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[Pyru]

Pyru

What should the US do?

To truly improve things for its citizens?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7511426.stm

Read that first, then discuss.

[शेफाली]

शेफाली

Re: What should the US do?

What should the US do...To truly improve things for its citizens?

National healthcare is the obvious answer to that; but people also need to take better care of themselves. Obesity is a stupid cause of death.

[Mamoruanime]

Mamoruanime

Re: What should the US do?

Honestly I wouldn't get your information on America from the BBC ...

It seems to be the hip thing for other countries to do; "rag on our health care"; but really, it's not that bad. Most jobs offer that anyway, and cover nearly all medical expenses.

[tippz]

tippz

Re: What should the US do?

Yeah I kinda hate the entire notion of universal health care because it takes a bad system and makes it worse. You see, the biggest problem in the American health care system is insurance. Doctors often order more tests than what might be necessary to detect the suspected problem, number one because it is far too easy to sue doctors in todays world, and number two because insurance pays for it not the patient. They will also often prescribe expensive medications when a low cost generic alternative is available, again because insurance pays not the patient. This unnecessary cost on the insurance company is directed immediately to the insured in the form of higher rates. This of course makes it harder for poor people to get insurance. So, you end up with poor people who can't afford insurance that just keeps getting more expensive.

Well, imagine if not even the insurance company had to foot the bill. Not even a deductable to the patient! Rates can never go up because of a claim... Well you can see how this just prompts doctors to prescribe more expensive medication and perform more expensive tests. In addition, now everybody can afford to go to the doctor for everything! Sounds great, until you actually need to see a doctor for something serious at which point you realize that every office is overbooked and impossible to get into in a timely manner. Oh, and don't forget that doctors in countries with universal health care tend to make less money(varies from marginal to quite substantial amounts) so less people want to become doctors thus exacerbating said problem.

So how do we fix it?

A great start would be to cut costs in the two areas outlined above. If every doctor worked with the goal of keeping the medical care as low cost as possible for not only the patient but the insurance company as well, then perhaps we could get rates down to a manageable level for everyone.

Emergency rooms also really hurt hospitals financially (forcing up costs elsewhere), mostly due to the fact that they don't refuse treatment so those without health insurance will sometimes use them as a free clinic. Just come in, get treatment, and walk out on the bill. This problem is a bit trickier, for obvious reasons, but it needs to be addressed as well...

[Infinitus]

Infinitus

Re: What should the US do?

Well, imagine if not even the insurance company had to foot the bill. Not even a deductable to the patient! Rates can never go up because of a claim... Well you can see how this just prompts doctors to prescribe more expensive medication and perform more expensive tests. In addition, now everybody can afford to go to the doctor for everything! Sounds great, until you actually need to see a doctor for something serious at which point you realize that every office is overbooked and impossible to get into in a timely manner. Oh, and don't forget that doctors in countries with universal health care tend to make less money(varies from marginal to quite substantial amounts) so less people want to become doctors thus exacerbating said problem.

Ok I have to call !@#$% on this right now, this sounds like the same anti-socialist health care propoganda thats spouted repeatedly in countries where there is no universal health service. I live in the UK which as you probably know has the NHS (which most of my family work with in one way or another). I've been to the doctors countless times over the years, and I've never had any problems at all more or less strolling right into my GP's and getting seen to, and I live in an area that has a pretty high populus. And even if on a rare occassion it is over booked and you have a serious problem, just go to the A&E, you'll get seen to pretty quickly there. As for making less? Ptth, thats nonsense, I know from my immediate and extended familys jobs and from countless evaluations on the internet that they get payed the same if not more than doctors in the USA or similar countries.

so less people want to become doctors thus exacerbating said problem.

Off hand I actually believe in this country that we have a surpluss of doctors at the moment, and to few jobs to fit them in.

[tippz]

tippz

Re: What should the US do?

Ok I have to call !@#$% on this right now, this sounds like the same anti-socialist health care propoganda thats spouted repeatedly in countries where there is no universal health service. I live in the UK which as you probably know has the NHS (which most of my family work with in one way or another). I've been to the doctors countless times over the years, and I've never had any problems at all more or less strolling right into my GP's and getting seen to, and I live in an area that has a pretty high populus. And even if on a rare occassion it is over booked and you have a serious problem, just go to the A&E, you'll get seen to pretty quickly there. As for making less? Ptth, thats nonsense, I know from my immediate and extended familys jobs and from countless evaluations on the internet that they get payed the same if not more than doctors in the USA or similar countries.

