ZFGC
Projects => Discussion => Topic started by: MG-Zero on April 02, 2006, 01:00:36 am
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First off, i'd like to say woo first post ;D
now, what programming language/s or program/s do you prefer to make your games? I'm starting with C++. I've also used TGF, GML, RPG Maker, RPG Maker 2, and RPG Maker 2003.
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I know GML, havea basic understanding of C++, and I clicked "other" because I know the TI-83+ BASIC progamming language. Not that there's much in it to really "know".
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i choose other... i use blitzmax
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GML, because my first game making prog was Game Maker.
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C++, GML, VB, and for Other, I know some Blitz's, C#, and others that pretty much everybody knows.
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I also am in the difficult process of learning C++, I am just about to start object oriented programming.
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I use MMF, and have learned some shity languages in the past (at summer camps), like 'logo', possibly the SIMPLEST language EVER! Also learning some basic, and some C++.
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I am in the very early stages(in "Beginning" Books) of learning C++. All that I have used before to make games was simple MMF.
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GML and c++.
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Wow, those results are not what I anticipated when I saw the poll. I always just assumed that most users here used Game Maker. Go C++!
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I am using C++ primarily now. I also know GML, and I have spent a lot of time in Java, and way too much (five months :P) in Visual Basic. I've also had experience in Hypertalk, Javascript, Turbo Pascal, Scheme, and Dephi, although don't ask me to use most of these languages now, as I haven't used most of htem in a long time, and don't have much practical use in most. I mostly just know C++, GML,and Java, in that order.
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I should study into Java more, apparently it's a great language.
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I work(ed) a lot with GML. I'm advancing in C++ and OpenGL, and I used to use some Java.
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C++ baby. :-p
Amazing how this place has developed up from GML to C++, I'd have figured that quite a few people would have just stuck with GML, and then just left programming forever.
Gotta love C++ though.
Anyway I did use GM, and then I decided that I wanted to move onto allegro, and now I'm using wxWidgets. (Both C++).
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C++ gots its benifits for alot of things..except its only for windows ;_;. I use blitzmax cuz its awesome
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C++ gots its benifits for alot of things..except its only for windows ;_;. I use blitzmax cuz its awesome
C++ only for Windows? Where did you read that? It's a cross-platform language, you can compile it in Linux, Mac, or Windows.
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C++ is only for windows?
Are you crazy?
Of course it is if you use windows libs, but allegro and wxwidgets can be compiled anywhere as long as you don't use platform specific stuff.
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Exactly! Maybe he meant C# or C++.net.
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I used to use GML, mostly Purebasic i use nowdays, but im slowly trying to learn Assembly, so im almost there :D.
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yeah im thinking of C++.net lol
my mistake
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I know GML, Java and Vb. java I havn't used for SO long. In the end I'll stick with GML just because it can do everything I want it to do.
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I use Game Maker primarily (and I am a mad hatter with that program), and C++ for things like text adventures since I still can't do graphical stuff (I once made a text pokemon game...)
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I only use Game Maker and C++. Normally I use Game Maker to "map out" what I am going to do in a game, and then I remake that in C++.
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I'm learning C++ from a book (I don't think it covers graphics, though). I've mostly used Gamemaker, but I probably will prefer C++ once i use it. I've also used RPGMaker 2000, 3000, and the demo of XP.
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yeah im thinking of C++.net lol
my mistake
I hate C++.net. I prefer regular C++.
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I'm learning C++ from a book (I don't think it covers graphics, though). I've mostly used Gamemaker, but I probably will prefer C++ once i use it. I've also used RPGMaker 2000, 3000, and the demo of XP.
Most C++ books just deal with the main syntax. You'll have to find another source to deal with graphic libraries like SDL, Allegro or OpenGL.
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I'm learning C++ from a book (I don't think it covers graphics, though). I've mostly used Gamemaker, but I probably will prefer C++ once i use it. I've also used RPGMaker 2000, 3000, and the demo of XP.
Most C++ books just deal with the main syntax. You'll have to find another source to deal with graphic libraries like SDL, Allegro or OpenGL.
