real world in fields are just as boring.

Fields are open areas of nothing  but trees and hills(usually).  It was also the first 3D Zelda game.  They weren't trying to pack as much detail as possible into Hyrule Field as they did with the 2D games.  The scope and scale of realism in the 2d games is different than the 3D ones.
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Problem #2:  Menu Navigation - This mostly comes with the need to constantly switch between specific pieces of body equipment, like boots or tunics.  It happens so often, it's extremely annoying, especially in the Water Temple where you need to constantly switch your boots.  The GBC Zeldas only had two item slots, but even then you weren't doing nearly as much item switching as you were in this game.

Really? really?  Menu navigation was a problem?  You must have a severe case of ADD or ACB if you are constantly switching in and out of gear in OoT.  From recent playthrough experience and from watching Justin(metallica) play through Master Quest, you don't need to switch equipment as much as you exaggerate.

You can typically keep the same 3 items on your C-Buttons most of the time.  A puzzle here or there may require you to change you set up.  I usually roll with the Bow, the Hook/Longshot, then whatever-maybe bombs/bombchus or the Hammer.

Tunics?  Why are you switching them?  Other than a change of scenery on Link, you don't need to switch but maybe 3 times total in the entire game.  As soon as you get the Red Tunic, you can keep it on until the water dungeon or even leave it on permanently depending on how good you are in the water temple.  If you like the Blue Tunic, you can leave it on permanently once you acquire it, assuming you are following the dungeon sequence.

Iron/Hover boots - it happens for 2 maybe 3 dungeons out of 9 dungeons where you are constantly swapping out.  When you pause it is quick and painless to move over.  I could also have sworn the menu is a memory one where it stays on the subscreen that you left on.  If you leave on the Equip screen, it should come up on the Equip screen.  Other than Equip and Inventory, the other screens are useless(assuming you are not on first playthrough).

I really think you exaggerated this problem.  :)

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Problem #3:  Bland Characters - The only characters really given much attention were the characters revolving around the plot (I'm tossing Malon into this group).  All the other side characters were just THERE.  Having NPCs to make places feel populated is one thing, but at least make it worthwhile to actually interact with them.  It's sort of like Castlevania 2:  Simon's Quest where the NPCs had nothing useful or interesting to say.

Fisherman had character.  The dog lady had character.  The peddler had character.  Cuckoo lady, each Kokori, most Gorons and Gerudos...  You want them to say more then 2 or 3 distinct phrases or something?  Lttp and LA only had 2 different phrases for each character at best(other than plot specific characters).

Every character I interact with feels original to that instance of Hyrule.  You had a peeping Tom guy up in a tree in Hyrule Town...that's awesome.  A young couple was over infatuated with each other(much like high school aged young people) were there.  Granted, i can only recall those two examples exactly at the moment.  If I sat down and played OoT , I could point out the originality and purpose behind each character.

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Problem #4:  Underused/Outclassed Items - I'm not expecting to be using all the items all the time, but some items were really only good for one specific part of the game, and either became useless or unusable later in the game.  The boomerang for example.  Adult Link can't use it, and it was really only spammed in Jabu Jabu's Belly.  So once you got to the 2nd half of the game, it became useless (and you couldn't use it anyway).  The bow was the replacement for it for Adult Link, but it didn't have the same effect.  How can you NOT use a boomerang when you're older?  It's not an age specific thing.

Well, I already told you my list of items I usually use, so I won't exactly argue this point.  However, I will somewhat correct you :).  The Bow was not the replacement for the Boomerang...the Hook/Longshot was.  The Bow replaced the Slingshot.  Only makes sense to use more refined adult items as an adult than childish items.

It is a symbolic showing of Link being an adult.  As a fellow Zelda fan, I hope you should be able to see the symbolism :).  Are they fluffy? Sure, but they did serve a purpose other than gameplay.

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Problem #5:  Difficulty - Now, this game is by no means hard at all.  I don't want the game to be so hard that it makes you not want to play it, but the difficulty was always down low and easy.  I've done the usual fairy-in-a-bottle-backups, but never actually came close to even using them, even when I was just tanking my way through some areas.  The difficulty really needed ot be stepped up.  A damage increase isn't enough (Master Quest), everything needed to have buffed AIs as well, to actually make them threats.  The difficulty in a game shouldn't spike or stay low, it should be a steady increase, forcing the player to adapt to new challenges ahead.

Hmm, when I was 10 at release, the game seemed pretty difficult at the time without a guide or my current adult level of problem solving.  I spent most of my time just exploring the game and it's sheer magnitude compared to LttP.

However, general difficulty is different from player to player.  I thought Wind Waker was a snooze fest.  I enjoyed the Ice Temple from LttP and breezed through the Water Temple in OoT back in the 90s.  I however had trouble with the Fire Temple xD.  I also had trouble with LoZ first playthrough as a very young child and had no trouble except in a few skill parts in AoL.

Difficulties are person to person.  OoT gave most players are good challenege without being overbearing.  I never took OoT as a puzzle solving heavy Zelda game like LttP but a turn in Zelda games where story telling was a bigger focus.

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I'll conclude this by saying again, these are my own personal problems with the game.  It's still a decent and enjoyable game, but I definitely don't feel it's worth the legendary pedestal people place it on. 

And I'll conclude by saying I think it is worthy of the pedestal as it was the first 3d Zelda attempt and broke so many barriers and reached a new level of quality that many games today don't reach.

Seems to me you were trying to find tiny reasons to hate on OoT. xD

I could say Majora's Mask is just as bad for 1 problem: forced reset at least every 60 minutes.  It may be nothing to those who think Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game(which everyone has their own favorites) but for me, I made me always feel rushed so i didn't enjoy my playthrough of MM as I enjoyed my playthrough of OoT.

Anyway, discussion is always fun. :)
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Koh

Re: Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 08:32:22 pm »
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It is fun, hence why I like to do it~  Now I found it extremely easy...as I was emulating it with my KEYBOARD.  Handicapped, and still came no where close to even using one of my fairies in bottles.  If a game is easy, it's easy o.o.  Difficulty is still a subjective thing, which is why I feel there should always be a difficulty setting present.  The people who find normal too easy will go to hard, and etc. 
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Re: Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 08:42:05 pm »
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You already know how to play, hence why it isn't difficult.  You know where every major items is and what enemies to expect, etc.

I found LA a little difficult when i streamed it a few weeks ago as I hadn't beaten in for so many years, I forgot how to navigate the dungeons. 

It's not that OoT is easy, it's that you already know it.  Think about the hardest things about your first job when you were a teenager.  I bet most people would say it is pretty easy compared to whatever you do today(most of the time xD).  You grew up and your experience has taught you better problem solving and hand-eye coordination.
Add that to your previous playthrough knowledge and OoT should be easy now :)
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Koh

Re: Koh -Vs- Ocarina of Time
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 09:55:30 pm »
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Actually, it was my first time playing OOT.  I didn't own any of the major Nintendo home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube), so when I found out I could emulate OoT with Project64 and my keyboard, I did.  It's extremely awkward, but still doable.  But just the fact that I can play through the game without having difficulty on a keyboard, for which the game was not optimized for, is pretty insane.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 09:58:24 pm by dlbrooks33 »
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