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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 24077 times)

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Religion
« on: January 03, 2008, 08:42:56 pm »
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The debate has spread through many topics in AND out of the Debates Board. It needs a home again. What do you believe? I myself am an atheist. I don't believe there is a god or heaven/hell. However I don't believe nothing happens after death. See my other topic for that though. I'm born half Jewish and half Christian. Around holiday times I switch religions so it coincides with me getting presents. But truly I don't believe in any of that stuff. You?
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Dantztron 3030

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Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 08:53:52 pm »
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To be exact, I am a non-affiliated Theist (meaning I believe, with absolute certainty, in some sort of divine power.) However, I usually refer to myself as Agnostic despite the slight discrepancies between the two because A) it's easier to say and B) it doesn't make me sound like an elitist jerk. My reasoning is pretty simple: I go by what I feel in my heart, to hell with logic. Do I sense God around me? In some cases, yes. There are times in my life where I have experienced things that are profoundly spiritual and moving, especially in nature and beauty. But the Jesus thing...it just doesn't add up to me, and my reasoning isn't based on research or facts...it's just what makes sense to me intrinsically.

That being said, I still celebrate Christmas with my family and friends, as well as other Judeo-Christian holidays. Why? Because they bring us all together, and they are as much of a family tradition as a religious one. I have several friends who are devout Atheists that still celebrate Christmas. No matter what anyone tells you, Christmas is not only a religious institution but a capitalist and American one, and it's not going anywhere.
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Quote from: CeFurkan on September 10, 2010, 08:30:51 pm
well i dont have that system and it is very hard to care about everything when you are single

Malon

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Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 08:59:34 pm »
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I believe in scientology, myself.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 10:30:52 pm »
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Quote from: Malonfan2012 on January 03, 2008, 08:59:34 pm
I believe in scientology, myself.

Just a question about that. Does anyone REALLY believe in it? Like REALLY believe in it. Not just joke around.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 10:39:58 pm »
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I usually call myself an athiest, I don't really know if that's the right term.  I believe in the universal truths... I mean like the laws of nature.  They are the laws that shape and govern our world-- isn't that what "god" did?  To me, the laws of nature are the "supernatural force".  Its kind of a science beleif, but at the same time, its more than just theories or facts for me.  But then again, it also has no personal signifigance to me.

So I guess you could call me an agnostic... I guess?  I'm really not sure about any of it.

Anyway, I celebrate christian holidays I guess-- Christmas :D
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Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 10:49:09 pm »
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I'm not Religious and I'm not against Religious People.
I'm happy under my tree.
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Quote from: Infini on March 18, 2008, 05:29:22 pm
This is an english website, please speak it.
l0l wut? o_0
Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 10:55:30 pm »
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Ah yes. I forgot to mention I am not against religious people either. They can believe what they want.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 01:59:00 am »
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Was this topic created to encourage arguments? Or is the topic description not correct?

Maybe it should say "a place to intellectually discuss religion"?



For me, there are a lot of factors that affect why I believe what I believe. The main reason I believe in God right now is that it's not reasonable to me to take up the belief that everything that physically exists came out of nowhere for no reason.

I forget what the concept is called, but like when you see something like a beautifully crafted statue or a painting, you know that the object before you didn't just happen at random, but was the creation of a creator. I think the same for people, animals, plants, etc. Our bodies are just so excruciatingly intricate and designed just too perfect for me to believe they just happened. I simply cannot believe everything came from a bunch of basic cells, changing on their own in drastically complex and intricate ways. And you can tell me it happened over millions of years-- or billions, or trillions. It doesn't make it any more logical. If I were to take up an atheistic evolutionist point of view, I'd have to personally throw reason out the window.

I'm Catholic, by the way.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 02:05:47 am by CelestialEsper »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 02:10:24 am »
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I am a Catholic, but I'm not closed to new ideas. I believe in God by half faith/philosophy and half Science. I never God around to telling my God theory... any way, the Science only accounts for "A higher being that wants us to be", so, I guess the faith goes to Catholicism. I guess I get a lot of emotional value, I can sort of feel God when I pray. I know some one is going to come and tell me that it's all in my head and I'm delusional, but, that's what I believe.