Oh, that explains it. Thanks! :)
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Other. Actionscript all the way! ;)
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I'm learning C++ from a book (I don't think it covers graphics, though). I've mostly used Gamemaker, but I probably will prefer C++ once i use it. I've also used RPGMaker 2000, 3000, and the demo of XP.
Most C++ books just deal with the main syntax. You'll have to find another source to deal with graphic libraries like SDL, Allegro or OpenGL.
Oh, that explains it. Thanks! :)
DirectX my friend. Takes care of graphics, sound, and input where openGL only handles graphics.
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Other. Actionscript all the way! ;)
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that I've used Flash too in my list...geez...I hadn't realised I used so many...o.o''
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I use GML, It's the easiest I know of, and it gives good results ;p.
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I use TGF...I could work in MMF but I just dont like the interface and the look of it. Plus...I cant get the program to test or export any games.
I just wanna show that will an old program one can still make crappycool games ;)
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I'm learning C++ from a book (I don't think it covers graphics, though). I've mostly used Gamemaker, but I probably will prefer C++ once i use it. I've also used RPGMaker 2000, 3000, and the demo of XP.
Most C++ books just deal with the main syntax. You'll have to find another source to deal with graphic libraries like SDL, Allegro or OpenGL.
Oh, that explains it. Thanks! :)
DirectX my friend. Takes care of graphics, sound, and input where openGL only handles graphics.
But isn't that windows specific?
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You can use DirectX to make video games? I never knew that... ::)
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Many pc games do nowadays...Its a growing and sad trend...opengls not being updated as ideally as it should. It still has various unique properties but microsoft cunningly put 'x' in the title so theres always going to be a directx fan. And with opengl being hampered on vista....oh noes...
hmm..SDL handles input, sound, graphics, threading, timing etc, and then you can combine it with opengl to do whatever you want (and the way you want to).
Me...Im Blitz and C++..Ada too i suppose.
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yah, I keep opening programs that need "ActiveX" and "DirectX" or something.
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VB! I'm also learning Java in AP Computer Science and we're making Pac-man in that, and I know a bit of c++ but don't actually program in it, didn't mean to click that one. Mainly VB because it's so much easier, but now that I've used a true OO language I see some of the deficiencies of VB6. .net scares me too much so I haven't actually tried it, so that VB Express & C++/C# are just wasting my hard drive right now.
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I know a bit of javascript... I am trying to learn C++ I hear it pays off later more than GML. Is This True?
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I know a bit of javascript... I am trying to learn C++ I hear it pays off later more than GML. Is This True?
Very much true, im learning assembler and that will pay off more than C++, thing is you can get a job with c++ and not with gml (to my knowledge) and everything you make is half the size, so yes it does by far.
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hmm... so basically its better for the record to say "I know C++" rather than saying that about GML... Ic. Thanks for the tip ;)
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hmm... so basically its better for the record to say "I know C++" rather than saying that about GML... Ic. Thanks for the tip ;)
Yea and if you can learn Assembly (what c++ is based on) your flying, its almost the lowest level of programming.
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Ok, lol. I'll try doing some. I'll get back to you once I can do some coding. Thanks ;)
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Ok, lol. I'll try doing some. I'll get back to you once I can do some coding. Thanks ;)
Assembly is very very had, i still dont get it at all, but im not going to give up, i want to be able to use it, would be usefull for potential jobs in the future to be able to say: "I can program in Assembly"
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you're right, assembly is a great language to know if you're going to do complex things (I don't know it myself either, but this is what I've heard from a guy in the game industry).
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So, once you know C++, you can start to learn assembly? Looks like I have alot of work to do... :-\
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So, once you know C++, you can start to learn assembly? Looks like I have alot of work to do... :-\
If i were you i would go straight to Assembly and skip c++ or c#, i made a similar mistake with gamemaker and purebasic, because c++ is object orientated, assembly isnt, it will take you forever to get your head around it if you dont because they two types of programmnig are so different, and assembly will help you to understand how object orientated programing works...
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Ok, are there lots of tutorials on the net? With GML I basically figured it out myself, from editables and changing variables, but I think assembly is quite different. Do you have any good tutorial sites for assembly or C++?
