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Author Topic: Abortions  (Read 19820 times)

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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2006, 08:54:54 pm »
Quote from: Pyru on April 11, 2006, 04:30:53 pm
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 03:02:46 pm
Pyru, pro-"choice" is very misleading.  Pro-abortion is not so much.

Pro-choice is the best description.
No, because that makes the opposition "anti-choice".

Quote
To be honest, if you're going into misleading descriptions- pro-life?
Obviously.  That's why I don't say that I'm pro-life, I'm anti-abortion (except in certain circumstances... if someone needs to clarify then let them clarify.  Lazyness is not a valid reason for giving oneself a sloppy title).

This issue is about abortion.  NOT about choice.  NOT about life.  But rather a combination of all the things that make up abortion.

I mean, same thing goes with people when they talk about "gay rights".  I'm for gay rights.  I'm not for gay marriage, so I don't say "I'm anti-gay rights", I say that I'm "anti-gay marriage".

You get the picture.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2006, 09:06:33 pm »
<_< >_>

Marriage is a gay right. Hardly the point.

Anyways, the point is, the argument is that women should have some kind of choice to decide if they're really ready to have children or not. If it's abused by people who just don't want to have kids- so what?
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2006, 09:14:49 pm »
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Marriage is a gay right. Hardly the point.
Not a right.  A civil union is a right, but not a gay marriage.  A marriage is also a right.  Just not a gay marriage.

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Anyways, the point is, the argument is that women should have some kind of choice to decide if they're really ready to have children or not. If it's abused by people who just don't want to have kids- so what?
But what you're doing is changing the debate from abortion to choice.  And this isn't about choice.  It might be "the mother's choice concerning an abortion", but not simply pro-choice.  It's one of the dumbest phrases that I hear on a regular basis.
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Re: Abortions
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2006, 09:20:51 pm »
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Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 09:14:49 pm
Quote
Marriage is a gay right. Hardly the point.
Not a right.  A civil union is a right, but not a gay marriage.  A marriage is also a right.  Just not a gay marriage.
Careful, we already have a topic for this ;)

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Anyways, the point is, the argument is that women should have some kind of choice to decide if they're really ready to have children or not. If it's abused by people who just don't want to have kids- so what?
But what you're doing is changing the debate from abortion to choice.  And this isn't about choice.  It might be "the mother's choice concerning an abortion", but not simply pro-choice.  It's one of the dumbest phrases that I hear on a regular basis.
[/quote]

I think that pro-choice is a valid belief in the scope of this debate. In debates, it is common for the affirmative or the negative to propose a 'solution' to the problem, if they believe that there is one. For example, "I believe that abortions should be allowed under the condition that the abortion is held before the second trimester" can be a valid argument, as long as it is backed up with logic/evidence/reasons, and not just "it makes me feel like I know what's going on." Pro-choice can be an argument for the belief of why abortions should be allowed; I see no reason why it is not a valid argument.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2006, 09:22:02 pm »
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Pro-choice can be an argument for the belief of why abortions should be allowed; I see no reason why it is not a valid argument.
It's the context of it that I take issue with ;)
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Limey
Re: Abortions
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2006, 09:50:34 pm »
I think that "Pro-Women's-choice-for-whether-they-want-an-abortion-or-not" is better than pro-choice ;)

And Pro-life is complete BS, what are the other side, anti-life? XD

Anti-abortion is fine, but pro-abortion makes it sound like people are for ALL abortions... So really there is no good way to classify peoples belifes on the matter XD
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2006, 09:52:53 pm »
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Anti-abortion is fine, but pro-abortion makes it sound like people are for ALL abortions... So really there is no good way to classify peoples belifes on the matter XD
Then they could merely explain. ;)
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2006, 10:10:57 pm »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 09:52:53 pm
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Anti-abortion is fine, but pro-abortion makes it sound like people are for ALL abortions... So really there is no good way to classify peoples belifes on the matter XD
Then they could merely explain. ;)

The point being that the single statement "pro-abortion" is not a good summary of a persons beliefs on the matter. It is both inaccurate and emotively biased as a statement.

Besides, you've said it yourself. You are, to extents, pro-abortion.

I believe everyone has extents for exactly HOW "pro" it they are.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2006, 10:14:33 pm »
Okay, fair enough. :)

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I believe everyone has extents for exactly HOW "pro" it they are.
You'll find extremists on both sides.
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2006, 10:18:29 pm »
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 10:14:33 pm
Okay, fair enough. :)

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I believe everyone has extents for exactly HOW "pro" it they are.
You'll find extremists on both sides.

You'll find very few extremists who abdocate that all pregnancies be terminated. I think those ones can be safely classed as "fruitcakes". :P
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Limey
Re: Abortions
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2006, 10:20:39 pm »
Quote from: Pyru on April 11, 2006, 10:18:29 pm
Quote from: 2awesome4apossum on April 11, 2006, 10:14:33 pm
Okay, fair enough. :)

Quote
I believe everyone has extents for exactly HOW "pro" it they are.
You'll find extremists on both sides.

You'll find very few extremists who abdocate that all pregnancies be terminated. I think those ones can be safely classed as "fruitcakes". :P

I was about to say that XD
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stickman
Re: Abortions
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2006, 04:03:41 pm »
personally i think it is the really the babies body since the main human drive(for normal people) is reprodution so the womans body is really the baby's "ship" or protector so the main obligation of the woman is to the baby not to herself.
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2awesome4apossum
Re: Abortions
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2006, 09:56:51 pm »
Quote from: stickman on April 20, 2006, 04:03:41 pm
personally i think it is the really the babies body since the main human drive(for normal people) is reprodution so the womans body is really the baby's "ship" or protector so the main obligation of the woman is to the baby not to herself.
But the question is, should we enforce that belief?  I don't feel right about it...

