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Author Topic: Truth is not relative!  (Read 15746 times)

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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2007, 11:36:25 pm »
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Quote from: CelestialEsper on December 19, 2007, 11:30:30 pm
Quote from: bertfallen on December 19, 2007, 07:16:55 pm


His comment about being Bias was taken from the Evolution debate. Yet its not biased, just truth. CelestialEsper, why must you continue to bring up irrelevant crap in debates? I admit I sort of started this one, but why attack Knivu by saying he cant appreciate other peoples views when he hasn't even made a single comment against other peoples views. Or is it because his view is different to yours that it automatically means he lacks the appreciation of yours?

O DEER BARAGE OF HARRASING PMS AHEAD SIR.

Did your parents not give you the attention you needed as a child? Why are you so distraught, sir? I mean honestly, wow.

And you question my age?
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2007, 11:38:11 pm »
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Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself at this point.
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ZFGC Veteran since 2004

Mamoruanime

@Mamoruanime
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2007, 11:42:08 pm »
  • ^Not actually me.
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... Stop doing this in the smart talk threads. These lil sugar-coated flamewars need to end.

One thing you guys need to consider; when someone says something that offends you, do NOT directly reply to them with an insult in debate threads. Theres a more logical and appropriate way of going about things. If it offends you, then find more proof to support your side of the debate. If you cant do that, then just don't post and ignore the thread. The beauty of the internet is... You can choose to view something, or comment on something. The pressure isn't on you to do so. If you cannot contribute to the thread in a positive, constructive way, then avoid posting in the thread at all costs please.
This is a public warning o.o... Thank you.
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2007, 11:44:54 pm »
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Quote from: Mamoruanime on December 19, 2007, 11:42:08 pm
... Stop doing this in the smart talk threads. These lil sugar-coated flamewars need to end.

One thing you guys need to consider; when someone says something that offends you, do NOT directly reply to them with an insult in debate threads. Theres a more logical and appropriate way of going about things. If it offends you, then find more proof to support your side of the debate. If you cant do that, then just don't post and ignore the thread. The beauty of the internet is... You can choose to view something, or comment on something. The pressure isn't on you to do so. If you cannot contribute to the thread in a positive, constructive way, then avoid posting in the thread at all costs please.
This is a public warning o.o... Thank you.

Its over, we sorted it through PMs. You can delete thoses posts now. And sorry about that little performance.
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #84 on: December 22, 2007, 08:00:23 pm »
  • CRUNCH! I'll add it to the heap!
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Whether the truth is relative or not is a relative tru-
Oh, snap.
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on June 25, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
And now after years of mocking him the pretending he played a massive part in our lives when really we couldn't care less just to ease our consciounse over said mocking healing can begin <_<

It's Steve Irwin all over again.
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2008, 12:41:00 am »
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The statement "truth is relative" is also relative then, because youre saying that you know something concrete about truth, that it is relative. Yet that in itself is not a relative statement. So if you want to stick to you opinion of truth being relative, then you have to acknowledge that your opinion on truth is also a relative one, meaning that it is not true. Thus if its not true, then truth must not be relative. Simple.

I know youre giving examples like "Don't leave your room" and saying its truth. But that doesn;t even relate to this topic. Truth is something like, the Air is made of oxygen and other gasses. Sure we have names for them which may be different in another country, but the fact remains the same, air is made up of those elements.

Sure we may call Red, Red, but even if we did call it blue, it would not be a different colour, it would just have a different name. So those arguments youre giving are not relevant to this topic.

What youre trying to say is for example that Murder is not ok in our culture, but in others it may be ok. But the truth is, murder is never ok, what right does someone have to take the life of another, who cares what culture you live in, each individual is still a full human being, and even if their culture permits murder, doesn't make it right.
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2008, 05:24:30 am »
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Quote from: redding on January 08, 2008, 12:41:00 am
The statement "truth is relative" is also relative then, because youre saying that you know something concrete about truth, that it is relative. Yet that in itself is not a relative statement. So if you want to stick to you opinion of truth being relative, then you have to acknowledge that your opinion on truth is also a relative one, meaning that it is not true. Thus if its not true, then truth must not be relative. Simple.

I know youre giving examples like "Don't leave your room" and saying its truth. But that doesn;t even relate to this topic. Truth is something like, the Air is made of oxygen and other gasses. Sure we have names for them which may be different in another country, but the fact remains the same, air is made up of those elements.

Sure we may call Red, Red, but even if we did call it blue, it would not be a different colour, it would just have a different name. So those arguments youre giving are not relevant to this topic.

What youre trying to say is for example that Murder is not ok in our culture, but in others it may be ok. But the truth is, murder is never ok, what right does someone have to take the life of another, who cares what culture you live in, each individual is still a full human being, and even if their culture permits murder, doesn't make it right.


Ok, first, a word of warning. Try not to sound so sure of your own rightness. Being as new as you are to ZFGC you aren't really in a position to be making so many harsh comments. You are likely to find yourself in the middle of a large flame war witch would just destroy your credibility from the start. (Just a note: I'm not trying to flame. I'm just offering some friendly advice.

Now, on to the topic at hand.

You say murder is wrong but what makes it wrong? I personally agree with you on the matter but I want to hear your reasoning.