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Ok, are there lots of tutorials on the net? With GML I basically figured it out myself, from editables and changing variables, but I think assembly is quite different. Do you have any good tutorial sites for assembly or C++?
I only wish that i did, this is why it takes so long to learn, because most people do not know it or wish to know it, therefore there arent many tutorials. My advice is to download Flat Assembler and to googel "fasm tutorials" and see what you get, either that or to find somebody else who already knows it and to ask them, im gonig with the ask somebody, as i have an elder brother who is half way through learning it.
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Ok, that'll be really helpful. Thanks for thinking of me. ;)
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You're all talking about C++ and object oriented programming, but why don't you just learn C? It's a common programming language, a lot more powerful than anyone could think, and it's not object oriented! Seriously, I'm much much happier learning C than I would be learning ASM. (I've skimmed a tutorial for ASM, I simply don't like the syntax and how the language works...)
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You're all talking about C++ and object oriented programming, but why don't you just learn C? It's a common programming language, a lot more powerful than anyone could think, and it's not object oriented! Seriously, I'm much much happier learning C than I would be learning ASM. (I've skimmed a tutorial for ASM, I simply don't like the syntax and how the language works...)
I would have to agree, C wold be much easier to learn than ASM, but personally im not going for the ease of learning...
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It's not only the ease but the practical side of the language, heck ASM is a language used to code things fast, but if you're making a real program, you'd do it in C. Meh I guess it depends on each and everyone of us. Although if Helios or aab come across this topic, they might shade some light on the discussion.
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GML is a good way to start off, I was never meant for it, never good enough for anything in this world XD
I use it occasionally to experiment
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i didn't used any, i have seen gml but it's not my good point...
i want to learn one of these others, like C++.
i know it's difficled but do someone have a link to a site that i can learn a easy launguage?
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i didn't used any, i have seen gml but it's not my good point...
i want to learn one of these others, like C++.
i know it's difficled but do someone have a link to a site that i can learn a easy launguage?
An excellent place to start is PureBasic! Once you have the basic idea it is SOOOO easy to learn, http://www.purebasic.com/. To get more than the demo it costs, so try out the demo first, but i can guarentee you, its definately worth it!
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GML is a good way to start off, I was never meant for it, never good enough for anything in this world XD
I use it occasionally to experiment
I learned GML first, now I am trying to learn eather C, C++, Or C#
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learn c++, I know it has a lot of industry use (C is good too). I haven't heard much about when/where C# is used.
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I hear it isin't that useful and that its kind of something you should learn after you have learned something else... What I hear for Majora, about the objects... ermm... I dunno. I will probably just and learn C++.
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C++ grew from C, and changed a few things...before adding alot on.
Today C is however still used widely as a C-api is generally more compatible and esp. compiler compatible (exporting of C++ code to dynamic/shared libraries is a compiler specific thing, so eg: need a VC++ compiler if built in VC++, a MingW if built in MingW etc, wheras for C, there a standard (=> will be used everwhere) format for exporting functions).
C++'s object orientation is something you can appreciate the larger the programs you write become (though i'd encourage writing program after program, only just making the new one larger than the last). But for a while, it would mainly be C like structures youd be using, the syntax almost exact. (ie functions, eventually structs, typedefs and pointers and fucntion pointers). The main differences to be experienced are merely which libraries to use, and the operators new and delete. So for months , growing really from C into C++.
asm is a powerful language.
So is writing in machine code heh.
Its practically just a set of mnemonics for machine instructions, and was developed as the first way of abstracting the task of programming (prior to this only a mathematical genius could consider programming lol).
It is a valuable thing to learn, as it gives you certain understandings of things.
I think that to really grasp asm an understanding of the base electronics involved is needed: something which takes you just beyond high school physics anyway.
Otherwise, various things just wont make sense...Theyll seem like inappropriate thing to be done...but arent as they related directly to the hardwares required arrangement.
Asm isnt too commonly required, and even less nowadays.
Its very tedious to write portable code in asm.
Not just OS portable..processor portable...
