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Author Topic: Zelda has flat-lined.  (Read 2733 times)

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Zelda has flat-lined.
« on: September 20, 2009, 06:48:29 pm »
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For a while now, I haven't really been playing Zelda games, aside from older ones. I feel like all of the originality has been sucked out of the series and they're mainly just releasing games for money, similarly to what's happened with Mario. Along with this whole "Wii phenomenon" which is completely TRASHING the gaming community, originality has been set aside and exchanged for casualty and ease. Near everything produced by Nintendo recently that I've seen is made to cater to the casual gamer whether it's for the DS or Wii. Even art direction and creativity has been thrown out the window.

Getting back on topic, the last Zelda game I truly enjoyed was Windwaker. It was a breath of fresh air the to franchise which has since been missing. Minishcap, Four Swords, Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, Phantom Hourglass and now Spirit Tracks have stolen the style born from that game and have compensated with only decent gameplay. Since Windwaker, I haven't beaten any Zelda game. I attribute this partly to the fact that my time for game play has been increasingly limited as I get older, but mostly because I've been so disappointed with what has come out that I have no desire to play.

Twilight Princess is no exception. I understand that it was one of the premiere titles for the Wii, despite being a Gamecube exclusive title [I'm not still bitter], but just because it uses motion like the hundreds of games to follow [and before it - HELLO virtual reality in the 80's!] doesn't make it revolutionary. Twilight Princess has a nice atmosphere, yes, but it's one we've seen before. With the facelift graphics-wise, Nintendo must have thought it wise to copy everything they did with Ocarina of Time, it being their most successful game. Gameplay, battling, characters - it's all the same. I feel like I've seen pieces of Twilight's Hyrule in dozens of games.

That all being said, I'll finish by saying what I could have started and ended the topic with. Sadly, I've completely lost all faith in the Zelda franchise.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 07:00:46 pm »
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I agree on every aspect.
Ocarina of Time was the most popular because it changed A LOT of gaming, and the amount we can do. Majora's Mask that preceded it was one of the most original games I've ever seen(though, it used quite a bit from OoT). Wind Waker after that was slightly original as well, but it pretty much had the same elements as OoT.
I'm sorry to all who don't agree, but originality has been lost, and yes, it seems like Nintendo is only creating more Zelda games because of demand.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 07:45:06 pm »
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I agree somewhat. Zelda just doesn't seem that impressive any more as it used to. There are so many more 'epic' games nowadays. I still did enjoyed Twilight Princess. I never played Spirit Tracks or Phantom Hourglass. They just seemed a bit lame and simple. The Oracle games appealed more to me.

I think a lot has to do with age too. Things that seem to have changed, could also be you having changed.
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 09:05:39 pm »
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Zelda died for me the moment MM came out... The decision to emphasize strictly on character development instead of dungeon crawling took the series in a direction that was bound to be less impressive over the years.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 10:03:58 pm »
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!But Mammy, the Oracle games came after Majora's Mask!  !They were still classic LoZ/LA style games!
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 10:11:13 pm »
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They go back to their roots, which was amazing I agree :p
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 10:22:24 pm »
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i COMPLETELY agree. i was hugely disappointed with TP. apart from the graphics, i found it very bland...i dunno, it just didnt feel like a true zelda game somehow
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 02:46:30 am »
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I agree for the most part.  Wind Waker was the last Zelda game I truely enjoyed.  I played through it a few months ago after not touching it for 2 years and enjoyed it even more than the first times.  But with Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass, I tried playing both of them through a 3rd time (after two play throughs when they first came out) and just couldn't get into them.

For Twilight Princes, I'm not sure what it was.  Probably because I got EVERYTHING accomplished (except for the 60 poes, got about 40 of them) in the very first play through.  It's a great looking game and utilizes the Wii controls the way the Wii should be utilized (not all of these "real life" games that use the controller in very obvious, and boring ways).  With Phantom Hourglass, just about every aspect of the game had something "wrong" with it that kept me away from it.  The controls were just a tad tedious, going back to the same dungeon every other one and doing the same things almost every time, and the story was so-so.

I'm not sure about Spirit Tracks.  It seems the Train stuff is just too "modern" for what I think of as being in a Zelda game.  Even the boat you used to travel in in Phantom Hourglass is a bit too "modern."  It's still yet to be seen what Spirit Tracks will end up being but I just don't see it as being as great as even Twilight Princess.

