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C/C++

28 (28.6%)

GML/Game Maker

35 (35.7%)

Java

6 (6.1%)

TGF/MMf

7 (7.1%)

VB

9 (9.2%)

other (Specify)

13 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 37

[tippz]

tippz

Re: Languages?

I used Visual Basic (but  I forgot to mark it...) and Actionscript (but I am just learning that)

[Krynn]

Krynn

Re: Languages?

I've gone through a tutorial in C++, it's pretty hard to take up, But I am starting to get the hang of it

[sjegtp]

sjegtp

Re: Languages?

I fist learned VB, then I learned GML and then I learned C++. But I'm not very used to C++, I prefer VB.

[FarFromHomeFish]

FarFromHomeFish

Re: Languages?

I program in VB6 almost exclusively. It's a wonderful language that is exceptionally easy to program in, and while I do wish VB6 had true pointers (although VarPtr is a decent substitute) and object inheritance (although you can nest objects, which is almost as good syntactically), the benefits of programming in VB more than outweigh the caveats.

One of the great strengths of VB6 which is practically unheard of in other languages is that I can execute my code in the IDE, and break the execution at any time, change code, even add variables and entire routines, and the program doesn't even need to recompile.

Mind you, the array preformance of VB is dismal - about four times slower than VC++ 6.0. Thus, when I need to do array-intensive operations like software alpha-blending, I turn to C++, compiling to DLL's that I can access through VB. However, in all other instances, the preformance of VB is comparable to VC++.

My current project, an isometric game that looks nearly identical to Diablo 2 (and can do some of the same palette-based effects in realtime), runs at 180fps in windowed 640x480x32, and 330fps in fullscreen 640x480x32. Note that my test machine is an 800mhz P4 with an X300 graphics card, so this is hardly a state-of-the-art machine. Of course, these results are due to the fact that I've been programming in VB6 for four years now, and know the language pretty much inside out.

[therabidwombat]

therabidwombat

Re: Languages?

The thing is that most languages can be used effectively once you know them inside out. VB is a good language to those who know it well, which excludes me. So, although it's good to know many languages, it's good to be really good at one - as FarFromHome has just demonstrated.

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[sjegtp]

sjegtp

Re: Languages?

VB is a good language to those who know it well, which excludes me. So, although it's good to know many languages, it's good to be really good at one - as FarFromHome has just demonstrated.

VB is very good to make simple programs, but the problem is that it's a very different language.

[therabidwombat]

therabidwombat

Re: Languages?

If you want to try a different language, try Scheme. You can't even go "a = 2 + 2" in it. Instead, it has to look like (+ 2 2). It's a very different language.

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[FarFromHomeFish]

FarFromHomeFish

Re: Languages?

VB is very good to make simple programs, but the problem is that it's a very different language.

I would agree that it is different compared to C++, but then again, so is Delphi. So is Pascal. So, for that matter, so is FORTRAN. Being different is par for the course when it comes to programming languages.

Your assertion that VB is good at making simple programs is absolutely true, but so is C++. The idea that VB is only good for making simple programs is a generalization which is absolutely untrue: VB has nearly all the features that C++ has (with the exception of inheritance, threading, structured exception handling, typecasting, c-style pointers, and bitshifting - note that with the exception of inheritance, all of these functions can be replicated with calls to the Windows API; inheritance can be simulated by nesting objects, which is almost as elegant). Since VB has all of these features - and indeed, makes many of them easier to use (C++ lacks the ability to redimension arrays while maintaining the array's current contents; VB's ability to 'redim preserve' is amazingly useful), there is nothing keeping you from implementing the same program in VB that you would in C++.

I'll close with a quote from Wikipedia's talk page on VB:

Outside of academia and hacker code puritans, VB is not so overwhelmingly controversial. It is a language like any other, and it is just one package available. I'm not defending VB at all, just saying it does not merit a slanted POV.

[AleX_XelA]

AleX_XelA

Re: Languages?

Although VB looks nice, I won't give it a try since it's not cross-platform compatible, or is it? I just like to program for everyone to enjoy, that's why I choose C (for the time being, once I'm done with it I'll go with C++).

OoT2D Style Text Engine (C - SDL & FMOD)

[FarFromHomeFish]

FarFromHomeFish

Re: Languages?

Ah, no, VB is not cross-platform compatible, because the runtime libraries it needs are only available on the Windows platform. Since Microsoft owns VB outright, the chance of these libraries being ported to other OS's is null. Similarly, if you want to write games that are cross-platform compatible, you'll have to write for SDL, Allegro, and OpenGL, completely eschewing DirectX, because DirectX is only on windows.

[Krynn]

Krynn

Re: Languages?

Hmmm... the C++ is coming along good, lol.... its way harder than GML.

[Benito]

Benito

Re: Languages?

Java and MMF I guess I could say I can make PHP games like some online text based MMORPGs not sure if that counts.

I ♥ Open Girlfriend (What!? I didn't add this.. must have been Solly!)

