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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 24080 times)

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Re: Religion
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2008, 05:29:03 pm »
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Quote from: Dracon on January 04, 2008, 05:59:50 am
The new testament is a lot more straight forward. Much more relative to people today.
The Old Testament was written for the Jews, and the Jews only.  It focused on the extremely strict law that God set down.

The New Testament is focused on the new church, not just the Jews but also all the Gentiles.  If you're a Christian, you don't really need the Old Testament because we don't have to live by that (again, extremely strict) law.

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Re: Religion
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 04:33:36 am »
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Quote from: NeoGeo-x on January 04, 2008, 01:57:01 pm
I'm not sure whether atheist, agnost, nontheist or nihilist is the correct label for myself.. but you get the general idea. I don't believe in a divine entity because I see no reason to. There's no evidence at all that he exists, so why should I be positive that a so-called god exists?

Also, the reason that the being of matter must have had a divine origin - since it is supposedly impossible that all matter in the universe appeared at once - is a fallacy. According to many scientists, the chronology is something like that: nothing, a big bang and matter appeared. According to many religions, there was a God, then some witchcraft and voilà, the beginning of all. The question that comes to mind is then; how did that God came to existence.. he just popped into being? Clearly, he can't have appeared at once. There are no theories that could explain how he appeared. So there you go, trying to explain the origin of the universe using religion makes you run into the same problem as trying to explain it using the normal scholar set of tools.

What most people have told me is that god was always there. God exists outside of time.

God didn't appear. Appearing is something that happens inside time.
God isn't affected by time because god created time.

The analogy I use is as follows:

If you create a video game which is bound by certain rules you are not bound by those same rules. The same can be said for God and the universe.

I simply want to add that these are not my opinions. I am simply presenting them. The analogy is mine though.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 04:39:07 am »
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Best analogy ever. I'll remember that. :P
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Religion
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 06:34:13 am »
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But the video game is created by someone from what the creators consider the real world. Does that mean all gods are really just people in other worlds who believe themselves to be real when really they were created by people? Hmm, who wants to help me start a cult based around this idea?

On another note, at some point in everyone's life, they comes a time when they hear, see or read something which makes them want to be the catalyst which brings about the end of all things. Every time religion is debated and I'm aware/apart of it, I seem to read/hear comments from both sides which cause this immense feeling of "desire to be the catalyst" in me. I personally think this is both a testament to my self-control, and proves that because I haven't destroyed the world, I must be really a kind and caring person. What is kinder than not destroying the world?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 07:42:49 am by TheDarkJay »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 08:37:05 am »
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Ever wonder why there's so much suffering in the world?

Cause god gets his power from the tears of children (like I do).
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Re: Religion
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2008, 08:51:24 am »
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Quote from: Swiftu on January 05, 2008, 08:37:05 am
Ever wonder why there's so much suffering in the world?

Cause god gets his power from the tears of children (like I do).
So, Chuck Norris = god?
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Swoftu

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Re: Religion
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2008, 09:45:38 am »
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Quote from: Easy_D on January 05, 2008, 08:51:24 am
Quote from: Swiftu on January 05, 2008, 08:37:05 am
Ever wonder why there's so much suffering in the world?

Cause god gets his power from the tears of children (like I do).
So, Chuck Norris = god?

Chuck norris isn't funny anymore (never was).

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Re: Religion
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2008, 02:45:50 pm »
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Quote from: Mitsuu on January 04, 2008, 05:29:03 pm
Quote from: Dracon on January 04, 2008, 05:59:50 am
The new testament is a lot more straight forward. Much more relative to people today.
The Old Testament was written for the Jews, and the Jews only.  It focused on the extremely strict law that God set down.

The New Testament is focused on the new church, not just the Jews but also all the Gentiles.  If you're a Christian, you don't really need the Old Testament because we don't have to live by that (again, extremely strict) law.


You'll find that the Old Testament isn't all about law, dismissing it completely because "we don't have to live by that" is foolish. There is an abundance of things one can learn from it, taking into account its context and an open mind.

