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Author Topic: The Vista Caliber!  (Read 1816 times)

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The Vista Caliber!
« on: July 11, 2006, 04:46:06 pm »
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Have any of you heard of the new system the Caliber by the startup company Vista? Its supposed to be really cool with really cheap games! On a note of seriousness though, my brother and I are starting up a company called Vista with hopes of making a basic gaming console called the Caliber. Our idea is to have it run Macromedia Shockwave Player from ram, then run a director file from off of the disk. This would support Flash and Director games, since you can put a Flash game into a director file. We have plenty of money to spend designing and building the console, but I'm not exactly sure where to start. My plan is...

1. Buy all the parts (listed below)
2. Make the BIOS screen in Flash. Import it to Director. The BIOS system's Game option would run the file "D:\core.dir"
3. Shockwave Player and the BIOS file would be burned to the system's ROM.
4. Assemble the parts and plug into a TV
5. Burn a director game called core.dir onto a CD, and make sure that the video and audio output work.
6. Build a case for the console
7. Design and Build the controllers, whos buttons are mapped to keyboard keys. There would have to be a special controller for P1 and P2, but they would be included.
8. Keep one model for ourselves. Start building more and selling them.

But I don't know where to buy ROM or how to write to it. And I don't know which OS is good for quick startup and compatible with my chosen hardware. My chosen hard ware is:

1. 52X Sony CD-Rom Drive
2. Cooling Fan
3. Intel Celron D 2.5 Ghz Processor
4. GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card (with S-Video output)
5. 128 MB Ram

The games would cost between 10-20 dollars, and would really help us out with profits because they would cost only about a dollar or so to manufacture. Can someone recommend any other hardware that I might need, especially for the controllers, and how I would go about writing to ROM. Thanks for your help!

EDIT: And to Joeshmo: Don't worry. I'm going to pay for Netterra before I spend anything on this.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 04:50:42 pm by Moldorma »
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 04:56:04 pm »
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Wow, that's a good idea, and you planned a lot on it... However, I kinda have something against Flash games, I just... can't like them... :P
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 04:57:41 pm »
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If you can, run linux. If you don't mind making the console $100, buy 256 or 512mb of ram, 512mb is only $34. As for running shockwave player, why would you want to do that? Shockwave player is rather slow and does not support 3d. I suggest writing your own programing language baseing it on one already existing, such as python, C++, or one of the many other scripting/programming languages.
As for parts, this is what I suggest:
1. 256 or 512mb ram
2. 32x cd rom drive
3. 256mb graphics card(or less)
4.A processor anywhere from 1ghz to 2.2ghz, go with the cheapest one
5. A small fan to cool off the graphics card and processor
6. A 16 bit audio card(these are really cheap);
7. A version of linux, these cost nothing. Simply do a search for linux on a torrentsite or something like that.
8. A flash memory card, it doesn't have to have a huge ammount of space on it, just enough to install linux and the drivers
9. Multiple USB drives, you can use usb drives to connect controlers. Another alterantive is to use ps2 ports, the ones standard to keyboard and ect.
10. A standard power suply.

If you want to get on AIM, I could talk to you about the pricing and ect.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 05:08:49 pm »
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Well, I already found a 52X drive for only $40, and a 2.5 Ghz processor for $75. I forgot about the audio card though. And Shockwave does run 3D games, because it runs Macromedio Director games, which supports 3D. I think the console would be probably more around 200 in the end, but the cheap cames make it up to the customer, and they make it up to me because of how cheap they are to make. :)
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 05:13:24 pm »
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You dont need a 2.5ghz processor for a machine like this. 1ghz would do. They only cost $40-$50. Cheap games won't really make it up if the person is an extremely casual gamer and only plays a few games. Plus, with 75$ processor, a 52x drive for $40, You still need ram, flash memory, a graphics card and several usb slots.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 05:16:19 pm »
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Okay, that makes sense. I already have an idea for the Graphics Processor, and its the cheapest one I could find. I alreay have an idea for ram as well.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2006, 05:24:30 pm »
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Lets talk on aim moldy. I found a few good things too.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2006, 05:27:53 pm »
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o_O

