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Author Topic: Pokemon Should Do This!  (Read 4114 times)

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Koh

Pokemon Should Do This!
« on: September 07, 2012, 10:51:39 pm »
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Okay, so a lot of people really aren't understanding why I'm really starting to dislike the route Pokemon is undertaking.  But after I give them my thorough explanation and solution, then they understand why I feel the way I do.  So let's break this into 2 sections:  The what and why, and the solution.

The What and Why
Pokemon Black and White.  Let's open this paragraph with a fragment sentence.  Overall the games are DECENT, but why aren't they amazing?  Here's the problem...historically, and innovatively speaking, Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal were the best games of the series.  Why?  They brought MANY staples to the series that still exist in almost all the games today.  Breeding, day/night cycle, communication tools, two regions in one game with 16 badges to get total, improved engines, etc.  It was mind-blowing when these games first came out, and sold a ton of copies, all for good reason.  The design of the world was done in a way that made the games open for exploration and easy to branch off and make your own path after certain points of the games, therefore making the games non-linear after that point of the games was reached, which is after Goldenrod City, by the way.

Pokemon Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald come out years later and introduce a few more elements to the series, while, for some reason no one knows, dropping the day/night cycle for these games.  That was a dumb move.  What could possibly have went wrong?  Who knows.  But ultimately, it wasn't there, so the Pokemon World on these games (as well as FireRed and LeafGreen) were trapped in a forever-daytime dimension.  Easy to overcome, but why the heck was such a feature able to be put on a system that has LESS processing power and memory, and not the newer one?  Sense, it makes none.  Continuing on, these games also stripped a bit of the player's choices in which directions they could take when exploring.   While they had a couple, it wasn't as open as it was during the Johto games.  This marked the start of the Hand Holding Era, I like to call it.  Sinnoh followed suit.

Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum were then released years after that, bringing back Day/Night that should've been there since the beginning, and introducing a small number of staples as well as the usual engine improvements.  However, these games were the TRUE start of the Hand Holding Era.  Not once in these games are you able to branch off and pick which route you want to take.  You constantly have to follow the path they set out for you.  HOWEVER, the map wasn't designed in such a way to make you feel like you are, because of all the twists and turns.  This is a good mask, and better than Black and White for that, but still...doesn't change the fact that you still couldn't do anything off the beaten path.

So finally Black and White came out after those.  These are the worst in the Hand Holding Era.  Why is that?  It's not because of the story, which these games are actually the most plot-driven of the series.  It's because of it's extreme linearity.  What compelled the games to take such a nosedive in this regard?  So the Kanto games allowed you to branch off after going through the Rock Tunnel to get to Lavender Town...The Johto/Kanto games allowed you to pick after Goldenrod, and subsequently in Kanto, you could go pretty much anywhere you wanted right off the bat, Hoenn cut it down to a minimal choice, and then Sinnoh set the solid stone path of traversing while Black and White followed suit.  Apparently, Black and White 2 do the same exact thing.  What's with the downward spiral?  Isn't Pokemon supposed to be about EXPLORING THE WORLD, while looking for partner creatures and collecting badges to become a Pokemon master?  Pokemon Black and White feature a relatively small map compared to the rest, which gives you the illusion of a circle at first.  But in actuality, you only get to travel around one side before you beat the game the first time, effectively making the path to the Pokemon League more or less a straight line.  A STRAIGHT LINE.  After the  Johto games, the exploration factor deteriorated while the story factor exponentially increased.  Why can't both go up?  Why should you have to sacrifice one for the other?  And this is where my proposal comes.

The Proposal (Solution)
So what could possibly add to fix the games now that they chose this route?  Ultimately, if things continue the exact same way, nothing.  There's nothing you can ADD to this to fix it.  But there're somethings you can CHANGE.  And here's what they are:

Gym Order:  Why make it an order?  This is the first problem of the games, in which it's tackled completely wrong.  What they need to do here, is instead of making the region setup so you HAVE to do Gyms in a certain order, why not make it so you can get to every Gym of the game right from the start?  But how would this work, some might ask?  It's really not hard to grasp.  Each Gym basically ranks up in levels of the Pokemon the higher you climb.  So that should've put a spark in their minds that the Gym Leader's power should be determined by the number of badges you have.  This way, people have freedom to take on any gym they want in any order they want.  So for example, everyone knows that on Pokemon Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, FireRed and LeafGreen that you battle Brock, then Misty, then Lt. Surge.  But why not let people choose to go after Misty first, who's team's levels would be tailored to the number of badges you have, then backtrack to Brock, who would at this point be stronger than Misty, and then Surge?  Or even Surge, then an even stronger Brock?  This would allow for many different combinations, which would effectively change how the entire game is played, and would also offer a ton of replay value. 