But yes, the New Testament is obviously what Christians should be focused on. I think many Christian's need to study it more deeply, since many forget that Christianity is not based upon religious activities but rather a relationship with God which is been almost forgoten in our "busy" society that is all self focussed.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 02:48:13 pm by alspal »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2008, 06:52:33 pm »
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Quote from: alspal on January 05, 2008, 02:45:50 pm
Quote from: Mitsuu on January 04, 2008, 05:29:03 pm
Quote from: Dracon on January 04, 2008, 05:59:50 am
The new testament is a lot more straight forward. Much more relative to people today.
The Old Testament was written for the Jews, and the Jews only.  It focused on the extremely strict law that God set down.

The New Testament is focused on the new church, not just the Jews but also all the Gentiles.  If you're a Christian, you don't really need the Old Testament because we don't have to live by that (again, extremely strict) law.


You'll find that the Old Testament isn't all about law, dismissing it completely because "we don't have to live by that" is foolish. There is an abundance of things one can learn from it, taking into account its context and an open mind.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like we should dismiss the Old Testament, obviously there are many morals we can gather from it.  What I mean is simply that because we're Christians the Old Testament's law does not apply to us.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm »
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Quote from: NeoGeo-x on January 04, 2008, 01:57:01 pm
According to many religions, there was a God, then some witchcraft and voilà, the beginning of all.

Nope, Witchcraft is condemned in Christianity. And Witchcraft is basically the polar opposite of God, so yeah.

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how did that God came to existence..

It's Christian belief that God always was and always will be. If you want to attempt to wrap your mind around that concept, think of forever but go in reverse.

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More problems, in fact, because Creationists can give no mechanisms by which God would've created the universe, let alone anything that can be tested; they resort to "because he's God. He can do anything".

It should be obvious to you that if you were to uphold the idea that God created the universe out of nothing, his creation (being an incomprehensibly minuscule spec in an infinite void in comparison to Him) couldn't begin to understand it, measure it, or observe it. It's not a "resort" or an excuse when a Christian says, "he's God." If you were to know what that means-- what a god is--  you'd have no trouble seeing the argument.

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If you create a video game which is bound by certain rules you are not bound by those same rules. The same can be said for God and the universe.

Good way to put it. It's like Pyru is Link from The Legend of Zelda thinking Shigeru Miyamato doesn't exist because he can't find him in the game's coding or perceive a real-life person with his video-game AI.

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Chuck norris isn't funny anymore (never was).

Oh no he didn't! =O
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Re: Religion
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2008, 08:53:51 pm »
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Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm
Quote from: NeoGeo-x on January 04, 2008, 01:57:01 pm
According to many religions, there was a God, then some witchcraft and voilà, the beginning of all.

Nope, Witchcraft is condemned in Christianity. And Witchcraft is basically the polar opposite of God, so yeah.

It's an analogy. It basically says that God created things by what are effectively magical powers, not real, physical mechanisms.

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm
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how did that God came to existence..

It's Christian belief that God always was and always will be. If you want to attempt to wrap your mind around that concept, think of forever but go in reverse.

And there's scientific evidence that the universe was and always will be. It's called the First Law of Thermodynamics. God couldn't create something that, technically, can never be created nor destroyed.

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm
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More problems, in fact, because Creationists can give no mechanisms by which God would've created the universe, let alone anything that can be tested; they resort to "because he's God. He can do anything".

It should be obvious to you that if you were to uphold the idea that God created the universe out of nothing, his creation (being an incomprehensibly minuscule spec in an infinite void in comparison to Him) couldn't begin to understand it, measure it, or observe it. It's not a "resort" or an excuse when a Christian says, "he's God." If you were to know what that means-- what a god is--  you'd have no trouble seeing the argument.

But it's a circular argument; He's God because he created the Universe, He can do anything because He's God, therefore, He must have the ability to create the universe.

But, we have evidence for the Big Bang. We know nucleosynthesis can happen by natural means. We can observe the universe moving outwards from a single point.

But we have nothing that suggests God.

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm
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If you create a video game which is bound by certain rules you are not bound by those same rules. The same can be said for God and the universe.

Good way to put it. It's like Pyru is Link from The Legend of Zelda thinking Shigeru Miyamato doesn't exist because he can't find him in the game's coding or perceive a real-life person with his video-game AI.

Very nice. <__<

I completed the game, checked the credits; it's a very short credit list, as you'd expect.

It says "Evolution, !@#$%".

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 05, 2008, 08:38:08 pm
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Chuck norris isn't funny anymore (never was).