So what you are saying here is making a computer which is connected to a TV instead of a computer monitor <.<?
I mean, it isn't actually a console, really. It's more like... an xbox... a computer >_>

Why would you want a 52X drive... Are you sure games actually needs to be read this fast? Why not go with something older, and cheaper which is not overkill?
My first thought about the processor was "it's also overkill".. But then I had a second thought and maybe it's good considering flash is not native code. However, the processor is still overkill if you think about how little RAM there is (seriously, 128 Meg is not enough if you're going to make games that even utilize 50% of the power of that processor)
Then there's another problem. I would recommend using Linux for this, but then again flash and all that macromedia stuff isn't very supported on Linux (e.g. we don't have version 8 of flash yet). But if you choose to use Windows... it's gonna be costy ;)

Summary: I doubt anyone would want a "console" at 200 bucks where they can play games just as good as they can on their own PC. Why not sell your games and let people use them on any system they want? What you're trying to do now is forcing people to buy another computer dedicated to your games (which they don't even need, really). I know I would just buy your games (if I wanted) and play them on my own PC with a normal random PC-controller plugged in, because that's just as good (actually better, because my computermonitor is better than my TV).

EDIT: And trying to change the BIOS is ridiculous... Flash isn't meant to be executed from the very basics.. it has to have a operating system under it.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 05:30:20 pm by Venus »
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2006, 05:38:07 pm »
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Whats the difference between a console and a computer? They both have the same basic parts, but the console runs an executable file from some kind of storage directly opposed to computers running executable files from an operating system. If we did go with executables we would need to recompile the entire shockwave flash player into byte code and put it on a disc along with the swf it would play. Yikes.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2006, 06:05:36 pm »
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A console is a computer. Still, this is built like a personal computer, except the parts are in a typical "console design" (kinda like how xbox is)
Where the executables are located has nothing to do with it.

The shockwave flash player is already in byte code, however, it is not a raw ROM.. it's an executable made for an operating system to run it (that's why you can't put it in BIOS).

But REALLY.. Anybody could just as good upgrade their personal computer and play the games on that (much cheaper also). If you want to make a console you need to make games that are only playable on it (emulation not counted in). Anybody can just put the CDs in their PC and open the flash file from there, so why would they buy an extra 200 dollar computer/console completely dedicated to your games. And actually they would be able to play many more games on it if they put in an external HDD in the USB slots, then they could install about any game and run it (with a mouse and keyboard in some other USB slots, or an USB hub if you only have one USB slot) BUT they can STILL do that on their own computer, which they even can upgrade for those 200 bucks.

It's like Nintendo made a console that can run Java natively (yes there are processors running Javainstructions) and made all their games in Java. Why would I buy that console then? I could just as good buy the controllers, plug them in my PC (with adapters) and run the games on that (because Java works on PC).
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2006, 07:37:46 pm »
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Quote
It's like Nintendo made a console that can run Java natively (yes there are processors running Javainstructions) and made all their games in Java. Why would I buy that console then? I could just as good buy the controllers, plug them in my PC (with adapters) and run the games on that (because Java works on PC).

Well C++ works on your PC now doesn't it?  And yet you can't run a gamecube game, a ps2 game, an xbox game etc on your computer without an emulator..The games are made to work on just consoles by using their own custom libraries and whatnot to the language.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 07:39:40 pm by MasterGohan Zero »
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2006, 07:47:52 pm »
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Okay, forget the idea of us using Flash. We're going to be writing games in some language else. Probably Python or C++, since I can't find anything easier to learn. And then it would be just like any other console, but less power and cheaper games.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2006, 08:17:47 pm »
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Quote from: MasterGohan Zero on July 11, 2006, 07:37:46 pm
Quote
It's like Nintendo made a console that can run Java natively (yes there are processors running Javainstructions) and made all their games in Java. Why would I buy that console then? I could just as good buy the controllers, plug them in my PC (with adapters) and run the games on that (because Java works on PC).

Well C++ works on your PC now doesn't it?  And yet you can't run a gamecube game, a ps2 game, an xbox game etc on your computer without an emulator..The games are made to work on just consoles by using their own custom libraries and whatnot to the language.

