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Author Topic: What do you think I should use?  (Read 6995 times)

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Hyperhal

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What do you think I should use?
« on: April 06, 2006, 06:02:32 pm »
  • Rock Howard
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Well, in order to make my game, I'd need to figure out which programming language I'll be using.

I have no experience with any except Python and Perl.

Vote based on how easy It'll be for me to learn and use the language, and on how powerful the language is. I'm leaning towards C, as it can be ported to mostly all platforms, and thats is a major goal of mines.
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 06:31:09 pm »
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Well neither perl or python are like C (there not even programming languages, but scripting.). But if you know the basics of programming you shouldnt have a problem learning C, its pretty simple(though i advise learning C++ not C, as OOP rocks XD).

 
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2006, 02:52:26 am »
  • The Broken King
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I agree with Helios, OOP will make your life a lot simpler. C++ is a good start, although if you're not very experienced with programming, it may be difficult to learn. If you want to make a game quickly, try GameMaker or another Rapid Development Environment. It may not be the best for cross-platformwise, etc., but it's simple. However, if you are good with programming, C++ is defiinitely a good place to start. (or, if you have someone who could help teach it to you.)
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 03:54:41 am »
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OOP only makes your life easy sometimes.  Sometimes it complicates things, and is unneeded.  If you only know Python and Perl, I would suggest learning either Java or C...or if you don't want to get too difficult too fast, Visual Basic is a good choice (though it's fairly expensive.)

C is portable, but not completely.  The syntax is always the same, if it follows the standard, but the commands typically aren't, as they're defined in header files rather than in the compiler itself (which can make the programs quite small)

If you want to use one of the "big" languages, Java is quicker to get into the graphical API than C is, and people tend to prefer either.  C is, typically, faster than Java, but I've found that Java has a...little bit of a friendlier syntax, and you don't have to deal with memory handling in Java, either.  It typically depends on the purpose of the program and whether you care to sacrifice some things for others.  Most languages have advantages, but all of them have sacrifices.
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 06:50:09 am »
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If you're just starting out with programming, I'd suggest looking into a game-centric language, such as GM. I've taken GM for a stroll, and it's a great language to cut your teeth on. It also (and this is the most important reason to start out with GM!) gives you an idea of how you should lay out your variables in code for a game. It took me years to learn this property of programming games, since I learned by trial and error rather than by example.

I know it sounds as if this is such a meager reason to go with GM, but it's really so darn important that you would be crazy to overlook the oportunity.

*****

Another big reason to go with GM: C++, VB, Delphi, most of the languages out there lack easy drawing mechanisms - and the ones that come integrated (such as VB's picture object) are woefully inadequate for programming games (not to knock VB: with the right amount of know-how, one can program a DirectX-based drawing object in VB that rivals drawing managers implemented in any other language). With GM, you can draw sprites and play music right from the beginning: with any other language, you will spend weeks, if not longer, fuddling around with tutorials trying to implement a drawing manager, and I promise you that your first try - like VB's picture object - will be slow and inadequate.

Eventually, you'll run into the boundaries of GM, and you'll want to do things that aren't possible in that language. Then, you'll be more than ready to jump head-first into another language. But you're going to want to get your feet wet with GM. =)
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2006, 12:47:57 am »
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The best jump from where you are is Java. Java java java!
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the a o d c
Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2006, 12:37:44 pm »
  • (y)(;>.<;)(y)
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I personally never Reccommend GM, i know people who get so used to the simplicity they **** up when they jump onto more complicated ones. And i mean stupid mistakes, really stupid ones. Then they rant on about how GM pwns C++'s arse like the n00bs they are. Soon their ingnorance will betray them, and I will strike. I may strike today, maybe tomorrow, maybe when they least suspect it...

I started with QuickBASIC, but the whole DOS_IS_SLOW_AS_F**K thing really stopped me using it, and i started with FreeBASIC ( http://www.FreeBASIC.net ) which has a VERY similar syntax but is really more a C in disguise, perfect for learning C then C++ if that is the way you want to go...
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2006, 03:36:30 pm »
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Quote
...i know people who get so used to the simplicity they **** up when they jump onto more complicated ones. And i mean stupid mistakes, really stupid ones.
I'll agree that switching from an interpretted, media-assisted language such as GM to a more traditional language like C++ or VB is a big jump, and would require you to rethink the way you program. However, the lessons learned while working in GM would be invaluable to your later programming.

You say that people used to GM make 'stupid' mistakes when they move to another language. I posit that these mistakes would be no greater than if they moved from, say, DarkBASIC to C++. And what's more important is that people who start with GM and then move on to another language will already have an idea of how actor objects (like sprites) should be stored in memory.