Thanks for making a home for this debate, BTW, cos it gets annoying seeing EVERYTHING turing into a religious flamewar.
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2008, 02:24:41 am »
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Quote
I know some one is going to come and tell me that it's all in my head and I'm delusional, but, that's what I believe.

Yeah, dude. I shared an experience I had once with some atheists and I was just cut the heck down immediately. =o
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Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2008, 03:08:34 am »
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Quote from: Moldrill on January 03, 2008, 08:42:56 pm
I'm born half Jewish and half Christian.
Jews are a race, but Christians are not, you can't be born Christian.

I'm a Christian, a Baptist to be specific(yes, it does matter because some other denominations believe weird things).

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 04, 2008, 01:59:00 am

I forget what the concept is called, but like when you see something like a beautifully crafted statue or a painting, you know that the object before you didn't just happen at random, but was the creation of a creator. I think the same for people, animals, plants, etc. Our bodies are just so excruciatingly intricate and designed just too perfect for me to believe they just happened. I simply cannot believe everything came from a bunch of basic cells, changing on their own in drastically complex and intricate ways. And you can tell me it happened over millions of years-- or billions, or trillions. It doesn't make it any more logical. If I were to take up an atheistic evolutionist point of view, I'd have to personally throw reason out the window.
That's what blows my mind about people who believe in macro evolution.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2008, 03:21:01 am »
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I don't see why Macro evolution can't work with the concept of God in some peoples minds. When a sculptor is making a statue, he he starts with a big rock, continues with a crude model, and finally makes his desired statue. So yeah, if you look at the bible, the creation story sort of follows the creation of mankind. First the big appearance of light, the creation of land, then the ocean, and the first animals appearing in the ocean. Blah blah blah, mankind appears. God rests (evolution pauses for humans). That would make sense, as we have completely outgrown evolution. Just look at how we let the sick live.
Anyway, when you are an all-knowing deity, you can hit something perfectly so that all will unravel as wanted. (Humans being created)


EDIT: Oh, and Limey, from some of the things I've heard from you before, you seem kind of Agnostic, but more on the unaffiliated-Theist side (as opposed to the "We never know side"), but now quite.
Heh.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 03:23:39 am by Dracon »
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 04:30:18 am »
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Quote from: Dracon on January 04, 2008, 03:21:01 am
I don't see why Macro evolution can't work with the concept of God in some peoples minds. When a sculptor is making a statue, he he starts with a big rock, continues with a crude model, and finally makes his desired statue. So yeah, if you look at the bible, the creation story sort of follows the creation of mankind. First the big appearance of light, the creation of land, then the ocean, and the first animals appearing in the ocean. Blah blah blah, mankind appears. God rests (evolution pauses for humans). That would make sense, as we have completely outgrown evolution. Just look at how we let the sick live.
Anyway, when you are an all-knowing deity, you can hit something perfectly so that all will unravel as wanted. (Humans being created)


EDIT: Oh, and Limey, from some of the things I've heard from you before, you seem kind of Agnostic, but more on the unaffiliated-Theist side (as opposed to the "We never know side"), but now quite.
Heh.

