ZFGC

General => Projects => Archive => MC Link's Awakening => Topic started by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 01:52:42 am

Title: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 01:52:42 am
This topic is separate from the "What Changes Do You Want" topic for a few reasons. One, this is the community project board. So a redesign discussion belongs here. Two, the topic in announcements is meant for the whole site. I felt too much discussion about the community project in that topic would distract members from the point: what chages do you want to the SITE.

Now, if you'd like to debate my reasoning for a separate topic, fine. PM me or 4Sword. But your arguments are basically useless since this topic is actually on-topic and nothing hazardous.

On to the discussion. Here are the main points 4Sword has proposed:

-Two part system, one being the engine and the other being the game
-Open source projects
-Use of Game Maker as a development tool
-Contests committed to the community project
-Resource database that is organized and easy to sift through

Here are my main points:

-No multiple systems at once. Only one engine and one game should be worked on at a time for maximum effort. (Discussable since engines don't take a lot of work and many can be helping with them)
-Keep it simple. Nothing outlandish and ridiculous.
-Staff system to regulate opinion and keep it fair

Topic's open for discussion. Let's see some brainy ideas from you peeps who want this thing so bad!
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Kren on March 10, 2009, 02:13:03 am
hmm It will not work, last time it didn't worked no matter what the staff did, We started the city, and it never got completely accepted, we started the NPCs but the ideas were lacking same of spriters, the story had just too many things that should have been decided at first.

hmm IMO, knowing you Jeod, and you have already suggested, we should do LA Remastered or OoA or OoS remastered, but I see that as your personal project, maybe we should do something easier, just to start with, but again people will start lossing motivation to continue working.

EDIT: hmm well last time the lack of motivation from forum people to work in the project was due to the fact that the staff didn't supported it, I gave the idea of making contest but they were never maked, I also remember talking with 4Swords about putting in the project of the week long ago, but he wanted it to be posted in Work In Progress, but.. we had nothing to show except a walking demo.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Xfixium on March 10, 2009, 02:22:34 am
That is a very interesting comment Kren. I thought something of the same, but unfortunately as you said, it'll probably fail anywayz. I started a topic for a OOT2D some time ago where I tried to get people's help and input and it didn't do so well. XD I though if anything for a remaster, OOT2D would be THEE game. Considering this site's history, but I imagine people just get a sick feeling in the pit of their stomachs just thinking about that game around here.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Kren on March 10, 2009, 02:24:54 am
That is a very interesting comment Kren. I thought something of the same, but unfortunately as you said, it'll probably fail anywayz. I started a topic for a OOT2D some time ago where I tried to get people's help and input and it didn't do so well. XD I though if anything for a remaster, OOT2D would be THEE game. Considering this site's history, but I imagine people just get a sick feeling in the pit of their stomachs just thinking about that game around here.
hmm I must agree with that OOT2d is the game since, we have half of the sprites from the game (common I have seen three skutullas, three deku nuts, etc..) but yeah people seems to have moved away from zelda games now a day.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 02:25:24 am
I have created a mediafire account to store my resources.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=94fe5d9a55b3d085e7ba8e3c6e11ce208de5a6e57f4893c4c95965eaa7bc68bc

Kren, the trouble with making one of my projects a community project is that I code in Multimedia Fusion 2 while most everyone else uses Game Maker. Sure it would be useful for resource gathering, but in the end nobody can really contribute to the source code, let alone use it.

I do suggest a remastering of a gameboy color game, or LttP in MC or GBC style. It's easy to do if everyone contributes, so there's motivation. The "King of Thieves" project had a LOT of creativity that, IMO, killed the project because it would be hard to implement all of that.

Another big reason for the failure, though, is the fact that many of the contributors wanted this huge story and didn't want to leave much room for improvising. They couldn't see that if something would be hard to implement then it would have to be replaced or simplified. That lost motivation points.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Kren on March 10, 2009, 02:32:03 am
I have created a mediafire account to store my resources.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=94fe5d9a55b3d085e7ba8e3c6e11ce208de5a6e57f4893c4c95965eaa7bc68bc

Kren, the trouble with making one of my projects a community project is that I code in Multimedia Fusion 2 while most everyone else uses Game Maker. Sure it would be useful for resource gathering, but in the end nobody can really contribute to the source code, let alone use it.

I do suggest a remastering of a gameboy color game, or LttP in MC or GBC style. It's easy to do if everyone contributes, so there's motivation. The "King of Thieves" project had a LOT of creativity that, IMO, killed the project because it would be hard to implement all of that.

Another big reason for the failure, though, is the fact that many of the contributors wanted this huge story and didn't want to leave much room for improvising. They couldn't see that if something would be hard to implement then it would have to be replaced or simplified. That lost motivation points.
for the resource part we could easily use ZFGC resource, thats not the problem. about the "It's easy to do if everyone contributes, so there's motivation." I disagree, it is impossible to make everyone contribute, thats what happened with the last project, at first everyone helped, but then the motivation start to fell I blame myself for not be able to revive it, and partially the staff for not helping the project.

hmm the problem with improvising is that it will consume more time, see it this way, you have a the city map, then near the end you decide to add hookshot and to hide a piece of heart in the map that you can only reach by using the hookshot, then you have to edit the map layers just to make it work, IMO planning is important, but IMO  everything we though wasn't hard to add, it was just not well though enough, for example the roof walking and the balance thing was a huuge problem since, it took long to program and it was only going to be used in the city and probably in one or two maps of the temples, so it was more of a gimmick.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 02:37:11 am
While it's good to realize our past errors, we shouldn't discuss them for a long time. I think we can all agree that the failure was because of

a) Lack of motivation due to unsupportive staff
b) Lack of motivation due to absence of thorough planning
c) Lack of resources
d) Lack of contribution
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 02:38:50 am
hmm It will not work, last time it didn't worked no matter what the staff did, We started the city, and it never got completely accepted, we started the NPCs but the ideas were lacking same of spriters, the story had just too many things that should have been decided at first.


This is why I suggested we build a community resource list first, instead of a community fan game. Didn't anybody read my post >_>..?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 02:39:56 am
It was kind of obscured by all the other comments you made. Hence the reason for this topic.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 03:39:56 am
It was kind of obscured by all the other comments you made. Hence the reason for this topic.
Can you please elaborate?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 04:27:20 am
My idea over handling the next community project was based on two premises. The first being that if it were to fail, there would still be something that arose from the work on it that would be of use to others. The second being that if the project were to stagnate, there would be a way to give it sustainable activity again. The only real negative would be total and complete forum apathy.