Cutscene Driven Events:  So nullifying the starting scenes, since you wouldn't have any badges at that point, all cutscenes should be based on how many badges you have.  In just about every game, something will happen to the plot after you get to the next gym and clear it.  So instead of locking the player in that area until they get their grubby mitts on that badge, why not make the same events trigger in a different location based on the number of badges?  For example, on Black and White, Cheren wants to challenge you right after each gym to see how strong you are.  That can be done at anytime, with him coming off screen from whatever location you're at to where you're standing, and then you'd do your little encounter there.  Team Plasma is supposed to stir up drama near the Gym as soon as you leave?  Why not make it happen right outside the Gym you decided to do next, instead of a specific location?  See, there's no reason to barricade the players in like that.  Everything would be based on the number of badges you have, and the difficulty would be scaled to that.

HM Badge Requirements:  This should be gotten rid of entirely.  If you find a Hidden Machine, you shouldn't have to have some badge to be able to use it, you should just be able to use it.  How does the program know you have the badge or not anyway, and who keeps track of that?  Why are you allowed to use it in battle, but not on the overworld?  This concept never made sense, and it still doesn't.  If you find or receive a Hidden Machine, you should be able to use it right away to explore more areas.

Random Trainers:  Unlike the cutscenes, these guys should have their teams scaled base on the average level of your current party.  This way, not only are you able to go to what would be considered the "end area" of the game and still be alright, but also would make it easier to find a trainer to train your full Level 1 Party without having to battle some random wild Pokemon first.

---
So does this all make sense?  It should...it's not cryptic.  Who else agrees with all of this?
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  • Megaclipse Games
Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 02:21:20 am »
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I'm with you in almost every single thing you pointed out. But let me say that Pokemon is plotless. Come on, is always the same: get the 8 badges, defeat the bad guys, win the league, get a legendary. And that's that. Plotless. Anyway, the only one I think it got some plot was Gold/Silver. I loved the idea of travelling between two regiones. And the idea of fighting the Pokemon master, oh, that was surely something great!

I agree with you on the day/night cycle, it should have never been removed. But, I really liked Emerald, because of the Battle Frontier. In Platinum the Frontier was awful. It had a lot of new features, but still not as good as Emerald's.

I also believe that Pokemon has become pretty easy to win. In Red/Blue, the Elite 4 and Champion had Pokemons in levels really high, and pretty difficult to defeat.

My suggestion: Nintendo should do a game that has an interesting plot, involving all the regions, somehow, like the anime, of having a guy who travels every region. Though, it'd be very hard, as you're getting all the 8 badges from each region, you take the pokemons from Kanto into Jhoto, and at the beginning, you have them at level 80!
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Koh

Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 03:54:16 am »
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My suggestion: Nintendo should do a game that has an interesting plot, involving all the regions, somehow, like the anime, of having a guy who travels every region. Though, it'd be very hard, as you're getting all the 8 badges from each region, you take the pokemons from Kanto into Jhoto, and at the beginning, you have them at level 80!
Eh.  I don't necessarily want all the regions in one game (as you pointed out, the level cap would be reached in no time, and then it'd boil down to Lv 100 vs Lv 100 all the time.), and I definitely don't want it like the anime.  The anime fails.  It should be more like the manga, if you've ever read Pokemon Adventures/Special.  It's wayyyy better than the anime.
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  • Megaclipse Games
Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 05:01:29 am »
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All good ideas, and my favorite Poke game is definitely Gold / Silver
Haven't played many of the new ones at all, really the countless new animals have been scaring me off since the GBA versions.

My personal idea would be a gritty reboot. You play as a hardened cop fighting crime... The kind of crime that haunts the city streets every night. Adults, and even young impressionable kids, are getting into Pokemon fighting. Pitting innocent animals against each other. The animals fight to the death. They are constantly engaging in battles on the streets, or trapped within illegal devices called Poke Balls. The "trainers" fight these poor beasts against each other for sport, or for money.