...but if so, why?

I mean, I can see where you're coming from, and I agree with you, but I don't think we should enforce it that way.
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Ultimate
Re: Abortions
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2006, 05:43:09 pm »
Women should only be allowed to have abortions if they've been raped or if the pregnacy is life threatening. There is no other excuse.
If the !@#$% cant keep her legs closed with no protection then she can suffer the consequences. Use condoms, it's really not that bloody hard. Thats the message it's loud and clear, everyone can understand it, either use protection or...SHOCK HORROR... dont have sex!
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2006, 06:12:40 pm »
Quote from: Ultimate on May 02, 2006, 05:43:09 pm
Women should only be allowed to have abortions if they've been raped or if the pregnacy is life threatening. There is no other excuse.
If the !@#$% cant keep her legs closed with no protection then she can suffer the consequences. Use condoms, it's really not that bloody hard. Thats the message it's loud and clear, everyone can understand it, either use protection or...SHOCK HORROR... dont have sex!


Protection isn't 100% effective. No form of it is. People DO do things they regret, and they shouldn't have to suffer for it.

An analogy I've used before on this one: IF you were told that a set of stairs would collapse, but you walked up them anyway and broke your leg when it collapsed, would you think it fair if you weren't allowed to have your leg set in a cast because you knew there was a risk?
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YoVoBaller
Re: Abortions
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2006, 06:47:54 pm »
I don't think I can take part in this debate because:
A) I believe Pre-Marital sex is wrong
B) So If someone becomes pregnant by accident well that's your fault and you shouldn't end someone elses life because of your mistake.

I know there are other ways, it could happen such as rape. But I just want to say, that I'm definately agains someone having an abortion, because they accidently got pregnant.


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Re: Abortions
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2006, 06:50:41 pm »
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Quote from: Pyru on May 02, 2006, 06:12:40 pm
Quote from: Ultimate on May 02, 2006, 05:43:09 pm
Women should only be allowed to have abortions if they've been raped or if the pregnacy is life threatening. There is no other excuse.
If the !@#$% cant keep her legs closed with no protection then she can suffer the consequences. Use condoms, it's really not that bloody hard. Thats the message it's loud and clear, everyone can understand it, either use protection or...SHOCK HORROR... dont have sex!


Protection isn't 100% effective. No form of it is. People DO do things they regret, and they shouldn't have to suffer for it.

An analogy I've used before on this one: IF you were told that a set of stairs would collapse, but you walked up them anyway and broke your leg when it collapsed, would you think it fair if you weren't allowed to have your leg set in a cast because you knew there was a risk?

WTF? If you're stupid enough to do it, then yea, suffer. WTF kinda example is that?? XD
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Re: Abortions
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2006, 06:53:17 pm »
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Quote from: YoVoBaller on May 02, 2006, 06:47:54 pm
I don't think I can take part in this debate because:

You just did... XD
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Pyru
Re: Abortions
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2006, 07:42:17 pm »
Quote from: YoVoBaller on May 02, 2006, 06:47:54 pm
I don't think I can take part in this debate because:
A) I believe Pre-Marital sex is wrong
B) So If someone becomes pregnant by accident well that's your fault and you shouldn't end someone elses life because of your mistake.

I know there are other ways, it could happen such as rape. But I just want to say, that I'm definately agains someone having an abortion, because they accidently got pregnant.

What about the quality of life for the kid? It could be terrible growing up like that.

Quote from: Drewdelz on May 02, 2006, 06:50:41 pm
Quote from: Pyru on May 02, 2006, 06:12:40 pm
Quote from: Ultimate on May 02, 2006, 05:43:09 pm
Women should only be allowed to have abortions if they've been raped or if the pregnacy is life threatening. There is no other excuse.
If the !@#$% cant keep her legs closed with no protection then she can suffer the consequences. Use condoms, it's really not that bloody hard. Thats the message it's loud and clear, everyone can understand it, either use protection or...SHOCK HORROR... dont have sex!


Protection isn't 100% effective. No form of it is. People DO do things they regret, and they shouldn't have to suffer for it.

An analogy I've used before on this one: IF you were told that a set of stairs would collapse, but you walked up them anyway and broke your leg when it collapsed, would you think it fair if you weren't allowed to have your leg set in a cast because you knew there was a risk?

WTF? If you're stupid enough to do it, then yea, suffer. WTF kinda example is that?? XD

The point being, even if it's your own fault, you still get treatment for it.
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YoVoBaller
Re: Abortions
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2006, 07:50:01 pm »
Quote from: Pyru on May 02, 2006, 07:42:17 pm
What about the quality of life for the kid? It could be terrible growing up like that.

Well you should know what kind of life a kid would have before you have sex. So you did it anyway, and ended up pregnant. Not his fault. Yours. I don't think you have the right to kill the baby, because you think his quality of life is will be bad. I've lived in Africa for 4 years. I believe that a having a life here, is better than most places. Will it be hard? Shyeah. But CAN he live a good, and fruitful life? Yes. But what I'm trying to say... If the quality of life for the kid will be bad. DON'T HAVE SEX.
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