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[Windy]

Windy

Re: Languages?

i use c++ and java
c++ for the games engine and java for all the tools i need to develop for it
i'm still knowledgable in GML but i haven't used it for a while

[Gorthwogh]

Gorthwogh

Re: Languages?

i use c++ and java

c++ for pc development, using directX (d3d most), and c/c++ on my psp
and java ONLY for cellphones.. if i could use c++ i would..
i do not know any GML or bilz or anything like that..

currently learning c# (for tools and slow stuff..)

demo 3 released.. get it here: http://zeldamobile.gorthwogh.com
Total game completion [||||||||||]  ~80%

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[Krynn]

Krynn

Re: Languages?

Seems this c++ stuff will pay off later, considering everyone else uses it, lol.

[AleX_XelA]

AleX_XelA

Re: Languages?

Ah, no, VB is not cross-platform compatible, because the runtime libraries it needs are only available on the Windows platform. Since Microsoft owns VB outright, the chance of these libraries being ported to other OS's is null. Similarly, if you want to write games that are cross-platform compatible, you'll have to write for SDL, Allegro, and OpenGL, completely eschewing DirectX, because DirectX is only on windows.

True, but I never said I was going to learn how to use DirectX. I'm currently learning how to use the SDL library. Although I'm eagerly waiting for Rapid Game Developer (check sig) to come out, since it will produce games for all platforms!

OoT2D Style Text Engine (C - SDL & FMOD)

[Krynn]

Krynn

Re: Languages?

Ye, alex. I wanna use that, but for now c++ seems needed.

* Issac_Amisov studies

[aab]

aab

Re: Languages?

Since VB has all of these features - and indeed, makes many of them easier to use (C++ lacks the ability to redimension arrays while maintaining the array's current contents; VB's ability to 'redim preserve' is amazingly useful), there is nothing keeping you from implementing the same program in VB that you would in C++.

Thats an incredibly implicit feature of the language: In C++, you can do this on your own, so theres no need to integrate it, and as its a standard task, there are headers for it: Eg some STL:  std::vector< int > intArray;   intArray.resize(30);    intArray[5] = 4;
You can make your own..Let it do whatever you want, or download someone elses alternative if you like. And being able to iterate through the array by address gives great speed advantage when reading (beyond the already existing ones). No threading? No media players, OS's, streaming game levels etc: But like you say, api calls can do all that. Only...then its doing the same if not more than C++. I find overloading virtuals through polymorphism, and template specification make programming far easier, and code neater. I dont know if theres a way to emulate them in Visual Basic (certainly not through api calls) , other than 'manually' instantiating the copies lol (which of course, would mean a different output (with great redundancy) for the Vtabling, so best to just avoid it altogether and write messier code with big switch statements everhere).

I ♥ Sol
.... I ♥ Sol ? wtf how long has that been there? >_> *rrrrrrrrar*

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[FarFromHomeFish]

FarFromHomeFish

Re: Languages?

Indeed, as I noted - doubtless you read my earlier post - VB's array preformance cannot possibly match VC++'s.

Thus, when I need to do array-intensive operations like software alpha-blending, I turn to C++, compiling to DLL's that I can access through VB.

I disagree that VB cannot be used to program a media player or preload game levels, as there is nothing stopping you from preloading data via implicit calls, rather than seperate threads. How do you think seemless overworld maps were implemented for the SNES, with its paltry VRAM? There isn't enough space to preload the entire world's graphical tiles; heck, there isn't enough space to preload the entire *mapdata*. I'm reasonably positive that threads weren't a standard feature in an SNES programmer's arsenal. Look at the GBA game Golden Sun as well: when walking around in a village, tiles are copied in and out of memory as neccesary. Once again, I'm reasonably positive that this isn't done with threads. =)

In my game, when you approach a new map, the tileengine raises a flag which tells the engine that a new tileset will soon have to be loaded. The engine then allocates a small chunk of time (never more than would slow down the framerate) to loading in the new tiles. Thus, over a period of several frames, all the tiles neccesary are preloaded.

You can do the same thing for a media player: when I programmed nAMP, a MP3 player which looked like iTunes for windows before Apple ever announced their intentions to do the same, I would start to preload the next song in the current playlist when the current song had 10 seconds left before it ended, once again loading in chunks so that the music playing was never interupted. A similar process is used to play music on the GBA: perhaps 100ms of music is synthesized at once, and then the next 100ms is synthesized 6 frames later. And, as you said, there's nothing stopping VB from using the CreateThread API from the Kernel32 library to create a new thread.

You can overload variables in VB6, but I've never had the need to (I don't quite understand why you would want the same variable to act as a floating point integer one frame and a fixed point integer the next. Couldn't this lead to nasty game-stopping errors if the variable was expected to be one type but turned out to be another?).

You cannot have object inheritance in VB. This is a limitation of the language.

[Fox]

Fox

Re: Languages?

I know GML and HTML, but the second one can't be considered as a *real* language... That's what my teacher said.

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