As a police officer you have to go out and rescue these Pokemon, while arresting the trainers. You may have to kill some Pokemon yourself if they are pitted against you.. and it's not uncommon for the drugged out thuggish trainers to carry firearms on them as well. People will die. Pokemon and humon alike. This is... POKEMON: BLOOD MONEY
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 10:52:29 am »
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It should be more like the manga, if you've ever read Pokemon Adventures/Special.  It's wayyyy better than the anime.

I left at the chapter 220, or so. It's actually pretty good, but the problem is that it will be difficult to make ALL that characters in a game. And yes, it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better that the anime.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 11:07:57 am »
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All good ideas, and my favorite Poke game is definitely Gold / Silver
Haven't played many of the new ones at all, really the countless new animals have been scaring me off since the GBA versions.

My personal idea would be a gritty reboot. You play as a hardened cop fighting crime... The kind of crime that haunts the city streets every night. Adults, and even young impressionable kids, are getting into Pokemon fighting. Pitting innocent animals against each other. The animals fight to the death. They are constantly engaging in battles on the streets, or trapped within illegal devices called Poke Balls. The "trainers" fight these poor beasts against each other for sport, or for money.

As a police officer you have to go out and rescue these Pokemon, while arresting the trainers. You may have to kill some Pokemon yourself if they are pitted against you.. and it's not uncommon for the drugged out thuggish trainers to carry firearms on them as well. People will die. Pokemon and humon alike. This is... POKEMON: BLOOD MONEY

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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 02:49:49 pm »
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Not too serious, no.. but I would definitely play that game. Or instead of being a cop you could be a "trainer" still, but the gameplay is like GTA but with more dog-fighting. By dog-fighting I do of course mean vulpix or arcanine fights.  :P

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Crim

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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 06:40:42 pm »
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i dont really think you can say you can branch off in any direction after goldenrod. once you get to ecruteak city, can you go west or east. right after goldenrod if you choose not to go to ecruteak you go to violet city, which, you would have already been to. but it does lead to the dark cave, which had 3 different entrances.

so other than heading east or west at ecruteak, johto is pretty linear.
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  • Crim is Pro!
Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 06:46:17 pm »
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i dont really think you can say you can branch off in any direction after goldenrod. once you get to ecruteak city, can you go west or east. right after goldenrod if you choose not to go to ecruteak you go to violet city, which, you would have already been to. but it does lead to the dark cave, which had 3 different entrances.

so other than heading east or west at ecruteak, johto is pretty linear.

I think he meant that you could go, either to Ecruteak, Olivine, Cianwood or Mahogany. Though, to reach Cianwood, you need surf.
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Crim

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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 10:11:41 pm »
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so you could go through towns in ruby and sapphire, and even in black and white you could go past towns. so you really can't count that.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2012, 10:13:59 pm »
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I must agree in almost everything but not all:

Quote
Gym Order:  Why make it an order?  What they need to do here, is instead of making the region setup so you HAVE to do Gyms in a certain order, why not make it so you can get to every Gym of the game right from the start?  But how would this work, some might ask?   
I like the idea of going to any gym you would want to go, but you are saying go from A gym to Z gym, just to battle Z gym first sounds weird, why would someone go to the last gym and not beat the first one? perhaps more than changing the orders is to make a good map that allows the player to go from gym A to gym G without realizing he is not going in the "right" order, the deal here is trick the player to not know what order there is, and whatever path he takes he is doing a right thing.


the other ones I really agree on that, here are some other solutions:

Random start:
Start in a random  city, this will probably benefit more the beat any gym in whatever order,and make it so professor X is in town searching for new trainers, so he gives you a pokemon, this also heavily depends on the map, if the HM still apply you must make the map in a way that the player can beat or can reach all areas without getting stuck.

No lvl up:
This might sound weird but in the anime if pikachu was in a game he would be lvl 100 and he still fails to win sometimes, now  in game how about making each pokemon not level up? so even if you are in route 1 with a last evolution pokemon you can still die to a pidgey, or if you have a magikarp caught at the start of the game you can win any other pokemon, this might sound crazy, but perhaps making the player win xp and suddenly learning a new move, so now you might be wondering what would be the difference between a pidgey in route 1 and a pidgey in route 35? well it's easy, the route 35 pidgey will have different or more moves than a route 1 pidgey, this way it will not only be easier to make people go in whatever direction they want but if done right each time you fight it might be a fight you will actually lose.

And lastly one that might not work:
Perhaps limiting the pokeballs or the pokemons you can catch will make player appreciate more their pokemon or think twice before knowing what to catch, and once you beat the league this rules are nullified, this can be done by saying Bill's PC is broken and can only handle X quantity of pokemons.