Change from 32 bit to 64 bit processor, and you need, no not to recompile but to re-write your asm.
High level language compilers can also optimise code greatly, and even with specification to a processor (Pentium 4s especially: which introduced alot of changes in the relative execution times of various instructions to optimise their processor massively for particular tasks).
Asm's also pretty difficult to read...Takes time, and once someone writes something for a company in asm, there are so many less people for them to obtain if they later want to update it. Slow, expensive etc.
Compilers can produce optimisations that are computer mechanical, and beyond a humans observations. And with risc processors on things like consoles, theres no chance of programming asm for them (reduced instruction set is beyond humans understanding on optimal use)
Its a good thing to learn, even make some programs in.
But, not really a practical programming language for a world with....money.
Also remmember that one day you are going to die.
Would you rather have less done, with the satisfaction that it ran 2% faster? lol.
So...Learn asm....good to know.
But dont exclude higher level languages, as they are there for thier efficient reasons.
Anyway, You can learn asm step by step every once in a while, while learning something else. Alot of it is actually mechanically simple, making it hard to forget.
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Mkay, I have decided I am going to learn C++, then C and C#, after I can do those good I will learn asm, ;)
Thanks Guys.
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I used Visual Basic (but I forgot to mark it...) and Actionscript (but I am just learning that)
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I've gone through a tutorial in C++, it's pretty hard to take up, But I am starting to get the hang of it :P
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I fist learned VB, then I learned GML and then I learned C++. But I'm not very used to C++, I prefer VB.
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I program in VB6 almost exclusively. It's a wonderful language that is exceptionally easy to program in, and while I do wish VB6 had true pointers (although VarPtr is a decent substitute) and object inheritance (although you can nest objects, which is almost as good syntactically), the benefits of programming in VB more than outweigh the caveats.
One of the great strengths of VB6 which is practically unheard of in other languages is that I can execute my code in the IDE, and break the execution at any time, change code, even add variables and entire routines, and the program doesn't even need to recompile.
Mind you, the array preformance of VB is dismal - about four times slower than VC++ 6.0. Thus, when I need to do array-intensive operations like software alpha-blending, I turn to C++, compiling to DLL's that I can access through VB. However, in all other instances, the preformance of VB is comparable to VC++.
My current project, an isometric game that looks nearly identical to Diablo 2 (and can do some of the same palette-based effects in realtime), runs at 180fps in windowed 640x480x32, and 330fps in fullscreen 640x480x32. Note that my test machine is an 800mhz P4 with an X300 graphics card, so this is hardly a state-of-the-art machine. Of course, these results are due to the fact that I've been programming in VB6 for four years now, and know the language pretty much inside out.
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The thing is that most languages can be used effectively once you know them inside out. VB is a good language to those who know it well, which excludes me. So, although it's good to know many languages, it's good to be really good at one - as FarFromHome has just demonstrated.
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VB is a good language to those who know it well, which excludes me. So, although it's good to know many languages, it's good to be really good at one - as FarFromHome has just demonstrated.
VB is very good to make simple programs, but the problem is that it's a very different language.
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If you want to try a different language, try Scheme. You can't even go "a = 2 + 2" in it. Instead, it has to look like (+ 2 2). It's a very different language.
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VB is very good to make simple programs, but the problem is that it's a very different language.
I would agree that it is different compared to C++, but then again, so is Delphi. So is Pascal. So, for that matter, so is FORTRAN. Being different is par for the course when it comes to programming languages.
Your assertion that VB is good at making simple programs is absolutely true, but so is C++. The idea that VB is only good for making simple programs is a generalization which is absolutely untrue: VB has nearly all the features that C++ has (with the exception of inheritance, threading, structured exception handling, typecasting, c-style pointers, and bitshifting - note that with the exception of inheritance, all of these functions can be replicated with calls to the Windows API; inheritance can be simulated by nesting objects, which is almost as elegant). Since VB has all of these features - and indeed, makes many of them easier to use (C++ lacks the ability to redimension arrays while maintaining the array's current contents; VB's ability to 'redim preserve' is amazingly useful), there is nothing keeping you from implementing the same program in VB that you would in C++.
