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Author Topic: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons | NEW DEADLINE |  (Read 20360 times)

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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 01:45:02 am »
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Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
I don't see the big issue.

Of course you don't <_<.

Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
It's just like writing a walkthrough. Developers have to know how to solve the dungeon too remember, and writing up a little text file won't kill anyone.

Have you played a Zelda game for the first time with a walkthrough? I made the mistake of doing that. Guess what, the game sucked because of it. Had I experienced it first hand and explored on my own, I woulda enjoyed it.

Recap: You remove the fun and original attraction to it by spelling it out. That's why it's flawed.
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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2009, 01:55:29 am »
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Disregard this post.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 04:34:51 am by DJvenom »
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Jeod

Team Dekunutz, Doubleteam
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 01:57:50 am »
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Then do that and let us figure out how it works. But anyway I made a simple example of how it could be done using Tail Cave. Now stop ruining contests you vets!  :P
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2009, 03:32:28 am »
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Quote from: Mamoruanime on June 22, 2009, 01:45:02 am
Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
I don't see the big issue.

Of course you don't <_<.

Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
It's just like writing a walkthrough. Developers have to know how to solve the dungeon too remember, and writing up a little text file won't kill anyone.

Have you played a Zelda game for the first time with a walkthrough? I made the mistake of doing that. Guess what, the game sucked because of it. Had I experienced it first hand and explored on my own, I woulda enjoyed it.

Recap: You remove the fun and original attraction to it by spelling it out. That's why it's flawed.

I don't understand why you have to be so negative about this.

Quote from: DJvenom on June 22, 2009, 01:55:29 am
I fancied the idea of who could make the most appealing looking dungeon, graphics wise. Not have to explain how to beat it using a preset cache of items or anything.
same with you, thanks to you two, now I think people will not sign to this (that tends to happen alot around here someone says something and 3 people follow him one complains about zfgc and later you see 10 topics related to how zfgc is death) >_> so yeah, thanks alot.

I really don't see a issue at all, in first place if you didn't liked you should have posted when Ren posted the draft of the rules not when the contest is taking place.. and DJ graphic wise it will be judged even if not judged people prefer to vote to something that has more eye catching objects into it, I understood that you have to make a walkthrough so that people who are programmers can take any dungeon design and program it, obviously some will edit what they dislike and program it >_>.... I don't see any flawed stuff in it.. frankly your attitude toward this contest sucks <.< I was expecting better post comming from you two.. or better yet no post at all >_<.
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Jeod

Team Dekunutz, Doubleteam
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2009, 03:42:05 am »
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Indeed. If someone wants to use the dungeon map though, then the maker can provide more details. It doesn't have to be a full-blown walkthrough.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2009, 04:09:37 am »
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Quote from: Kren on June 22, 2009, 03:32:28 am
Quote from: Mamoruanime on June 22, 2009, 01:45:02 am
Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
I don't see the big issue.

Of course you don't <_<.

Quote from: Jeod on June 22, 2009, 01:42:22 am
It's just like writing a walkthrough. Developers have to know how to solve the dungeon too remember, and writing up a little text file won't kill anyone.

Have you played a Zelda game for the first time with a walkthrough? I made the mistake of doing that. Guess what, the game sucked because of it. Had I experienced it first hand and explored on my own, I woulda enjoyed it.

Recap: You remove the fun and original attraction to it by spelling it out. That's why it's flawed.

I don't understand why you have to be so negative about this.

Quote from: DJvenom on June 22, 2009, 01:55:29 am
I fancied the idea of who could make the most appealing looking dungeon, graphics wise. Not have to explain how to beat it using a preset cache of items or anything.
same with you, thanks to you two, now I think people will not sign to this (that tends to happen alot around here someone says something and 3 people follow him one complains about zfgc and later you see 10 topics related to how zfgc is death) >_> so yeah, thanks alot.

I really don't see a issue at all, in first place if you didn't liked you should have posted when Ren posted the draft of the rules not when the contest is taking place.. and DJ graphic wise it will be judged even if not judged people prefer to vote to something that has more eye catching objects into it, I understood that you have to make a walkthrough so that people who are programmers can take any dungeon design and program it, obviously some will edit what they dislike and program it >_>.... I don't see any flawed stuff in it.. frankly your attitude toward this contest sucks <.< I was expecting better post comming from you two.. or better yet no post at all >_<.

We can't help the fact that the contest is fundamentally flawed. As I stated in another thread; you can have the awesomest dungeon ever, but the way this is set up now, the splendor gets lost in translation. I was merely stating that there needs to be some form of structural change to the contest. The way the contest is set up now could really shaft some people hard.

Again; it's a good idea, but I don't think the contest terms were ironed out. You can't just make a mockup and a walkthrough and judge things based on that. It's the experience that makes zelda dungeons so fun, not the pencil and paper breakdown.
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DJvenom

super-sage
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2009, 04:16:08 am »
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Fixed all my posts for you. Now if people don't enter, or don't finish, it's on their accord. Not mine. Have fun, and I look forward to all the entries!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 04:35:30 am by DJvenom »
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2009, 06:31:20 am »
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I'm actually writing an engine to build mine on. I'm not really caring at all about optimization or if I accidentally do something in a roundabout way, I'm just making it work :P
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Quote from: Jason
Your community is a bunch of stuck up turds.
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2009, 10:59:06 am »
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Actually, Jeod's working on the graphics and I'm working on an engine. ;D No one ever mentioned anything about you guys having to read through the walk-through the first time you played it. You can try to figure out how it works without it... again, stop being so negative about it and get to work. :P
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2009, 11:07:22 am »
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Quote from: Darunia on June 22, 2009, 10:59:06 am
Actually, Jeod's working on the graphics and I'm working on an engine. ;D No one ever mentioned anything about you guys having to read through the walk-through the first time you played it. You can try to figure out how it works without it... again, stop being so negative about it and get to work. :P

In other words, you're making a fully functional zelda engine for a contest? <_< So judging won't take place for what... A year?