Oh no he didn't! =O

It's true.
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Kyubi

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Re: Religion
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2008, 01:30:07 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E</a>

Pretty much says it all. And of course, wouldn't denouncing parts of the Bible as false, or choosing not to follow them, be bastardizing Christianity, which I gather would be blasphemy? It goes over the new testament as well.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2008, 07:08:21 am »
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It's an analogy. It basically says that God created things by what are effectively magical powers, not real, physical mechanisms.

Duh it was an analogy, but it was a such a condescending statement that it deserved a retort.

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And there's scientific evidence that the universe was and always will be. It's called the First Law of Thermodynamics. God couldn't create something that, technically, can never be created nor destroyed.

First law of Thermodynamics: "The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings."

Umn.. Yeah, not really. Again, you're using the faith part of your personal belief in science that you won't call a Religion.

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But it's a circular argument; He's God because he created the Universe, He can do anything because He's God, therefore, He must have the ability to create the universe.

Not wanting to sound immature, but I'll say it anyway: you wish. God is God because he's God. There is no reason He is or conclusion stated by people. Again, if you can't understand the concept of what a god is, I can't argue with you because it's above your head.

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We can observe the universe moving outwards from a single point.

So it wasn't always there then? I guess I don't need to argue with you if you find my arguments for me.

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But we have nothing that suggests God.

I've never seen such a biased and baseless remark ever in a debate. Congratulations.

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I completed the game, checked the credits; it's a very short credit list, as you'd expect.

If you couldn't understand the analogy, just say so.



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Re: Religion
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2008, 07:39:25 am »
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I'm glad to see that people like my analogy. XD

Kyubi: I love that video. It's kind of too bad the people who made it are so condescending because if they weren't they would have a lot more credibility.

CelestialEsper: I heard someone say this and I wondered what you would have to say about it:

"If God can do anything, can God make a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?"

Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 06, 2008, 07:08:21 am
Not wanting to sound immature, but I'll say it anyway: you wish. God is God because he's God. There is no reason He is or conclusion stated by people. Again, if you can't understand the concept of what a god is, I can't argue with you because it's above your head.
Saying "God is God because he is God is exactly the kind of circular argument that Pyru was talking about. It doesn't present any information to support itself and can't be argued because there are no facts to examine.



*off topic* When Chuck Norris does push-ups Chuck Norris doesn't go up, the earth goes down. *off topic*

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Mamoruanime

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Re: Religion
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2008, 07:42:04 am »
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<_< I cant believe a thread like this was even started lol...

This debate has been going on since the dawn of time :s realistically, if you want to find out which *god is the correct God*, perhaps you should just wait until you've bitten the dust, and ask him yourself? XD
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Re: Religion
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2008, 08:50:14 am »
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"If God can do anything, can God make a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?"

lol. I don't think He would if He could.

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*off topic* When Chuck Norris does push-ups Chuck Norris doesn't go up, the earth goes down. *off topic*

Heard it before.. my personal favorite.

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I cant believe a thread like this was even started lol...

It wasn't me. ;D
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Re: Religion
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2008, 09:55:18 am »
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Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 06, 2008, 08:50:14 am
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"If God can do anything, can God make a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?"

lol. I don't think He would if He could.
what do you not think he would do?
make it, or eat it?

$10 says you don't even know what you just said.
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Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Religion
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2008, 09:59:09 am »
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Quote from: .TakaM on January 06, 2008, 09:55:18 am
Quote from: CelestialEsper on January 06, 2008, 08:50:14 am
Quote
"If God can do anything, can God make a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?"

lol. I don't think He would if He could.
what do you not think he would do?
make it, or eat it?

$10 says you don't even know what you just said.

Actually Taka; I think on that note; in Christian theology; God himself made mankind a vast array of variables :P Free will and such... So the idea behind that is... If God is all knowing, and we truly have free will, then its impossible for both to be true... But in Christian theology; or at least, completely unretarded Christian theology says that God would block himself from looking into things that He Himself set rules against; so yes. God could create a burrito that He Himself couldn't eat; as He set that rule for Himself :p
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 10:07:27 am by Mamoruanime »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2008, 10:07:55 am »
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how can he limit himself to make something possible that would otherwise be impossible?


it's just illogical and stupidly convenient.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2008, 11:29:33 am »
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So we've concluded: If God is real, he is so clever he is actually very stupid.
Sounds like my self-esteem, it got so low it became narcissism and arrogance, which is a lot more fun. Go me!

This has been a wonderful discussion.
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