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Author Topic: Abortions  (Read 19821 times)

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Pyru
Abortions
« on: April 10, 2006, 08:54:24 pm »
So, basically, debate the morality of abortions.

I believe that you can't have a blanket ban on abortions, but there should be a strong time limitation on abortions- before there's any significant neural development in the baby.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2006, 09:08:23 pm »
Well, there's a point that I'd like to throw up in the air to get us started.

In the first term, there is no brain activity coming from the unborn.  In modern society when someone is brain dead, they are officially declared as "dead", because there's nothing to keep them living on their own (they usually get hooked up to a machine if at a hospital during the time of brain death) and so if they are a donar, we will kill them and give their organs to save lives!  So when there's no brain activity coming from the unborn, they are not consciously alive, and are (in a sense) "brain dead" in the sense that they do not yet have those capabilities.

So what I'm wondering is why shouldn't a mother have the right to abort the child in first term?  And I'm sure there are plenty of great things that we could do with the unborn, just like we do with organ donars that are "brain dead".
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Piers
Re: Abortions
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2006, 09:11:53 pm »
I doubt the unborns organs are fulyl developed yet either so how could that really save lives? If you giev them a defetive (lets say liver) then there screwed over.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2006, 09:13:23 pm »
Quote from: Piers on April 10, 2006, 09:11:53 pm
I doubt the unborns organs are fulyl developed yet either so how could that really save lives? If you giev them a defetive (lets say liver) then there screwed over.
I'm reffering to more contraversial subjects such as stem cell research.
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Piers
Re: Abortions
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2006, 09:18:04 pm »
Oh... (adds another check to the Im a loser who dosen't read list). Well maybe then it could save lives.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2006, 09:26:59 pm »
Yeah, the stem cells are very useful. Pregnant women often benefit from the stem cells from their fetuses, through the umbilical cord.

I doubt it's possible to retrieve them from first term abortions, however.

I believe that abortions shouldn't only take place when it's really in the best interest of the mother and/or baby, to cause the least amount of harm to them overall.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2006, 09:28:46 pm »
Quote from: Pyru on April 10, 2006, 09:26:59 pm
I doubt it's possible to retrieve them from first term abortions, however.
And that is what I am trying to find out!  I read somewhere once that it was possible in early second term... <_< >_>

Anyhow, stem cell research isn't the only possibility! :)

EDIT: And just so everyone knows, I'm actually against abortions except in cases where the mother's life is at risk and possible cases of incest and rape.

So I'm just debating for the fun of it (and I have a presentation to make in Sociology, where I need to take the stance of pro-abortion).
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2006, 09:31:26 pm »
What about where the child's life is at risk? Or their quality of life? Or the health of the mother? As in, where it's not life threatening, but could cause injury?
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2006, 09:34:00 pm »
Quote from: Pyru on April 10, 2006, 09:31:26 pm
What about where the child's life is at risk?
"at risk" isn't a term of certainty. ;)

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Or their quality of life?
We all have problems.  That would be a poor excuse for an abortion.

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Or the health of the mother? As in, where it's not life threatening, but could cause injury?
It would depend (a) how early on into her pregnancy this is discovered and (b) how serious it is.
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Piers
Re: Abortions
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2006, 10:10:59 pm »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 10, 2006, 09:34:00 pm
Quote from: Pyru on April 10, 2006, 09:31:26 pm
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Or their quality of life?
We all have problems.  That would be a poor excuse for an abortion.
Well if you live in a carboard box would you really want a child? I certainly wouldn't. If you can't support your self you cetainly can't support yourself and a child and if you don't take the road of abortion you will probaly kill the baby anyway.
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Limey
Re: Abortions
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2006, 10:18:46 pm »
As far as I'm conscerned, I don't think of fetus's as babies until 3rd trimester.  Before then, they are just something developing.  In the 3rd trimester, they're getting ready for their TRUE life to begin, and then Is when I think of them as people, not just organisms.  So I think 1st and 2nd trimester abortions are okay n__n
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2006, 10:34:11 pm »
Quote
Well if you live in a carboard box would you really want a child? I certainly wouldn't. If you can't support your self you cetainly can't support yourself and a child and if you don't take the road of abortion you will probaly kill the baby anyway.
One word: adoption.
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TP
Re: Abortions
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2006, 01:28:00 am »
It's their choice. I am pro-choice.

Possum, could you understand if said person did not want to give birth?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 01:34:48 am by TP »
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2006, 03:48:52 am »
Quote from: TP on April 11, 2006, 01:28:00 am
It's their choice. I am pro-choice.
You're pro-abortion. ;)

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Possum, could you understand if said person did not want to give birth?
If they willingly had sex then... no.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2006, 09:35:16 am »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 03:48:52 am
Quote from: TP on April 11, 2006, 01:28:00 am
It's their choice. I am pro-choice.
You're pro-abortion. ;)

Pro-abortion implies that the person in question wants all pregnancies to be terminated. Not true.

Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 03:48:52 am
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Possum, could you understand if said person did not want to give birth?
If they willingly had sex then... no.

Drunk? On drugs? Simply really down at the time? We all do things we regret.
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Re: Abortions
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 09:58:04 am »
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Yes, I think that as long its in the womans body, its her call. Its still part of her and isnt a real individual yet. Let people decide their own bodies.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 10:33:11 am »
Quote from: Kleaver on April 11, 2006, 09:58:04 am
Yes, I think that as long its in the womans body, its her call. Its still part of her and isnt a real individual yet. Let people decide their own bodies.

You get into iffy legal/moral/ethical territory there. What's the difference between stabbing a baby to death the day before its born and the day after?

And then what about conjoined twins? Does one twin have the right to kill the other 'cos it's "their" body?
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Re: Abortions
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2006, 12:36:55 pm »
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Yep, it does. The parents hold full responsibility over their kids in that case.

Mothers build up an emotional relationship with their kids, do you think they like doing that? No...they don't. But if there is no other way. They should be allowed to without question. The procedure isn't fun as well.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2006, 03:02:46 pm »
Pyru, pro-"choice" is very misleading.  Pro-abortion is not so much.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2006, 04:30:53 pm »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 03:02:46 pm
Pyru, pro-"choice" is very misleading.  Pro-abortion is not so much.

Pro-choice is the best description. To be honest, if you're going into misleading descriptions- pro-life? You want everyone to live, forever? I know for a fact that you are for capital punishment, and war, in some situations.
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