I mean yeah, God could have used macroevolution, but I don't think He did personally. I have a Catholic friend who believes God used evolution to create people. I think that series of thoughts leans more towards compromise than anything else. Obviously, microevolution can be observed, and as I've said before it was even mentioned in the Bible.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2008, 05:20:47 am »
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The book of Genesis is stuffed with massive helpings of symbolism, if you haven't checked recently. Anyway, I don't put all of my faith in the Bible, for various reasons. One, the bible was written for Jews thousands of years ago, and not for people with modern knowledge, and two, because you never know what was switched up for the sake of not getting eaten by Roman lions. =/
Oh, and can you tell me in a PM where it says that microevolution is possible in the Bible? I'll go grab Dad's Bible to verify it.
But yeah. I'm not a Bible-banger. I don't search through the text for little things, I just take the main idea and let my own thought do the rest. I disregard most commandments of the old testament (except for the big 10), because those were more made for the ancient Semetic society, and really had nothing to do with God or my faith. I think the whole Seven days/Adam and Eve story is... semi-mythical, for lack of a better term. You can't explain genetic mutations to Semites from 5,000 years ago.
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2008, 05:28:53 am »
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I've been calling myself an Atheist for years but in a discussion I had with someone a while ago I was told that I am actually Agnostic.
I don't believe in any kind of god or greater power. I am however open to the concept. I guess when it comes down to it I'm undecided.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 05:34:58 am »
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That'd be more like agnostic. There are different kinds of agnostics, from the ones that say "maybe" to the ones that just don't have faith, but think there is a God.
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 05:47:41 am »
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Quote from: Dracon on January 04, 2008, 05:20:47 am
The book of Genesis is stuffed with massive helpings of symbolism, if you haven't checked recently. Anyway, I don't put all of my faith in the Bible, for various reasons. One, the bible was written for Jews thousands of years ago, and not for people with modern knowledge, and two, because you never know what was switched up for the sake of not getting eaten by Roman lions. =/
Oh, and can you tell me in a PM where it says that microevolution is possible in the Bible? I'll go grab Dad's Bible to verify it.
But yeah. I'm not a Bible-banger. I don't search through the text for little things, I just take the main idea and let my own thought do the rest. I disregard most commandments of the old testament (except for the big 10), because those were more made for the ancient Semetic society, and really had nothing to do with God or my faith. I think the whole Seven days/Adam and Eve story is... semi-mythical, for lack of a better term. You can't explain genetic mutations to Semites from 5,000 years ago.

About the Bible having nothing to do with modern day people? Bull crap, son! =)
Sure, it's not like the Bible is a History book in that somethings are interpeted in various ways and a lot of things don't have a definite specification, but there are many, many parts of the Bible that relate to anyone of any generation.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 05:59:50 am »
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Well, I mean, it works for this generation, but it's not quite tailored for it. It was made for your 5,000-year-old peasant. Not that I don't have faith in the Bible, but, =/
The new testament is a lot more straight forward. Much more relative to people today.
There are so many stories is the old testament, too. Seriously, the story of Samuel and the Wich of Endor? Does that have any meaning in it? That's why the Old Testament is so big and fluffy. A lot of meaningless things...
Eh. Needless to say, I don't care much for the Old Testament.
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 01:57:01 pm »
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I'm not sure whether atheist, agnost, nontheist or nihilist is the correct label for myself.. but you get the general idea. I don't believe in a divine entity because I see no reason to. There's no evidence at all that he exists, so why should I be positive that a so-called god exists?

Also, the reason that the being of matter must have had a divine origin - since it is supposedly impossible that all matter in the universe appeared at once - is a fallacy. According to many scientists, the chronology is something like that: nothing, a big bang and matter appeared. According to many religions, there was a God, then some witchcraft and voilà, the beginning of all. The question that comes to mind is then; how did that God came to existence.. he just popped into being? Clearly, he can't have appeared at once. There are no theories that could explain how he appeared. So there you go, trying to explain the origin of the universe using religion makes you run into the same problem as trying to explain it using the normal scholar set of tools.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 04:14:14 pm »
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Quote from: NeoGeo-x on January 04, 2008, 01:57:01 pm
So there you go, trying to explain the origin of the universe using religion makes you run into the same problem as trying to explain it using the normal scholar set of tools.

More problems, in fact, because Creationists can give no mechanisms by which God would've created the universe, let alone anything that can be tested; they resort to "because he's God. He can do anything".

Scientists can give a series of testable and definitely possible hypothesises, and a number of mechanisms, which all fit with what we know of the universe, rather than resorting to an explaination of "it's unexplainable".
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