Perhaps the problem of overcrowded medical facilities isn't (and wouldn't be) as severe as some opponents to UHC would have you believe, but it is one area where nations with UHC score consistantly lower in than those without UHC. I will concede that this is not always the case, perhaps in the UK it isn't but exceptions don't make the rule. 

As for higher salaries? Yeah actually not the case at all. Being that I live in the US, the closest analog to our society (with universal health care) would be Canada. There is no doubt its culture and economy are more similar and reliant on the US' than any other naiton. So if you look at applying UHC in the US, why not see how it does in this analog? Well Canada proves both of my points quite well. I live close to the Canadian border and guess what. I know several Canadian doctors who have moved over here to, get this, make more money. Again, maybe not the case elsewhere, but I believe that it would be an issue in the US, which is what the debate is about anyway.

[Kyubi]

Kyubi

Re: What should the US do?

Ok I have to call !@#$% on this right now, this sounds like the same anti-socialist health care propoganda thats spouted repeatedly in countries where there is no universal health service. I live in the UK which as you probably know has the NHS (which most of my family work with in one way or another). I've been to the doctors countless times over the years, and I've never had any problems at all more or less strolling right into my GP's and getting seen to, and I live in an area that has a pretty high populus. And even if on a rare occassion it is over booked and you have a serious problem, just go to the A&E, you'll get seen to pretty quickly there. As for making less? Ptth, thats nonsense, I know from my immediate and extended familys jobs and from countless evaluations on the internet that they get payed the same if not more than doctors in the USA or similar countries.

Perhaps the problem of overcrowded medical facilities isn't (and wouldn't be) as severe as some opponents to UHC would have you believe, but it is one area where nations with UHC score consistantly lower in than those without UHC. I will concede that this is not always the case, perhaps in the UK it isn't but exceptions don't make the rule. 

As for higher salaries? Yeah actually not the case at all. Being that I live in the US, the closest analog to our society (with universal health care) would be Canada. There is no doubt its culture and economy are more similar and reliant on the US' than any other naiton. So if you look at applying UHC in the US, why not see how it does in this analog? Well Canada proves both of my points quite well. I live close to the Canadian border and guess what. I know several Canadian doctors who have moved over here to, get this, make more money. Again, maybe not the case elsewhere, but I believe that it would be an issue in the US, which is what the debate is about anyway.

The UK has 60 million people living in it, and there's no problems getting seen to anywhere. There's a doctor's in pretty much all local areas, as well as private practises, not to mention at least one hospital in every city. Now the US's population is 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.), and its total area excluding outlying regions is 9,629,091km², as opposed to the UK's population of 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.), and a total area of 242,900km² excluding outlying regions. As a ratio, US's population to total area is roughly 30:1, yet UK's is about 250:1, yet we can manage fine.

Now tell me, why wouldn't an NHS-like system be possible in the US?

Gannon-banned brother.

[Infinitus]

Infinitus

Re: What should the US do?

The UK has 60 million people living in it, and there's no problems getting seen to anywhere. There's a doctor's in pretty much all local areas, as well as private practises, not to mention at least one hospital in every city. Now the US's population is 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.), and its total area excluding outlying regions is 9,629,091km², as opposed to the UK's population of 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.), and a total area of 242,900km² excluding outlying regions. As a ratio, US's population to total area is roughly 30:1, yet UK's is about 250:1, yet we can manage fine.

Now tell me, why wouldn't an NHS-like system be possible in the US?

Not sure if thats directed at me or not, but my argument was not whether or not a socialist healthcare system would work in the US (although I believe it can), that wasn't the point. My point was just to argue against tippz belief that all UHC systems are overcrowded, have lower salaries, and so forth.

[Theforeshadower]

Theforeshadower

Re: What should the US do?

All I know is that this better not happen.

I'm not paying more money out of my pocket that I'll never see.  The government gets plenty of money as it is.  If they want this, then they can do it with what they have.

I'm already paying enough into the Social Security and Medicare which I'll never see.

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