My idea is something that can be done well so long as the game that is made in tandem with the engine is a simple one. Because it will be done in Minish Cap graphics, the major workings of the engine will try to best emulate what is in the Minish Cap. However simply remaking the Minish Cap would be too easy. Creating a reworking of an earlier of later Zelda game would be the next best course of action - the easiest candidates being the Zelda games for the Gameboy/Gameboy Color as some of their characters are in the Minish Cap and the Wind Waker since the style is relatively similar.

Since the engine and game are separate, contests on the forum can be set up that are either for the engine and the game or just something random that would fit in the Minish Cap style for the engine. As for the resource list, as I said previously, if the game were to be based on an existing Zelda game, there would likely be graphics in the Minish Cap style that would fit already. This would mean that in terms of graphics, there would be rips and fewer customs - with the customs themselves still being possible to do. As for doing the engine in Game Maker, it is what most people know and there already exists coding examples of how to do most things that just haven't been put together that well yet.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 10, 2009, 04:31:38 am
One thing we have to do is keep everything organized.  Like, let's get to work on the story before jumping onto enemies and sprites.  There were a lot of threads with different areas in the original project.  Also, we don't need 50 million different threads for the same thing.  I remember at one point there were 3 different threads for the storyline.  What I think we can do to fix that is only allow project leaders to create threads, but let everyone post in those threads.  That way the team can better focus on what they want to work on until they've got it solidified.  When it's done, archive it.  Then move onto the next section.  This will keep random threads from appearing.

Second, resources.  We decided on a less-than-half-finished style.  I think something existing would fit better.  Decide on a style EARLY on in the project.  Like, during story development.  Build a resource archive and make it easy to work through.

Third, this needs staff support.  That's one of the reasons why the last one failed. 

Let's get a solid team together, people who won't leave due to a lack of motivation.  Encourage help from outside of the team (the contest ideas can help with that) and keep the staff on it to make sure the forum knows about it.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Scooternew on March 10, 2009, 05:02:03 am
I'm still here...I haven't been motivated very well or active, but I've kept tabs on what is going on. I think it's a whole staff thing. I hope I'll be allowed to continue to help program on future versions of this project, or continue working on the current version. It was just getting stuff done - I felt that the lack of motivation and outpouring of graphics to actually "make" the game, and indecisiveness, caused me to lose some motivation as well. I apologize.

Still here, as always, to lend my GM programming knowledge. I mean, we still have a very solid engine we can use.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 05:19:17 am
MG-Zero:

My idea avoids the need to would about things such as plots or completely new level design. It also establishes the graphical style of the game to be Minish Cap. In terms of staff support it has the site staff to hold contests for it and many of the tools from those such as Windy will make attaining resources for it easier. It's strength is found in its standardization of an engine which can be overseen by a small group of individuals while a large share of the work can be done in small contributions by community members.

The idea I have put forward isn't as flashy as something completely new, but it would be something easy to do which could prove we all would be able to get something done. And as I said earlier, no matter what, my idea improves ZFGC in some manner even if it fails.

Scooternew:

The current version of the community project can go on, it just will no longer be considered the community project - as I have said, chances are it would get demoted to a team project if work on it were to continue or that it would just get canceled and have its resources dispersed if not. Working on the new community project might even spur some interest in the old one somehow.

The idea for separating the new community project into an engine and a game based on the engine was also put together such that it would be the easiest course of action for the programmer. If the game were to halt due to a spriting concern, other aspects of what would be a Minish Cap engine could be programmed. It is a lot more dynamic.

But yeah, you and what you have worked on would be helpful for this new project.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 05:32:03 am


The idea for separating the new community project into an engine and a game based on the engine was also put together such that it would be the easiest course of action for the programmer. If the game were to halt due to a spriting concern, other aspects of what would be a Minish Cap engine could be programmed. It is a lot more dynamic.

But yeah, you and what you have worked on would be helpful for this new project.
4sword, would it be a good idea to make the community project based on compiling resources first? Sprite sheets, music(if this is allowed but I don't see why not..), maps, and perhaps programming examples(eg: How to make an OOT text engine in C#), etc? Meh..
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 05:48:02 am
The start of the process for the new community project will include gather resources, but specific resources related to the Minish Cap. Programming resources will be Game Maker because that is what the engine will be made with - it will not be made directly from what is found but what is found will be useful for understanding how to do certain things.

Sprite sheets are only useful if they can be used by those making the game easily; e.g. Link using a sword would have the sword separate from Link, there would be an easy way to tell alignment by the use of shadows, etc. Maps would not be needed so much as tilesets would be; if a 2D game were being remade, its map can be found online and would only be used as a reference of how to place things, if the remade game were a 3D one, the maps would have to be derived from a Minish Cap tileset.

Resource gathering is fine, but it has to be related and useful to the engine. Otherwise the resource gather would be mostly irrelevant to the project.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 05:57:20 am
It would be kind of hard to keep the engine up to date :S. Bah..  I'm not even going to argue because GameMaker is the most used here :(.

Resource gathering is fine, but it has to be related and useful to the engine. Otherwise the resource gather would be mostly irrelevant to the project.
Heheh.. it would be. I'm just saying that rebuilding ZFGCs "resource list" would help spark fan game development again.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 06:09:29 am
It's not that I dislike "advanced" programming languages. In fact, I love C++ and in my recent boredom I have been trying to write a sprite system that stores and reads graphics in a similar style to how it would be on a GBA/DS - in terms of avoiding image redundancy in different but similar sprites when possible. It is like that for most "advanced" type projects here - in that they are mostly headed by either individuals or are focused on certain small tasks and that being all or most of it.

Heck, if the community project in Game Maker is somewhat successful then there would be a list of resources able to be easily used by those creating a game in an advanced language and most of the psuedo-code would be done in Game Maker already. But yeah, a community project has to be something that is at most people's level.

