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[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

That is just stupid. It's like saying why should you put a water dispenser in an office for an employee, they're going to work there anyway. But the employee deserves to be able to get a drink, whether it increases their activity or not. You're gaining from the employee working so why shouldn't you gain a little less and have happy employees?

Do you really want to have torturing animals on your conscience? Why do you think people buy free range eggs? It's because the chickens are allowed freedom instead of being kept in a cage the whole time. Energy is lost through the chicken's activity but we still buy free range eggs because we don't believe that anyone should be tortured.

Any animal is living just like you, yet you'll torture them for your own gain. Imagine if you were a chicken, being force-fed alarmingly large amounts of food. Stuffed up, "processed", then murdered. Don't treat others differently than how you want to be treated yourself. Otherwise that makes you a hypocrite.

XFD, did you just recite  the do unto others religious thing for a chicken? Lol wow, dude, it's a god damn chicken. I wouldn't have torturing animals on my consious, because i didn't torture them, i'm just eating them. So ha. Eggs are good, but chicken is better. The're tasty, the're good. The're being put to good use, filling me up.

Imagine if i was a chicken? Yeah sure, hmm i'm a chicken, i have nothing to do in life but walk around for years until i die. If i roam around free then i will be killed by a coyote anyway.

Hmm, being killed by a coyote, being killed and sold to people. Not alot of difference except the whole torture thing. And stop eating meat wouldn't stop their torture. They will still be killed for food anyway. So again, ha.

So while your going and praying for chicken little, i'll be enjoying some good old chicken wings.

[Tabby]

Tabby

Re: :(

Unnecessary to involve religion into this, FISSURE, obviously you don't see what's really
fair and not fair here. You're even comparing animals and telling us that they don't have
the same rights. How can you say that they don't deserve to get what they deserve?? Cause you are... :S

[Fox]

Fox

Re: :(

I actually do not care about this.

Sol edit: Then stay away from this serious topic instead of tarnishing it with your ignorance.

Sol, it's seriously HIS opinion. And it was a statement, thus it was worth being posted here. It has nothing to do with ignorance. I doubt he meant "I don't care about the topic" but rather "I don't care about the current treatings of animals".

*Breathes deep.*

Here we go. Consciousness was a stupid thing to evolve. Other than us, animals don't have consciousness, thus they don't... well, they probably feel pain, but they... don't get psycho about it or anything. They get probably paranoid, and I probably don't know eveything about the tortures (my apologies then), but I think that
a) It's the way it is and we - WE - are faaaaar away from the power to change it
and
b) There are things that happen, and eating meat is necessary. Seriously. Go ahead and tell me that there are ways to replace the things in meat, but it ain't the same.

Of course, I get sick too, seeing single parts of animals body etc, but hell - I have it on my bread every evening! I can't change it. I do feel sorry for these animals in a way, but I can't help it. There are things we may not chance. I also don't think we should try hard changing it. It won't change, it simply won't.

Then again, it's ironic how I feel offended by the line "Human dignity is inviolable". I'm such a crazy one. (I really feel offended by the line.)

• 

[Limey]

Limey

Re: :(

I dont give a !@#$%.  To me, they're lesser animals, thats it.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: :(

At least nobody here knows about the Asian fur trade.  I cannot find the video, but in it, a dog is chained to a fence while his fur is starting to be cut off of his back leg.  The dog remains fully conscious until after losing his skin, and the whole time he is chained to a fence, in a freezing winter, all while bleeding profusely.  Then there is the cat fur trade that works the same way.  They have to kill it live so the fur will not be ruined.  They store up to twenty cats in a small cage and fetch then out with a nuice-like device.  Sad really, the cats are surrounded by the hides of the former cats that died.  You would think that these peasants who cruelly maim these cats would at least eat them, but no, instead they through them into a pile in the snow, and like the dogs, some of them are still alive.

The point is, inflicting pain on an animal or any form of life is wrong.  To know that what you are hurting is being hurt by you and continuing on is bad.  That does not mean that people all have to go vegetarian or vegan, it just means that they have to seek out products that are cruelty-free, like Sol said. 

Now, if either PETA made a food label that showed products that were cruelty-free, or KFC starts to genetically modify chickens to make them so they cannot feel pain, that is the day I wait for.

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

You fail to understand anything except humour FISSURE.

For starters I'm NOT RELIGOUS, I'm an ATHIEST. I don't believe in god at all and I didn't make any references to anything of the sort. The problem is you don't understand why it's wrong so I think it will be near impossible to explain it you. In the end all I can do is pity your education.

Anyway, I'm off to lunch now so I'll deal with any replies when I get back.

Actually the religious i thing i made reference was to the treat others like you wuld want to be treated which is basically the do unto others thing from the bible. I understand you think it's wrong. BUT I DON'T.