I'll close with a quote from Wikipedia's talk page on VB:Outside of academia and hacker code puritans, VB is not so overwhelmingly controversial. It is a language like any other, and it is just one package available. I'm not defending VB at all, just saying it does not merit a slanted POV.
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Although VB looks nice, I won't give it a try since it's not cross-platform compatible, or is it? I just like to program for everyone to enjoy, that's why I choose C (for the time being, once I'm done with it I'll go with C++).
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Ah, no, VB is not cross-platform compatible, because the runtime libraries it needs are only available on the Windows platform. Since Microsoft owns VB outright, the chance of these libraries being ported to other OS's is null. Similarly, if you want to write games that are cross-platform compatible, you'll have to write for SDL, Allegro, and OpenGL, completely eschewing DirectX, because DirectX is only on windows.
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Hmmm... the C++ is coming along good, lol.... its way harder than GML.
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Java and MMF I guess I could say I can make PHP games like some online text based MMORPGs not sure if that counts.
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i use c++ and java
c++ for the games engine and java for all the tools i need to develop for it
i'm still knowledgable in GML but i haven't used it for a while
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i use c++ and java
c++ for pc development, using directX (d3d most), and c/c++ on my psp
and java ONLY for cellphones.. if i could use c++ i would.. ;)
i do not know any GML or bilz or anything like that..
currently learning c# (for tools and slow stuff..)
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Seems this c++ stuff will pay off later, considering everyone else uses it, lol.
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Ah, no, VB is not cross-platform compatible, because the runtime libraries it needs are only available on the Windows platform. Since Microsoft owns VB outright, the chance of these libraries being ported to other OS's is null. Similarly, if you want to write games that are cross-platform compatible, you'll have to write for SDL, Allegro, and OpenGL, completely eschewing DirectX, because DirectX is only on windows.
True, but I never said I was going to learn how to use DirectX. I'm currently learning how to use the SDL library. Although I'm eagerly waiting for Rapid Game Developer (check sig) to come out, since it will produce games for all platforms!
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Ye, alex. I wanna use that, but for now c++ seems needed.
/me studies
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Since VB has all of these features - and indeed, makes many of them easier to use (C++ lacks the ability to redimension arrays while maintaining the array's current contents; VB's ability to 'redim preserve' is amazingly useful), there is nothing keeping you from implementing the same program in VB that you would in C++.
Thats an incredibly implicit feature of the language: In C++, you can do this on your own, so theres no need to integrate it, and as its a standard task, there are headers for it: Eg some STL: std::vector< int > intArray; intArray.resize(30); intArray[5] = 4;
You can make your own..Let it do whatever you want, or download someone elses alternative if you like. And being able to iterate through the array by address gives great speed advantage when reading (beyond the already existing ones). No threading? No media players, OS's, streaming game levels etc: But like you say, api calls can do all that. Only...then its doing the same if not more than C++. I find overloading virtuals through polymorphism, and template specification make programming far easier, and code neater. I dont know if theres a way to emulate them in Visual Basic (certainly not through api calls) , other than 'manually' instantiating the copies lol (which of course, would mean a different output (with great redundancy) for the Vtabling, so best to just avoid it altogether and write messier code with big switch statements everhere).
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Indeed, as I noted - doubtless you read my earlier post - VB's array preformance cannot possibly match VC++'s.
Thus, when I need to do array-intensive operations like software alpha-blending, I turn to C++, compiling to DLL's that I can access through VB.
I disagree that VB cannot be used to program a media player or preload game levels, as there is nothing stopping you from preloading data via implicit calls, rather than seperate threads. How do you think seemless overworld maps were implemented for the SNES, with its paltry VRAM? There isn't enough space to preload the entire world's graphical tiles; heck, there isn't enough space to preload the entire *mapdata*. I'm reasonably positive that threads weren't a standard feature in an SNES programmer's arsenal. Look at the GBA game Golden Sun as well: when walking around in a village, tiles are copied in and out of memory as neccesary. Once again, I'm reasonably positive that this isn't done with threads. =)
In my game, when you approach a new map, the tileengine raises a flag which tells the engine that a new tileset will soon have to be loaded. The engine then allocates a small chunk of time (never more than would slow down the framerate) to loading in the new tiles. Thus, over a period of several frames, all the tiles neccesary are preloaded.
