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[Theforeshadower]

Theforeshadower

Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

  Something I have always had a view on: being a vigilante.  I don't know how it is in other countries, but sometimes it is bad enough in the state where I live that you want to take the law into your own hands from time to time.  Some would say that we are too civilized for such behavior and that we should let the justice system run its course.  Do you understand though that there are too many outside influences to the justice system?
Bribery, personal relationships, public portrayal, etc. can easily influence the outcome of a trial.  Now, I am not saying the entire justice system is bad.
  Let me just use an example:

Drunk driver gets into a car accident with you.  Your entire family was with you.  You and your wife weren't seriously injured.  On the other hand, your daughter is paralyzed for life and she is only 7 years old.
You did nothing wrong.  The drunk just happened to run a red light.  The justice system only gives him 2 years in prison and 4 on parole.  Would you consider that justified?  Your daughter would never walk again.  Never run, never swim, the list is endless.  But, your court system that your taxes go to, says that your daughter is only worth the drunk getting 2 years in prison.
 
Now, I'm not saying kill the guy.  But what if you decided to go back and maybe break his legs?
Would that be justified? or just vengeful rage?

And you can't tell me that that example isn't real.  I personally know someone right now who was the drunk driver and put a woman in the hospital with severe life changing spinal injuries.  He did this while intoxicated, unlicensed, and uninsured(which is illegal in this state).  He only got 2.5 years and 5 years on parole.  I wouldn't want him to get hurt as he is a friend, but with my beliefs, I couldn't exactly turn him into a victim if someone did to him what he did.

It's not about being heartless.  There was a time when a thief would lose his hand if he stole.

I don't know.  I am pretty much wondering if you guys think that in certain circumstances that vigilantism is justified.

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[शेफाली]

शेफाली

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

I'm not actually answering your question, but responding to the example. There's a saying I like: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind." I believe that was said by a man named Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi...

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

If I were a god I would kill all those who hurt others, but in doing so I would be killing myself.  The world is cruel, but it is not like the guy who hit that girl is going to have it easy.  After prison and the parole, he is going to have a hard life in terms of employment and relationships; a stricter sentence would have been more appropriate in my opinion though, even though she did not die.  The girl surely will suffer, but those unfortunate save it from the rest of us.  Then again, we all suffer.  On the human scale, life is less than a century, and while it may seem tragic, it is not the end of the world if one of its citizens is wrecked.  

[Kaede]

Kaede

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Personally I think that in the case of the example, the man gets off pretty lightly and it doesnt exactly send out the right message to everybody else. You paralyse a young girl for life and oh look you only get 2 years behind bars. To me it devalues the young girl's life, which is wrong. The man should be punished properly for what he did and made to truly regret it.

[Mewgull]

Mewgull

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

You also have to consider other things. Like why did the parents and girl get into the car? Also, if he was intoxinated, I would honestly say he didn't mean to; I know he shouldn't have been driving, but your judgement has been hindered. Also, when he is sober, and learns of the things he did, that would be punishment as well.
In my opinion, the sentence does seem a little light as well, but its justified.

[Source]

Source

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Hunting the guy down and breaking his legs isn't justice, it's being a vengeful !@#$%. I think a better example would be, say, if you saw a robbery in progress and you apprehended the thief yourself. That would be a better example of true vigilantism and should be justifiable.

The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone thought to themselves "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire." - George Carlin

(!@#$%)

Hear the haunting words (They'll find you alone)
lost children with no heart are crying (Turning their hearts into stone)
and you're the lost mother they're calling
Go now, run and hide (seek more than vengeance)
I hear them crying at night (your pain is their satisfaction)
outside when the planets are falling (for the rest of time)
They want to feel and know you hear them (Go now, run and hide)

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[bertfallen]

bertfallen

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Watch the movie Outlaw. Its not a true story (Sort of unfourtunatly).
Problem here with England is not that the police force suck or anything; its that the government and general public put to much pressure on them.

But I dunno how your police run things...

[HyperKnight32]

HyperKnight32

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

If I were a god I would kill all those who hurt others, but in doing so I would be killing myself.  The world is cruel, but it is not like the guy who hit that girl is going to have it easy.  After prison and the parole, he is going to have a hard life in terms of employment and relationships; a stricter sentence would have been more appropriate in my opinion though, even though she did not die.  The girl surely will suffer, but those unfortunate save it from the rest of us.  Then again, we all suffer.  On the human scale, life is less than a century, and while it may seem tragic, it is not the end of the world if one of its citizens is wrecked.  

For some reason that reminds me of death note, when Yagami first found the 'death note' he tried it out on a criminal and thought in his own mind that he was like a god.

But that's not the point, I guess sometimes you have to do what feels right, even if it's 'breaking the law'. Heck, a robber can sue someone for injuring themselves while breaking into a window, I know lots of people wouldn't stand for it and would probably beat the crap out of that guy, wouldn't be calling that true justice though.