Hypothetical speaking, if the world was destroyed and the only people who survived were you and 200 people who supported murder, would murder be ok? If not, why? What makes the truth you see any better than the truth those 200 people see. This leads us right back to, "truth is relative". Since you probably don't have any actual reason why killing is wrong than you cannot prove your truth is right. Note: Reasons such as "Because god said not to kill", "killing is just plain wrong", "people get sad when you kill people:, etc... don't count.
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Ya I'm a show off.
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2008, 05:36:29 am »
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Redding, you were a member at the old, old ZFGC, weren't you?
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ZFGC Veteran since 2004
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2008, 05:51:19 am »
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Quote from: thibledorf on January 08, 2008, 05:24:30 am
Quote from: redding on January 08, 2008, 12:41:00 am
The statement "truth is relative" is also relative then, because youre saying that you know something concrete about truth, that it is relative. Yet that in itself is not a relative statement. So if you want to stick to you opinion of truth being relative, then you have to acknowledge that your opinion on truth is also a relative one, meaning that it is not true. Thus if its not true, then truth must not be relative. Simple.

I know youre giving examples like "Don't leave your room" and saying its truth. But that doesn;t even relate to this topic. Truth is something like, the Air is made of oxygen and other gasses. Sure we have names for them which may be different in another country, but the fact remains the same, air is made up of those elements.

Sure we may call Red, Red, but even if we did call it blue, it would not be a different colour, it would just have a different name. So those arguments youre giving are not relevant to this topic.

What youre trying to say is for example that Murder is not ok in our culture, but in others it may be ok. But the truth is, murder is never ok, what right does someone have to take the life of another, who cares what culture you live in, each individual is still a full human being, and even if their culture permits murder, doesn't make it right.


Ok, first, a word of warning. Try not to sound so sure of your own rightness. Being as new as you are to ZFGC you aren't really in a position to be making so many harsh comments. You are likely to find yourself in the middle of a large flame war witch would just destroy your credibility from the start. (Just a note: I'm not trying to flame. I'm just offering some friendly advice.

Now, on to the topic at hand.

You say murder is wrong but what makes it wrong? I personally agree with you on the matter but I want to hear your reasoning.

Hypothetical speaking, if the world was destroyed and the only people who survived were you and 200 people who supported murder, would murder be ok? If not, why? What makes the truth you see any better than the truth those 200 people see. This leads us right back to, "truth is relative". Since you probably don't have any actual reason why killing is wrong than you cannot prove your truth is right. Note: Reasons such as "Because god said not to kill", "killing is just plain wrong", "people get sad when you kill people:, etc... don't count.
Well firstly CelestialEsper is right, ive been a member of ZFGC since around January 2004, but i left some time in 2006 when it changed to gamers advanced, and then merged with another website, but then came back to being zfgc.

But on to the matter of Murder, the reason I said it was wrong, was because think of it on an individual level. What right does someone else have, to take away your life? Or your friends? Or a family members? Is it not wrong for that thing to happen, despite what everyone else thinks?

Just because everyone says something is ok, doesnt make it ok. As with the example of black slaves. Just because everyone said black slavery was ok, didn't make it right. Do you think the african americans were happy and accepted being slaves? Or do you think they felt they were being treated wrongly.

Secondly, how is it not an absolute to say that truth is relative? Isn't that statement in itself claiming to be an absolute. If it were an absolute, then it would make void what it is saying, because it itself would prove truth being absolute through its very statement.
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2008, 10:17:55 pm »
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First, I extend my apologies for my warning. I wasn't aware of your long lasting interest in ZFGC. I was merely trying to be helpful. I suppose I look foolish now. XD I hope we can put that misunderstanding behind us.

On to the topic at hand!

You still haven't answered my question. What defines something as right? Who decides what is right and what is wrong? If all people agreed that killing is ok, would killing still be wrong?

To refraise my point, what is it for something to be ok? How do you define ok?

You're right that saying, "truth is relative" is an absolute. I think what would make more sense would be to say, "some truths are relative"
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Ya I'm a show off.
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2008, 11:57:11 pm »
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Quote from: thibledorf on January 08, 2008, 10:17:55 pm
First, I extend my apologies for my warning. I wasn't aware of your long lasting interest in ZFGC. I was merely trying to be helpful. I suppose I look foolish now. XD I hope we can put that misunderstanding behind us.

On to the topic at hand!

You still haven't answered my question. What defines something as right? Who decides what is right and what is wrong? If all people agreed that killing is ok, would killing still be wrong?

To refraise my point, what is it for something to be ok? How do you define ok?

You're right that saying, "truth is relative" is an absolute. I think what would make more sense would be to say, "some truths are relative"
Nah no worries about it, i havent really been around for the last 2 years anyway so i wasnt offedned in any way.

I think im on with the last part you say "Some truths are relative" that seems more correct. Although I wouldnt call those them truths, id have another name for them.

Ultimately I would have to say that God is the reason why truth is absolute, that he sets the perfect moral standard, and I guess to those who don't believe in him, then according to their ideological view of life they could call truth relative. However I would disagree with their viewpoint because there are things like theft, murder etc.. that should never be supported, and only result in corrupt governments.
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2008, 06:55:08 pm »
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Quote
I would have to say that God is the reason why truth is absolute, that he sets the perfect moral standard

Was about to say that... Dang it, beat me to it.

I think that a world without moral absolutes is destined to absolute chaos.
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ZFGC Veteran since 2004
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2008, 11:17:40 pm »
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I'm glad you weren't offended. I'd hate to offend someone I'd just met XD I'd also hate to offend someone I had met many times.

I guess you're right about those relative truths not really being truths, but something else all together.

Anyways, I think we've come as close to an agreement as were going to get, so there's not really much point in you and I discussing this further.
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Ya I'm a show off.
Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2008, 07:13:14 pm »
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Wait, the world isn't already in constant chaos? When did this happen?
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Re: Truth is not relative!
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2008, 12:17:22 am »
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Quote from: TheDarkJay on January 10, 2008, 07:13:14 pm
Wait, the world isn't already in constant chaos? When did this happen?

Wait, the whole world agrees on moral absolutes? Didn't think so.
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ZFGC Veteran since 2004
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