The resource list which would be maintained in the Graphics section of the forum would have more than just Minish Cap in it so long as whatever else was ripped well and was useful - i.e. if there are good LTTP rips that are useful to developers, they will be included (priority given to workable tilesets and animated object images).
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 06:59:06 am
It's not that I dislike "advanced" programming languages. In fact, I love C++ and in my recent boredom I have been trying to write a sprite system that stores and reads graphics in a similar style to how it would be on a GBA/DS - in terms of avoiding image redundancy in different but similar sprites when possible. It is like that for most "advanced" type projects here - in that they are mostly headed by either individuals or are focused on certain small tasks and that being all or most of it.

Heck, if the community project in Game Maker is somewhat successful then there would be a list of resources able to be easily used by those creating a game in an advanced language and most of the psuedo-code would be done in Game Maker already. But yeah, a community project has to be something that is at most people's level.
I agree with you right there. ZFGCSDK was pretty much the iteration of the community project if it started off with a more advanced language >_< and failed miserably. But yeah, there are too many people here who are dependent on GameMaker which is fine.

Quote
The resource list which would be maintained in the Graphics section of the forum would have more than just Minish Cap in it so long as whatever else was ripped well and was useful - i.e. if there are good LTTP rips that are useful to developers, they will be included (priority given to workable tilesets and animated object images).
Well, that all sounds good. The only problem now is who would maintain the project. I think Infin is up for the job. Then, someone should maintain graphics section, etc.. It's like anyone can contribute to the project, but there would be someone who just see's through completion and sets the base template for everyone. >_< I love how there's a sudden emphasis on this, though. :D
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Zaeranos on March 10, 2009, 08:18:21 am
Since I joined Ive had an interest in the Community Projects. The problem I see with the current project is that no one is making a decision. It is more a lot of discussion in many threads and nothing is done. With a community project you would also like to give newbies a chance to contribute as veterans move on to other stuff. If you have to work through all those threads you would think twice before contributing. I also noticed that everyone jumped at making the contents of the game, before they even know what the concept is. This results in people doing a lot of useless work. Also I've looked anything concerning programming was available, but that isn't the case. So my advice will be the following:
1) Have a captain (and maybe officers) to steer the ship.
2) Have some facility to share resources, like graphics, audio and programming.
3) Have a place that contains all the information about the game and to-do lists the game. The information will also be the GDD of the game. To prevent that every one jumps onto assets and programming, you might want to let the captain and officers make a beginning GDD with the most basic stuff. You also perhaps want to add some technical info about how big tiles are, and how many tiles Link passes when he jumps of the cliff. Or how the state machines (if your using state machines) of Link and the story work. The buttons used.
From the starter concept the community can discuss everything, but once the captains says it is set, no discussion is possible anymore.
4) Site staff back up would be nice.

For a community project you don't need to remake an existing Zelda game, but you could do a homebrew story as well. You could even revive the current one. You do need to set some basics at the start, like how the engine will be build, the graphic style and so on. This has to be found on the information page and best be decided by the captains.

4Sword. It could be me, but from your replies it seems as if you want to constrict every fan game to MC style and only use the stuff that can be ripped from the game. Sometimes it is necessary to create some custom stuff and let the captains decide to use it in the assets list. You also might one day decide to do a community game in 3D or make an new graphics style. But to put everything in a topic on the forum might not be the best idea. Because from my own experience when I have to find something in 20 pages topic, I already lose much motivation, to search through useless replies. Also because you have to read the entire bloody history of how a thing is developed, while you just want the thing.

Those are my thoughts. Niek Hoeijmakers signing off!

PS: what ever happend to the current one (King of Thieves), if it is dead I would like to see if I can brew a decent concept for it, which might bring it back on track again. That is if someone were to give me some of the latest info on the game.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Infinitus on March 10, 2009, 11:11:28 am
Personally I think you need to go for something that actually draws people in instantly. A generic zelda fan game of some sort or another requires the user to read the story and see where the game is heading for people to even get intresting. Doing something like "Zelda Online", "OOT2D", etc, etc, gives people an automatic reaction that they want to see it and be a part of it.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 04:52:25 pm
Niek:

A community project should be something that the community can work on, be interested in, and get benefits back from. The previous community project failed on at least one or two of those conditions and has now been demoted to a team project - however, the likelihood is that it will be moved to the Archive as there has not been work on it in a while.

I do not like speaking ill of the dead though, so I will just elaborate on what the new project would do better. Because the game part of the community project would be a remake, the first thing to do after getting a basic engine together would be to start making what was at the beginning of the game and then onward. Other areas could be worked on in advance because the areas of the game would already be defined. Other objects such as enemies and NPCs could be worked on because the engine would be separate from the game - those working mostly on the game would not be too distracted with what they could work on next.

As for my insistence on the Minish Cap style, it is the best style to use on the project for a number of reasons. This is mostly because it is modern and would be something that would be the most interesting to do the game with. I am not saying that the game has to be entirely done with rips. I am recognizing though the more customs a game has, the slower its development is. But really, the Minish Cap style already has good customs, edits, characters remade from previous Zelda games, and rips. I am not saying that all community projects should be Minish Cap style and done with Game Maker, just that this one should be so it is easy enough to do.

Infini:

Exactly.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 05:09:57 pm

4Sword. It could be me, but from your replies it seems as if you want to constrict every fan game to MC style and only use the stuff that can be ripped from the game.
Minish Cap itself is a great art style to use. It's more modern that ALTTP. I respect 4swords decision on the Minish Cap style.

Quote
PS: what ever happend to the current one (King of Thieves), if it is dead I would like to see if I can brew a decent concept for it, which might bring it back on track again. That is if someone were to give me some of the latest info on the game.
Er... As you can see, the community project is still just an idea. >_<;;


So, how will everyone keep their engines up to date? SVN? Checking a topic? :S.. Or some other method that's similar to SVN, perhaps? I dunno since it's being done in GM, SVN isn't really necessary as its just one big file.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: sjegtp on March 10, 2009, 05:43:45 pm
Just one thing... I think it would be better to have 3 community projects: one engine, one Zelda game and one Indie game.
I remember 2 years ago there were people who didn't want to work on the community project because it was a Zelda game, and not an "original" game.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 10, 2009, 06:32:40 pm
No, having three community projects after the addition of the Indie game would not work. Having contests for it would draw time and attention away from the Zelda community project and the game would mostly be worked on by a minority of active forum users. It is not something that most of the community could take part in.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 10, 2009, 09:24:35 pm
Quote
So, how will everyone keep their engines up to date?