I can play the Gameboy games and the older ones up to Ocarina of Time all day, but recently it has gone down hill.  Don't get me wrong, I'll still get future games as I still get enjoyment out of them, they just are losing what made the early ones great.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 03:05:40 am »
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I never even enjoyed Wind Waker. And to this day I've never yet actually beat it.
Majoras Mask was good, but OoT was considerably better. And I actually beat TP, but never felt compelled to go back and beat it again and again like I did MM and OoT.
It just didn't appeal to me as much, but because it was one of the first games I got for my Wii, I played through because everything was still new to me. I just kept telling myself it would get better, also, but it never did. haha
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Hammer Bro. Mike

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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 01:25:20 pm »
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I slightly agree. The Minish Cap was a great game so you gotta give it a chance. Nintendo can do so much with the series but they just aren't focusing on what they used to do anymore. Since the Wii, Twilight Princess was turned into crap due to the casual thing Nintendo is about now because the game was originally supposed to be harder from what I remember.

I've been replaying a bunch of Zelda games lately and they are still satisfying today. Zelda I, Majora's Mask, Oracle of Ages (playing linked game for the first time), etc. which also got me into playing the Dark Cloud games again but that's another story. I don't know if Nintendo will succeed with Spirit Tracks but if they manage to do the new Wii Zelda right, then there still could be hope. Age is a factor in this as well so don't say it's just the casual thing because it's both. Oh, some Mario games are still fun as well. Galaxy is good as well as the new Mario & Luigi game, it's hella fun playing as Bowser.

Zelda died for me the moment MM came out... The decision to emphasize strictly on character development instead of dungeon crawling took the series in a direction that was bound to be less impressive over the years.
Like we haven't heard this story a million time. XD I'm just joking around.

Character development is an interesting aspect with this game. Sure the characters aren't too colorful but it's still fun to find out what different people do in the game unlike OoT where most of the characters were generic with no genuine back-story whatsoever while a select few actually had something interesting about them. Sure there are only 4 dungeons but they have far better concepts than most OoT dungeons.

The fact that you can change the flow of a dungeon to explore new areas is great like flipping the whole Stone Tower upside down or changing the water currents in the Great Bay Temple. I still like the idea of flipping those two areas in the OoT Forest Temple still. There's also the amount of side-quests and stuff to collect which more than makes up for it. You just never gave the game much of a chance. It's probably the most original Zelda game I've seen in a while.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 02:29:53 pm »
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Zelda died for me the moment MM came out... The decision to emphasize strictly on character development instead of dungeon crawling took the series in a direction that was bound to be less impressive over the years.

I feel like it was more an approach to giving the hub world focus rather than the dungeon crawling, and as a by-product of that you have a lot better character development. Perhaps it is because Termina as a whole is the focus of the story that the design team decided to emphasize the overworld during development.

I love MM :D
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 03:57:11 pm »
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Personally, I always equate Zelda with the feeling I got from playing Link to the Past. While Zelda has always been about exploring the world from the first game and forward, Link to the Past introduced the other side of the coin: social exploring. For the first time, you get multitudinous pieces of heart, and a wider variety of caves for spelunking, but you also get subquests, and characters with social ties to one another, and a sense that Hyrule isn't just linked by a network of caves, but also by a network of people.

So with every Zelda that comes out, I judge it on two merits:
a) Will I enjoy exploring the world?
b) Will I enjoy exploring the society?

Even the most recent games give me what I want in those qualities. So I haven't been disappointed with Zelda much at all. I consistently enjoy the games and consistently look forward to the next.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 06:02:23 pm »
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Nabeshin, I agree with you on that. Additional, I try to expect as little as possible from each new Zelda. But I won't deny that Nintendo occasionally drops the bomb at some points and leave some flaws. But like Yubel said, there are some personal aspects to it.

1) You get older and you interest changes a little, what seems cool when you younger looks average now. The earlier games often also come with the nostalgia of feelings.
2) The more games you play, the more you start to notice the things that keep returning. You start to focus more on that and less on the new stuff. And psychological the bad stuff and things that make you feel bad, everything you don't like, tend to remain fresher and more vivid in you memory.
3) Because you have seen and played many Zelda games, you have gotten some perfect image of the game. Each time a new Zelda is released, you started to think about this image and if it will be the next Zelda game. But once the next Zelda was revealed it didn't look anything like it and you got disappointed.
You will probably deny the above points, but subconsciously these things happened.

For a while now, I haven't really been playing Zelda games, aside from older ones. I feel like all of the originality has been sucked out of the series and they're mainly just releasing games for money, similarly to what's happened with Mario.
Sorry that I have to say this, but: DUH!!! Nintendo is still a company and the basis of the world they exist in has always been, is still and will always be about money. They aren't a charity case. It is pretty stupid to think that they would release any game just to make people happy. No cashflow, no existence. Simple really.

