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Author Topic: Philosophical gaming  (Read 1966 times)

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Philosophical gaming
« on: October 28, 2010, 03:32:47 am »
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Games which, like novels, have a primary purpose of simply making you think. Take for example, Planescape: Torment. A cult classic, with very little emphasis on combat and much ultimately on a simple question:

"What can change the nature of a man?"

A question with so many answers that reveal so much about the person creating the answer. Take me for example, ask me this question and my answer would be profit. What can change the nature of a man? What he stands to gain from making that change. Others would come up which so many different answers, age, time, death, belief, hope, fear, regret, so many possibilities. These kinds of games are, ultimately fascinating. They offer insights into the human condition, and our own depravities.

Knights of the Old Republic 2, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, all of these were story based in my opinion. It was the story that interested me, the story that kept me playing, and the choices that story provided that made me play again.

These are the games that we replay because we want to see real differences in our choices, they are highly character based, highly plot heavy, and I think we need more of them. I am interested in what you all think of almost entirely story-driven games, to the point of being almost if not entirely interactive fiction. From a game development point of view, the pros and cons of such games would be a fascinating discussion.

So, what is your opinion on low-action, high-narrative games? What do you think can change the nature of a man? ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 03:49:55 am by TheDarkJay »
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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 03:57:57 am »
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hmm Game wise, I would go with Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, and lately Bioshock, but the last one dissapointed me alot >-<.
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Dantztron 3030

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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 04:03:35 am »
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I've always been attracted to story-driven games, but the problem I often have with modern "moral choices" in games is that they are far too clear cut. You're either a saint or you're a douchebag. The only game I've played that I felt came remotely close to reflecting real moral finesse was Dragon Age, because many of your actions had evil consequences no matter what, or there were occasionally different means to approach either a good or bad choice. But still, it was scripted.

And until games are technologically advanced enough to be completely unscripted, they'll never get it right.
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well i dont have that system and it is very hard to care about everything when you are single
Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 04:10:19 am »
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For all it's faults (bugs and generally being unfinished) that's why I liked KoToR2. It was easy to play the idealistic anti-villian or the misanthropic anti-hero, characters which break the typical "Saint, Sinner or Apathetic" mold set by Bioware. Obsidian in general seem to be better at providing moral "greyness" for player characters.
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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 04:56:43 am »
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Good/Evil choices never really mattered to me.
In the back of my mind, it's always a videogame.
That being said, I love viewing a character in the state of mind that you describe, Jay.  I love a story where the protagonist is forced into a situation where he has to look into himself to decide what kind of a man he is and/or what kind of changes must take place.
The most potent game that comes immediately to my mind is Metal Gear Solid and MGS 3:Snake Eater.  Don't know why, but Snake's struggles,be it Naked or Solid, as a man fascinate me.
MGS 1, Snake struggled with trusting former allies, loyalty to his duty, loving another human being, helping someone weaker, sibling rivalry, and so on.  The story does a great job by placing all of this on Snake's shoulders in a matter of hours.  Always makes me think of how I could handle that kind of a situation.
I think that in the end-game, Snake's life was changed from human emotions that he had since really bottled away.
Then again...it's still just a videogame.

But, animes that I like are much closer to what I am trying to describe.
Basically, stories I like are like Mobile Suit Gundam 00, Code Geass, and Gurren Lagann.
All of those seem to have a very heavy atmosphere of what changes a man's nature.
Yeah, Gundam 00 and Code Geass deal with world peace blah blah.  But look at each characters' development.  It's about what changes them as a person.


Uh, it's 12:55am for me so if that is jumbled...lol sorry.
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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 03:11:53 pm »
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Even though I didn't actually play Mass Effect, I heard about the big moral choice in the game.  It was really amazing.  It had many people I know sitting at the screen for 20+ minutes just trying to decide which was morally the greater good.

Don't read if you ever want to play it:
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The enemy is a group of a race of androids of some sort, and they believe strongly in a philosophy that you are fighting against.  You can eventually deal with them in one of two ways.  Deactivate the entire group (effectively killing them), or reprogram them to follow the other group's ideals.

What would you rather do:  Die for what you believe in, or be forced to take the other side without ever knowing the difference?
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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 05:13:57 pm »
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"What can change the nature of a man?"
I would guess experience.

But I think "moral choices in games for progress" are just that, "choices in games for progress". Because the game has a "do-over" factor, which negates any moral responsibility.

Any philosophy in story and character development is only visible for the person that is open to it. Any other person would say it is fun because it has a lot of action or gore or it is just boring because it has to many story interrupting it. And when you ask them about the philosophy you most likely get something like "Huh".

The same goes for any series. Take for example the Gundam series. Most people would say it is nice action series where big mecha are fighting each other with a lot of explosions. Yet for those open to a philosophical questions, it is a series about the nature of war and the role it has in the lives of people. And when looking over all the series you would see a genuine debate.

Even though I didn't actually play Mass Effect, I heard about the big moral choice in the game.  It was really amazing.  It had many people I know sitting at the screen for 20+ minutes just trying to decide which was morally the greater good.

Don't read if you ever want to play it:
Show content
The enemy is a group of a race of androids of some sort, and they believe strongly in a philosophy that you are fighting against.  You can eventually deal with them in one of two ways.  Deactivate the entire group (effectively killing them), or reprogram them to follow the other group's ideals.

What would you rather do:  Die for what you believe in, or be forced to take the other side without ever knowing the difference?
That is not much of a moral choice.
Show content
It is a choice about whether you want to look at the robots a while longer.

I can remember when I was young and I played Secret of Mana. I came to a point where I had to make a decision about whether I would give an important and powerful object to the bad guys. Giving it up would mean the bad guys would use it to lay waste to the world and running away with it they would kill the woman who was important to the world and me. I thought it was a choice between creating a tragedy now or sort out the mess later. I couldn't continue playing. I did not touch my SNES for over a month. But when I did I decided to make a choice, play a bit, turn of the SNES without saving and then make the other choice, just to see what would happen. To my disappointment the same happened in both cases.

That is when I learned that any choice made is just a choice to progress the game. Later when I learned about games with multiple endings I played the game once and then played it again with other choices. I got to see the other endings, but it only confirms my believes that moral choices in games are no moral choices. Just a feature to motivate you to play again with other choices. The only philosophy in it is how the creators progress the game after a choice.
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Re: Philosophical gaming
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 09:50:54 pm »
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I have come across games sort of like this. They have low action, but very high story. I don't think they touch up on philosophy much, but they do pit you as a distinct character, and they do discuss the human mind a bunch.

If you're wondering, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Penumbra: Overture, and Penumbra: Black Plague are the games I'm talking about.

They are scripted, so you do not have many choices as what path you take, but the character development is phenomenal.
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