Assign parts of the engine to be completed by each person working on it.  When each of them  is done, bring them all together into one gm file.  Then reassign more parts, rinse and repeat.  This way no one will have to worry about not having the most up to date version. 
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 09:38:45 pm
Quote
So, how will everyone keep their engines up to date?

Assign parts of the engine to be completed by each person working on it.  When each of them  is done, bring them all together into one gm file.  Then reassign more parts, rinse and repeat.  This way no one will have to worry about not having the most up to date version. 

Needs a rating system, perhaps? Everyone rates eachother's stuff until there's nothing left to fix up.

So it seems what we've established so far...

-Game Maker
-Engine part, game part
-Resource gathering
-Separate topics for info and data. (Forum revision? Add subforums?)
-"Community Staff" to maintain order of operations

If there's anything else that needs discussing, I'm all open. On the resource gathering though, there is one major part and one minor part. The major part is the graphics. I agree with 4Sword on doing MC style, but I think also that it be good to work with a new style after that. This way, the can continue building engines and resources for all styles.

The minor part of the resources is the audio. Easily done, for many sites out there have plenty of sound effects from the other games. But the true gathering here is going to be mixing the audio for a certain game to fit the style that the game is being redone to.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 10, 2009, 10:12:02 pm
With the music, specifically Minish Cap-styled music, in many cases it will be as simple as creating a comparable midi to the original music and sticking a Minish Cap soundfont on top, then tweaking to get the final product.

That's not to say creating music is an easy task by any means, but similarly to reusing MC graphics or creating new graphics in the style, we have a musical style to start with and the ability to retool old music and make new music as is necessary.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 10, 2009, 11:12:16 pm
Quote
So, how will everyone keep their engines up to date?

Assign parts of the engine to be completed by each person working on it.  When each of them  is done, bring them all together into one gm file.  Then reassign more parts, rinse and repeat.  This way no one will have to worry about not having the most up to date version. 

Needs a rating system, perhaps? Everyone rates eachother's stuff until there's nothing left to fix up.



This is what the maintainers are for. I'd say Infin, but I don't think he wants to be managing GML(I don't blame him, either). It's up to debate who'd manage.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 11:13:41 pm
Or people could, you know, volunteer.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Smooth on March 10, 2009, 11:34:37 pm
Not to be someone who jumps in a project when i just joined the forum, but i have to ask, why programm this in game maker, i mean it exist alot better platforms to make a game in.

just asking, not trying to jump anyone or something
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 10, 2009, 11:39:02 pm
Because Game Maker is a program almost everyone here has been using the last five or six years, maybe longer.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Smooth on March 10, 2009, 11:40:16 pm
Because Game Maker is a program almost everyone here has been using the last five or six years, maybe longer.
alright, its not the best program to spend 5 6 years in, but hey thats just me
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 11, 2009, 12:18:40 am
Or people could, you know, volunteer.

It's up to debate who'd manage.
>____________________>;;..... Or people could, you know, read.

Because Game Maker is a program almost everyone here has been using the last five or six years, maybe longer.
alright, its not the best program to spend 5 6 years in, but hey thats just me
^^ I agree.

Quote
So, how will everyone keep their engines up to date?

Assign parts of the engine to be completed by each person working on it.  When each of them  is done, bring them all together into one gm file.  Then reassign more parts, rinse and repeat.  This way no one will have to worry about not having the most up to date version. 

I guess that would work. For every "milestone", a "full source" build can be made.

So.. I guess now all that's left is for the staff to discuss it in the staff forums(I'm only assuming that they are) before any wheels can begin to turn?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Scooternew on March 11, 2009, 01:23:53 am
I agree with the last post.

Also, maybe what 4Sword said about it being demoted to a team project is not necessarily a bad idea. It just depends on how we want to progress with the project.

Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Pyrazor on March 11, 2009, 04:17:31 am
To be honest, I'd be surprised if you get anything but image and sound contributions from the community and maybe have a few staff or project leaders working on the engine even with the open source aspect.

You might call it pessimistic but most people are already working on their own game and would likely have little to no interest in just jumping on this unless the commitment was very low and the return was reasonable.

The fact that Game Maker is horrible handling different versions of a game doesn't help the least bit either. 
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 04:59:31 am
The engine part of the community project is something that could be handled easily. Most of the standardization could be handled by a few people and adding to an engine established Zelda game mechanisms would not be as difficult as inventing new ones. Also the engine part would not require that many images because it would just be an engine: gathering tiles for it would not be a heavy requirement.

The game part of it would be interesting enough. Working on this would not be that difficult either since the game would most likely be a remake using the engine from the other part of the community project. It doesn't ask anyone to go above and beyond and a lot of people could easily work towards a goal because the goals themselves would be able to be defined. This community project idea is very simplified compared to other ideas.

And it is easy to criticize Game Maker but it is still what most people know here. I am not sure of what you mean by different versions of a game, but it seems like you are blowing that out of proportion. Otherwise it is snooty to condemn something without altering a better alternative.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Wasabi on March 11, 2009, 05:15:49 am
With the music, specifically Minish Cap-styled music, in many cases it will be as simple as creating a comparable midi to the original music and sticking a Minish Cap soundfont on top, then tweaking to get the final product.

That's not to say creating music is an easy task by any means, but similarly to reusing MC graphics or creating new graphics in the style, we have a musical style to start with and the ability to retool old music and make new music as is necessary.
I decompiled the MC rom ages ago and found almost all the sounds in it, including the instruments. If I can dig it up I'll turn it into a soundfont.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Pyrazor on March 11, 2009, 05:50:38 am
And it is easy to criticize Game Maker but it is still what most people know here. I am not sure of what you mean by different versions of a game, but it seems like you are blowing that out of proportion. Otherwise it is snooty to condemn something without altering a better alternative.

For example, you are working on a Bow for the engine and I am working on Bombs.  We both finish what we set out to accomplish but then we have to put it all together and update the engine source.  This can become cumbersome when trying to merge and can cause issues as you can have multiple people working on different features that potentially can end up interfering with each other and having no real way to manage it.

In terms of industry, Game Maker is really only used for prototyping and for good reason.  It is quick and simple for the purpose of a technical demonstration but is not particularly durable enough to support a large team or open source project for a diverse engine.  Really Game Maker is more akin to a scripting tool then actual programming.