HOW !@#$% DARE YOU EVEN !@#$% INSINUATE THAT MY EDUCATION MEANS ANYTHING IN THIS !@#$%.  I have my own !@#$% opinion.

I DON'T GIVE A !@#$% THE CHICKENS GET TORTURED
I DON'T GIVE A !@#$% THE COWS GET TORTURED.




i only understand anything when it's humor? !@#$% YOU. You only understand your own !@#$% opinion. I understand a lot more then just humor. I actually understand that people have their own opinions. Apparently unlike you, i was never taught the chickens get tortured in school, or the cows. I was taught !@#$% that would actually try to help me on tests. So education means nothing in here.

[Fox]

Fox

Re: :(

Though FISSURE got a bit over the edge, I think that you should probably have a bit more of an open mind. Then again, you don't have to, because it's still your opinion... so I'll leave it.

How do you know that humans are the only animals with a conscience? You're just following something that humans generally assume because we think so highly of ourselves as a species.

No offense, but you can't proof the opposite either, can you... But I agree with your second point. (See my previous post.)

The fact that you eat these products means that you support it. If people don't eat them then there's no market and so the cruelty doesn't exist. An attitude that you can't change anything is why no change is coming about. It's like those adverts on global warming. "What difference can one person..." and it zooms out over a city with everyone saying that. If you're not willing to try to fight against something then what kind of race have we become? Certainly a lesser one than the animals we're torturing.

Then again, why would I want to change it... Ah. Still, I think we can't change anything, even in masses. It's so much politics, it's impossible to change anything. At least in the lawful way.

As for your "b" it's just ridiculous. You've been raised to eat meat, but if you hadn't then the taste would revolt you anyway. Most people in modern times have been raised with bad habits but just saying it's done now and can't be fixed isn't helping. It just means you can't be bothered to start fixing it so that in a few hundred years things can be better. All you care about is yourself which is disgusting.

Sorry, that sort of offended me. It's not disgusting to be selfish. It's just that there're problems that are a !@#$% way more important to me at the moment. Because they happen right before my face. A kitten loosing its skin with full coinscience is sad and pitiful in my opinion but it is not affecting my life right now. Stopping eating meat to wait that billions will join me to stop the torture is a nice idea but I don't have the time for that right now.

That's not selfish. Sorry, no offense, but you got something wrong here.

And I didn't used the f-word because I'm immature. I used it to strength my words.



Edit; btw, shouldn't that be in discussions, now?

• 

[Kleaver]

Kleaver

Re: :(

Fissure, cut the flaming...that goes for all of you anyway. Keep the discussion a little civilized, thank you.

[Fox]

Fox

Re: :(

Of course we can't all have the same opinion, it's only natural to stand for it by any means necessary as long as they don't conflict with the rules. You guys however start insulting absolutely ridicioulus things of each other. And it's actually not needed, even though that's one of only two ways of exits of a discussion.

• 

[Tabby]

Tabby

Re: :(

At least nobody here knows about the Asian fur trade.  I cannot find the video, but in it, a dog is chained to a fence while his fur is starting to be cut off of his back leg.  The dog remains fully conscious until after losing his skin, and the whole time he is chained to a fence, in a freezing winter, all while bleeding profusely.  Then there is the cat fur trade that works the same way.  They have to kill it live so the fur will not be ruined.  They store up to twenty cats in a small cage and fetch then out with a nuice-like device.  Sad really, the cats are surrounded by the hides of the former cats that died.  You would think that these peasants who cruelly maim these cats would at least eat them, but no, instead they through them into a pile in the snow, and like the dogs, some of them are still alive.

o_o ... o_o ....  What the funk :'(!?  This is really still going on??? Shouldn't United Animal Nations be able to
stop these things? 

The point is, inflicting pain on an animal or any form of life is wrong.  To know that what you are hurting is being hurt by you and continuing on is bad.  That does not mean that people all have to go vegetarian or vegan, it just means that they have to seek out products that are cruelty-free, like Sol said. 

Now, if either PETA made a food label that showed products that were cruelty-free, or KFC starts to genetically modify chickens to make them so they cannot feel pain, that is the day I wait for.

Yeah, exactly. There's a huge difference between meat that has been produced with respect, care and of course love <3<3 and meat that has been produced with the opposite way.
I might have overreacted this comparison, but it's almost  the same thing as if a human being would
die naturally (for example oldieness) or killed with a gun... or why not from being tortured.
The first example is more acceptable than the other.

Anyway, I think you made a good point, 4Sword, and both of you Fox and Sol are making good points too,
it's pretty hard to know how many vegetarians we need to make the production of meat less, but then again,
I don't think that will help these animals from being tortured, but the production i'm pretty sure.

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

Fissure, cut the flaming...that goes for all of you anyway. Keep the discussion a little civilized, thank you.

I don't give a !@#$% when he is saying how i only understand humor and !@#$% about my education.