You can do the same thing for a media player: when I programmed nAMP, a MP3 player which looked like iTunes for windows before Apple ever announced their intentions to do the same, I would start to preload the next song in the current playlist when the current song had 10 seconds left before it ended, once again loading in chunks so that the music playing was never interupted. A similar process is used to play music on the GBA: perhaps 100ms of music is synthesized at once, and then the next 100ms is synthesized 6 frames later. And, as you said, there's nothing stopping VB from using the CreateThread API from the Kernel32 library to create a new thread.
You can overload variables in VB6, but I've never had the need to (I don't quite understand why you would want the same variable to act as a floating point integer one frame and a fixed point integer the next. Couldn't this lead to nasty game-stopping errors if the variable was expected to be one type but turned out to be another?).
You cannot have object inheritance in VB. This is a limitation of the language.
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I know GML and HTML, but the second one can't be considered as a *real* language... That's what my teacher said.
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Your teacher may well be right - pure HTML does not have a looping construct and cannot store variables. With embedded PHP or Javascript, HTML becomes a true language... though one could argue that PHP and Javascript are the languages, and HTML is just the wrapper. =) See the definition of Turing Complete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_complete) for more information. =P
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Technically Fox, GML isn't a *real* language either.
Why?
Because it's interpretted, just like HTML.
I think. :-p (Though it is interpretted, duh).
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GML is a scripting language, not a programming langauge.
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I disagree that VB cannot be used to program a media player or preload game levels,
...
And, as you said, there's nothing stopping VB from using the CreateThread API from the Kernel32 library to create a new thread.
Threading isnt nessecary for those things yes. But it simplifies things (well..it does) and allows much easier handling of the programs time loop (Can rely on a more constant proportion of cpu time).
A media player wouldnt have to pre-load a whole song (or if it would it'd keep it uncompressed : lol i remmember one day i decided to try loading all of Master Of Puppets...took up 80 megs of ram somehow): Load a few chunks, and while decompressing them, play the ones already decompressed..when finished, free, by which time now-decompressed ones can be played back. Obviously nessecary when dealing with movies: Of course your right it doesnt need threading, but then the gui thread and loading thread would be combined: a gui thread, altered in its time by user actions, interrupted, and forced to set a timer so the loading of some kb's of media can be called from the windows callback proc every x millisecs. I say leave it open and free to do what it does, and let another thread handle media in the desired time chunks.
You can overload variables in VB6, but I've never had the need to (I don't quite understand why you would want the same variable to act as a floating point integer one frame and a fixed point integer the next. Couldn't this lead to nasty game-stopping errors if the variable was expected to be one type but turned out to be another?).
Yeah. Its usually for the kind of efficiency in storage (swapping from using on to the other) that the compiler would end up doing better than the programmer if he wrote normally anyway. In C/C++ a union would allow that, or referencing a cast of a *( void* ) .
Functions on the other hand can be usefull, eg make a parent object with a virtual update(), a virtual render(), and make each of the child objects implement their own update() and render(). When they do so, they can do their own specific things, then call the bases update(), or, the base can call their update eg: this->update(), will call the 'youngest' childs update. Also, with arrays of function pointers, or something similar, something like:switch(val){case a:doA(argu);break;case b:doB(argu);break;....doZ(argu); } can be far faster and easily read as ( do[val] )( argu );
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C and C++ are almost the same language, and I thought that C# and C++ were also almost the same language. But once I was told that C# is not as simmilar to C++ as C++ is simmilar to C. Does anyone knows if this is true?
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sjegtp, you are correct that C# and c++ are different. If I recall correctly, c# is windows only too...
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Technically Fox, GML isn't a *real* language either.
Why?
Because it's interpretted, just like HTML.
I think. :-p (Though it is interpretted, duh).
Lol, well then technically I don't know any real languages yet. I only know GML and HTML, lol... I guess the C++ will help out. :P