I'm not saying Game Maker is necessarily bad.  I'm saying it's not suited to or designed with large projects, let alone large open-source projects, in mind hence why I feel there will be problems in both maintaining the engine and getting people to contribute. 

Is there an alternative?  Not really because the large majority of the user base doesn't have the experience to use more flexible programming languages that you can use version control software with like XNA or just straight up C++.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 12:47:33 pm
As much as Pyrazor is right, there is no alternative. I've seen a lot of the same thing being said over and over, and I think it's about time to wrap up this particular discussion and start on the stuff we're going to do. The last thing we need to do before we end this one though is how multiple people will work on the engine, brought up by Pyrazor's point.

So far, it seems we're making a MC engine and remaking Seasons and Ages in MC style. Why both? They go hand in hand. Can't have one without the other. Well, you can, but it wouldn't be as good because a lot of the game revolved around passwords.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Zaeranos on March 11, 2009, 06:49:57 pm
Who decided on Seasons and Ages? Or am I getting the wrong impression. That password system will be like hell. I would rather do a 2d version of The Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass. But we shall see what will arise.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 11, 2009, 07:10:54 pm
Wait wait..Jeod, when the hell did we decide on Seasons and Ages?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 11, 2009, 07:16:11 pm
The only thing close to the Oracle of Seasons is Hoffy's remapping of it, which I personally talked him and he said he's only doing it for the fun of it since he enjoys mapping. But that's NOWHERE close to the community project. Nobody in this topic or the other topic mentioned us redoing OoS. It's a good idea, but you posted it as if you were the one making decisions here. Only the staff right now can decide what's going to happen with this.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 07:37:04 pm
No, no...4Sword mentioned it before stating that remaking a game would be a good idea. I took Link's Awakening already, and I believe he had a reason for wanting to work with gameboy Zeldas.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 07:45:20 pm
I was just giving examples of what would be easy to remake in the Minish Cap style. Some of the characters found in the Oracle games (e.g. Nayru and Din) can be found in the Minish Cap. Otherwise, Wind Waker and the Minish Cap are also somewhat similar so Wind Maker might be a possibility - Faceless has some nice custom item images made and .TakaM at one point had made the King of the Red Lions.

I am just speaking the obvious really, if you do a Zelda game that is too early in the series, the remakes will look empty and there won't be that much to work with. If you go too late, remaking it might be difficult. I could have also mentioned Ocarina of Time, but remaking that would get grobbled at, and Majora's Mask may have been too difficult with all the transformations and non-repeated characters that don't appear in the Minish Cap.

I have not fully insisted on doing the Oracle games though. The game is something that will be decided by what the most people are comfortable with doing.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 07:47:44 pm
I can think of quite a few from MM that appear in MC. The carpenters, the Deku Scrubs, Malon...
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 07:52:02 pm
Meh, whatever, I was thinking it over quickly - I haven't played it in a while.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Zaeranos on March 11, 2009, 08:48:53 pm
Maybe a poll could be usefull to see what the community is interested in. If so I nominate The Wind Waker.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Xfixium on March 11, 2009, 08:57:53 pm
I agree with the whole poll idea, some of these games I have never played.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Infinitus on March 11, 2009, 09:31:26 pm
Alrighty. I'll add a poll. Feel free to post suggests to add to the poll.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 11, 2009, 09:42:37 pm
WW would be fantastic, but the sea would be too empty in 2D, except for the places where it would be crowded (I'm thinking of the Peahats near the Boating Course).  Also, a lot of aspects of WW rely extensively on 3D, much more so than the 64 games.  Right in the beginning of the game, you have to look around with the Telescope to see the giant bird.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Zaeranos on March 11, 2009, 09:48:52 pm
I thought it was going to be a remake of an existing Zelda game. But this poll can do also.

Nabeshin: some of the obligatory telescope action can be done with the background and sprite animation. The other telescope actions are more troublesome, but creativity is also an aspect to obtain experience in. Other 3d action can also be worked around.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 09:56:52 pm
I think that if it were Wind Waker the telescope could be done through a view effect. Essentially you would only be able to "see" further than your current view in just a conical region.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 10:07:34 pm
I'm open to assist with anything that's chosen. However, if I had to weigh the options, here's what my report would look like:

Ocarina of Time 2D
Already in the works, and looking good.

Majora's Mask 2D
This game would be ok to make as long as we plan well enough for it. It would be easy to recreate the world in MC style, with some obvious edits concering velocity and 3D aspects.

Wind Waker 2D
This would be very hard to do, since a lot of the game was made for a 3D environment. Also, in 2D, it would look very bland. Think of the great sea. Most of the map would be just water.

Oracle of Seasons and Ages
This is another fairly simple option. The only difficult parts would be the password system and ring system. The password system might be able to be substituted by just making the two Game Maker exe files "read" from eachother.

Thematic Engine
By far the easiest thing to do, but it might get boring if there wasn't a game to go with it.

Original Game
This would be difficult to set up and work on properly unless everyone can cooperate, but it would give more freedom of development. I'm okay with this as long as the story doesn't go out of proportion.

Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 11, 2009, 10:15:14 pm
I'm thinking of some good 3D workarounds for WW, but flying as a seagull strikes me as something that would be hard to accomplish.

If we do a 3D remake, my vote is for MM, but Pinnacle Rock comes to mind, which would be very difficult perspectively.  Also, several bosses need you to look or shoot at the ceiling of a room.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 10:29:13 pm
I guess you are right about that, there are 3D obstacles that might be a little challenging to translate into 2D - it is not that bad though once you think about the transition from a 2D perspective in way that you aren't trying to directly copy the functionality over. But yeah, Dragonroost island might be a little odd since you wouldn't be able to go around it; it would have to be laid/spread out horizontally and a little bit vertically.

If one wants to avoid any of those challenges though if they are not up to it, revamping one of the Gameboy games would be the easiest thing to do.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 10:31:16 pm
That or an original concept. MM is still open to me though. I don't think it would be that hard to do. Definitely easier than WW.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Mamoruanime on March 11, 2009, 10:39:16 pm
Honestly, I think the only real appropriate "community project" would be an SDK, or some kind of Zelda GM thats open ended enough to let users code their own !@#$%... Otherwise I don't really see a CP being successful :(
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 10:41:19 pm
Personally, I think that we should stay clear of an original concept because then the project would run into issues like plot, story line, etc. If it were just a revamp, all of that would be avoided. Original type games tend to introduce new mechanisms which would not be used primarily in the engine part of the community project while doing a revamp would contain many of the mechanisms in the engine.