Minishcap, Four Swords, Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, Phantom Hourglass and now Spirit Tracks have stolen the style born from that game and have compensated with only decent gameplay.
Not to mention that the Oracle games had the same style as Link's Awakening, which had a simplified version of ALttP style. A style which is converted to 3D in OOT. Since ALttP, Wind Waker was the only actual game that had a really refreshing style.

Twilight Princess has a nice atmosphere, yes, but it's one we've seen before. With the facelift graphics-wise, Nintendo must have thought it wise to copy everything they did with Ocarina of Time, it being their most successful game. Gameplay, battling, characters - it's all the same. I feel like I've seen pieces of Twilight's Hyrule in dozens of games.
Considering Dryland Hyrule has little changed since ALttP, and aspects were used in other lands as well; it is safe to say that you've seen it all before. And why TP looks a lot like OOT, is because millions of fans were bitching Nintendo about the Wind Waker, when it came out. Everyone was shouting "What happened to the Spaceworld 2001 demo? The part with Luigi made it to a game, why not Zelda?"; "This cartoony style is so childish, why isn't it more like OOT, that was cool!"; "We want a realistic looking Zelda!". Well, Nintendo listened to their fans and gave them a realistic looking Zelda in line with OOT. Now that Wind Waker is older and it's style of graphics has been used more it has become acceptable and even loved. But that wasn't the case when it came out. Millions screamed of how Wind Waker raped the Zelda franchise. (And it still got premier scores).

Zelda died for me the moment MM came out... The decision to emphasize strictly on character development instead of dungeon crawling took the series in a direction that was bound to be less impressive over the years.
That the games before MM where more aimed at the dungeon crawling than story development has a (techno)logical explanation.


What I am wondering about is why everyone keeps on whining. I agree that the Zelda franchise at the moment has a lot of room for improvement. But each game in the franchise has received premiere scores, that many other titles would commit murder for. There are a shitload of crappy games out there that are a whole lot worse than any Zelda title.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 06:40:04 pm »
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I hope they point Zelda in the right direction with the next wii game. An epic story, some voice acting, and less gimmicky controls would definitely improve the series.
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 06:44:07 pm »
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>the right direction
>epic story
>voice acting


WAAAT?  Get out of my house!
How about… No story?  No voice acting?  No cinematics?  Yeahr.  >:3
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 07:17:19 pm »
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I know what happened!
After Ocarina of Time, they lost two directors!
- Toru Osawa
- Yoichi Yamada

I looked up the game credits, and found that OoT had 4 directors and MM had 2 directors! Though, in MM Yoichi Yamada became and assistant director... But still, I figured it out!
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 08:31:56 pm »
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I think Nintendo may want to look into AoL.  Alot of you here say it sucked but I've met 10x as many people on the net and in real life that loved Adventure of Link.
If originality and gameplay seem rehashed, then maybe it's time to try something RPG-ish like AoL again.

/random thought
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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 09:34:19 pm »
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There's way too many RPGs in existence, no need to mess up the Zelda games by turning them into something else.  RPGs suck anyway.  If anything, they should make new games more like the older ones like A Link to the Past, not Zelda II.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 09:36:41 pm by Shefali »
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Mamoruanime

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Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 09:57:42 pm »
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While I LOVE Zelda 2, I think making another zelda game like it would be bad. I personally love the nostalgia that comes from 2, since it was one of my first zelda games from my childhood (I owned 1 and 2 for NES). While I love the game mechanics, it comes from my love for the Castlevania series also. With the amount of Castlevania games out today, there's not really a need for Zelda to make another one to compete. It wouldn't be on par with a lot of other games, and would be a lot less satisfactory.

However; I do feel if they go back to their roots- minimal social interaction, tons of caves to explore, and more than 4 dungeons it'd be perfect.

Character development isn't really needed at all since well... Link has NO development nor does he need it, and each game represents a different "Link", and a different "Hyrule" altogether. You don't need to grow to love the people since it's not about that. It's about Link bringing the Triforce together to stop Ganon. Nuff said.
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Lance9384

Re: Zelda has flat-lined.
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2009, 12:29:48 am »
To the person who said MM lacked creativity, I personally find the dungeons in that game to be the best 3D dungeons to date.

A lot makes up for the lack of dungeons in MM, but I do agree with a steady decline since the Wind Waker.
I'm really hoping that Zelda Wii is something groundbreaking, or at least not disappointing.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 12:34:57 am by Lance9384 »
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