And lastly any Nuzlocke's rule applied to the actual gameThis takes the game to a whole new level making you appreciate the game even more and making a really crazy challenge.  The first pokemon of each area is the only pokemon you can catch in that area or if your pokemon dies in a battle it actually DIES not faint
 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 10:17:09 pm by Kren »
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2012, 11:26:51 pm »
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Heh, that would completely change the franchise for better or for worse.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2012, 11:38:57 pm »
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Good ideas, unfortunately innovation costs time and money. Nintendo doesn't want to deal with that when people buy the same games in droves anyway. They are going to milk this series for another two generations at least.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2012, 01:09:48 pm »
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dlbrooks33, you and I think alike. Pokemon games should have very open and accessible worlds. Totally with ya on this, good thoughts. Open worlds are harder to design and to manage from a developers standpoint, of course, but that's no reason to strip away so much of the exploration/freedom element. Dude, btw, you just helped make my IP better; I knew I was spacing on something.
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Koh

Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2012, 01:48:29 pm »
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dlbrooks33, you and I think alike. Pokemon games should have very open and accessible worlds. Totally with ya on this, good thoughts. Open worlds are harder to design and to manage from a developers standpoint, of course, but that's no reason to strip away so much of the exploration/freedom element. Dude, btw, you just helped make my IP better; I knew I was spacing on something.
Yes, you all understand what I mean!  Pokemon was built on the basis of exploration since the beginning....but there's no exploration anymore!  They railroad you throughout the whole game.  Your IP :O? 
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  • Megaclipse Games
Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2012, 10:56:24 pm »
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..Your IP :O?

My independent project. It's an anime-inspired action RPG that has a dynamic plot. In my old project, Spirit's Quest, I planned to allow the player to progress through the areas in any order he/she wanted. You just reminded me of that and some things clicked with my current project and I thought, "I've got make my IP like that", because my IP is very focused on giving players control to decide on various things according to individual play-style. And freedom to progress through the game's areas in whatever order desired would really work with the direction of my IP.

I really don't like the way games tend to go nowadays. Instead of allowing the player to say, "Oh that cave across the river looks like a cool place! I'm gonna go there!", the game says, "No! You see that awesome and mysterious looking cave across the river? You shall not pass!! .. until you get the raft! And that's not for some time in this linear world, so just play along until you get there". Of course, my favorite type of open world has things like a mysterious cave that cannot be accessed until you have a raft to cross the river, BUT you can see that cave and say, "I'm going to go get that raft RIGHT NOW so I can explore that sweet cave". So you can still have restrictions while giving the player a great amount of freedom.

I really hope future Pokemon games break this trend of linearity. A new Pokemon with an open world focus would be so refreshing and loads of fun! You could go choose which Pokemon to catch first and stuff. I'd love that.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 01:11:03 am »
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Ok how about this re-boot idea...

Humanmon

The Poke-sapiens are all 6 feet tall versions of the original 100. They can say more than just their own name. They have their own advanced society and all. Humans don't exist, but humanmon do, and they are smaller (ranging from medium to tiny) versions of people..

The Poke-sapiens collect them in human-balls (ewww) and battle them against each other for sport. The humanmon are varied in size and type. They can only say their name... So we have smaller breeds like "Mexican Farmer" and "Chinese Working Man" ... then we got your "Angry Upper Middle Class Fatty" and "Indistinguishable European Accent Guy" . The female version is "Indistinguishable Sexy European Accent Girl"

Just imagine a giant Pikachu with his very own "Angry Upper Middle Class Fatty" - and all that Humanmon can say is his catchy long-winded name!
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 01:37:59 am »
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Moldrill, you crack me up.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 06:01:45 am »
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Pokemon MMO and be done with it kthxbye.
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Re: Pokemon Should Do This!
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 10:09:15 pm »
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Personally I'm just plain sick of the game now. I was one of the many people who played since Red/Blue and yes I like Gold/Silver the most. But there's so many pokemon now that the idea of "Gotta catch em all" has become a complete pipe dream and even then players just catch now for competitive purposes and only go after those particular pokemon that are deemed "Overused" such as Garchomp or Blissey. If Gamefreak really wanted to impress veteran players why don't they just create a pokemon MMORPG, how hard can that be? After all World of Warcraft has 4 giant regions of its own (Azeroth, Outlands, Northrend, and starting next week, Panderia).
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