Also, in my opinion, having it an open source Game Maker revamp is the easiest thing to do and thus it has the largest chance of being successful.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Mamoruanime on March 11, 2009, 10:42:57 pm
Personally, I think that we should stay clear of an original concept because then the project would run into issues like plot, story line, etc. If it were just a revamp, all of that would be avoided. Original type games tend to introduce new mechanisms which would not be used primarily in the engine part of the community project while doing a revamp would contain many of the mechanisms in the engine.

It also requires someone capable enough to make a *proper* engine :p A lot of people just code things as needed, instead of planning ahead and properly developing their source :P
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 10:44:12 pm
Yay for staff involvement!
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 11, 2009, 10:48:18 pm
If the game were a revamp it would be developed based on how one would normally progress through the game. This gives time for the engine to catch up and plan ahead.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Xfixium on March 11, 2009, 10:48:27 pm
Personally, I think that we should stay clear of an original concept because then the project would run into issues like plot, story line, etc. If it were just a revamp, all of that would be avoided. Original type games tend to introduce new mechanisms which would not be used primarily in the engine part of the community project while doing a revamp would contain many of the mechanisms in the engine.

Also, in my opinion, having it an open source Game Maker revamp is the easiest thing to do and thus it has the largest chance of being successful.

^This^

It seems the most practical. It may not tap into the whole creativity of the community as much as an original project, but hell it'd be the easiest to get done. Maybe having some success can lead to more complex development such as an SDK. You know, after we beat ourselves about the head a bazillion times.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 11, 2009, 10:48:52 pm
For Dragon Roost, the view would simply move with Link as he moves around the side of the mountain, making it into more of a 2D sidescroller.  I'm thinking Butter Building in Kirby's Adventure, sort of (if you know what I mean).

The Gameboy games are simple though, and I think MM is also workable.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: SlimmyG on March 11, 2009, 10:49:22 pm
Id like to see either WW or MM remade in 2d. Out of the two I think MM would be easier but ill admit I haven't spent much time considering it. However if we go to make a original concept I'm more then happy to help think of plot lines or side quests or anything like that, so I'm open to an original one too.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Mamoruanime on March 11, 2009, 10:58:28 pm
Id like to see either WW or MM remade in 2d. Out of the two I think MM would be easier but ill admit I haven't spent much time considering it. However if we go to make a original concept I'm more then happy to help think of plot lines or side quests or anything like that, so I'm open to an original one too.

But at the same time, it's easier just to make an engine behind those games, since it's all practically the same.

It's bad to look at it in terms of "remaking MM" instead of "making a 2d version of the 3d Zelda Engine", since you can pretty much make OoT, MM, and WW with the same engine.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 11, 2009, 11:43:00 pm
Se, we narrow it down to Majora's Mask or the Oracle games? I can definitely help with either of them.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 12, 2009, 12:11:40 am
Id like to see either WW or MM remade in 2d. Out of the two I think MM would be easier but ill admit I haven't spent much time considering it. However if we go to make a original concept I'm more then happy to help think of plot lines or side quests or anything like that, so I'm open to an original one too.

But at the same time, it's easier just to make an engine behind those games, since it's all practically the same.

It's bad to look at it in terms of "remaking MM" instead of "making a 2d version of the 3d Zelda Engine", since you can pretty much make OoT, MM, and WW with the same engine.
A generalized engine is indeed, the best decision. If anyone would like to "remake" previous games, they can easily do so by using ZFGC's premade engine. As for a more advanced language, I don't think that would be successful because of the lack of people who are willing to develop in those fields.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Pyrazor on March 12, 2009, 12:24:21 am
A general engine is a good idea but Game Maker certainly is going to make exceedingly difficult and agitating to combine code and very few people have the ability to work in actual languages.  It's a real catch 22.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Kren on March 12, 2009, 12:51:29 am
hmm why not use the last community project resources? I mean we have the storyline, we have part of the sprites, and we have part of the sounds, we just need someone to decide everything of what is in and what is out, if one people do this job and decide the storyline the items and the map then I think we will have a mayor advantage. but however you want.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 12, 2009, 12:52:09 am
Game Maker certainly is going to make exceedingly difficult and agitating to combine code and very few people have the ability to work in actual languages.  It's a real catch 22.
That's the argument I had earlier, but you aren't going to stop cry babies and people who think they own the project >___>.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 12, 2009, 02:29:46 am
Who are you accusing Basniak? This entire topic has been about how the project will work out, and that is one of the issues I stressed was important, thereby agreeing with you. But the thing I've been getting from this discussion is that the team needs planning. Who will work on what? How will we piece it all together? Those are the main points that need to be answered.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: legendarylugi on March 12, 2009, 02:36:37 am
I agree that it should be narrowed down to MM or the Oracle Games. Although I think it would work better if they were slightly modified, rather than just a 2D or MC carbon copy of the game being revamped. That's just me though. There needs to be a bit of "new" flavor, even if it's just one or 2 minor additions to the Bombers Notebook (MM), or a few extra rings and a slightly larger role for Farore(Oracles).

I'll probably be more useful this time around than last time, since I've gone from being a GM noob who couldn't help with programming at all to a somewhat novice GML user who may be able to contribute something decent.  :)

And I promise not to derail conversations with wild, unfeasable ideas this time.  :P
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Pyrazor on March 12, 2009, 02:45:38 am
So my question, is since there basically is no alternative to Game Maker, is how do you plan to handle maintaining one up to date Game Maker source file?

Consider that you'll have multiple people working on different features in their own style.  How would you keep track of who's doing what?  How would you combine the various components into one file effectively? 

You guys understand what you want to do but how do you plan to actually go about it and keep it organized, efficient, and functional? 

Before you decide on what the game should be about, first figure out how you're going to make this engine in gory detail.  It doesn't particularly matter what the game is about, so long as the engine base is both good and stable then you should be able to expand upon it with the needed features for a specific game. 