Anyway, "trying to figure out how it works" without being able to play it would, again, ruin what it's about. Making an engine to play the dungeons means creating something that few ZFGCers have even finished, so that's flawed in itself. <_< I mean come on. It's not being negative, it's being realistic. I think it's cool to have a dungeon contest, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking there's any possible way to judge this correctly without the proper prerequisites.
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Jeod

Team Dekunutz, Doubleteam
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2009, 12:08:54 pm »
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We're doing as much as possible within the set amount of time. But following the rules, we won't start actual mapping until the 28th.
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2009, 04:09:09 pm »
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Quote
So judging won't take place for what... A year?
Jesus mammy, who the hell said the whole contest depended on the few of us who are actually making engines? Like Jeod said, we're trying to do as much as we can in the limited amount of time given. If the engine's not finished by then, well that's our problem. We're the ones who decided to go this way.

Plus, if people want to make it playable and are too lazy to code themselves, there are tons of awesome engines out there, including Goodnight's and whatnot. I'm actually having lots of fun doing this, it's been a while since I had to do some brainstorming. :P
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Jeod

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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2009, 05:37:23 pm »
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I'm having fun too. I actually made an entire boss in gbc style. BTW it's free for use in any other fan game, just not in this contest. And I'm only showing it now to hopefully spark some motivation in others.
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2009, 10:43:55 pm »
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Yeah, I'm building off goodnight's movement engine.
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Quote from: Jason
Your community is a bunch of stuck up turds.
Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2009, 03:38:47 pm »
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I'm actually done with a fully custom movement/collision/whatever engine. ;D Good luck. :)
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2009, 02:22:05 am »
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I'm entering!
I'll be doing set 7
Quote
Set 7 - 9 hearts minimum
Item Acquired in Dungeon: Lens of Truth
Items Already Acquired: Sword, Shield, Deku Sticks, Boomerang, Ocarina, Bow, Bottle, Roc's Feather, Bombs, Flippers, Iron Boots, Ice/Fire Arrows
Dungeon theme will be..um..some sort of glowing dimensional thingy...
I don't know.
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Raen

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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2009, 04:33:30 pm »
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Ok, whoa, looks like the innevitable drama happened while I was gone (bad timing, I suppose? I should have seen it coming and not made this contest until I got home, but I digress).

ANYWAY.

I really wish people had brought up a lot of this stuff in the idea topic. There, people pretty much said they thought it was a good idea, albeit logistically hard. People never even kind of mentioned the kinda stuff they are here. Had we discussed things thoroughly maybe we'd have avoided these problems. But what's done is done, no need worrying about that. What we need to worry about is now, and making this competition work.

First of all, 2 weeks isn't long enough for the competition now that I think about it. I'm extending this thing to a month, and if you REALLY want to make an engine, go ahead and work on that now (but not actual mapping, please).

As for making engines: Yes, having a playable game is probably the best way to show off a design. However, this competition is about just that: DESIGN. It's about being a good designer; a good planner. People around here often skip the conceptual stage and just make stuff. That's what I'm trying to teach people NOT to do. I want you guys to plan and be able to present your ideas in a format that allows others to understand those ideas without playing the game. That's how design works: You come up with the idea, communicate them to others, and THEN you make the game, and often indie devs ignore that and just start making crap (and often it becomes just that, due to improper planning).

So yes, even those of you who are making engine should present explanations of your design reasoning behind the dungeons (in other words, descriptions of puzzles). I want to know WHY these things are fun, I don't want them to just be fun.

ALSO, I'd love it if someone would be willing to make a basic engine for use in this competition, but that only happens if someone volunteers.

Now, to DJ and others: What can I do to improve this competition? I'd like to have specific, direct ideas, not just vague criticism.

And as a closing note, remember to NOT DO ANY ACTUAL MAPPING UNTIL THE 28TH. I need time to adjust rules and such. I can't stop you from doing work, but if rules change that make what your doing not work properly, it's not my fault.
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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2009, 07:34:47 pm »
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First off, welcome back! :)
Oh. I skipped the part where you said you were stil on holidays. Hope you're having a good time. ;P

Quote
ALSO, I'd love it if someone would be willing to make a basic engine for use in this competition, but that only happens if someone volunteers.

Hmm. I'd love to make my engine public but... I don't want to for three main reasons.
1.It's not good enough to show it off to other people.
2.I doubt anyone would understand my way of coding. Also, it's somewhat messy. :P I find my way around it but I doubt anybody else would.
3.I'm sort of stuck at the moment and I haven't got alot done. :s

I COULD show YOU what I've done til now... but.. you'd probably laugh at me. D: So yeah. :P

But what happens to the people who already started making an engine and suddenly somebody comes and makes one definite engine for everbody to use? Like me. All the work we've done would be no use. :(

/wining

I'm glad more people are joining! :D
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 07:38:12 pm by Darunia »
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Kingknight

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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2009, 01:49:03 am »
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When will we be supplied with the tileset? probably the 28th right?
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Jeod

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Re: Zelda Design Competition #1 - Dungeons
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2009, 01:58:28 am »
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Wait, we're getting tilesets? *Throws out OoS maps and whistles*
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