I guess vigilantism can be justified at times, if it's something that feels right and won't bring forth a guilty conscience then I'd go for it. But I wouldn't want to be full of rage and become a 'vengeful !@#$%' just because I don't agree with the law.

I like potato.

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[Mamoruanime]

Mamoruanime

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

I personally don't believe just anyone should be able to play the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

The idea that anyone can get a notion of vigilantism and condemn another person to a fate that was decided by said vigilante is bad. Judgment is based on opinion, moral compass, and stability; and everyone has a different uniqueness about them for each of those things.

I think it's best that things go through the proper legal channels, rather than having vigilantes.

[TheDarkJay]

TheDarkJay

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

I think the result depends on the actions. The problem with the law is things tend to be very set in stone, "If x is proven, we do y. If x and z happens, he gets y + t". Whilst in theory it's good and it keeps the taxes down, it doesn't solve that every situation is unique and must be treated as such.

I'm sure they are some situations where being a vigilante can solve them. A very clever Mass Murderer who clearly did it but got off on a technicality, for example, someone who either must be imprisoned but can't because of said technicality unless they kill again, and who most likely will kill again, and has already killed a lot of people.

[.TakaM]

.TakaM

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Watch the movie Outlaw. Its not a true story (Sort of unfourtunatly).
Problem here with England is not that the police force suck or anything; its that the government and general public put to much pressure on them.

But I dunno how your police run things...

and watch the movie "Brave One", jodie foster gets brutally beaten, her husband killed, and they take her dog
So she takes out her revenge on every rapist/mugger/criminal in New York

[bertfallen]

bertfallen

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Watch the movie Outlaw. Its not a true story (Sort of unfourtunatly).
Problem here with England is not that the police force suck or anything; its that the government and general public put to much pressure on them.

But I dunno how your police run things...

and watch the movie "Brave One", jodie foster gets brutally beaten, her husband killed, and they take her dog
So she takes out her revenge on every rapist/mugger/criminal in New York

Outlaw beats it cos its got Sean Bean in it!

Nahh I shall have to watch Brave One when I get chance too.

[Dracon]

Dracon

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Vigilantism is great only when it´s your only, or best way to stop crime, but when it comes to breaking a guys legs for justice... well, I think that´s wrong.

And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.

[Kylink]

Kylink

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

I personally don't believe just anyone should be able to play the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

The idea that anyone can get a notion of vigilantism and condemn another person to a fate that was decided by said vigilante is bad. Judgment is based on opinion, moral compass, and stability; and everyone has a different uniqueness about them for each of those things.

I think it's best that things go through the proper legal channels, rather than having vigilantes.

Agreed. It's society's way that we must come to a civilized agreement on what is right, wrong, and what is truth. By having people able to go about serving punishment to other people, what's to stop vigilantes from hurting innocent people?

Grimace is the demiurge, the creator. From him all things in McDonaldland have sprung. He is not a sin, he's not a menu item, he's just Grimace. He exists. He rolls his lidless eyes and flaps his lipless mouth, formless and terrible, a protean idiot thing from the depths of pre-history.

[Kren]

Kren

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

Well, in my town things are getting way too !@#$% up, I do say Vigilantism should be a must here, there is tons of corruption, and there are alot of drug dealers band fighting to get this territory, they started to kidnap important people, actually the anti kidnap leader was also kidnapped (he is my neighbor) kinda an irony but still this is getting way out of controll, I would love to see some guys get some weapons and start killing the drug dealers gang.

[Theforeshadower]

Theforeshadower

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

I personally don't believe just anyone should be able to play the role of judge, jury, and executioner.

The idea that anyone can get a notion of vigilantism and condemn another person to a fate that was decided by said vigilante is bad. Judgment is based on opinion, moral compass, and stability; and everyone has a different uniqueness about them for each of those things.

I think it's best that things go through the proper legal channels, rather than having vigilantes.

Agreed. It's society's way that we must come to a civilized agreement on what is right, wrong, and what is truth. By having people able to go about serving punishment to other people, what's to stop vigilantes from hurting innocent people?

But you must remember, there will always be those who will never be civilized.  How do you deal with those people?  And I have never(not that I can recall) heard of anyone that became vigilantic for themselves or those close to them, hurting innocent people.  Not saying it never has happened.

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[Kame]

Kame

Re: Vigilantism - Justified? or still wrong?

How can you put the value of a life in terms of a prison sentence?

Hunting the guy down and breaking his legs isn't justice, it's being a vengeful !@#$%. I think a better example would be, say, if you saw a robbery in progress and you apprehended the thief yourself. That would be a better example of true vigilantism and should be justifiable.

QFT.
Being a vigilante doesn't mean wreaking violent revenge on offenders. To be honest, you couldn't have been a vigilante in that situation. Being a vigilante is, say, watching someone stealing a piece of fruit and instead of calling the cops or alerting somebody, forcibly taking the fruit back and returning it.