God forbid we have another opinion besides him about a !@#$% chicken.

[Tabby]

Tabby

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

............

yeah, thats not setup just for me to help the chicken .

Depends if i was hungry and thirsty. If it's a hot summers day and i'm really thirsty, there is no way it's getting my water. I'd give it the sandwhich if i wasn't hungry though.

[Tabby]

Tabby

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

............

yeah, thats not setup just for me to help the chicken .

Not at all <_< >_>

Depends if i was hungry and thirsty. If it's a hot summers day and i'm really thirsty, there is no way it's getting my water. I'd give it the sandwhich if i wasn't hungry though.

Well you don't need to give your whole sandwhich and water to it
Just some water and maybe a piece of your bread.

Well, at least you have feelings for them in these situations

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

............

yeah, thats not setup just for me to help the chicken .

Not at all <_< >_>

Depends if i was hungry and thirsty. If it's a hot summers day and i'm really thirsty, there is no way it's getting my water. I'd give it the sandwhich if i wasn't hungry though.

Well you don't need to give your whole sandwhich and water to it
Just some water and maybe a piece of your bread.

Well, at least you have feelings for them in these situations

Sure as long as i don't have to give it all my food.

I don't feel feelings for it though when it's cooked and on my plate

[Tabby]

Tabby

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

............

yeah, thats not setup just for me to help the chicken .

Not at all <_< >_>

Depends if i was hungry and thirsty. If it's a hot summers day and i'm really thirsty, there is no way it's getting my water. I'd give it the sandwhich if i wasn't hungry though.

Well you don't need to give your whole sandwhich and water to it
Just some water and maybe a piece of your bread.

Well, at least you have feelings for them in these situations

Sure as long as i don't have to give it all my food.

I don't feel feelings for it though when it's cooked and on my plate

Cool

Well yeah, otherwise you'd become vegetarian sooner or later... probably

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

FISSURE, just so you know, this is not only about tortured chickens
Just one question FISSURE, if you'd see a small chicken on the street under a tree without water and food
and you knew that you could help the chicken easily, would you do it? By helping I mean... lets say...
give it water and some food Oh, and you have water and a sandwich in your hand... and you look at the bread... <_<

............

yeah, thats not setup just for me to help the chicken .

Not at all <_< >_>

Depends if i was hungry and thirsty. If it's a hot summers day and i'm really thirsty, there is no way it's getting my water. I'd give it the sandwhich if i wasn't hungry though.

Well you don't need to give your whole sandwhich and water to it
Just some water and maybe a piece of your bread.

Well, at least you have feelings for them in these situations

Sure as long as i don't have to give it all my food.

I don't feel feelings for it though when it's cooked and on my plate

Cool

Well yeah, otherwise you'd become vegetarian sooner or later... probably

Yeah, and i definitely don't plan on that happening ever.

[4Sword]

4Sword

Re: :(

Knowing FISSURE, he would probably be eating a chicken sandwich, lol.  I do not think the chicken would quite appreciate its brethren, but any food in a time of hunger will do. 

Oh yeah, I could not find the video (nor would I want to, it is pretty graphic), but I found the transcript of the TV program I saw it on: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/11/lkl.01.html

[FISSURE]

FISSURE

Re: :(

Knowing FISSURE, he would probably be eating a chicken sandwich.  I do not think the chicken would quite appeciate its bretheren, but any food in a time of hunger will do. 

Oh yeah, I could not find the video (nor would I want to, it is pretty graphic), but I found the transcript of the TV program I saw it on: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/11/lkl.01.html

Nah, a turkey sandwhich i would be eating.

[Alex2539]

Alex2539

Re: :(

To be quite frank, I don't care about the chickens. Why should I? They're going to be killed anyways and shoved into my belly via a factory-to-fork-to-mouth process. As far as I know, they're just being tenderized when people throw them around. And, to be fair, it's not like doing all of this stuff to a living chicken is all that bad when you consider the fact that you kill them while they're alive, and they stay alive for a period of time while headless. Right there, they're the living dead (zombies, as it were). Converting to vegetarianism isn't going to change that chickens are dying, so rather than denying myself of the taste of a barbecued chicken wing so that maybe one or two chickens won't be bruised isn't worth it. They're small, inferior, and we breed them like rabbits so they're not going to die out. Maybe in 1'000'000 years they'll grow iron feathers or become poisonous or revert to being dinosaurs or something of the like, we're going to continue killing and eating them, along with other animals. Millions per day. People eat and enjoy meat and no one really cares where it comes from. Especially those who don't want to pay extra for a burger just because the cow was allowed to be happy, or because the nuggets had a good life.

I'm not saying that fighting for those who can't isn't noble, it is, it's just that it's not a battle anyone's going to win anytime soon because people like eating meat.

"They say 'Don't sweat the little things!', but in the end, the little things are all that matter..."
--Alex2539