Keep in mind I'm not saying write the whole thing then decide the game.  I'm saying know exactly how you will plan to write it as a community and then decide the game. 
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 12, 2009, 02:48:30 am
"Up-to-date" in Game Maker? Is there such a thing? The GML will always be different depending on what it's for and who programmed it. Perhaps it would be best if we made a curriculum? You know, a set of standards that each engine and each part has to meet to be accepted? That would probably ensure some organization and ability to combine all the features.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 12, 2009, 02:54:35 am
"Up-to-date" in Game Maker? Is there such a thing? The GML will always be different depending on what it's for and who programmed it. Perhaps it would be best if we made a curriculum? You know, a set of standards that each engine and each part has to meet to be accepted? That would probably ensure some organization and ability to combine all the features.

That shouldn't be any different for any language.  Give 10 programmers the same thing to make in C++ and you'll get 10 different interpretations of it.  Document a set of standards similar to what Infini did for the ZFGSDK and include this in a design doc.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 12, 2009, 02:55:48 am
Who are you accusing Basniak? This entire topic has been about how the project will work out, and that is one of the issues I stressed was important, thereby agreeing with you. But the thing I've been getting from this discussion is that the team needs planning. Who will work on what? How will we piece it all together? Those are the main points that need to be answered.
Yeah, and the staff will be the ones who carry that out because they already know what needs to be done. There's no need for a random member to go making assumptions on certain decisions and misleading some people.
"Up-to-date" in Game Maker? Is there such a thing? The GML will always be different depending on what it's for and who programmed it. Perhaps it would be best if we made a curriculum? You know, a set of standards that each engine and each part has to meet to be accepted? That would probably ensure some organization and ability to combine all the features.
Make a design template and that'll solve the problem. Whomever maintains the programming part of the Community Project will be the one who decides the "standards". Pyrazor has a point that it will be difficult to keep up to date. You don't really get the convenience of having everything spread out to where it's not all contained in one file.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Mamoruanime on March 12, 2009, 03:04:26 am
A general engine is a good idea but Game Maker certainly is going to make exceedingly difficult and agitating to combine code and very few people have the ability to work in actual languages.  It's a real catch 22.

That's why this project should stay miles away from GM :P

If a decent engine were made in C++ or C# with a user-friendly front-end, it'd be far more practical
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Pyrazor on March 12, 2009, 03:13:24 am
Yeah but then the problem there is who would make it?  It's definitely too much work for a single person so that should be tossed out the window straight away.  If you can find a group of people who can competently code, are willing, and can all work in the same language then I'd say go for it but the odds of that are slim to none.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 12, 2009, 03:14:27 am
I have to agree with mammy.  There's quite a few of us here that can work with a C-bases language, so I don't see too much of a problem.  Infini, Myself, Mammy, Minalien, SJeptp I believe does as well...
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Mamoruanime on March 12, 2009, 03:14:44 am
Yeah but then the problem there is who would make it?  It's definitely too much work for a single person so that should be tossed out the window straight away.  If you can find a group of people who can competently code, are willing, and can all work in the same language then I'd say go for it but the odds of that are slim to none.

Yeah, that's the downfall :( especially here :(
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 12, 2009, 03:40:18 am
I do not really think that the combining of code is going to present as much of an issue as some of you are making it out to be. The engine is not going to be a clumping hodgepodge amalgamation of many other engines. The hardest part about the combinations is that compared to something like C++ you can't just add files to the project.

I do not know the full details now, I would have to figure it out as I go. There could probably be a "release" file which has what is considered stable for the time being. There would be a topic about Link and his abilities/reactions. This would get edited the most as Link has the most abilities in the whole game. As for adding monsters, there would be something that all monsters have in common - life, what to do if that life is over, handling collision events with Link's weapon, what to do if it collides with Link, etc. Once there is a default monster "class" all future monsters can derive from that class - this allows them to define all their own unique stuff but saves on coding.

To add a monster to the engine, one would modify the last stable release file so that it fit with the monster base object and so that they could test it with the Link object. Once they thought they had something usable, they would delete anything that was in their copy of the stable release and then submit it as a GMK file. Others could add it in to their projects and test it out and possibly work on it.

If that is too complicated people can just submit their GMK files which would not involve getting rid of all that was not in the base. If others like it and they can get it compliant, it can be coded into the standard release.


But really, you guys are missing the point. A community project is something that anyone can help out on and you are rushing to put it in C++ or something else which immediately limits it. MG-Zero, Minalien isn't here and Mamoruanime isn't going to be here as much. Infini also works on other things. You don't have enough support to handle it in C++ even if you wanted to.

Game Maker works, most people know it, there exists a wealth of knowledge on the forum so it is not like there is something that is going to completely stump anyone, etc. Of course it is too much work for one person, but there isn't going to be one person - it's open source. It is the best choice.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Wasabi on March 12, 2009, 05:46:36 am
If a basic engine in gamemaker is made, it could load everything from external files. That way people could make 'modules' with code files, graphics etc that could just be added to a load order file, which could also be set to add to/overwrite any existing code/graphics/sounds etc in the game. That way people can add new code to the basic engine without actually modifying the basic engine. Obviously the downfalls of this is even the stupidest people could edit any of the resources without decompiling the game.
If I can remember what I'm doing with external files I might knock up an example of what I mean.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Deku_stick on March 12, 2009, 07:43:41 am
If the game will be 3d I would say use C++ if the game will be 2D game maker will be a good option
and I think a MM remake wouldt be awesome :)
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 12, 2009, 09:50:53 am
If the game will be 3d I would say use C++ if the game will be 2D game maker will be a good option
and I think a MM remake wouldt be awesome :)
I don't see the possibility of 3D even being considered as the community skill level in game development isn't necessarily up to par for something like that. Hell, more than half of this community fails to do 2D projects.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 12, 2009, 12:41:01 pm
Agreed, C++ is not a good thing for a community project right now. I'll just say what 4Sword said and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Deku_stick on March 12, 2009, 02:32:14 pm
so.. basicly someone needs to cut the crap and stand up as a leader?

get one overall leader then get artderection , code and story leaders whom are dedicated....
and the project may work....
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 12, 2009, 02:38:41 pm
Ok, seeing as nobody else wants to "cut the crap", I think I will. This topic's been turning into argument over whether or not to use Game Maker or a "more advanced" program. The argument will likely spill over to other matters, and nothing will get done. So here's what's going to happen if things go smoothly.

-Game Maker
-Standard template that engines must meet
-Redesign of Majora's Mask, Ages, or Seasons.
-Community Staff consisting of the site staff, and lesser staff made up of leaders of Graphics, Music, Story, and Programming.