C++ compiles to native code of ONE architecture (x86, ARM, MIPS etc. etc.). Java is meant to be emulated everywhere, but C++ not. See, actually I don't even have to have a PlayStation, since I can put PS games in my computer and play them through an emulator (For it to be legal though, I'd have to pay Sony for the BIOS in the playstation since I can't own [have a license for] that unless I have a playstation), and it is still compiled in C++ (same with cartridges but now the price for backupdevices and the hard work seems to just make it pointless, no?). So it wasn't the language that made my point, my point was that you can play it on other systems already so why should you buy yet another system?

Quote from: Moldorma on July 11, 2006, 07:47:52 pm
Okay, forget the idea of us using Flash. We're going to be writing games in some language else. Probably Python or C++, since I can't find anything easier to learn. And then it would be just like any other console, but less power and cheaper games.
1. Python is also crossplatform. Anyone running a pythonexecutable on one platform can do it on another. That means, if you release your games on a CD with Pythonexecutables someone can copy them over to their PC and play them just as good there (without emulator).
2. Actually, since your hardware in this console is so very like that of a standard PC (Intel processor, average graphicscard, CD for games etc. etc.) I could just tell you that C++ wouldn't be anything different either. Just see my example with Playstation. If let's say, you have Linux as OS, and you release games as Linux executables on CDs (and maybe with resources and stuff, either embedded in the file or external) someone could just install Linux on their PC (if they haven't already) and run those executables from their PC (without emulation)! Now, if you use Windows as Operating System (like some "cheap" Win98/2k or something), it will be even more easy since like 80% of your users (at the very least) use Windows :P If you however use raw x86 instructions, it could be trickier, but probably people would just have to place the CD in their drive and go to BIOS options and choose to boot from it and voila; your games boots on a standard PC without emulation, yet again!

Please, follow my advice: just forget about the idea of making a console. Make your games and release them for the PC. Don't force people to buy another PC if they don't want to (or have to xD), because that's just what your console is; another PC. If you want to make a console you have to make something UNIQUE. And that means, among other things; that you shouldn't just put in standard computer components.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2006, 08:51:08 pm »
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It will be unique. I... just haven't thought ahead that far yet. Now please go away and take your negativity with you.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2006, 08:58:39 pm »
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you just restated what i said about the emulatora O_o

and for the record, C++ can be run on any platform, just not the .NET version.  If he wants to make a console, let him, it's his choice really. K, i'm done now before this goes any further off topic.

And Moldorma, good luck with everything.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2006, 09:29:39 pm »
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Alright. Thanks for your help.
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2006, 10:41:07 pm »
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Hey. Nice idea...seeing as i came up with it. lol. were making our own language so bug awf
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Re: The Vista Caliber!
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2006, 10:59:06 pm »
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Quote from: Moldorma on July 11, 2006, 08:51:08 pm
It will be unique. I... just haven't thought ahead that far yet. Now please go away and take your negativity with you.

It's called criticism. I'm just telling you that it's not that good idea. But of course you can ignore me, it's your problem, not mine.

Quote from: MasterGohan Zero on July 11, 2006, 08:58:39 pm
you just restated what i said about the emulatora O_o

and for the record, C++ can be run on any platform, just not the .NET version.  If he wants to make a console, let him, it's his choice really. K, i'm done now before this goes any further off topic.

And Moldorma, good luck with everything.
No you missed my real point about it. I'm just saying that in the current state people wouldn't buy the "console", because they don't have to (well, at least those that has the knowledge about it). Emulating has nothing to do with it (it was just a way to describe part of my point).

The .NET version can't even be run on any platform... geez, it's a Microsoft standard >.>;; The portableness with it is that it can be ported to any OS by Microsoft.

C++ cannot be run on any platform unless the developer choose it to (by programming it to do it, or using a lib for it). And if a developer choose that his code should only be runnable on, for example, intel processors on Windows, it can only be run on other systems by emulation. Since they are going to use a system that looks the same as a computer anyone would be able to run the games on a computer and thus there are no need to buy the frickin console.

Anyways. I'm going to leave this topic now. Good luck.
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