Quote
Then they rant on about how GM pwns C++'s arse like the n00bs they are. Soon their ingnorance will betray them, and I will strike. I may strike today, maybe tomorrow, maybe when they least suspect it...
omgwtfbbq? roflcopters!
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i.of.the.storm

Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2006, 05:04:17 pm »
Since you want portability, GM and VB are off the list, although I like VB a lot personally. I would probably say to learn C++ because it's more practical even if it may be a bit harder than Java. Sure Java is automatically cross-platform but we use Java in AP Computer Science and I must say, it sucks. Although I don't really know C++, for me I would rather learn C++ than Java because later if you want to get a job in game programming Java is definitely not going to cut it. You probably want to use SDL also, because it's a cross-platform multimedia library (I hardly know what that means ;)) or maybe openGL. Definitely not DirectX for portability. http://www.libsdl.org/tutorials.php (Oops, after googling I found that SDL uses openGL for graphics anyway. The good thing is that it allows you to worry about programming and not writing cross-platform code, it runs on any system).
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2006, 07:10:09 pm »
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One more important thing that will help you decide which language you want to use is what kind of support you can expect while using the language. GM has a great user community, and people on ZFGC are pretty darn proficient in it as well, and seem to be very helpful besides. If you run into any problems with a GM game, you can post questions on ZFGC and someone will probably be able to help you out.

It might not be as easy to get help with any C++ programs; you would probably have to resort to downloading code from some archive on the internet, and strolling through it while cursing the lack of comments as you try to decipher what's going on. Code written by someone else is generally terribly obfuscated, learning to program much easier if you have people you can ask for help.

So, have you made a decision yet? =)
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2006, 07:57:20 pm »
  • The Broken King
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Well, if you pick C++, I have tutorials for it which are just extremely commented Cpp files, so that could help you out htere.
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2006, 04:33:43 pm »
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Sure Java is automatically cross-platform but we use Java in AP Computer Science and I must say, it sucks. Although I don't really know C++, for me I would rather learn C++ than Java because later if you want to get a job in game programming Java is definitely not going to cut it.

I took AP comp sci last year...In that class, you BARELY scratch the surface.  Everything you learn in CS2 AP is basic programming that I pretty much learned on my own when I still used to tinker with GM back in the 4.3 days. :/ However, I was the only one to take the AP exam and pass it in my school, even though I was the youngest in the class, which I thought was kind of sad because everything was so simple.  Plus the libraries they make you use in CS2 AP are...ugh.  Why...Why couldn't we use the standard Java libs? I saw the cirriculum for when they still had C for the CS 2 AP class, and it's just as bad as the Java one, if not worse.  I'm happy they redid the cirriculum for Java...I was disappointed when the C program for CS2 AP was cancelled, but now I'm happy it was Java because....WOW it looked bad. :P</rant>

Anyways, Java IS actually good.  That class turned me off to it for a while, but once you get pass the console stuff it really is a bit...well, you can't really say "easier", but it's less complex than C.  It has its uses, and as many say, "portability".  C has that portability in a way, but the code has to be changed a bit for each platform.  It's alright if you have, say, maybe 100 lines of code...But once you get into the thousands, you're not going to want to port a program.
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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2006, 06:42:08 pm »
  • The Broken King
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I did AP Java, I hated that they used their own libraries too! But they taught a lot of stuff to me that I can't do in GM, such as lists, queues, stacks, trees, hashing, sorting, etc. Also, my school didn't actually offer it, so my friend and I had to teach ourselves, and the school had to jump through some loops to get us doing the test...twas kinda fun actually XD
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Max

Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2006, 08:44:08 pm »
  • Crazy Monkey
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Since you know python already, trying the Pygame module.  PERL also has the SDL module for graphics.  Python and PERL are both good langauges because of their fast development practices.  I personally like PERL better.  I'd never use Java, too ugly and slow.
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aab

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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2006, 10:03:31 pm »
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alright if you have, say, maybe 100 lines of code...But once you get into the thousands, you're not going to want to port a program.
I just use libraries that do all of that for you: STL, the standard c libraries (depending on how much im not threading) and maybe use something like wxWidgets (though i dont likw the way it uses so many of its own types), or for a game, opengl and sdl combined (or go one or two hundred steps easier with something like Irrlitch, though..hmmm...: Definately wouldnt use it for 2d games as its easy enough with opengl, and very powerful ).
It can of course be a pain, searching for libraries that do what you want them to do, or writing your own, uglified with namespace polluting preprocessors everywhere.
But it'd also be a pain being constricted to javas libs: But then again they do what youll need, and are right there for you, no searching. Java has, generally, easier development (=> cheaper), and porting withought recompilation for a variety of systems. Part of its practical use is => by companies in competition. Game development of course is an incredibly competitive area, and many businesses have died with the dreams of their poor owners: But using java would generally compromise the products quality enough for far worse effects than the benifits that would be gained in using it, except for tiny phone games (space invaders remakes) that many members here could make in a week. Man i hate the way mobile phones suck money out of everyone in so many ways...Its so vile...so much should-be-free-internet-crap with a  price on it, and people buy it...
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I ♥ Sol
.... I ♥ Sol ? wtf how long has that been there? >_> *rrrrrrrrar*
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Hyperhal

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Re: What do you think I should use?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 04:05:58 am »
  • Rock Howard
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I'm still leaning on C/C++ for the reason that everything being stated is for windows, am I am a linux user.

Java is pretty nice, but I didn't like working with it >_>

Perl/Python'll be slow for games, as it has to compile everytime you run the game, right? And I don't think 5 thousand lines of text'll load up fast >_>
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