I'm sorry, Mammy, but even though a few people can do C++, most of them don't have the time for as community project.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 12, 2009, 05:25:49 pm
My vote goes for an ages and seasons remake, I think those two will go over the best.  Majora's Mask seems too difficult (imagine that Stone Tower....*shudder*).  I think no matter what we do though, we'll have to add a few extra things to make it deviate a little from the original with more than just the sprite style.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Zaeranos on March 12, 2009, 07:10:58 pm
The stone tower isn't really to big a problem. You just have to place two rooms in one. To see the gaps on the ceiling, you can cast shadows on the floor and for other clues you could also make them on the floor.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 12, 2009, 10:49:04 pm
Yeah yeah, game can come later. What we need to do right now is gather all the existing MC engines and look through them to see if any are good enough to keep for the CP.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: NickAVV on March 13, 2009, 01:29:58 am
En la linea. Online games are fun, stuff like LA COOP (not that I've ever played it, but it just LOOKS fun)
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 12:15:31 am
So...what are we supposed to be doing anyway?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: 4Sword on March 14, 2009, 12:55:46 am
The setup will most likely be decided in the following days - the board layout right now is being worked out with the administration.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Scooternew on March 14, 2009, 04:28:12 am
I can say now that with the way it's going, I'll probably taking a smaller role, anyway. I disagree completely with where the CP is headed, but I'll still help, regardless. THe open-source idea doesn't sound so bad.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 04:30:45 am
How do you disagree, Scoot?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Scooternew on March 14, 2009, 04:34:00 am
How it isn't at all the original game it was planned out to be. I'm going to help, regardless, though. Just being part of a team that actually produces a game...that's what I've wanted to do for a long time.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 04:39:02 am
Well we did try reviving the original once before. It failed because nobody wanted to help with it or nobody had good enough experience. Remaking a game first would probably be best because it fills our resource database too.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 14, 2009, 04:46:48 am
Remaking a game is the best choice.  We've got a story, we've got characters, we don't have to do any of that stuff.  People know of the games already and this will attract better attention.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 02:06:53 pm
If it's for the good of the forum, I will make my Link's Awakening Remastered project an open source and an option for this community project. Xfixium's given me his data for the MC version on Game Maker, so we already have a good start. If you go along with this, I'll be grabbing some MC tilesets and mapping the place.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: MG-Zero on March 14, 2009, 04:29:29 pm
Aren't you working in MMF, though?  There's not really anyone here with any experience with it, other than you and myself (I actually worked with Games Factory back in 03, 04ish).  Unless i'm mistaken, and if so, please correct me haha.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 04:37:57 pm
Yeah but my project was LttP style, and it's not very far yet. That's why I'm offering it up. The biggest thing I can do if it's in GM though is mapping.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: sjegtp on March 14, 2009, 05:08:28 pm
BTW... we could remake a 3D zelda game (OoT, MM) in sidescroller style. It would be more difficult in terms of making sprites and the engine, but it's just an idea.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 05:09:52 pm
How would that even be possible?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: sjegtp on March 14, 2009, 05:14:44 pm
We'd need to adapt the game, it wouldn't be perfectly the original game, but it would be simmilar.
Some of the game rooms would change a lot though.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 05:16:19 pm
More like most of the game. I just had a thought on how to get everyone interested. Why not do gang wars? I'm sure everyone here wouldn't mind virtually shooting eachother to take out their anger.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Source on March 14, 2009, 05:19:42 pm
In a fashion reminiscent of ZFGC: Gang Wars (http://www.zfgc.com/index.php#?action=games&sa=view&id=44) or no? If so, I'd be all over it. If not, I think we should consider doing something like it again. IIRC, the original attracted tons of attention, and not just on ZFGC.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Porkchop on March 14, 2009, 09:46:57 pm
I'd love to see an Online game, Zelda or not.

Something like Aaron's (AoDC) old game. Even though it was pretty limited in a way, it was fun and I loved running around in it with others.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 09:58:42 pm
If we go with an online game I'd suggest gang wars or LACOOP.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Source on March 14, 2009, 10:39:18 pm
Hm, I'd say gang wars is the better of the two. Online COOP isn't my cup of tea.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Jeod on March 14, 2009, 10:41:28 pm
I was referring to Xfixium's Link's Awakening Co-op...which is actually pretty good.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Infinitus on March 14, 2009, 10:52:38 pm
I was referring to Xfixium's Link's Awakening Co-op...which is actually pretty good.
Xfixium had one? lol, didn't know that.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 14, 2009, 11:13:47 pm
I'd love to see an Online game, Zelda or not.

Something like Aaron's (AoDC) old game. Even though it was pretty limited in a way, it was fun and I loved running around in it with others.
I miss Oracle of Life :(. That project was amazing. It still has most posts in the top 10 topic statistics, hah. As for an online game I highly doubt that's going to happen >_<.

Are there still any spriters that lurk these forums?
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 14, 2009, 11:25:09 pm
Are there still any spriters that lurk these forums?
Oh hi.

Whatever we do, keep it simple.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: gm112 on March 15, 2009, 02:27:43 am
Are there still any spriters that lurk these forums?
Oh hi.

Whatever we do, keep it simple.
I think the most you'd do is add a few custom tiles to the MC tileset or something :s. Or maybe some characters, I dunno. We do have the old ZFGC sprite resource so, hm.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Nabeshin on March 15, 2009, 02:57:03 am
Ouch.

It's true I don't update my thread, but the reason's not lack of work.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Xfixium on March 15, 2009, 05:49:55 am
I was referring to Xfixium's Link's Awakening Co-op...which is actually pretty good.
Xfixium had one? lol, didn't know that.

 XD Awesome.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: Deku_stick on March 15, 2009, 12:20:13 pm


Are there still any spriters that lurk these forums?

I'm a spriter.... if someone starts something intresting I'm always willing to help.
Title: Re: Community Project Redesign
Post by: legendarylugi on March 16, 2009, 12:46:56 am
I think a remake is the most doable, and perhaps the most fun as well.

First off, there would be a lot of "debugging" that involves actually PLAYING the original to make sure things are just right. That right there is loads of fun, playing the game for "research".  XD

For instance, in MM, there is a surprising amount of detail to even minor things, like what you can do with a Gossip Stone (quite a lot, actually). It would be an excuse to explore the game more deeply, to make sure that things are just right in the remake.

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